Soul Sleep is satanic heresy.

yogosans14

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destruction,[bless and do not curse]not an annihilation, and cessation of being, but of all well-being: and elsewhere called[bless and do not curse]death,[bless and do not curse]Romans 6:23, and[bless and do not curse]the second death,[bless and do not curse]Revelation 20:6, which imports also not all ceasing of life, but all comfort of life. And it is not the body alone, nor the soul alone, but their persons,[bless and do not curse]
 
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martymonster

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Many people have fallen into this doctrine thinking even if they reject Christ it won't matter because they will just be unconscious forever. The early church never taught such a thing. The early church fathers all believed in a eternal Hell where the which go and the eternal play of God where the righteous soul goes at death.

Why is this doctrine so strong today? Its very strong in liberal churches and the cults. Paul said were a tri part being made up of Body SOUL AND SPIRIT. The story of the rich man and lazarus is not a parable about the after life just to confuse us when Jesus really meant soul sleep. Satan loves this doctrine, he is leading millions to Hell because people think the Bible never teaches a place.


Ecc 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
 
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yogosans14

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Ecc 9:5
For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
Ecclesiastes must be understood in the context of its own commentary, which says at the opening of the book, "The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem. 2 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “Vanity of vanities! All is vanity.” 3 What advantage does man have in all his work which he does under the sun?" (Eccl. 1:1-3).[bless and do not curse] The writer is telling us how things are from the human perspective, from "under the sun."[bless and do not curse] He is not telling us doctrinal statements about whether or not the soul continues after death.[bless and do not curse] Besides, it's a mistake to use the Old Testament to interpret the New Testament.[bless and do not curse] It is the New Testament that sheds light on the Old Testament.

In the New Testament we see Paul say in[bless and do not curse]2 Cor. 5:8, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord."[bless and do not curse] Paul is clearly telling us that when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord.[bless and do not curse] Furthermore, at the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive.[bless and do not curse] There was no soul sleep with them.
 
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martymonster

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1Co 15:16 For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:
1Co 15:17 And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins.
1Co 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.
1Co 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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Ecclesiastes must be understood in the context of its own commentary ...
I agree, therefore read the whole of it in its context, both locally [Chapter Verses] and globally [bible], not merely a portion of it.

Solomon, is saying that all of our life would be vanity in the face of death, because of our guilt before God, because of our sin [transgression of God's Holy Law], but as he continues, he says that all is not vanity and "to be admonished" [why so, if all is supposedly "vanity", useless?], because of the Redeemer, the Judgment and the Resurrection [see Ecclesiastes 12:13-14].

Without the Redeemer, Judgment and Resurrection of the Just[ified] in Christ Jesus, mankind would truly be hopeless, yet because Solomon knew of those things, he preached wise words, to "Remember the Creator" [a pointing to the 4th Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11; the 7th Day Sabbath of the LORD], especially in youth, as one who would have to give account of the deeds, etc done. Solomon speaks of the truth of death in the midst of these things. That Solomons speaks of the truth of death in the midst of what appears to be all "vanity" does not negate the truth on the state of the dead, but instead makes these words even more solid upon the Rock:
The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth. Ecclesiastes 12:10

[Ecc 9:5-6, 10 KJV] 5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any [thing] that is done under the sun. ... 10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do [it] with thy might; for [there is] no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
It was by these words and others of Solomon that his "son" was to be "admonished" [Ecclesiastes 12:12].

Therefore:
[Ecc 12:13-14 KJV] 13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this [is] the whole [duty] of man. 14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether [it be] good, or whether [it be] evil.
If all was truly "vanity" [which is not Solomon's point at all], then why bother to "Fear God...", "keep his commandments", etc?
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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...In the New Testament we see Paul say in[bless and do not curse]2 Cor. 5:8, "we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." Paul is clearly telling us that when he dies, he will go and be with the Lord....
The Claim is oft made that Paul stated that to be "absent from the body" means to automatically and instantly be "present with the Lord", but is that really so? Let us see:
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8
Many people simply miss the point of Paul in that verse, and generally misquote it, either in practice [by actually substituting a word] or in their heads or force of meaning [implication], and forget what he says elsewhere. Let's consider what Paul does say:

[1] Firstly, the text does not read [as many ofter innocently misquote, either verbally or recite in their head]:
"We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body [IS] to be present with the Lord." 2 Corinthians 5:8
The actual word inbetween "absent from the body" and "to be present with the Lord" is the Greek word "kai" [and] and not "is" as many would [perhaps innocently/ignorantly] imply it to mean. For we see clearly this:
We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:8
"2Co 5:8 θαρρουμενG2292 V-PAI-1P δεG1161 CONJ καιG2532 CONJ ευδοκουμενG2106 V-PAI-1P μαλλονG3123 ADV εκδημησαιG1553 V-AAN εκG1537 PREP τουG3588 T-GSN σωματοςG4983 N-GSN καιG2532 CONJ ενδημησαιG1736 V-AAN προςG4314 PREP τονG3588 T-ASM κυριονG2962 N-ASM"

The substitution of the “and” with “is” is entirely too common these days. If the passage did read “is”, it would indicate immediateness, an equals as it were, which would go like this:

To be “absent from the body” IS [=] “to be present with the Lord”, like unto the mathematical equation 2+2 [IS [=]] 4. Yet that is not what we read at all. What we do read is two individual events separated by "and", in this case, time as we shall see. The little Greek word “kai” [and] means all the difference here. Since it reads 2 [[and] +] 2 = 4.

This word becomes extremely important then. For if I had said, "I am going to the Store and will purchase some food.", does not make the purchasing of the food instantaneous, iow at the moment of entering the Store. In fact, the immediate context does not declare how long I will be at the Store before I purchase food. The two events, "going to the Store" and the "purchas[ing] of the food", being separated by "and", usually indicate individual events separated by time. The only way to determine the amount of "time" of the "and" between the two events, I would have to have further context. Which Paul gives us in 1 Thessalonians 4:17.

Therefore, there is much in that little word "and", from Paul, since he is clear that the passage of time in this world still passes, but the dead know it not, and shall awake in the resurrection, and it is
"then" that those which died in the Lord shall “be present with the Lord”, as it is said it is “then”, that we "shall ever be with the Lord"... that is, they were not "with" Him [the Lord, Jesus] before, except by hope while we yet lived, even "earnestly desiring" it [2 Corinthians 5:2] and "faith" [2 Corinthians 5:7] in that resurrection...

"Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." 1 Thessalonians 4:17
If we had “immortal souls” that never die, what then is “swallowed up of life”? Nothing. Yet, Paul uses a time word, "then", and when did Paul say this was to be? Notice that Paul in his previous letter to the Corinthians designates the time of the change and reward, which is at "the Last Trunp".

Scripture says that we are
"caught up together" [1 Thessalonians 4:17], and that Jesus would come back for us all at once [John 14:1-4]. Not individually as we die, fall into the sleep of death and are so buried in the grave, remaining in the tomb, in the dust of the earth.


Paul knew the Scriptures, even as others:
Thy dead men shall live,together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Isaiah 26:19

Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. Psalms 50:3

He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Psalms 50:4

Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. Psalms 50:5
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. John 5:25

Marvel not at this: for
the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, John 5:28
Paul clearly says:
"Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing." 2 Timothy 4:8
That word “appearing” is the 2nd Advent of Jesus Christ.
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:23
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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...2 Cor. 5:8...
Continued:

[2] Notice also another very key to this text, which is in 2 Corinthians 5:5,7, speaking about "faith", and “earnest[ness]” that is waiting for the reality of the Resurrection, not of actual "sight" or of obtaining immediately upon one's death.
Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 2 Corinthians 5:5

(For we walk by faith, not by sight) 2 Corinthians 5:7
Paul knew that he would not enter into Heaven, until his resurrection, which would not happen in his own day of dying, but in the Day of the LORD,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind... as that the day of Christ is at hand. 2 Thessalonians 2:2;p

Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 2 Thessalonians 2:3

And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2 Thessalonians 2:8
Peter says the same in all his Epistles, which we may yet come to later.
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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...2 Cor. 5:8...
Continued:

[3] Paul will not contradict himself, and also in the light of:
“...the scripture cannot be broken.” John 10:35;p
For Paul knew the Scriptures:
His breath goeth forth, hereturneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4

For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. Ecclesiastes 9:5

Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Ecclesiastes 9:6

Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there isno work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. Ecclesiastes 9:10

His sons come to honour, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them. Job 14:21

If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath; Job 34:14

All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust. Job 34:15

They shall go down to the bars of the pit, when ourrest together is in the dust. Job 17:16

One dieth in his full strength, being wholly at ease and quiet. Job 21:23

And another dieth in the bitterness of his soul, and never eateth with pleasure. Job 21:25

They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them. Job 21:26

For ye say, Where is the house of the prince? and where are the dwelling places of the wicked? Job 21:28

That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath. Job 21:30

Yet shall he be brought to the grave, and shall remain in the tomb. Job 21:32

The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence. Psalms 115:17
Consider what Paul has stated just before our texts, in that he was not desirous to be without clothing for long, “naked”, but looked forward to the time of the new immortal clothing, being “clothed upon” [immortality], which he did not yet actually possess, but would have at the Resurrection. Paul constantly spoke about this:
Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because he preached unto themJesus, and the resurrection. Acts 17:18
Notice that he did not preach unto them, Platonic Dualism or of the Greek philosophy [Plato, Aristotle, Socrates], which he already knew of and superstitions of entering into Heaven/Hell, as an ethereal ghastial immortal non-entity, as the Greek and Roman 'religions' taught [and still do today].

They already taught that, being the
“wisdom of this world”.
"...is the doctrine of spirituality. ... Dualism ... Plato ... Platonic Dualism ... " [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "S", "Soul"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Soul

"... For positive evidence, however, that the soul will continue after death in the possession of a conscious life, we must appeal to teleologyand the consideration of the character of the universe as a whole. ..." [Roman Catholic Online Encyclopedia; "I"; "Immortality"] - CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Immortality
Yet Paul preached the Resurrection:
But when Paul perceived that the one part were Sadducees, and the other Pharisees, he cried out in the council, Men and brethren, I am a Pharisee, the son of a Pharisee: of the hope and resurrection of the deadI am called in question. Acts 23:6

And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. Acts 24:15

Except it be for this one voice, that I cried standing among them, Touching the resurrection of the deadI am called in question by you this day. Acts 24:21

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: Romans 6:5

Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? 1 Corinthians 15:12

But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen: 1 Corinthians 15:13

For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 1 Corinthians 15:21

So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 1 Corinthians 15:42

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; Philippians 3:10

If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Philippians 3:11

Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Hebrews 6:2

Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: Hebrews 11:35
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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...2 Cor. 5:8...
Continued:

This further confirmed:

Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho:
"... Moreover, I pointed out to you that some who are called Christians, but are godless, impious heretics, teach doctrines that are in every way blasphemous, atheistical, and foolish. But that you may know that I do not say this before you alone, I shall draw up a statement, so far as I can, of all the arguments which have passed between us; in which I shall record myself as admitting the very same things which I admit to you.2260 For I choose to follow not men or men’s doctrines, but God and the doctrines [delivered] by Him. For if you have fallen in with some who are called Christians, but who do not admit this [truth],2261 and venture to blaspheme the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob; who say there is no resurrection of the dead, and that their souls, when they die, are taken to heaven; do not imagine that they are Christians, even as one, if he would rightly consider it, would not admit that the Sadducees, or similar sects of Genistæ, Meristæ,2262 Galilæans, Hellenists,2263 Pharisees, Baptists, are Jews (do not hear me impatiently when I tell you what I think), but are [only] called Jews and children of Abraham, worshipping God with the lips, as God Himself declared, but the heart was far from Him. ...

2261i.e., resurrection. ..." [Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, chapter LXXX [80]] - http://www.ccel.org/...ii.iv.lxxx.html

Additionally, both William Tyndale, John Frith, George Wishart, John Milton, Baptists, among others and Martin Luther all taught from Scripture that the dead are asleep, knowing nothing:
[Wikipedia; "Annihilationism"] - Annihilationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Wikipedia; "Conditional Immortality"] - Christian conditionalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Wikipedia; "Soul Death"] - Christian mortalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Wikipedia; "Christian Mortalism"] - Christian mortalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
“William Tyndale (1484-1536),

English Bible translator and Martyr
In 1530 responding to Sir Thomas More's objection to his belief that "all souls lie and sleep till doomsday" he vigorously replyed.
"And ye, in putting them [the departed souls] in heaven, hell and purgatory, destroy the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul prove the resurection...And again, if the souls be in heaven, tell me why they be not in as good a case as the angels be ? And then what cause is there of the resurrection ?" - William Tyndale, An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue (Parker's 1850 reprint), bk.4, ch.4, pp.180,181 - An Answer to Sir Thomas More's Dialogue: The Supper of the Lord After the ... - William Tyndale - Google Books
Tyndale went to the heart of the issue in pointing out the papacy's draft upon the teachings of "heathen philosophers" in seeking to establish its contention of innante immortality. Thus
"The true faith puteth forth the resurrection, which we be warned to look for every hour. The heathen philosophers, denying that, did put that the souls did ever live. And the pope joineth the spiritual doctrine of Christ and the fleshy doctrine of philosophers together; things so contrary that they cannot agree, no more than the Spirit and the flesh do in a Christian man. And becuase the fleshy-minded pope consenteth unto heathen doctrine, therefore he corrupteth the Scripture to stablish it. If the soul be in heaven, tell me what cause is there for the resurrection?" - ibid., p.180
In yet another section of the same treatise, dealing with the "invocation of saints," Tyndale uses the same reasoning, pointing out that the doctrine of departed saints being in heaven had not yet been introduced in Christ's day:
"And when he [More] proveth that the saints be in heaven in glory with Christ already, saying, 'If God be their God, they be in heaven, for he is not the God of the dead;' there he stealeth away Christ's argument wherewith he proveth the resurrection: that Abraham and all saints would rise again, and not that their souls were in heaven; which doctrine was not yet in the world. And with that doctrine he taketh away the resurrection quite, and maketh Christ's argument of none effect." - ibid., p.118
Tyndale presses his contention still further by showing the conflict of papal teaching with St. Paul, as he says is slightly sarcastic vein :
" 'Nay Paul, thou art unlearned; go to Master More, and learn a new way. We be not most miserable, though we rise not again; for our souls go to heaven as soon as we be dead, and are there in as great joy as Christ that is risen again.' And I marvel that Paul had not conforted the Thessalonians with that doctrine, if he had wist it, that the souls of their dead had been in joy; as he did with the resurrection, that their dead should rise again. If the souls be in heaven, in as great glory as the angels, after your doctrine, shew me what should be of the resurrection?" - ibid. p.118
John Frith (1503-33),

associate of Tyndale and fellow martyr writes
"Notwithstanding, let me grant it him that some are already in hell and some in heaven, which thing he shall never be able to prove by the Scriptures, yea, and which plainly destroy the resurrection, and taketh away the arguments wherewith Christ and Paul do prove that we shall rise;..and as touching this point where they rest, I dare be bold to say that they are in the hand of God." - An Answer to John Fisher, Bishop of Rochester
Martin Luther (1493-1546)
German reformer and Bible Translator.
Regarding Luther's position Archdeacon Francis Blackburne of Cleveland; rector of Richmond states in his "Short Historical View of the Controversy Concerning an Intermediate State" of 1765 :
"Luther espoused the doctrine of the sleep of the soul, upon a Scripture foundation, and then made use of it as a confutation of purgatory and saint worship, and continued in that belief to the last moment in his life." page 14.
Martin Luther declared that it was the Pope, not the bible, who taught that "the soul is immortal" Martin Luther, Defence, proposition 27
"Luther held that the soul died with the body, and that God would hereafter raise both the one and the other." Catholic Cardinal Du Perron, Historical View, p344
Here are some sample Luther citations. The first one is from a 1573 translation.
"Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awaked, they shall seeme to haue slept scarce one minute." - An Exposition of Salomon's Booke, called Ecclesiastes or the Preacher, 1573, folio 151v.
"But we Christians, who have been redeemed from all this through the precious blood of God's Son, should train and accustom ourselves in faith to despise death and regard it as a deep, strong sweet sleep; to consider the coffin as nothing other than our Lord Jesus' bosom or Paradise, the grave as nothing other than a soft couch of ease or rest. As verily, before God, it truely is just this; for he testifies, John 11:11: Lazarus, our friend sleeps; Matthew 9:24: The maiden is not dead, she sleeps. Thus too, St. Paul in 1 Corinthians 15, removes from sight all hateful aspects of death as related to our mortal body and brings forward nothing but charming and joyful aspects of the promised life. He says there [vv.42ff]: It is sown in corruption and will rise in incorruption; it is sown in dishonour (that is, a hateful, shameful form) and will rise in glory; it is sown in weakness and will rise in strength; it is sown in natural body and will rise a spiritual body."- Christian Song Latin and German, for Use at Funerals," 1542, Works of Luther (1932), vol. 6, pp.287,288
"Thus after death the soul goes to its bedchamber and to its peace, and while it is sleeping it does not realise its sleep, and God preserves indeed the awakening soul. God is able to awake Elijah, Moses, and others, and so control them, so that they will live. But how can that be ? That we do not know; we satisfy ourselves with the example of bodily sleep, and with what God says: it is a sleep, as rest, and a peace. He who sleeps naturally knows nothing of that which happens in his neighbor's house; and nevertheless he still is living, even though, contrary to the nature of life, he is unconscious in his sleep. Exactly the same will happen also in that life, but in another and a better way." -"Auslegung des ersten Buches Mose," in Schriften, vol.1, cols. 1759, 1760
George Wishart (1500-1546),

Greek scholar, friend of Latimer, tutor of John Knox, and martyr.

Wishart was charged with attacking auricular confession, transubstatiation, extreme unction, holy water, invocation of saints and purgatory. Charge "XVI" was for promulgating the doctrine of the sleep of the soul.
Charge "XVI": Thou false heretic has preached openly saying, that the soul of man shall sleep to the latter day of judgment and shall not obtain life immortal until that day." Blackburne, "Historical View", p.21.
General Baptists
In his "Institutes of Ecclesiastical History" chancellor of the University of Gottingen, Johann L. von Mosheim records that the "General Baptists" where spread in large numbers over many of the provinces of England As one article of faith they held "that the soul, between death and the resurrection at the last day, has neither pleasure nor pain, but is in a state of insensibility." - [see Page 697] Mosheim's Institutes of Ecclesiastical History, Ancient and Modern - Johann Lorenz Mosheim - Google Books
Samuel Richardson (1633-1658)

Pastor, First Particular Baptist Church, of London wrote a discourse entitled :

"A Discourse on the Torments of Hell : The Foundations and Pillars therof discover'd, serch'd, shaken, and remov'd. With Infallible Proofs that there is not to be a punishment after this Life, for any to endure that shall never end" 1658 [see also Page 70 herem right hand top Column] - A Baptist Bibliography - William Thomas Whitley - Google Books

John Milton (1608-1674),

"Greatest of the Sacred Poets"; Latin secretary to Cromwell.
"Inasmuch then as the whole man is uniformly said to consist of body, and soul (whatever may be the distinct provinces assigned to these divisions), I will show, that in death, first, the whole man, and secondly, each component part, suffers privation of life...The grave is the common guardian of all till the day of judgment.", "Treatise of Christian Doctine" Vol.1, ch. 13, [see Page 271 here] - The Prose Works of John Milton ...: With a Preface, Preliminary Remarks, and ... - John Milton, James Augustus St. John - Google Books
And many, many more...
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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...2 Cor. 5:8...
Continued:

Dr A.A. Phelps, pastor Congregational Church, Rochester, New York, and editor of "The Bible Banner", in discussing "Is Man By Nature Immortal?" (pp.639-650), presents twelve counts against the doctrine of innate immortality:

  1. It has a bad history; it was introduced by the serpent in Eden, and springs from a heathen philosophy; it is not found in Jewish belief; is a compromise with Platonism; adopted and authenticated by the Church of Rome.
  2. It is at variance with the scriptural account of man's creation.
  3. It clashes with the Bible statement of man's fall.
  4. It is opposed to the scriptural doctrine of death.
  5. It is equally opposed to the physiological facts.
  6. Immortality is nowhere ascribed to man in his present state of existance.
  7. Immortality is a blessing to be sought, and not a birthright legacy.
  8. Inherent immortality is opposed to the scriptural doom of the wicked.
  9. It supersedes the necessity of the resurrection.
  10. It reduces the judgment scene to a solemn farce.
  11. It subverts the bible doctrine of Christ's second coming.
  12. It is a prolific source of error -Mohammedanism, Shakerism, Swedenborgianism, Spiritualism, Purgatory, Mariolatry, Universalism, Eternal-Tormentism.” - Heresy
Martin Luther [once more]:
"...Protestants denied the Catholic purgatory. Luther taught mortality of the soul, comparing the sleep of a tired man after a day's work whose soul "sleeps not but is awake" ("non sic dormit, sed vigilat") and can "experience visions and the discourses of the angels and of God", with the sleep of the dead which experience nothing but still "live to God" ("coram Deo vivit").[4][5][6][7] ..."

"..."so the soul after death enters its chamber and peace, and sleeping does not feel its sleep" (Commentary on Genesis – Enarrationes in Genesin, 1535–1545).[36]

... However, the best known advocate of soul sleep was Martin Luther (1483–1546).[95] In writing on Ecclesiastes, Luther says, “Salomon judgeth that the dead are a sleepe, and feele nothing at all. For the dead lye there accompting neyther dayes nor yeares, but when they are awoken, they shall seeme to have slept scarce one minute.[96]” - Intermediate state - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Elsewhere Luther states that:
“As soon as thy eyes have closed shalt thou be woken, a thousand years shall be as if thou hadst slept but a little half hour. Just as at night we hear the clock strike and know not how long we have slept, so too, and how much more, are in death a thousand years soon past. Before a man should turn round, he is already a fair angel.[97]" - Christian mortalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This current house [mortal] and that one to come at the resurrection [immortal, swallowing up death with eternal life], and there is no house [except the grave; Job 4:19, Job 17:13; Isaiah 26:19; Nahum 3:19; etc] inbetween, only death [unclothed], asleep, awaiting the resurrection.
For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven: 2 Corinthians 5:2

If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 2 Corinthians 5:3

For we that are in [this] tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. 2 Corinthians 5:4
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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...2 Cor. 5:8...
Continued:

When did Paul himself expect that to be? At "that day", being "the last day", even at "the last trump", at the very "appearing" [this word is used of Christ's Second Advent/Coming] of the Lord Jesus Christ in the clouds of Glory, coming in Power and Glory:
For what [is] our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? [Are] not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? 1 Thessalonians 2:9

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. 2 Timothy 4:8
And again,
Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 1 Corinthians 15:51
When?
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 1 Corinthians 15:52

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 1 Thessalonians 4:16

But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:23
Paul knew what even Job stated:
And [though] after my skin [worms] destroy this [body], yet in my flesh shall I see God. Job 19:26

Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold... Job 19:27;p
For notice the question that Job asks:
For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease. Job 14:7

Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground; Job 14:8

[Yet] through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant. Job 14:9

But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where [is] he? Job 14:10
Well when "man dieth... where [is] he?"

And how does he answer?:

[As] the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up: Job 14:11
So too, we "fail" and "decayeth" and "drieth up" and are returned unto "dust"...
So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens [be] no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. Job 14:12

...hide me in the grave, ... keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, ... appoint me a set time, and remember me! Job 14:13;p [The Wrath of God is the 7 Last Plagues]

If a man die, shall he live [again]? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. Job 14:14

Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee... Job 14:15;p
Job knew he would die, return unto dust, and 'wait' in the grave, in death, unconscious, knowing nothing, until Jesus called him forth in the resurrection "at the last day" when the "trump of God" shall sound, and then he would answer that call to immortal life.

[4] Let us see a similar passage in Romans 8, in which Paul explains that we are "waiting" for our freedom from the "bondage of corruption" [our current mortal body], when we "at the last trump" shall be "clothed" with that immortal one, the only 'inbetween' would to be the grave, which is death, asleep, without consciousness, in the grave, awaiting as Job would be and still is, etc:
Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. Romans 8:21

For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. Romans 8:22

And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body. Romans 8:23
[5] In Genesis 2:7:
And the LORD God formed man ofthe dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrilsthe breath of life; and man became a living soul. Genesis 2:7
We see how mankind was created a “living soul”, by being made of two things, which combined, made a third whole [“dust of the earth” [lifeless] + “breath of life of God” breathed into “the nostrils” = “living soul”, the whole living being], and understanding that, helps us all to further understand what happen in [1st] death.
In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Genesis 3:19

Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. Psalms 104:29

Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it. Ecclesiastes 12:7

His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. Psalms 146:4
The only reason there is even these deaths [plural] at all, instead of instant destruction to man, is because of Christ Jesus, the promise of His life and sacrifice, our surety from the very beginning:
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:8
Paul knew this, why then don't most Christians? Because the doctrine of the 'immortal soul/spirit' is one of the two main pillars of the doctrines of the devil, for it allows him access to almost anyone on earth through various means of deception. That is why God forbids spiritism.
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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... Furthermore, at the Transfiguration of Jesus (Matt. 17:1-8) we see Moses and Elijah who were alive. There was no soul sleep with them.
The short version:

Moses "sle[pt]" [Deuteronomy 31:16] and was resurrected by Jesus [Jude 1:9; 1 Samuel 2:6; Romans 5:14, John 11:25, etc], taken to Heaven and later appeared in "glory" with the translated Elijah [which never saw death], also who appeared in "glory" with the Resurrected Moses. Both are fully alive, and not dead. They represent the two Great Classes [not only of the Law and the Prophets], but also of those who will be alive at the end, receiving translation, and those who had died in the faith to be resurrected and all taken back to Heaven with Jesus - Peter mentions this in his Epistle.

I also have the Long version prepared, for those which need to see those texts.
 
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Lion King

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Your right. The early church Must have gotten it wrong until you came on the scene.

The church has always taught that the wicked will be annihilated at the great day of judgement. This message has been consistent in all the writings of the prophets and apostles.
 
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Lion King

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destruction,[bless and do not curse]not an annihilation, and cessation of being, but of all well-being: and elsewhere called[bless and do not curse]death,[bless and do not curse]Romans 6:23, and[bless and do not curse]the second death,[bless and do not curse]Revelation 20:6, which imports also not all ceasing of life, but all comfort of life. And it is not the body alone, nor the soul alone, but their persons,[bless and do not curse]

Annihilation is an synonym for destruction.

annihilation
ənʌɪɪˈleɪʃ(ə)n/Submit
noun
noun: annihilation
1.
complete destruction or obliteration.
"the threat of global annihilation"
total defeat.
"a show of independence is its only hope of avoiding annihilation in next year's elections"
 
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yogosans14

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The church has always taught that the wicked will be annihilated at the great day of judgement. This message has been consistent in all the writings of the prophets and apostles.
150 AD Second Clement "If we do the will of Christ, we shall obtain rest; but if not, if we neglect his commandments, nothing will rescue us from eternal punishment" (Second Clement 5:5).150 AD Second Clement "But when they see how those who have sinned and who have denied Jesus by their words or by their deeds are punished with terrible torture in unquenchable fire, the righteous, who have done good, and who have endured tortures and have hated the luxuries of life, will give glory to their God saying, 'There shall be hope for him that has served God with all his heart!'" (Second Clement , 17:7).150 AD Justin Martyr: "No more is it possible for the evildoer, the avaricious, and the treacherous to hide from God than it is for the virtuous. Every man will receive the eternal punishment or reward which his actions deserve. Indeed, if all men recognized this, no one would choose evil even for a short time, knowing that he would incur the eternal sentence of fire. On the contrary, he would take every means to control himself and to adorn himself in virtue, so that he might obtain the good gifts of God and escape the punishments" (First Apology 12).150 AD Justin Martyr: "We have been taught that only they may aim at immortality who have lived a holy and virtuous life near to God. We believe that they who live wickedly and do not repent will be punished in everlasting fire" (First Apology, 21).150 AD Justin Martyr: "[Jesus] shall come from the heavens in glory with his angelic host, when he shall raise the bodies of all the men who ever lived. Then he will clothe the worthy in immortality; but the wicked, clothed in eternal sensibility, he will commit to the eternal fire, along with the evil demons" (First Apology, 52).

150 AD Justin Martyr: and we say that the same thing will be done, but at the hand of Christ, and upon the wicked in the same bodies united again to their spirits which are now to undergo everlasting punishment; and not only, as Plato said, for a period of a thousand years. And if any one say that this is incredible or impossible, this error of ours is one which concerns ourselves only, and no other person, so long as you cannot convict us of doing any harm. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. VIII)

150 AD Justin Martyr: And hell is a place where those are to be punished who have lived wickedly, and who do not believe that those things which God has taught us by Christ will come to pass. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XIX)

150 AD Justin Martyr: while we affirm that the souls of the wicked, being endowed with sensation even after death, are punished, and that those of the good being delivered from punishment spend a blessed existence, we shall seem to say the same things as the poets and philosophers. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XX)

150 AD Justin Martyr: For among us the prince of the wicked spirits is called the serpent, and Satan, and the devil, as you can learn by looking into our writings. And that he would be sent into the fire with his host, and the men who follow him, and would be punished for an endless duration, Christ foretold. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. XXVIII)

150 AD Justin Martyr: Nor can the devils persuade men that there will be no conflagration for the punishment of the wicked; as they were unable to effect that Christ should be hidden after He came. But if they believe that there is nothing after death, but declare that those who die pass into insensibility, then they become our benefactors when they set us free from sufferings and necessities of this life, and prove themselves to be wicked, and inhuman, and bigoted. For they kill us with no intention of delivering us, but cut us off that we may be deprived of life and pleasure. (The First Apology of Justin, Chap. LVII)

150 AD Justin Martyr: the unjust and intemperate shall be punished in eternal fire. (The Second Apology of Justin For The Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. I)

150 AD Justin Martyr: assuring him that there shall be punishment in eternal fire inflicted upon those who do not live temperately and conformably to right reason. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate. Chap. II)

150 AD Justin Martyr: And they, having been shut up in eternal fire, shall suffer their just punishment and penalty. For if they are even now overthrown by men through the name of Jesus Christ, this is an intimation of the punishment in eternal fire which is to be inflicted on themselves and those who serve them. For thus did both all the prophets foretell, and our own teacher Jesus teach. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. VIII)

150 AD Justin Martyr: And that no one may say what is said by those who are deemed philosophers, that our assertions that the wicked are punished in eternal fire are big words and bugbears, and that we wish men to live virtuously through fear, and not because such a life is good and pleasant; I will briefly reply to this, that if this be not so, God does not exist; or, if He exists, He cares not for men, and neither virtue nor vice is anything, and as we said before, lawgivers unjustly punish those who transgress good commandments. (The Second Apology of Justin for the Christians Addressed to the Roman Senate, Chap. IX)

150 AD Justin Martyr: "Trypho," says he, "I am called; and I am a Hebrew of the circumcision,.They affirm that the same things shall always happen; and, further, that I and you shall again live in like manner, having become neither better men nor worse. But there are some others, who, having supposed the soul to be immortal and immaterial, believe that though they have committed evil they will not suffer punishment (for that which is immaterial is insensible), and that the soul, in consequence of its immortality, needs nothing from God." (Dialogue of Justin, Philosopher and Martyr, with Trypho, A Jew, Chap. I)
 
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yogosans14

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177 AD Athenagoras "[W]e [Christians] are persuaded that when we are removed from this present life we shall live another life, better than the present one . . . Then we shall abide near God and with God, changeless and free from suffering in the soul . . . or if we fall with the rest [of mankind], a worse one and in fire; for God has not made us as sheep or beasts of burden, a mere incidental work, that we should perish and be annihilated" (Plea for the Christians 31).181 AD Theophilus of Antioch "Give studious attention to the prophetic writings [the Bible] and they will lead you on a clearer path to escape the eternal punishments and to obtain the eternal good things of God.. [God] will examine everything and will judge justly, granting recompense to each according to merit. To those who seek immortality by the patient exercise of good works, he will give everlasting life, joy, peace, rest, and all good things.. For the unbelievers and for the contemptuous, and for those who do not submit to the truth but assent to iniquity, when they have been involved in adulteries, and fornications, and homosexualities, and avarice, and in lawless idolatries, there will be wrath and indignation, tribulation and anguish; and in the end, such men as these will be detained in everlasting fire" (To Autolycus 1:14).189 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "[God will] send the spiritual forces of wickedness, and the angels who transgressed and became apostates, and the impious, unjust, lawless, and blasphemous among men into everlasting fire" (Against Heresies 1:10:1).189 AD Irenaeus of Lyons "The penalty increases for those who do not believe the Word of God and despise his coming ... t is not merely temporal, but eternal. To whomsoever the Lord shall say, 'Depart from me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire,' they will be damned forever" (Against Heresies, 4:28:2).197 AD Tertullian "After the present age is ended he will judge his worshipers for a reward of eternal life and the godless for a fire equally perpetual and unending" (Apology 18:3).197 AD Tertullian "Then will the entire race of men be restored to receive its just deserts according to what it has merited in this period of good and evil, and thereafter to have these paid out in an immeasurable and unending eternity. Then there will be neither death again nor resurrection again, but we shall be always the same as we are now, without changing. The worshippers of God shall always be with God, clothed in the proper substance of eternity. But the godless and those who have not turned wholly to God will be punished in fire equally unending, and they shall have from the very nature of this fire, divine as it were, a supply of incorruptibility" (Apology , 44:12-13).212 AD Hippolytus "Standing before [Christ's] judgment, all of them, men, angels, and demons, crying out in one voice, shall say: 'Just if your judgment!' And the righteousness of that cry will be apparent in the recompense made to each. To those who have done well, everlasting enjoyment shall be given; while to the lovers of evil shall be given eternal punishment. The unquenchable and unending fire awaits these latter, and a certain fiery worm which does not die and which does not waste the body but continually bursts forth from the body with unceasing pain. No sleep will give them rest; no night will soothe them; no death will deliver them from punishment; no appeal of interceding friends will profit them" (Against the Greeks 3).226 AD Minucius Felix "I am not ignorant of the fact that many, in the consciousness of what they deserve, would rather hope than actually believe that there is nothing for them after death. They would prefer to be annihilated rather than be restored for punishment. . . . Nor is there either measure nor end to these torments. That clever fire burns the limbs and restores them, wears them away and yet sustains them, just as fiery thunderbolts strike bodies but do not consume them" (Octavius 34:12-5:3).250 AD Ignatius of Antioch "Corrupters of families will not inherit the kingdom of God. And if they who do these things according to the flesh suffer death. how much more if a man corrupt by evil reaching the faith of God. for the sake of which Jesus Christ was crucified? A man become so foul will depart into unquenchable fire: and so will anyone who listens to him" (Letter to the Ephesians 16:1-2).252 AD Cyprian of Carthage "An ever-burning Gehenna and the punishment of being devoured by living flames will consume the condemned; nor will thee be any way in which the tormented can ever have respite or be at an end. Souls along with their bodies will be preserved for suffering in unlimited agonies. . . . The grief at punishment will then be without the fruit of repentance; weeping will be useless, and prayer ineffectual. Too late will they believe in eternal punishment, who would not believe in eternal life" (To Demetrian 24).252 AD Cyprian of Carthage "Oh, what a day that will be, and how great when it comes, dearest brethren! When the Lord ... [will] cast into hell evildoers and will condemn our persecutors to the eternal fire and to punishing flame!" (Letters 58:10).307 AD Lactantius "[T]he sacred writings inform us in what manner the wicked are to undergo punishment. For because they have committed sins in their bodies, they will again be clothed with flesh, that they may make atonement in their bodies; and yet it will not be that flesh with which God clothed man, like this our earthly body, but indestructible, and abiding for ever, that it may be able to hold out against tortures and everlasting fire, the nature of which is different from this fire of ours, which we use for the necessary purposes of life, and which is extinguished unless it be sustained by the fuel of some material. But that divine fire always lives by itself, and flourishes without any nourishment . . . The same divine fire, therefore, with one and the same force and power, will both burn the wicked and will form them again, and will replace as much as it shall consume of their bodies, and will supply itself with eternal nourishment . . . Thus, without any wasting of bodies, which regain their substance, it will only burn and affect them with a sense of pain. But when He shall have judged the righteous, He will also try them with fire" (Divine Institutes 7:21).350 AD Cyril of Jerusalem "We shall be raised therefore, all with our bodies eternal, but not all with bodies alike: for if a man is righteous, he will receive a heavenly body, that he may be able worthily to hold converse with Angels; but if a man is a sinner, he shall receive an eternal body, fitted to endure the penalties of sins, that he may burn eternally in fire, nor ever be consumed. And righteously will God assign this portion to either company; for we do nothing without the body. We blaspheme with the mouth, and with the mouth we pray. With the body we commit fornication, and with the body we keep chastity. With the hand we rob, and by the hand we bestow alms; and the rest in like manner. Since then the body has been our minister in all things, it shall also share with us in the future the fruits of the past" (Catechetical Lectures 18:19).452 AD St. Patrick "In everlasting punishment they [the soldiers who murdered my new converts] will become slaves of hell along with him [Coroticus], for truly whosoever commits sin is a slave, and is called a son of the Devil" (Letter to the Soldiers of Coroticus 4).




You were saying?
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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Shiny gospel shoes. Please read Philippians chapter 1. Paul says he would rather DEPART (DIE) AND BE WITH CHRIST WHICH IS FAR BETTER.

Stop teaching your dangerous heresies.
Presently, you do not understand that verse, nor what Paul said. Please look more closely at the text of Philippians 1.

Did you desire to look together?
 
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Shiny Gospel Shoes

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... You were saying?
Lion King stated, "...This message has been consistent in all the writings of the prophets and apostles."

Can you show, yogosans, which of the persons you quoted were Prophets or Apostles of either the Old or New Testament canons as Lion King spoke of?

The people you have quoted have no authority when it comes to "It is written."

Paul had already warned of deceivers coming into the Church and of those which would arise in the midst of it, preaching heresies as immortal soul theology, and eternal torments which stems from it.
[Act 20:29-31 KJV] 29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
 
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Eternal death adherents usually think their version is an improvement over eternal torture and that it somehow makes God 'more just.'

Eternal torture adherents believe that the promotion of eternal death encourages fatalism and sin i.e. 'well, we're going to eternally die anyway so WHO CARES? Sin away!' And they are right to see it that way as that is exactly what it promotes.

s
 
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