2nd Pentecost in Jerusalem?

My big thing with this "glory cloud" thing is this... If that cloud is supposed to represent that presence of God, then why doesn't it come when a person is saved and filled with the very Spirit of God? That makes zero sense at all, in any form. If it is supposed to be God visiting us, then why doesn't it appear when He actually comes to live in us, like He did for Solomon's Temple.....

Frogster said:

My wife just said she heard that the Kenneth Copleland ministry is invloved.

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Are you talking about the same Kenneth Copeland who just had a national pow-wow Live with the Pope to unite Charismatics and Wof w/ the Roman Catholic spirit filled believers? That K.C.?

That was the most interesting thing, it's on Youtube. Ecumenicism. Yup. Yup.

Frogster said:

She just said the Bill Johnson people are into what they call "grave sucking"? She is 95% sure they call it that, but she leaves a bit of room for error.

They think they get the departed persons anointing, I add, no doubt overpressing an OT event.

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Benny Hinn visits the graves of Kathryn Kuhlman and Aimee McPherson for anointing. I think he does it about once a year. He may have stopped now since it's public, but at first he was very open about it. See for yourself.

Frogster said:

She just said the Bill Johnson people are into what they call "grave sucking"? She is 95% sure they call it that, but she leaves a bit of room for error.

They think they get the departed persons anointing, I add, no doubt overpressing an OT event.

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How unbiblical is that, huh? Reminds me of the templars and skull and bones stealing the bones and heads of people. Seems creepy.

What else does your wife know about this 2nd Pentecost Jerusalem? How does Bill Johnson fit in? Who else is involved?

I am so creeped out by this passing of anointing by laying on hands that I don't let anyone touch me in any church. Isn't that sad?

onlybygrace84 said:

My big thing with this "glory cloud" thing is this... If that cloud is supposed to represent that presence of God, then why doesn't it come when a person is saved and filled with the very Spirit of God? That makes zero sense at all, in any form. If it is supposed to be God visiting us, then why doesn't it appear when He actually comes to live in us, like He did for Solomon's Temple.....

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You'll have to ask God why He doesn't give everyone the same gifts and blessings… I'm pretty sure its in the bible somewhere…

1)just bc you don't see it doesn't mean its not there
2) its the Holy Spirit who leads us to see Christ when we are in need or ready… I often say, "if the Lord tells me something - there is a reason bc He isn't a gossip". Sometimes I never know the reason. I know that the people who witnessed to me probably say… I wasted so much time telling her all about Jesus and she didn't want anything to do with it… they won't know till the lord tells them or we meet in heaven.

How many people have had experiences with the Lord that keep it to themselves…?

Why don't people get delivered from demons at the alter… ? God knows. Why did God show His glory to only Moses? Wouldn't it have been more effective to show His glory to all the people…
Why? why? why? Tell it to the Lord maybe He will explain it to you… but You'll need to have faith enough to ask and then faith enough to receive and thats only if God wants to…

some people get lead astray by wonders… the wonders may very well be real but the following after them can be detrimental for some… and then the fakes will follow… that pretty much quenches the whole thing

Oh well history and scripture has taught us that poor teaching can kill people and where ever there is something of value there will be someone to counterfeit it…. so never follow signs and wonders but allow yourself to stay present with the Lord and enjoy His presence. I've had experiences that will last a lifetime. Not huge ones but those precious times when God speaks… its not for the whole world or to start a new theology. It was to comfort me.. …………..and it got me disability when I needed it. Nothing like telling the 'shrink' that God spoke to you…LOL. That was easy. Who knew?

God bless, take a few minutes and pray for this event, maybe the Lord will show you one way or the other…andrea

onlybygrace84 said:

Well the "glory cloud" in the Bible represented God's presence. Such as when He filled the Temple:

And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the Lord, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord. (1 Kings 8:10, 11 ESV)

And the glory of the Lord went up from the cherub to the threshold of the house, and the house was filled with the cloud, and the court was filled with the brightness of the glory of the Lord. (Ezekiel 10:4 ESV)

As he was saying these things, a cloud came and overshadowed them, and they were afraid as they entered the cloud. (Luke 9:34 ESV)

And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight. (Acts 1:9 ESV)

We have God living in us, what need is there for a "glory cloud"?

I mean it is what it is, if you're into that type of thing then good for you. I'm not and I don't see any need for it. The element of faith is believing without seeing....

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In bold, then why would the lord do that for you. The Holy spirit is always a gentle-person and I don't think He'd force Himself on you. IDK… He is sovereign and can do as he wills, but I don't understand your not wanting something if the lord gives it to you??? GEEZ. Maybe the Lord knew I would need it more than you?? Bc I've had times of doubt but then I remember all the times the Lord has come to me and answered prayer in miraculous ways. It has been very encouraging for me. Also I came from years of not believing I was worthy of love (ya know old story dysfunctional family) so maybe the Lord just wanted to give me a hug and tell me I was loved. Because thats how it feels. Today I am very secure in the fact that God loves me and my husband and family love me…. that's a real healing in itself.
I don't think that people, like myself who've had experiences should go out and teach or preach to others that they are lacking or should seek these experiences. I think people should be open to them and allow them if the lord wants. I do see a very real danger in "seeking" signs and wonders….

God bless, andrea

Andrea411 said:

In bold, then why would the lord do that for you. The Holy spirit is always a gentle-person and I don't think He'd force Himself on you. IDK… He is sovereign and can do as he wills, but I don't understand your not wanting something if the lord gives it to you??? GEEZ. Maybe the Lord knew I would need it more than you?? Bc I've had times of doubt but then I remember all the times the Lord has come to me and answered prayer in miraculous ways. It has been very encouraging for me. Also I came from years of not believing I was worthy of love (ya know old story dysfunctional family) so maybe the Lord just wanted to give me a hug and tell me I was loved. Because thats how it feels. Today I am very secure in the fact that God loves me and my husband and family love me…. that's a real healing in itself.
I don't think that people, like myself who've had experiences should go out and teach or preach to others that they are lacking or should seek these experiences. I think people should be open to them and allow them if the lord wants. I do see a very real danger in "seeking" signs and wonders….

God bless, andrea

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What I find interesting is why the Holy Spirit would only do these miracles at a few churches, like Bethel? Creates a real 'have' vs. 'have not' type of thing. Second, would the Holy Spirit really do these kind of miracles if they are publicizing the whole thing? Doesn't seem like that's how God works to me.

ToBeBlessed said:

What I find interesting is why the Holy Spirit would only do these miracles at a few churches, like Bethel? Creates a real 'have' vs. 'have not' type of thing. Second, would the Holy Spirit really do these kind of miracles if they are publicizing the whole thing? Doesn't seem like that's how God works to me.

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But its not a few…. and there has to be an environment where the manifestations are welcome and healthy. As I said, if there were someone there who would be harmed, the Holy Spirit knows that and many are so skeptical it would make them stay home rather than receive.

Its similar to the problem with 'speaking in tongues'. Once the churches started teaching that it was demonic tongues… it scared people from receiving. Does the holy Spirit overcome that fear… sometimes. But generally if an individual doesn't really want something (a particular) gift, the person won't get it. Thats been my experience. As I said before, the Lord is sovereign, he could take the fear… but Jesus always walked away from people before He preached. We have to follow Him…. not the signs and wonders. I suppose many in the churches really want the signs and wonders and that wouldn't be good for them…

Just as there are lots of heal-ings in some places and none in others… Jesus wasn't and isn't today received everywhere… so it is with the Holy Spirit.

again, I have no problem with people who are skeptical, we have to be but at the same time we must come to Christ as children… wise as foxes or serpents, gentle as lambs or doves… something like that…

God bless, andrea

PS: You see the mockers? If this is what happens when people share their experiences… then they either don't share or we who receive them do not want to put people in a position to mock the Holy Spirit. So it may be that I won't share here either. I really don't want these people to sin against the Holy Spirit. Lord forgive them - forgive me for sharing where I should have known there might be this re-action. It's okay to mock me but please don't mock the movement of the Spirit.
I have unsubscribed to this thread, I'll try not to make that mistake again

Andrea411 said:

But its not a few…. and there has to be an environment where the manifestations are welcome and healthy. As I said, if there were someone there who would be harmed, the Holy Spirit knows that and many are so skeptical it would make them stay home rather than receive.

Its similar to the problem with 'speaking in tongues'. Once the churches started teaching that it was demonic tongues… it scared people from receiving. Does the holy Spirit overcome that fear… sometimes. But generally if an individual doesn't really want something (a particular) gift, the person won't get it. Thats been my experience. As I said before, the Lord is sovereign, he could take the fear… but Jesus always walked away from people before He preached. We have to follow Him…. not the signs and wonders. I suppose many in the churches really want the signs and wonders and that wouldn't be good for them…

Just as there are lots of heal-ings in some places and none in others… Jesus wasn't and isn't today received everywhere… so it is with the Holy Spirit.

again, I have no problem with people who are skeptical, we have to be but at the same time we must come to Christ as children… wise as foxes or serpents, gentle as lambs or doves… something like that…

God bless, andrea

PS: You see the mockers? If this is what happens when people share their experiences… then they either don't share or we who receive them do not want to put people in a position to mock the Holy Spirit. So it may be that I won't share here either. I really don't want these people to sin against the Holy Spirit. Lord forgive them - forgive me for sharing where I should have known there might be this re-action. It's okay to mock me but please don't mock the movement of the Spirit.
I have unsubscribed to this thread, I'll try not to make that mistake again

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There are no mockers. This has nothing to do with anyone here sharing their own personal experiences. This is about an event, highly publicized that is labeled as a 2nd Pentecost, which in itself will and I believe is meant to attract attention.

This is not about everyday folks. Please don't make it out to be mockery as it is clearly not. Some put themselves in the limelight. We here, posting on CF do not do that, nor do we have the platform to do that.

Truthfully, I see it as the exact opposite. Anyone on this forum who questions anyone or anything gets clubbed. Things are twisted to be that we are quenching the Holy Spirit or touching God's anointed or leading people astray.

I mean, we are only speaking about facts, but naysayers will blast us for stating facts. Yet the naysayers do no research or spend no time. It's getting so, so, so old. Put some fact behind your accusations puhleeease!

Notice how far away this pre-planned event is to take place, Jerusalem ...

They know who they are reaching out to, people with enough money or credit to travel that far.

They add to their data base and bleed them for the other trumped up ministries they represent.

They win souls with big pocket books and make them feel good as they take the money out of their bank accounts.

birds of a feather flock together

geetrue said:

Notice how far away this pre-planned event is to take place, Jerusalem ...

They know who they are reaching out to, people with enough money or credit to travel that far.

They add to their data base and bleed them for the other trumped up ministries they represent.

They win souls with big pocket books and make them feel good as they take the money out of their bank accounts.

birds of a feather flock together

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Isn't all this put together rather like re-creating the NT (early church) events? Some prophets have even called themselves as being of John the Baptist and Elijah.

I keep seeing it. I push it aside then something else pops up.

Hi,
Biblical account only two Pentecost's. Manifestations of the gifts according to 1 Corinthians 12, 14 IMO are where were at now. IMO the gifts according to Corinthians are subject to the will of the Spirit. The Corinthian church was far from perfect but Paul had to set order there. Galatians had order but lack of manifestations. What gives?

Paul explains that the 9 gifts are for the bodies profit. There is other administrative functions prophets, gifts of healing, ministry of helps, etc. These are mainly for the body. IMO what has happened is that ministry has become a side show and a lucrative enterprise. IMO Paul and his brethren were operating as ordinary dudes. They weren't spooky unlike the super apostles. Ordinary dudes function best in the gifts. They manifest not by long travail, but as folks are real.

Protocol chapter in Corinthians 14 is guidance for us today. The word must be used to determine whether any manifestions are authentic. IMO the Spirit is eager to reveal his gifts freely without coerision. Walking by faith he will always show up.