Matthew 24, verse by verse - Fulfilled

Douggg · May 24, 2014

Interplanner said:
Yes, it happened within the 490 years. It was all the 'rebellion that desolates' as first described in Dan 8:13.

The very long reign of Christ is since he inaugurated it. In Eph 5, Christ is married already. Unfortunately it ends in a bit of rebellion, before the new heavens and earth.

Inter, the abomination of desolation is something that will be standing in the holy place to be worshiped. It is rebellion, but against God. It will be an idol, in the image of the beast. Not a group of Jews rebelling against the Roman occupiers.

Interplanner · May 24, 2014

You can't conclude that from Luke though, I mean the whole range of references to the background revolutionary movements/Galileans. The rebellion identified by the Daniel passage and Luke is not just against the Romans, but against Temple Judaism.

The key phrase to watch is when 'den of thieves' is made to be 'den of leistes' which are brigands, terrorists, insurrectionists. It is used in a time lapse way: it's what the temple is becoming. And there is a lot about the zealots that is incorrigible yet they claim to be more inspired than the temple.

The Thess material should also first be understood about the same times, since it is spoken of as present and even as completed (the wrath of God as completed).

So I see the 1st questions about Mt 24 are being ignored all over again. Due to the surge of futurism. People just automatically leap to the/our future. For no good reason.

NT eschatology is either 1st century Judean OR distant future universal.

MithrandirOlorin888 · May 24, 2014

"The Thess material should also first be understood about the same times, since it is spoken of as present" THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT PAUL WROTE 2 THESSALONIANS TO DEBUNK

Douggg · May 24, 2014

Interplanner said:
You can't conclude that from Luke though, I mean the whole range of references to the background revolutionary movements/Galileans. The rebellion identified by the Daniel passage and Luke is not just against the Romans, but against Temple Judaism.

The key phrase to watch is when 'den of thieves' is made to be 'den of leistes' which are brigands, terrorists, insurrectionists. It is used in a time lapse way: it's what the temple is becoming. And there is a lot about the zealots that is incorrigible yet they claim to be more inspired than the temple.

The Thess material should also first be understood about the same times, since it is spoken of as present and even as completed (the wrath of God as completed).

Luke is not the only book in the bible. The zealots were revolting against the Romans. The zealots were not building the tower of Babel, lead by Nimrod. That rebellion is scheduled for the end times.

So I see the 1st questions about Mt 24 are being ignored all over again. Due to the surge of futurism. People just automatically leap to the/our future. For no good reason.

....coming from you.

Inter, the abomination of desolation that Jesus spoke of is in Matthew 24. That's what I was referring to. But you are in Luke. The topic is on Matthew 24.

NT eschatology is either 1st century Judean OR distant future universal.

okay, put Israel over there central to the distant future which we are in, and the Jews coming to Jesus, and you will be on the right track.

Interplanner · May 24, 2014

There is no difference between the gospel accounts.

There are no NT passages on the distant future that have anything Judaic going on.

I don't get your criticism of Luke. He has the highest vocab. He makes the most references to zealot activity. He says the most about the Galileans. He is the transcriber of Paul's thoughts. Lk 21 and the Thess material say the same thing about the judgement that has taken place.

Interplanner · May 24, 2014

Mithr:
the only thing Paul was debunking was that the 2nd coming had already happened. The letter is in the 40s. There is some strange rumor floating around, but he said the events at the temple had to happen first, and they did, in the 60s. before the 2nd coming. That's the same thing that Mt 24A says. The 2nd coming had to be after all that.

Douggg · May 24, 2014

Interplanner said:
There is no difference between the gospel accounts.

There are no NT passages on the distant future that have anything Judaic going on.

I don't get your criticism of Luke. He has the highest vocab. He makes the most references to zealot activity. He says the most about the Galileans. He is the transcriber of Paul's thoughts. Lk 21 and the Thess material say the same thing about the judgement that has taken place.

And the zealots are not mentioned in Matthew 24 - which the abomination of desolation is. :idea:

The abomination of desolation is not mentioned in
Luke 21. :idea:

Interplanner · May 24, 2014

You're straining. The conditions and situations mentioned were due to them. The Sabbath police, the 'messiah's, the bands of followers in the desert or taking over the temple. You're straining to separate the materials. They don't. They also don't separate from Mt 10.

The thing about Luke is that once you follow the Galilean theme, you realize that Jesus risked a lot by settling in their; he put himself in the mainsteam of zealot thinking and risked his own name by people who associated him with 'them.' The complaint from various passages about jesus being a Galilean is not that they were hick or lower class or just from the country not from Jerusalem; it was that they were trying to foment unrest and revolution. They had to get help from the countryside because Herodians and the temple staff were seen as shills for Rome and precious about their temple and how long it took to build.

Would you like a standard bibliographic materials list?

Douggg · May 24, 2014

Interplanner said:
You're straining. The conditions and situations mentioned were due to them. The Sabbath police, the 'messiah's, the bands of followers in the desert or taking over the temple. You're straining to separate the materials. They don't. They also don't separate from Mt 10.

The thing about Luke is that once you follow the Galilean theme, you realize that Jesus risked a lot by settling in their; he put himself in the mainsteam of zealot thinking and risked his own name by people who associated him with 'them.' The complaint from various passages about jesus being a Galilean is not that they were hick or lower class or just from the country not from Jerusalem; it was that they were trying to foment unrest and revolution. They had to get help from the countryside because Herodians and the temple staff were seen as shills for Rome and precious about their temple and how long it took to build.

Would you like a standard bibliographic materials list?

Click to expand...

I don't even know what you are talking about - which makes two of us....

The zealots were revolting against the Romans. That does not make them the abomination of desolation. The abomination of desolation is something that will be setup, in Daniel 12, which Jesus referred to Daniel.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

Bro in Christ · May 24, 2014

interpreter said:
Matthew 24 was fulfilled in the 4th century when the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds, and Jesus came into power through St. Constantine who rode a white horse and conquered with a bow. The day the sign of the Son of Man appeared in the clouds is known as the turning point in history because ever since that day, Christian nations have been the dominant force on earth. And Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered the elect of all the Church together, to Nicea.

yet we are to do 2 cor 5:7 but you are stating that your a Jew which is very dangerous rev 2:9, rev 3:9 .....

Matt 24:21 has not happen at 70 ad or 4th century or the 13th when half the population of the world died from Black death or WWII .... it will be much worst

Interplanner · May 25, 2014

Mt24A is about 1st century Judea. Part of this we know from its parallels to Mt 10, which are about their times, which no one here at CF talks about.

part of this we know because 'gaia' can be translated 'land' not the whole earth as such

part of this we know from the directness, practicality, urgency and vitality of the warnings: those people listening (the whole group of believers is implied) were being warned of things they needed to do to stay safe, and signals they would see.

part of this we know because the desolation of the city was just announced in ch23. It is in each chapter since he arrived in the city for the final time. The act that desolates is expressed in sharp clarity.

interpreter · May 25, 2014

Bro in Christ said:
yet we are to do 2 cor 5:7 but you are stating that your a Jew which is very dangerous rev 2:9, rev 3:9 .....

Matt 24:21 has not happen at 70 ad or 4th century or the 13th when half the population of the world died from Black death or WWII .... it will be much worst

Verse 21 may refer to the great persecution of the Church in the early 4th century (which ended in 312 AD when the sign of the Son of Man appeared, and Constantine, the first Christian conqueror, came into power).

Interplanner · May 25, 2014

...unless you believe that was a huge failure

Bro in Christ · May 25, 2014

Bro in Christ said:
yet we are to do 2 cor 5:7 but you are stating that your a Jew which is very dangerous rev 2:9, rev 3:9 .....

Matt 24:21 has not happen at 70 ad or 4th century or the 13th when half the population of the world died from Black death or WWII .... it will be much worst

did you read
matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

notice the historical facts that at 400 ad .... nothing really happened with connecting with matt 24:31 ... nothing

StephanieSomer · May 25, 2014

parousia70 said:
Originally Posted by Dunbar
Revelation is kind of scary from a literal, futurist point of view.

But "Literal Futurist" is an oxymoron, since futurism requires 100% spiritualization of the time texts.

John declares in the book of Revelation that he was on Patmos when the vision which brought the message he writes was given. He was condemned to Patmos by Domitian. Domitian reigned from 81 - 96, well after the Temple destruction.

interpreter · May 25, 2014

Bro in Christ said:
did you read
matt 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

notice the historical facts that at 400 ad .... nothing really happened with connecting with matt 24:31 ... nothing

Verse 31 was fulfilled in 325 AD when St. Constantine sent his messengers with a trumpet and gathered the elect of all the Church together, to Nicea.

Dunbar · May 25, 2014

StephanieSomer said:
John declares in the book of Revelation that he was on Patmos when the vision which brought the message he writes was given. He was condemned to Patmos by Domitian. Domitian reigned from 81 - 96, well after the Temple destruction.

True, Preterists have to have a pre-70AD time stamp on the authorship of Revelation for their false ideas to be even plausible.

So many reject the 2nd coming outright and are not even shy about it.

Dunbar · May 25, 2014

parousia70 said:
12. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place." (Matt. 24:34)

16. "This generation will not pass away until all these things take place.” (Mk. 13:30)

24. "This generation will not pass away until all things take place.” (Lk. 21:32)

The olivet discourse ends with the 2nd coming so the generation that is being referenced is the last generation or the one that will be alive just before the 2nd coming. Jesus often employed confusing language. He said to pluck out our eyes or cut off our hands when we sin - NOT TO BE TAKEN LITERALLY!!!

Jerusalem of 70AD and it's demise will be very similar to the demise of Babylon (aka Jerusalem) and the 3rd temple. God's word is truth for every generation but especially for the last generation because they will live thru a great tribulation that will never be equaled.

Interplanner · May 25, 2014

the problem is there are other passages about the DofJ that are to be seen in that generation, the most poignant being Lk 23 about asking the mountains to fall on us, and the green v dry tree.

The situation is very simple. He did say everything (the DofJ and the 2nd coming) would happen in that generation, but also allowed for the 2nd coming (only) to be delayed. Paul had every expectation it was right after the DofJ. 2 Pet 3 repeats the allowance that it would be delayed. It is, after all, up to the father. But if the material is about the 1st century Judean situation, it was fulfilled in that generation. It is the universal day of judgement that is delayed.

NT eschatology is either near-future Judean OR distant-future and global. It does not mix these. it can't, now that we are at a huge distance.

riverrat · May 25, 2014

Interplanner said:
Mt24A is about 1st century Judea. Part of this we know from its parallels to Mt 10, which are about their times, which no one here at CF talks about.

part of this we know because 'gaia' can be translated 'land' not the whole earth as such

part of this we know from the directness, practicality, urgency and vitality of the warnings: those people listening (the whole group of believers is implied) were being warned of things they needed to do to stay safe, and signals they would see.

part of this we know because the desolation of the city was just announced in ch23. It is in each chapter since he arrived in the city for the final time. The act that desolates is expressed in sharp clarity.

Mt 24:1-2 was fulfilled in 70 AD. Verse 3 begins reference to the tribulation which is future.

Matthew 24, verse by verse - Fulfilled

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

Junior Member

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

Newbie

Newbie

Senior Member

Newbie

Newbie

Regular Member

Senior Member

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Newbie

Similar threads