We are saved by Faith, but our WORKS will be judged on judgement day!!

Hentenza · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
catholichomeschooler said:

Judas came to Jesus, but later rejected God's grace.

Click to expand...

Matt. 26
47 While He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, came up [l]accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48 Now he who was betraying Him gave them a sign, saying, Whomever I kiss, He is the one; seize Him. 49 Immediately Judas went to Jesus and said, Hail, Rabbi! and kissed Him. 50 And Jesus said to him, Friend, do what you have come for. Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him.
51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus [m]reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and [n]cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus *said to him, Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve [o]legions of angels? 54 How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?
55 At that time Jesus said to the crowds, Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me as you would against a robber? Every day I used to sit in the temple teaching and you did not seize Me. 56 But all this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures of the prophets. Then all the disciples left Him and fled.

Notice verse 56. Do you think that God did not know about Judas?

Only those who endure will be saved.

Click to expand...

All believers with saving faith endure. Its called the preservation of the saints.

catholichomeschooler · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
Matt. 26
47 While He was still speaking, behold, Judas, one of the twelve, came up [l]accompanied by a large crowd with swords and clubs, who came from the chief priests and elders of the people. 48 Now he who was betraying Him gave them a sign, saying, Whomever I kiss, He is the one; seize Him. 49 Immediately Judas went to Jesus and said, Hail, Rabbi! and kissed Him. 50 And Jesus said to him, Friend, do what you have come for. Then they came and laid hands on Jesus and seized Him.
51 And behold, one of those who were with Jesus [m]reached and drew out his sword, and struck the slave of the high priest and [n]cut off his ear. 52 Then Jesus *said to him, Put your sword back into its place; for all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword. 53 Or do you think that I cannot appeal to My Father, and He will at once put at My disposal more than twelve [o]legions of angels? 54 How then will the Scriptures be fulfilled, which say that it must happen this way?
55 At that time Jesus said to the crowds, Have you come out with swords and clubs to arrest Me as you would against a robber? Every day I used to sit in the temple teaching and you did not seize Me. 56 But all this has taken place to fulfill the Scriptures of the prophets. Then all the disciples left Him and fled.

Notice verse 56. Do you think that God did not know about Judas?

All believers with saving faith endure. Its called the preservation of the saints.

Click to expand...

God knows what we all will do.

God judges us, not himself.

Do you believe that is God's fault when a man goes to Hell?

Hentenza · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
God knows what we all will do.

God judges us, not himself.

Do you believe that is God's fault when a man goes to Hell?

God know who will not choose Him. He has known all since before birth.

catholichomeschooler · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
God know who will not choose Him. He has known all since before birth.

We choose. God judges us for OUR choices, not his choices.

Hentenza · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
We choose. God judges us for OUR choices, not his choices.

Psalm 3:8
Salvation belongs to the Lord;

God is not contingent on your decision.

catholichomeschooler · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
Psalm 3:8
Salvation belongs to the Lord;

God is not contingent on your decision.

God judges us for our decisions.

A man reaps what he sows.

Hentenza · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
God judges us for our decisions.

A man reaps what he sows.

Again, God is not contingent on your decision. Read Aquinas.

catholichomeschooler · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
Again, God is not contingent on your decision. Read Aquinas.

We will be judged by God for our decisions.

He has warned us that we will reap what we sow.

Hentenza · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
We will be judged by God for our decisions.

He has warned us that we will reap what we sow.

Repeating it is not going to make it true.

catholichomeschooler · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
Repeating it is not going to make it true.

It is true whether or not I repeat it. (assuming you believe the bible is true)

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Hentenza · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
It is true whether or not I repeat it. (assuming you believe the bible is true)

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Here is how Paul states that the believer's work will be measured:

1 Cor. 3
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, [d]precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each mans work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test [e]the quality of each mans work. 14 If any mans work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

catholichomeschooler · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
Here is how Paul states that the believer's work will be measured:

1 Cor. 3
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, [d]precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test [e]the quality of each man’s work. 14 If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

This passage is about purgatory.

Paul tells us ALL men will stand before the judgment seat of Christ. We will be judged by our actions. Those with faith can seek forgiveness while one earth for mortal sins.

There are no exceptions here:

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

Hentenza · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
This passage is about purgatory. <snip>

Nope. No such teaching in scripture.

from scratch · May 27, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
This passage is about purgatory.

Paul tells us ALL men will stand before the judgment seat of Christ. We will be judged by our actions. Those with faith can seek forgiveness while one earth for mortal sins.

There are no exceptions here:

Romans 2
6God will repay each person according to what they have done. 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life.

Gal 6
7Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

I'll pass rather than respond and get in trouble.

from scratch · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
Because all others are a subset of grace, however, since you have already agreed that grace is not something that we can work for, since it is free, then works do not obtain grace but are the result of saving grace.

MoreCoffee · May 27, 2014

Hentenza said:
Grace is the cause of good works only to the extend that it is the cause for faith and salvation. Good works does not yield grace because grace ceases to be grace if it requires works.

That is not scriptural. If works EARNED grace then it would not be grace but works lead to further graces just as growing up leads to greater abilities and responsibilities. The logic in your claims is faulty.

Hentenza · May 28, 2014

MoreCoffee said:
That is not scriptural.

Eph. 2
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and [h]that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Titus 3
5 He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs [a]according to the hope of eternal life.

Acts 16
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

And many more. What is NOT biblical is salvation by works which is the logical conclusion of what you are proposing.

If works EARNED grace then it would not be grace but works lead to further graces just as growing up leads to greater abilities and responsibilities.

Huh? You don't see your contradiction? Can't have earned grace by works but earned grace by works leads to further grace? :doh:

A & ˜A is a contradiction.

The logic in your claims is faulty.

I'm not the one posting contradictions.

catholichomeschooler · May 28, 2014

Hentenza said:
Nope. No such teaching in scripture.

That's your opinion.

It is inconsistent with the opinion of the early Church:

Origen of Alexandria

"For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones [1 Corinthians 3]; but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones; Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works." (Homilies on Jeremias [c. AD 244] or Migne PG 13:445,448)

St. Augustine of Hippo

"The man who has cultivated that remote land [Gen 3:17] and who has gotten his bread by his very great labor is able to suffer this labor to the end of this life. After this life, however, it is not necessary that he suffer. But the man who perhaps has not cultivated the land and has allowed it to be overrun with brambles has in this life the curse of his land on all his works, and after this life he will have either purgatorial fire or eternal punishment [habebit vel ignem purgationis vel poenam aeternam]." (De Genesi contra Manich 2:20:30 [c. AD 389])

"'Lord, rebuke me not in Your indignation, nor correct me in Your anger' [Psalm 38:1]...In this life may You cleanse me and make me such that I have no need of the corrective fire, which is for those who are saved, but as if by fire...for it is said: 'He shall be saved, but as if by fire' [1 Cor 3:15]. And because it is said that he shall be saved, little is thought of that fire. Yet plainly, though we be saved by fire, that fire will be more severe than anything a man can suffer in this life." (Explanations of the Psalms 37:3 [c. AD 392])

Hentenza · May 28, 2014

catholichomeschooler said:
That's your opinion.

It is inconsistent with the opinion of the early Church:

Origen of Alexandria

"For if on the foundation of Christ you have built not only gold and silver and precious stones [1 Corinthians 3]; but also wood and hay and stubble, what do you expect when the soul shall be separated from the body? Would you enter into heaven with your wood and hay and stubble and thus defile the kingdom of God; or on account of these hindrances would you remain without and receive no reward for your gold and silver and precious stones; Neither is this just. It remains then that you be committed to the fire which will burn the light materials; for our God to those who can comprehend heavenly things is called a cleansing fire. But this fire consumes not the creature, but what the creature has himself built, wood, and hay and stubble. It is manifest that the fire destroys the wood of our transgressions and then returns to us the reward of our great works." (Homilies on Jeremias [c. AD 244] or Migne PG 13:445,448)

St. Augustine of Hippo

"The man who has cultivated that remote land [Gen 3:17] and who has gotten his bread by his very great labor is able to suffer this labor to the end of this life. After this life, however, it is not necessary that he suffer. But the man who perhaps has not cultivated the land and has allowed it to be overrun with brambles has in this life the curse of his land on all his works, and after this life he will have either purgatorial fire or eternal punishment [habebit vel ignem purgationis vel poenam aeternam]." (De Genesi contra Manich 2:20:30 [c. AD 389])

"'Lord, rebuke me not in Your indignation, nor correct me in Your anger' [Psalm 38:1]...In this life may You cleanse me and make me such that I have no need of the corrective fire, which is for those who are saved, but as if by fire...for it is said: 'He shall be saved, but as if by fire' [1 Cor 3:15]. And because it is said that he shall be saved, little is thought of that fire. Yet plainly, though we be saved by fire, that fire will be more severe than anything a man can suffer in this life." (Explanations of the Psalms 37:3 [c. AD 392])

As I said, no such teaching in scripture. Outside of scripture people proposed all kinds of hypotheses about where the dead went right after death, including the Jews. However, Paul is explicit that is either here, in the body, or there, with Christ. Every single martyr that have died for their faith have also thought the same.

2 Cor. 5
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord 7 for we walk by faith, not by [c]sight 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Phil. 1

23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

There is no intermediate place of "cleansing." Its either here or there. Jesus is the propitiation for our sins (see 1 John 2).

catholichomeschooler · May 28, 2014

Hentenza said:
As I said, no such teaching in scripture. Outside of scripture people proposed all kinds of hypotheses about where the dead went right after death, including the Jews. However, Paul is explicit that is either here, in the body, or there, with Christ. Every single martyr that have died for their faith have also thought the same.

2 Cor. 5
6 Therefore, being always of good courage, and knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord 7 for we walk by faith, not by [c]sight 8 we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Phil. 1

23 But I am hard-pressed from both directions, having the desire to depart and be with Christ, for that is very much better;

There is no intermediate place of "cleansing." Its either here or there. Jesus is the propitiation for our sins (see 1 John 2).

It is in scripture. These early Christians are quoting scripture to make their point.

They interpret scripture differently than you do.

Why is your interpretation more valid?

We are saved by Faith, but our WORKS will be judged on judgement day!!

I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

Guest

I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

from scratch

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from scratch

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Repentance works.

I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

catholichomeschooler

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