Signs and wonders

sunlover1 · Jun 12, 2014

simonthezealot said:
So you are a snake handler then?
Can you drink anti-freeze?

It doesn't say to tempt/test God though.
It says IF you drink poison.. (that would not be on purpose)
I totally believe that IF YOU HAVE FAITH in God, and you
were to be poisoned, it would not harm you.
Same with snakes.. and I'd imagine it's not limited
to snakes but just God's way of saying, I GOD, have
your back, now Go out and DO.. without fear of death
by nature.
Today I slapped my knife against an avacodo seed to
twist it out.. the knife missed the seed and hit the flesh
of the avacado and .. I was smacking it so it came half
way down through the fruit.. No way could my thumb
of my left hand have not gotten sliced. I stared at that
spot of my hand for a long while.. kept looking at the fruit
then my hand lol..
Have had it happen with burning a few times too. One
time it was when teenagers were sitting at the snack
bar watching me cook.. so that was cool. for them to
see instant healing.

I do believe God's will for us is to go and make disciples.
pray WITHOUT ceasing, do good, heal the sick, help
those that he puts in our path and that we should shake
off insignificant "flesh related" stuff. We're not our body,
we're the spirit inside of that tent..
That's how i see it and it's held true for me for the most
part.
Things heal overnight or right away,...several times I
was sure I should see blood yet .. nothing. large lump
went to church , bam.. gone..

HisSparkPlug · Jun 12, 2014

prodromos said:
More to the point, why aren't they at the hospitals laying hands on all the sick?

I addressed this previously in the thread but don't think you were around at the time.

Jesus did only as He saw His Father do and only did as His Father told Him to do. We are the same because we walk the same walk Jesus walked and have access to the same power and authority IF we are in close relationship and intimacy with the Father and are dead to self. Problem is, not many are dead enough to their flesh and the world to be able to walk in intimacy. The more we die to the flesh, the more we walk in intimacy. Unfortunately, the church is full of fleshy, carnal minded Christians who are weaklings in the spirit.

So then = Once one walks in Jesus' power & authority, they still are only permitted to do that which the Father tells them to do. That's what walking like Jesus walked is all about -- doing only that which one is instructed to do by the Lord. He has His reasons and who is going to question Him about it?

There have been a few thru the years who were sent into hospitals to heal people however. Also remember, not all people in the hospital are 'ready' in their heart to receive a healing miracle either.

The reason not many walk in this sort of healing gift is because of pride. The Lord will not give a gift to people whom He knows will fall into pride and then fall away (taking others with them). The Lord also will not permit His glory to be shared - That includes others who start worshipping the PERSON who is doing the healing instead of the Lord who is healing through the person.

HisSparkPlug · Jun 12, 2014

simonthezealot said:
So you are a snake handler then?
Can you drink anti-freeze?

Errr...Is this a serious question?
You're aware, aren't you, that this scripture is not an instruction to go around picking up snakes and drinking arsenic ... right?
It's about God's protection.

MoreCoffee · Jun 12, 2014

sunlover1 said:
I have gone to the hospital to pray for sick. If i were in the hospital, I'd like to know that Christians would have faith to pray for me. But that makes me wonder: Why didn't the apostles go out laying hands on the sick?

Jesus did.

(Matthew 4:23) Jesus went all over Galilee, teaching in the synagogues, preaching the Good News about the Kingdom, and healing people who had all kinds of disease and sickness.

(Luke 6:19) All the people tried to touch him, for power was going out from him and healing them all.

(Luke 9:6) The disciples left and traveled through all the villages, preaching the Good News and healing people everywhere.

(Acts 10:38) You know about Jesus of Nazareth and how God poured out on him the Holy Spirit and power. He went everywhere, doing good and healing all who were under the power of the Devil, for God was with him.

MoreCoffee · Jun 12, 2014

HisSparkPlug said:
Errr...Is this a serious question? You're aware, aren't you, that this scripture is not an instruction to go around picking up snakes and drinking arsenic ... right? It's about God's protection.

How convenient for you. If that scripture is not an instruction to handle snakes or drink deadly poisons then I guess the rest of it is not an instruction to speak in tongues work miracles or drive out demons, right? Or is this selectivity only available when you want to dismiss simonthezealot's posts?

Mark 16:15-20 He said to them, "Go throughout the whole world and preach the gospel to all people. (16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (17) Believers will be given the power to perform miracles: they will drive out demons in my name; they will speak in strange tongues; (18) if they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be harmed; they will place their hands on sick people, and these will get well." (19) After the Lord Jesus had talked with them, he was taken up to heaven and sat at the right side of God. (20) The disciples went and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and proved that their preaching was true by the miracles that were performed.

The same if that governs the snakes and deadly poison clause also governs the healing clause.

sunlover1 · Jun 12, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
Jesus did.

Great point.
So why aren't you?

MoreCoffee said:
How convenient for you. If that scripture is not an instruction to handle snakes or drink deadly poisons then I guess the rest of it is not an instruction to speak in tongues work miracles or drive out demons, right? Or is this selectivity only available when you want to dismiss simonthezealot's posts?

Mark 16:15-20 He said to them, "Go throughout the whole world and preach the gospel to all people. (16) Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned. (17) Believers will be given the power to perform miracles: they will drive out demons in my name; they will speak in strange tongues; (18) if they pick up snakes or drink any poison, they will not be harmed; they will place their hands on sick people, and these will get well." (19) After the Lord Jesus had talked with them, he was taken up to heaven and sat at the right side of God. (20) The disciples went and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and proved that their preaching was true by the miracles that were performed.

The same if governs the the snakes and deadly poison clause also governs the healing clause.

wow, now there's some twisting going on..
Sup with that?

IF IF IF is not at all the same as THEY WILL...
:doh:

MoreCoffee · Jun 12, 2014

sunlover1 said:
Great point.
So why aren't you?

Because I am not the incarnate Son of God and a member of the Blessed Trinity nor am I one of the twelve apostles that the Lord chose so I neither expect to work miracles nor heal all who are sick but I do expect that God will keep his promises and that he will answer prayers that are said in faith according to his will. But I can't help but think that your question is flippant and that a detailed answer is not what was being sought.

wow, now there's some twisting going on..
Sup with that? IF IF IF is not at all the same as THEY WILL...

If is in the passage in the sentence dealing with healing and healing is the topic isn't it; you're so dismissive of scripture that one wonders why you bother asking for it.

They will is in the passage and is important, the apostles did drive out demons in Jesus' name, they did speak in tongues on the day of Pentecost and on some other days too, and saint Paul did "pick up a snake" with no ill effect but I can't think of any examples of an apostle or any other biblical character drinking deadly poison with no ill effect, can you? But that leads me to wonder why you don't believe the other will in the passage the one where it is said Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved?

HisSparkPlug · Jun 13, 2014

HisSparkPlug said:
Exactly!
Drunk people stumble around and fall down. This is why some call it being 'drunk in the Spirit'. Who can stand under the power of the Living God?
Great point!
I myself have never fallen. The Lord told me one day why.. what He explained to me was beautiful and I love Him even more because of His amazing sensitivity to me.

It happened that when the priests came from the holy place, the cloud filled the house of the LORD, 11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD. - 1 Kings 8:10

Started reading a book by Maria Woodworth-Etter about her ministry in the late 1800's and I can't stop crying.. Some of it is soooo sad. It's a free online PDF version which seems to be legal according to the introduction so here is the link.. It's about signs & wonders and WOW is it ever GOOD! I should be doing other things but I can't stop reading this book and crying:
http://www.ekklesia.lt/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/SIGNS-AND-WONDERS.pdf <-- click to read

@Sunlover I think you would love the above book! This precious woman went through so much persecution and 5 of her 6 children died! She did amazing and mighty miracles for God. The Lord would sometimes put her in a trance and anyone who went near her where she was in the trance would be healed. The religious naysayers would say it was satan who did it and of course they said a woman could not preach or do miracles..yet there was God doing them through her, lol. They obviously forget that many of the apostles went into trances. Oh Lord have mercy on the legalists and bring them into the light..

Whew, anyone who is looking for a good read be sure to read it, wow

tturt · Jun 13, 2014

There are numerous Scriptures which states they fell - in all different directions.

Yes, I loved reading her book and didn't know it was available on line. Thanks for posting that info. The testimonies from some of those who were healed by Yahweh and reading about her ministry was so encouraging.

Thought I should have posted this the other day so here goes - in regards to the two different camps in this thread and others, I have to watch out and make sure I don't pray "...God, I thank thee, that I am not as..." (Luke 18).

MoreCoffee · Jun 13, 2014

HisSparkPlug said:
Exactly! Drunk people stumble around and fall down. This is why some call it being 'drunk in the Spirit'. Who can stand under the power of the Living God? Great point! I myself have never fallen. The Lord told me one day why.. what He explained to me was beautiful and I love Him even more because of His amazing sensitivity to me.

The disciples on the day of Pentecost didn't stumble around and fall down nor did the Samaritans when they received the Holy Spirit nor did the gentiles when they received him, in fact not one case of people stumbling around and falling down is written in The Acts of the Apostles when the Holy Spirit was given. So your claim hasn't got any support from scripture. Not a single verse.

prodromos · Jun 13, 2014

tturt said:
There are numerous Scriptures which states they fell - in all different directions.

Really? Seriously? I don't suppose you can post a few of those numerous scriptures for the benefit of this numbskull who hasn't been able to find any?

prodromos · Jun 13, 2014

HisSparkPlug said:
It happened that when the priests came from the holy place, the cloud filled the house of the LORD, 11 so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD

You would have to be the first person I've ever seen interpret that as meaning the priests fell down.

sunlover1 · Jun 13, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
Because I am not the incarnate Son of God and a member of the Blessed Trinity nor am I one of the twelve apostles that the Lord chose so I neither expect to work miracles nor heal all who are sick but I do expect that God will keep his promises and that he will answer prayers that are said in faith according to his will. But I can't help but think that your question is flippant and that a detailed answer is not what was being sought.

Yes, it was a rhetorical question.
But your response is telling.

If is in the passage in the sentence dealing with healing and healing is the topic isn't it; you're so dismissive of scripture that one wonders why you bother asking for it.

One can only wonder

They will is in the passage and is important, the apostles did drive out demons in Jesus' name, they did speak in tongues on the day of Pentecost and on some other days too, and saint Paul did "pick up a snake" with no ill effect but I can't think of any examples of an apostle or any other biblical character drinking deadly poison with no ill effect, can you? But that leads me to wonder why you don't believe the other will in the passage the one where it is said Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved?

[/QUOTE]
Strawman anyone?

squint · Jun 13, 2014

prodromos said:
You would have to be the first person I've ever seen interpret that as meaning the priests fell down.

That's a fairly common interpretation in charismatic circles.

squint · Jun 13, 2014

God in Christ is very much active today in 'signs and wonders.' But perhaps not in the direction one might commonly consider i.e. on the good side.

For example the segmentations/divisions of the nations is a working of God in an adverse/resisting way. This is a carry over working from the division of languages at the Tower of Babel. This type of division activity is still going on quite actively today and will continue to be so.

The segmentations/divisions of the churches? Same thing.

Dividing and scattering is a long established Biblical principle and it's quite active to this day. This is only one example applied to 2 obviously seen phenom's.

God is quite entirely active in many respects on a daily basis in the ways of allegorical interactions that were set down in principle long long ago. It's actually quite fascinating, once seen.

Nearly entirely predictable.

Luke 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Jesus purposefully speaking to the masses in parables so they would not, could not understand WAS/IS His Way and continues to be so to this day.

God is very very much active and alive/living to this day and is so strongly on the RESISTANCE SIDE of the ledgers.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. +

There were abundant reasons why Jesus went to the temple to confront His enemies. He still does so to this day in each of us.

s

ToBeBlessed · Jun 13, 2014

squint said:
God in Christ is very much active today in 'signs and wonders.' But perhaps not in the direction one might commonly consider i.e. on the good side.

For example the segmentations/divisions of the nations is a working of God in an adverse/resisting way. This is a carry over working from the division of languages at the Tower of Babel. This type of division activity is still going on quite actively today and will continue to be so.

The segmentations/divisions of the churches? Same thing.

Dividing and scattering is a long established Biblical principle and it's quite active to this day. This is only one example applied to 2 obviously seen phenom's.

God is quite entirely active in many respects on a daily basis in the ways of allegorical interactions that were set down in principle long long ago. It's actually quite fascinating, once seen.

Nearly entirely predictable.

Luke 8:11
Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Jesus purposefully speaking to the masses in parables so they would not, could not understand WAS/IS His Way and continues to be so to this day.

God is very very much active and alive/living to this day and is so strongly on the RESISTANCE SIDE of the ledgers.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is alive and active. +

There were abundant reasons why Jesus went to the temple to confront His enemies. He still does so to this day in each of us.

s

I do not agree with this philosophy at all.

The idea that Jesus divides all of these areas and countries has no basis in scripture that this is still happening. The Tower of Babel was at a specific time for a specific reason.

This is certainly a big hill that you are skiing down. With lots of trees and ice and animals and cars. :sorry:

You should reevaluate this thinking as it is not a biblical position at all and there is no grounds for this thinking.

squint · Jun 13, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
I do not agree with this philosophy at all.

The idea that Jesus divides all of these areas and countries has no basis in scripture that this is still happening. The Tower of Babel was at a specific time for a specific reason.

Daniel 4:17
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

This is certainly a big hill that you are skiing down. With lots of trees and ice and animals and cars. You should reevaluate this thinking as it is not a biblical position at all and there is no grounds for this thinking.

Gods resistance to evil is a fairly well established fact in the scriptures. I believe that working is continual, as He Lives.

s

ToBeBlessed · Jun 13, 2014

squint said:
Daniel 4:17
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Gods resistance to evil is a fairly well established fact in the scriptures. I believe that working is continual, as He Lives.

s

What does any of your replies above have to do with the fact that you stated earlier that God still divides countries and other entities today? I'm confuzzled.

Can we please stay on this question.

squint · Jun 13, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
What does any of your replies above have to do with the fact that you stated earlier that God still divides countries and other entities today? I'm confuzzled.

Can we please stay on this question.

The observation, generally speaking, is that God resists evil. Would you disagree?

And I would consider that a very active sign and a wonder as well. Would you disagree?

s

MoreCoffee · Jun 13, 2014

sunlover1 said:
MoreCoffee said:

sunlover1 said:

Great point.
So why aren't you?

Click to expand...

Because I am not the incarnate Son of God and a member of the Blessed Trinity nor am I one of the twelve apostles that the Lord chose so I neither expect to work miracles nor heal all who are sick but I do expect that God will keep his promises and that he will answer prayers that are said in faith according to his will. But I can't help but think that your question is flippant and that a detailed answer is not what was being sought.

Click to expand...

Yes, it was a rhetorical question. But your response is telling.

wow, now there's some twisting going on..
Sup with that? IF IF IF is not at all the same as THEY WILL...

Click to expand...

If is in the passage in the sentence dealing with healing and healing is the topic isn't it; you're so dismissive of scripture that one wonders why you bother asking for it.

Click to expand...

One can only wonder

They will is in the passage and is important, the apostles did drive out demons in Jesus' name, they did speak in tongues on the day of Pentecost and on some other days too, and saint Paul did "pick up a snake" with no ill effect but I can't think of any examples of an apostle or any other biblical character drinking deadly poison with no ill effect, can you? But that leads me to wonder why you don't believe the other will in the passage the one where it is said Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved?

Click to expand...

Strawman anyone?

No straw man argument is present but your inability or unwillingness to interact with the question speaks volumes about the selective way you deal with the passage. For our readers to see you dodging the questions raised is enough to undermine your stated position and added to that your accusation about a straw man argument only adds to the evidence that you do not in fact have any substantial argument to present.

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