2P2P "begins" in Gen 12:1,2

Interplanner

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2P2P should start its thinking at Gen 3:16, but instead chooses to start at Gen 12. Like Judaism, this replaces Gen 3:16 as though the redemption of mankind was a 2nd rate theme for the OT. Replaces and makes void. Those are the verbs Paul uses about Judaism and its replacement theology mistake, which futurism and D'ism has taken up and carried forward.
 

AJCServant

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Hi all
and Hi again Interplanner,

What does "2P2P" mean?

I have seen this term used by you in several of your posts and could not find it from a google browse which is why I felt I should ask.

God bless.


<><> <><

PS – Thank you for tireless efforts in Jesus' and our behalf as one of His holy
[+] ambassadors.

[+: Holiness defined via scripture is - - "set apart for service" to "all" of mankind, and the Trinity does this without favoritism so that eventually 1 John 3:8b+ would be fulfilled in the earth as more "believers" would become "Holy" disciples of Jesus.]

At this late date my strongest impression-concern for this "very" late hour, is that America and the world "direly" needs many many good-anointed, Christ-like, sacrificially-holy and persuasive Jonahs to begin to rise up on Pentecost Sunday in order to avert the cataclysmic economic Mystery Babylon “judgments” that throughout my soul I "know" are on the verge of occurring immediately after the economic Harbinger of 13 Sep 2015 occurs <>https://www.google.com/search?q=Harbinger+of+13+Sep+2015<> “IF” more “believers” would not “openly” and “obviously” repent as 2Chronicles 7:14 encouraged in past ages, and would convert away from their hard hearts and stiff necks and from their own covetousness and Laodicean idolatries in this hour.

Eventually everything that occurs would inevitably glorify
[*]
our Shekhinah Creator God for His own sacrificial and tireless efforts within each church and city in our land and throughout our world, but some painful chastening may be necessary for more “Christians” within cult groups to be taught to repent-convert and to fight the battles with “covetousness” that must not only be fought in this life but also throughout our eternal-life to come.

The covetousness promoted by Beelzebub, Gog and Magog will have eventually been seen as the root of all evil within our Lord's vast creation. [1Timothy 6:10]

[*:<>John 15:8 - - Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
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<>
2Chronicles 7:14 - - If my people, . . . will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and heal . . .
]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Will it have been an eternal shame to us all that most American Evangelical churches dogmatically teach the scriptures in such a way that it promotes strong political pressures to NOT think very deeply concerning any other much-more “obvious” interpretations and doctrines that are true and could become “more” eternally fruitful than the doctrines- of- men that are already being taught?[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]So that each generation should have been taught to resist-expose evil tares and doctrines, and to separate oneself from the presence of obviously prideful or carnal men, so that converting believers might more easily grow in their grace and knowledge of the Lord and in their holiness [+] towards their Eternal Creator and “all” others.[/FONT]

And so like other cultures who were “suddenly” “chastened” in the decades or ages past, I do not “know” if there are enough virtuous, faith-filled and faithful Berean type “believers” in America and the world that have a “similar” heart as my own to work towards accomplishing the task to “turn” America and the world from its becoming a much more "obvious" slave-servant to the various Mystery Babylonian Empires that our Shekhinah Creator Father God has “allowed” Beelzebub, Gog and Magog to have created throughout the world that currently exists in this pivotal hour.

Since after almost an entire year of tireless efforts so few in this highly skilled and focused forum have “obviously” repented, so that my own “best” efforts might have been eternally “obvious” to have been similar to a Jeremiah rather than a Jonah.

Yet I know that our all powerful God of love and peace is able to radically change our world through a rare-few "believers" IF "more" of us angel-saints-in-training would give "their" life with all of their heart, mind, soul and strength to the immediate tasks at hand and would be willing to be sifted and trained to bear good eternal fruit within themselves and into others.

God bless you for your own efforts to be like a Jonah rather than a Jeremiah.

SEE ><> http://www.christianforums.com/t7821651-3/#post65755395 <><
AND ><> http://www.christianforums.com/t7824918-2/#post65746671 <><
AND ><> http://www.christianforums.com/users/333908/ <><

<><> <><

Again God Bless you.

Into Jesus' love - we should all put our trust eternally,
AJCServant
John 10 & 15 & 17 & Revelation 21
<><> <><
 
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AJCServant

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PPS -


This next thread-link was forwarded from a previous post {quicklink below} that questioned:


Originally Posted by AJCServant
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]
What happens next if during the 4th blood moon "only" Jerusalem would photograph a day-star?
132600d1397852616-earthsunreflectingthedaystarjpeg.jpg
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Matthew 24:27 - - For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Could there be seven very very difficult years that could come upon America because no-one will rise up to stand in the gap for the American Church and for their culture??????[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Simply due to its Evangelical leaders who would not, or could not, repent of their corporate complacency to rightly-divide and to then &#8220;correct&#8221; doctrines- of- men within America's Churches??????[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Please consider again:[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]2Chronicles 7:14 - - If my people, . . . will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and heal . . .[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Will it have been an eternal shame to us all that most American Evangelical churches dogmatically teach the scriptures in such a way that it promotes strong political pressures to NOT think very deeply concerning any other much-more &#8220;obvious&#8221; interpretations and doctrines that are true and could become &#8220;more&#8221; eternally fruitful than the doctrines- of- men that are already being taught??????[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><><><[/FONT]
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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot the missionary.[/FONT]

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[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><

Matthew 4:19 - -
Come, follow me, Jesus said, and I will send you out to fish for men.

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[/FONT]



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Originally Posted by AJCServant >>>
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]. . . [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]PPPS - Any further "edifying", "wholesome" and helpful comments anyone?[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]<><> <><[/FONT]
 
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AJCServant

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<><> <><

Hi all,
and Hi again Interplanner,

I apologize for hijacking your efforts for these moments.

The CF key word search helped me answer my question when I found this thread:

Support 2P2P - - 4th May 2014, 09:03 PM - - Please present support for 2 Peoples / 2 Programs in the Bible.

<><> <><

Again, God Bless you.

Into Jesus' love - we should all put our trust eternally,
AJCServant
John 10 & 15 & 17 & Revelation 21
<><> <><


 
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KrAZeD

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Starting prior to gen ch6 would become self defeating-God cleanses the entire Earth. Starting with Abraham is the only possibility, since Gods at that point making 2 different "people"- the ones he will dwell-talk with, those who must seek him.


An I really don't see how suffering through childbirth has to do with creating a 2p2p. Though if you mean because of the sub servant, I'm still not seeing the link- though that might G my bias for understanding how a relationship can prosper with that bases.
 
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Interplanner

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Krazed,
I'm not quite sure, but I don't think you've followed the meaning of Gal 3 as it relates to 2P2P. There aren't. That is the simplest way to put it. Judaism thinks there is, but Paul is clarifying that there is not. The promise always was to all nations.

Leaving the question: why then did he start at Abraham? Because he's speaking to them. But anyone who knows of the Seed of the woman, and that the first and last verses of Gen 4 are exlamations: one rendering of v1 is "I have given birth to a man--the Lord" (indicating how vivid they thought the promised Seed was). The last verse, besides the fact that Seth's name means "granted, gifted" is that men began to proclaim the name of the Lord because the Seed was going to come no matter what evil men did. This is embedded in their minds when the Seed is mentioned in Abraham narratives.
 
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KrAZeD

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I'm not really for the 2p2p, we agree their. I just understand why people see it, why it's applicable in today's application. Regardless of it being fruitless.

Again if it starts with Seth's line then it becomes a single line at noahs time- the flood. All were killed except noah and his family. Though to argue that both "people"; Gods chosen and those opposed to him were saved during the flood defeats the purpose of having a flood.

Abraham being the start of 2 people is the only rational conclusion, since their hasn't been a cleansing of the entire earth since. Which is why they go to Abraham as the start and not back to Seth.

I see why you can draw that conclusion of going to Seth, just doesn't really follow through when you account for the flood though.
 
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ebedmelech

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I'm not really for the 2p2p, we agree their. I just understand why people see it, why it's applicable in today's application. Regardless of it being fruitless.

Again if it starts with Seth's line then it becomes a single line at noahs time- the flood. All were killed except noah and his family. Though to argue that both "people"; Gods chosen and those opposed to him were saved during the flood defeats the purpose of having a flood.

Abraham being the start of 2 people is the only rational conclusion, since their hasn't been a cleansing of the entire earth since. Which is why they go to Abraham as the start and not back to Seth.

I see why you can draw that conclusion of going to Seth, just doesn't really follow through when you account for the flood though.
The real problem is that the "two peoples of God" view doesn't correctly follow God's promise to Abraham.

The apostle Paul clears it up legally and theologically in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 & 4...but those who have been taught the "two peoples" view, fail to even see that under the Old Covenant, Gentiles could become part of Israel.

Paul really showed that clearly in Romans 9:6-8!
 
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ebedmelech

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But the 1 people is not a race in a genetic-descendancy sense. There is no sacred descendancy. Each person accesses the Gospel and God's grace by faith.
Sure they are! Peter makes the point in calling Christians a "chosen race" the word is "genos", but it is applied spiritually, they are descended from Abraham because they have the faith of Abraham (Romans 4).

Blue Letter Bible on "genos":
Greek Lexicon :: G1085 (NASB)
 
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AJCServant

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The real problem is that the "two peoples of God" view doesn't correctly follow God's promise to Abraham.

The apostle Paul clears it up legally and theologically in Romans 4 and Galatians 3 & 4...but those who have been taught the "two peoples" view, fail to even see that under the Old Covenant, Gentiles could become part of Israel.

Paul really showed that clearly in Romans 9:6-8!

<><> <><

Ebed,

Thank you for showing this key-point to others via this thread.

<>
"under the Old Covenant, Gentiles could become part of Israel. Paul really showed that clearly in Romans 9:6-8!"
<>

God bless you and everyone here in CF greatly for your efforts to mentor others in “the-way-of-holiness” [+] towards God and “all” men. [Colossians 1:20]

[+: Holiness defined via scripture is - - "set apart for service" to "all" of mankind, and the Trinity does this without favoritism so that eventually 1 John 3:8b+ would be fulfilled in the earth as more "believers" would become "Holy" disciples of Jesus.]

Into Jesus' Love - we should all put our trust eternally
AJCServant
John 10 & 15 & 17 & Revelation 21
<><> <><

 
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Interplanner

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EbedM,
I think if you put it that way, people are going to think you are talking about the procedures for gaining membership in Israel in Levitical law, which is not exactly what Paul is speaking about. He's going back before Law, just like Melchizedek is before Aaron.
 
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