Is transgender a lie?

Devnet · Jun 4, 2014

StephanieSomer said:
@Andrea and devnet.....
Let Sky keep talking. He still hasn't realized just how helpful he is in proving my points. His attitude is a real drag on his position. He doesn't seem to recognize it yet, though.

At any rate, I really do defend his right to hold and express his opinions, even if he'd rather not hear mine. He has done me no wrong. I still cherish him as a brother. That won't change.

Plus, he will mellow with age, I'm sure of it.

To be absolutely honest, what I'm worried about is the impact that this thread will have on any emotionally vulnerable trans people who may be reading it. As you said, people kill themselves because of stuff like this.

Skybringr · Jun 5, 2014

StephanieSomer said:
I have posted several sources in other threads to support the assertion that it IS innate, as have others, and you know that. How many sources have you pointed to in support of anything you've said regarding the issue? Not a one. After my, and many others, repeated requests for your references, you still just keep repeating the same position with absolutely nothing to back you up. I will defend your right to keep your opinions. But, you're making them all up in your head without researching anything. It takes reasons to reach a conclusion. That's where the word "reasonable" comes from. Yours aren't reasonable. They SEEM to be all driven by emotion. One can only guess why.

That's all just a complete and utter lie. You all have presented nothing that concludes anything, because there ISN'T ANYTHING.
I don't know how much clearer I can be on that, psychiatrists even tell it themselves when they get frustrated over this fantasy diagnosis.

And if anyone is driven by emotion, it is most definitely you and liberals.
Straight up. It is 90% of you all's A game, the other 10% percent is low balling proper scientific observation that wouldn't hold up to anything else to suffice as the grand master factual facty fact of Transgender™, circa 1970 something.

That's completely stupid, and utterly unreasonable. But then again, there isn't much reasonable in the liberal circle anyhow, so go figure.

A man can now be born in a woman's body.
It's BS. It was always BS, and it will always be BS.

Armoured · Jun 5, 2014

Skybringr said:
That's all just a complete and utter lie. You all have presented nothing that concludes anything, because there ISN'T ANYTHING.
I don't know how much clearer I can be on that, psychiatrists even tell it themselves when they get frustrated over this fantasy diagnosis.

And if anyone is driven by emotion, it is most definitely you and liberals.
Straight up. It is 90% of you all's A game, the other 10% percent is low balling proper scientific observation that wouldn't hold up to anything else to suffice as the grand master factual facty fact of Transgender™, circa 1970 something.

That's completely stupid, and utterly unreasonable. But then again, there isn't much reasonable in the liberal circle anyhow, so go figure.

A man can now be born in a woman's body.
It's BS. It was always BS, and it will always be BS.

You found one "psychiatrist" on the NARTH website that backs your position. You've been shown any number of links to the findings of mainstream professionals in the field who disagree with it. Can you say "consensus"?

If you had a terminal cancer, would you want to go to one of the fringe loonies who treats cancer with herbal tea infusions, or a state of the art, well regarded oncologist accredited by all the major governing bodies?

poolerboy0077 · Jun 5, 2014

Inkfingers said:
Yes, it is a lie.

The sexes are defined by the biology of procreation, not simply the superficial appearance of possessing that biology.

If I paint an orange to look like an apple, does it become an apple.....

We're discussing transGENDER not transSEXUAL.

Considering how complex the human brain and body is I honestly don't see why there's so much skepticism about it. Nature makes mistakes, yes? Nature has created people who are intersexed (i.e., hermaphrodites) yes? Why can't hermaphroditism occur at the level of the brain rather than just at the level of genitalia? I almost feel people have a tendency to want to dismiss any mental phenomena simply because it is not tangible (which is quite ironic coming from religious people) and offends their sensibilities with respect to sex and gender taboos.

StephanieSomer · Jun 5, 2014

Devnet said:
To be absolutely honest, what I'm worried about is the impact that this thread will have on any emotionally vulnerable trans people who may be reading it. As you said, people kill themselves because of stuff like this.

I recognize your understanding and compassion. It is because of such comments that I DO respond with grace, tact, reason, and factual information to dispel the notion that all Christians are like that.

Many people lose sight of the fact that Christians are people. And just like any other group of people, we are all different. Some might reject due to their beliefs and opinions. It happens. And not only to me and other transsexuals. It happens to all kinds of different groups just because they ARE different. Many transsexuals I know reject the Church because of their notions of the Church being inflexible and judgmental. Those notions are also false. And I have the same opposition when defending Christian leaders to my trans friends. People here only see half of it. I also defend them from the lies being spread by non-Christians. I am a bridge.

It doesn't take many allies to alleviate the hurt caused by rejection. Often, one is sufficient. I try to make sure I am at least one.

StephanieSomer · Jun 5, 2014

Skybringr said:
That's all just a complete and utter lie. You all have presented nothing that concludes anything, because there ISN'T ANYTHING.
I don't know how much clearer I can be on that, psychiatrists even tell it themselves when they get frustrated over this fantasy diagnosis.

And if anyone is driven by emotion, it is most definitely you and liberals.
Straight up. It is 90% of you all's A game, the other 10% percent is low balling proper scientific observation that wouldn't hold up to anything else to suffice as the grand master factual facty fact of Transgender, circa 1970 something.

That's completely stupid, and utterly unreasonable. But then again, there isn't much reasonable in the liberal circle anyhow, so go figure.

A man can now be born in a woman's body.
It's BS. It was always BS, and it will always be BS.

Once again, groundless assertions with no support.

Plus, I'd like to point out that this IS a Christian site. Whereas the phrase "BS" may not be a censored phrase here, I believe most people DO know what you are saying. In this forum, that is obscene. But, it also illustrates your emotional grounds for your argument. That IS an emotionally loaded phrase.

Devnet · Jun 5, 2014

StephanieSomer said:
It doesn't take many allies to alleviate the hurt caused by rejection. Often, one is sufficient. I try to make sure I am at least one.

StephanieSomer · Jun 5, 2014

poolerboy0077 said:
I almost feel people have a tendency to want to dismiss any mental phenomena simply because it is not tangible (which is quite ironic coming from religious people) and offends their sensibilities with respect to sex and gender taboos.

I am a Christian, and I have never realized the irony you just pointed out.
Good job!

Skybringr · Jun 5, 2014

Armoured said:
You found one "psychiatrist" on the NARTH website that backs your position. You've been shown any number of links to the findings of mainstream professionals in the field. Can you say "consensus"?

Intimidated by the antics of the socially disordered and liberal society has simply caused them to speculate speculation as evidence or fact.

That's all it is. If a psychiatrist can say there is no evidence, then what makes you think it is some miraculous super truth?

It's not, it's nonsense. You all simply choose to have faith in an idea that it is real, but that's all it is. You all have nothing to go on to to tell somebody it is factual.

When people have had enough, they go and speak the truth. And that's what that psychiatrist did. He did not lose his job for it either, so apparently it wasn't like he was telling some rank lie.
There is no evidence. Just deal with the truth, and stop spreading lies.

Cute Tink · Jun 5, 2014

poolerboy0077 said:
We're discussing transGENDER not transSEXUAL.

Considering how complex the human brain and body is I honestly don't see why there's so much skepticism about it. Nature makes mistakes, yes? Nature has created people who are intersexed (i.e., hermaphrodites) yes? Why can't hermaphroditism occur at the level of the brain rather than just at the level of genitalia? I almost feel people have a tendency to want to dismiss any mental phenomena simply because it is not tangible (which is quite ironic coming from religious people) and offends their sensibilities with respect to sex and gender taboos.

Not to nitpick, but we are discussing transsexuals mainly because that is the transgender subgroup that actually proceeds to alter our bodies.

But your point is well made

Skybringr · Jun 5, 2014

poolerboy0077 said:
We're discussing transGENDER not transSEXUAL.

Considering how complex the human brain and body is I honestly don't see why there's so much skepticism about it. Nature makes mistakes, yes? Nature has created people who are intersexed (i.e., hermaphrodites) yes? Why can't hermaphroditism occur at the level of the brain rather than just at the level of genitalia? I almost feel people have a tendency to want to dismiss any mental phenomena simply because it is not tangible (which is quite ironic coming from religious people) and offends their sensibilities with respect to sex and gender taboos.

God is more believable then a woman being born in a man's body.

Cute Tink · Jun 5, 2014

Devnet said:
To be absolutely honest, what I'm worried about is the impact that this thread will have on any emotionally vulnerable trans people who may be reading it. As you said, people kill themselves because of stuff like this.

I can personally assure you that it isn't helping

Cute Tink · Jun 5, 2014

Skybringr said:
Intimidated by the antics of the socially disordered and liberal society has simply caused them to speculate speculation as evidence or fact.

That's all it is. If a psychiatrist can say there is no evidence, then what makes you think it is some miraculous super truth?

It's not, it's nonsense. You all simply choose to have faith in an idea that it is real, but that's all it is. You all have nothing to go on to to tell somebody it is factual.

When people have had enough, they go and speak the truth. And that's what that psychiatrist did. He did not lose his job for it either, so apparently it wasn't like he was telling some rank lie.
There is no evidence. Just deal with the truth, and stop spreading lies.

The irony of this post is not lost on me.

StephanieSomer · Jun 5, 2014

Skybringr said:
Intimidated by the antics of the socially disordered and liberal society has simply caused them to speculate speculation as evidence or fact.

That's all it is. If a psychiatrist can say there is no evidence, then what makes you think it is some miraculous super truth?

It's not, it's nonsense. You all simply choose to have faith in an idea that it is real, but that's all it is. You all have nothing to go on to to tell somebody it is factual.

When people have had enough, they go and speak the truth. And that's what that psychiatrist did. He did not lose his job for it either, so apparently it wasn't like he was telling some rank lie.
There is no evidence. Just deal with the truth, and stop spreading lies.

Can you read the evidence if I posted it? It IS quite technical, requiring a grasp of higher mathematics and statistical analysis to be understood. However, if you'd like, I CAN post it for you. I gave a synopsis of it in another thread due to its technical flavor, assuming most wouldn't be well-versed enough in statistics to get anything out of it.

When one psychiatrist breaks ranks from all the others and argues that available evidence isn't factual, he better have some facts to prove what he is saying or he runs the risk of suffering ridicule from his peers. The evidence is accepted by nearly all psychiatrists, psychologists, and therapists; also by the medical establishment. But you find one rebel and hold on for all you're worth! That's true dedication, Sky!

Skybringr · Jun 5, 2014

Devnet said:
To be absolutely honest, what I'm worried about is the impact that this thread will have on any emotionally vulnerable trans people who may be reading it. As you said, people kill themselves because of stuff like this.

Then tell alleged transgender people to stop posting on religious sites.

Can't even take accountability for that, like they're not here to tempt the spirits. Like they think most Christians accept them as okay and will deal with them telling lies about God' natural order.

And as I said, complete and utter emotional perpetuation.
When all else fails_

It's like an infallible machine that transforms to anything that comes at it.
That's what lies usually consist of.

poolerboy0077 · Jun 5, 2014

Skybringr said:
God is more believable then a woman being born in a man's body.

How so?

Proving that birth defects exist is not that difficult. Proving that a celestial being exists, particularly an anthropomorphized one which intervenes in human affairs and is concerned with trivialities like anal sex, I would think is quite a tall order when holding the burden of proof.

Also, note the irony of your statement in the context of a religion (i.e., Christianity) which holds that human babies can be born in a mother's womb without insemination from a male.

Armoured · Jun 5, 2014

Love the logic that a single psychiatrist that says what you want to hear trumps all the other psychiatrist telling you what you don't.

wanderingone · Jun 5, 2014

Skybringr said:
I'll ask transgenders the same question I ask all LGBT: where were you all just a few decades ago?
How convenient that you were all 'forced to be in secret'. Did half of transgenders kill themselves?

Well... many transgender people found support in Albany NY where a (very) long running support group began in the mid 50's.. ending in the early 80's when the primary founder was turning 70. The group reformed and continued until about 8 years ago, I'm not sure if the members became part of the Pride Center or continue in a less official capacity independently. (The Pride Center itself has been in continuous existence since 1970)

If over 40% of gender non conforming people reported at least one attempted suicide in 2011 (study of 6400 people) One could reasonably wonder how many people succeeded in their attempts, and how many of those transgender persons who died had the fact that they were transgender hidden by family member after their deaths.

People didn't just suddenly decide 10 years ago that being transgender was "a thing". The people on this board who are transgender don't sound like they suddenly got an earful of some liberal/progressive agenda and decide they didn't like the gender reported on their birth certificate. So where were they all a couple decades ago? Those who are more than a couple decades old ere probably struggling with the body in the mirror that didn't match the one in their head.. and looking for support that wasn't always there.

Personally I don't think one has to "promote", understand or even support the idea of being transgender to step back and allow people to work with their medical providers to determine the treatment they need to be healthy.

Devnet · Jun 5, 2014

Cute Tink said:
I can personally assure you that it isn't helping

I'm so sorry you have to put up with this. I offer you e-hugs, although I know it won't fix things. :hug:

Cute Tink · Jun 5, 2014

Skybringr said:
Then tell alleged transgender people to stop posting on religious sites.

Can't even take accountability for that, like they're not here to tempt the spirits. Like they think most Christians accept them as okay and will deal with them telling lies about God' natural order.

And as I said, complete and utter emotional perpetuation.
When all else fails_

It's like an infallible machine that transforms to anything that comes at it.
That's what lies usually consist of.

You even assume the reasons why I am here. As usual, your assumption is incorrect

Is transgender a lie?

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So is America great again yet?

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