:scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
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I don't believe I said that if anyone is a good enough christian their attacks will go away. As christians we will, for the rest of our human living, experience attacks from the enemy. The thing is, are we going to allow the attacks to immobilize us?
Again, I am not trying to say that the emotions are not real. I am saying they are conquerable.
I do not believe there was ever a panic attack until after Adam sinned.
I do not visiulize myself on a battle field. That was was scripture that I wrote, albeit a bit paraphrased. Eph 6:12 (Amplified) "For we are not wrestling with flesh and blood [contending only with physical opponents], but against the despotisms, against the powers, against [the master spirits who are] the world rulers of this present darkness, against the spirit forces of wickedness in the heavenly (supernatural) sphere".
NKJ "for we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of widkedness in the heavenly places.
I believe, according to the Bible, it's life that affects chemistry. We may give the attack a clinical name and have means of coping with the name we've given it but according to the Word of God it is not a physical issue, it is spiritual.
As you mentioned with your attacks, they happen as a result of you doing more than you should and your eyes being more on your self than the Lord. You've armed yourself with the knowledge to know how your body reacts to this. Therefore, giving you the warning that you are wandering off the straight and well lit path into the path of your own understanding.
Being armed with this knowledge, you then make the adjustments needed, the main one, resting in the Lord. Then your body follows suit.
For me, I battle depression. I only get depressed when I get my eyes on my abilities, or lack thereof. When in the middle of this God finely get's my attention, I find myself on my face before Him in repentance. Then when I rise, the depression is gone. However, it would not get a foot hold at all, if I never took my eyes off of Jesus. That's what I'm aiming for.
Quaffer
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Amen to that SnuP, and I do. And I think most Chrsitians do.
But fear is not always evil, and anger is not always evil, and sickness is not always evil. Sometimes fear is a promting from God to run. Sometimes anger is a promting from God to affect change. Sometimes sickeness is evidence of a battle going on in your body, and we can be encouraged by the fact that that battle is being faught on our behalf while we wait and "cope" until the final outcome.
And when I am grocery shopping with 2 screaming kids and the lady behind me keeps running her cart into my heels, and I can't get my 2 year old up off the floor so that we can get to the milk aisle, and I am aware of the fact that when I got home I'll have to get the kids down for naps and get the groceries in and put away by myself -- and then my hands start shaking, and I get dizzy, and feel nauseous, and my vision becomes distored and I have trouble speaking ...... This is all because I am not strong enough in faith??? Maybe so. Maybe if I walked with the spirit more closely I could figure out how to feed my kids without going to the grocery store. I dunno.
But SnuP this whole idea of faith healing is a pretty serious thing to consider. I knew a guy who had diabetes and he believed he was healed and went off his insulin. 2 days later he was found unconscious behind the wheel of his car after he went into shock and drove into a wall. Now you might say that his faith was obviously not strong enough or else that would never have happened. But what will you say when it happens again and he runs down an innocent child playing on the sidewalk? What will you say to that child's parents?
And what do you say to the battered wife, who prays every day for guidance and deliverance by the power of the holy spirit, who suffers from depression, anxiety, fear and pain. Who's husband tells her that everything would be fine if she were just a better Christian, and then slugs her again? Is it her own fault for not walking closely enough with the spirit?
What about my brain damaged clients? Do you have any idea how many times those men went to church, came home on fire for God and convinced that if they just had enough faith they would be healed and their life would go back to normal? So they would refuse their meds and then become violent and dangerous, threaten me, pull a knife of their roomate, and then start having seizures and have to be taken to the ER?
But fear is not always evil, and anger is not always evil, and sickness is not always evil. Sometimes fear is a promting from God to run. Sometimes anger is a promting from God to affect change. Sometimes sickeness is evidence of a battle going on in your body, and we can be encouraged by the fact that that battle is being faught on our behalf while we wait and "cope" until the final outcome.
And when I am grocery shopping with 2 screaming kids and the lady behind me keeps running her cart into my heels, and I can't get my 2 year old up off the floor so that we can get to the milk aisle, and I am aware of the fact that when I got home I'll have to get the kids down for naps and get the groceries in and put away by myself -- and then my hands start shaking, and I get dizzy, and feel nauseous, and my vision becomes distored and I have trouble speaking ...... This is all because I am not strong enough in faith??? Maybe so. Maybe if I walked with the spirit more closely I could figure out how to feed my kids without going to the grocery store. I dunno.
But SnuP this whole idea of faith healing is a pretty serious thing to consider. I knew a guy who had diabetes and he believed he was healed and went off his insulin. 2 days later he was found unconscious behind the wheel of his car after he went into shock and drove into a wall. Now you might say that his faith was obviously not strong enough or else that would never have happened. But what will you say when it happens again and he runs down an innocent child playing on the sidewalk? What will you say to that child's parents?
And what do you say to the battered wife, who prays every day for guidance and deliverance by the power of the holy spirit, who suffers from depression, anxiety, fear and pain. Who's husband tells her that everything would be fine if she were just a better Christian, and then slugs her again? Is it her own fault for not walking closely enough with the spirit?
What about my brain damaged clients? Do you have any idea how many times those men went to church, came home on fire for God and convinced that if they just had enough faith they would be healed and their life would go back to normal? So they would refuse their meds and then become violent and dangerous, threaten me, pull a knife of their roomate, and then start having seizures and have to be taken to the ER?
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I battle laziness.
Never a depressed moment here, He took that and Him being here I can always rise above... but things have been going so well of late I find I just want to sit out and nap a lot. I did work real hard for a good few years prior, 18 hour days non-stop so i did get weary for sure...
So maybe we are just resting.... He told me yesterday though, because we haven't been to church in a while, left a good one not because of the pastor, love the pastor, but because of a couple women who were terribly judgemental i thought, and not walking real close themselves (kind of obvious... vanity showing real good) who were in positions of leadership there... so just to avoid any going to the alter with a troubled heart sort of thing, we haven't gone in a while... maybe it was His doing, He did move us into a new area but I think it's time to go back...
What happened.. well generally i look to Him for just about everything, it has done us quite well to do that, wait on Him... so yesterday I am sitting here saying to myself... I really should get more done (and I really feel that way, don't have to get more done but would like too)... and so I am like asking him, in my mind, maybe I prayed I forget... and you know what He said? I heard Him quite clearly... "oh I don't feel like it.." He said that... yea I get the message, bcause He reminded me at the same moment that that's what I do on sunday morns when it's the perfect tiome to sleep in (and miss church) "oh I don't feel like it..."
We are going to make an effort to get up early tomorrow and visit our messianic bros and sisters in town... for sure, I must admit when we go to church, yea, sometimes its easier to say 'oh I don't feel like it' ... because He is here and thats no doubt... but when we get out there early and worship and fellowship... somehow I get more done during the week too...(He walks me through even stuff I don't like to do... which I absolutely love...) even though I gave up my saturday or sunday morn extra sleep hours...
We did twist a while here getting fully into the sabbath, and maybe leaving the one church was about that too... so we'll see how it goes there tomorrow, if I know Jesus He'll have a word direct for us out of the pastor's mouth that He's been speaking here as well... and that may be it as well... there are for sure things He will do in the church (building itself) that He won't do at home... like even though I was saved at home, the Holy Spirit came in here at a church... important stuff like that.. may have to do more with my daughter than myself even..
Never a depressed moment here, He took that and Him being here I can always rise above... but things have been going so well of late I find I just want to sit out and nap a lot. I did work real hard for a good few years prior, 18 hour days non-stop so i did get weary for sure...
So maybe we are just resting.... He told me yesterday though, because we haven't been to church in a while, left a good one not because of the pastor, love the pastor, but because of a couple women who were terribly judgemental i thought, and not walking real close themselves (kind of obvious... vanity showing real good) who were in positions of leadership there... so just to avoid any going to the alter with a troubled heart sort of thing, we haven't gone in a while... maybe it was His doing, He did move us into a new area but I think it's time to go back...
What happened.. well generally i look to Him for just about everything, it has done us quite well to do that, wait on Him... so yesterday I am sitting here saying to myself... I really should get more done (and I really feel that way, don't have to get more done but would like too)... and so I am like asking him, in my mind, maybe I prayed I forget... and you know what He said? I heard Him quite clearly... "oh I don't feel like it.." He said that... yea I get the message, bcause He reminded me at the same moment that that's what I do on sunday morns when it's the perfect tiome to sleep in (and miss church) "oh I don't feel like it..."
We are going to make an effort to get up early tomorrow and visit our messianic bros and sisters in town... for sure, I must admit when we go to church, yea, sometimes its easier to say 'oh I don't feel like it' ... because He is here and thats no doubt... but when we get out there early and worship and fellowship... somehow I get more done during the week too...(He walks me through even stuff I don't like to do... which I absolutely love...) even though I gave up my saturday or sunday morn extra sleep hours...
We did twist a while here getting fully into the sabbath, and maybe leaving the one church was about that too... so we'll see how it goes there tomorrow, if I know Jesus He'll have a word direct for us out of the pastor's mouth that He's been speaking here as well... and that may be it as well... there are for sure things He will do in the church (building itself) that He won't do at home... like even though I was saved at home, the Holy Spirit came in here at a church... important stuff like that.. may have to do more with my daughter than myself even..
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There are definitely places eveningmist where God doesn't work... like your violent clients... hard to say whats really going on there for sure... My feeling is that there are hidden things most people won't tell you, even though they 'claim' to be good christians, well only God knows the truth of their hearts.
I used to get that dizziness, kind of feel queasy, low blood pressure thing... since i have been saved though, it really is gone, so like there have been maybe 2-3 times in the past several years where it's shown up just for a moment, me yea I do think it's something I pick up on the street, wherever... but it never lasts ... I used to get all sort of little wierd things, like anyone I suppose before He got me relatively clean... and still not perfect.. but one thing I know is do your best to keep His word and He will be there, healing, protecting, chasing the devil away. walk with him and He'll walk with you. Always think of Him there by your side, his legions of angels around you....
if you only get that queasiness in the one grocery store, maybe try shopping somewhere else. i know there are places I've walked into, where there was a heaviness shall we say, and it did likewise affect me for a bit afterwards.
And otherwise, just keep Jesus close, keep asking him to search your heart, have Faith for what you ask, and He'll come through.
I wouldn't have been able to raise my daughter very well without Him at all, I had a relatively violent temper myself from time to time, had been hurt a lot, which He subdued completely.
That in itself is a miracle.
I used to get that dizziness, kind of feel queasy, low blood pressure thing... since i have been saved though, it really is gone, so like there have been maybe 2-3 times in the past several years where it's shown up just for a moment, me yea I do think it's something I pick up on the street, wherever... but it never lasts ... I used to get all sort of little wierd things, like anyone I suppose before He got me relatively clean... and still not perfect.. but one thing I know is do your best to keep His word and He will be there, healing, protecting, chasing the devil away. walk with him and He'll walk with you. Always think of Him there by your side, his legions of angels around you....
if you only get that queasiness in the one grocery store, maybe try shopping somewhere else. i know there are places I've walked into, where there was a heaviness shall we say, and it did likewise affect me for a bit afterwards.
And otherwise, just keep Jesus close, keep asking him to search your heart, have Faith for what you ask, and He'll come through.
I wouldn't have been able to raise my daughter very well without Him at all, I had a relatively violent temper myself from time to time, had been hurt a lot, which He subdued completely.
That in itself is a miracle.
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- Jun 13, 2002
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Certaintly you don't believe that going to the grocery store has to result in a panic attack? I believe that if you were to slow down and rest in the Lord before you went to the store perhaps you would not have a panic attack.
Or maybe, if possible you could work out a system with another mom who might watch your kids while you go to the store and then you do the same for her.
No one should go off their medicine unless the doctor says so. Or, they know without a doubt they don't need it anymore, and that is usually confirmed by a doctor. As far as the battered woman goes, she should get away from the one who is battering her.
Faith does not mean you do dangerous things.
Quaffer
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Cool. Then we are on the same page.
LOL! Have you ever grocery shopped with two children in hand? Yes, it has happened. Not always. Mostly I avoid taking them.
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Live4Jesus -- surely you didn't mean that exactly the way it sounds? I'm guessing (based on your generally loving and enthusiastic attitude) that you didn't.
I think it is very possible God was working through me in their situation. Me, the lowly mental health worker.
And also through their families. And, gasp, through their medications too.
Is it possible that God was working through their very afflictions in some fashion? I don't know. I would never say that God afflicted them. But I would say that God can use our afflictions for some good purpose. He is the master of salvaging things.
Does "God working" always have to be evident in mystical events before we can know it is Him?
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Surely He may be working through you, but what I meant was that even though they 'claimed' to be christians, doesn't really mean that much. (in so far as why their violence)
And the rest a possibilty too I will grant you that, that I suppose it may be possible that if He cannot reach someone with His spirit, medication may be the last resort.
Thats why it's important to have faith... if you don't fully believe, then God's work is useless in you. You have to take hold of Him, God doesn't carry screaming kicking prisoners... they would only go back to what caused their trouble anyway if given the chance, faith is real important, waiting on God and trusting He's there or the devil can really get the best of you... 'where is He? why do i feel this way?..I am going nuuuts... I am going to hurt myself... etc'
I never knew God in what people refer to as mystical expriences... He quite real here, just can't see Him, can feel His hands from time to time... He came, He did what He needed to do... I did not see him, however His presence was enough to shake the house off its foundations had He wanted... Mercy me no kidding. There is a real strong sensation of 'life' not the little bit we know when born into this world but a vibrant exuding massive thing, his spirit, love grace peace.... But I was wide awake nothing funny there at all, just like I am now sitting here at this desk. He left the Holy Spirit here as comfortor, just like in the bible, even when i received the Holy spirit there was a great big rushing of wind... just like in the bible. It's Him. God is something I cannot completely fathom... yea the Holy spirit is here, but God is also separate form Him, and even Jesus the son of God, but they have a way of communicating or something as though He were everywhere in the world at one time. God. Thats all I can say... awesome. the reason they call the separate parts of what we call "God' , one, one God, yea but 3 separate guys as well. Plus angels who intercede, they have been around also, usually during times when i've despaired early on... its a presence that speaks sort of...
My best advice ... ask Him to search your heart,, and then be still and know that He IS God.
He works quite silently as well. But faith still has to be there. Big faith because the world around, the popel you know, are easily used by the devil to destroy the work God does in you... don't let them defer you from your journey... it's the best thing you'll ever do, not only for yourself, but, in time your entire family as well. And eventually those spirits that cause others around you to deny your faith, will cease, for the most part.
Thats why Jesus says.. 'I come to set my people free' yea maybe from physical prisons but also from spiritual prisons.
Have faith, Eveningmist, and be blessed. When the Holy spirit comes Evenmist, you'll know, you'll know Him... He lets you know it's Him, Jesus. He will make sure of that...'till there is no doubt in your mind' as He said to me... No mystical nothing, don't look there, just have big faith. Ask. Even ask Jesus to teach you about Himself. He likes to prove Himself, he does know how awesome He is, He wants you to know too.... God will not lose any that love him.
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Faith does not mean you do dangerous things thats rright eveningmist... rememeber when satan tempted Jesus in the desert... to jump off a ledge and he told him the angels would catch him? Jesus replied 'you do not tempt God'.
dangerous stuff, is tempting God. God's angels may catch you once or twice but if you persist, He may just also let you fall to prove your own humanity (or ignorance) to you.
Don't tempt God. This is not a game. When you need Him, He will be there, don't be the little boy crying wolf all the time or He may not respond after while...
dangerous stuff, is tempting God. God's angels may catch you once or twice but if you persist, He may just also let you fall to prove your own humanity (or ignorance) to you.
Don't tempt God. This is not a game. When you need Him, He will be there, don't be the little boy crying wolf all the time or He may not respond after while...
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This does not make a lot of sense to me. It just doesn't ring true to what I know about God's patience. Maybe I'm not undestanding.
These were men who had sustained major damage to their brains. More or less demolished major portions of their frontal lobes, so that they lost their ability to control their own inclinations. They were "disinhibited," and that would be putting it mildly.
It is really not fair to hold them responsible for violent behaviors comitted in a state of insanity, confusion and pain.
They were victims of their injuries, and it was very, very, very sad.
God created us to be social beings and to rely on one-another as one body. It is acceptable and healthy to rely on each other for comfort and support.
But people also do abuse each other, and it does strike me as sensible to avoid those people who tear down, harm, and humilated other people.
Wonderful advice! I will do that.
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That's true, but He isn't real interested in playing games. Have faith and have faith again. Don't test God. Or His patience.
Walk humbly shall we say... with your God.
Oh wasn't aware of that.
Talk to some others who have been saved real good, you'll hear some very surprising stories, about how family and friends can turn on you, to keep you from Christ. Sad but true.
I do it regularly. He hears me right there and has shown me much.
Lord guide our steps.
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Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like some of you are saying that I'm not doing anything lasting to help me with my minor panic attacks. I've already told what I do, and it helps me almost every time. I get better at it every time too. I don't think I am letting myself stay defeated, or that I am letting some kind of darkness stay locked up in my soul. I hope y'all are not saying that, because that would be very insulting. 
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Today at 01:05 AM humblejoe said this in Post #74
Maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds to me like some of you are saying that I'm not doing anything lasting to help me with my minor panic attacks. I've already told what I do, and it helps me almost every time. I get better at it every time too. I don't think I am letting myself stay defeated, or that I am letting some kind of darkness stay locked up in my soul. I hope y'all are not saying that, because that would be very insulting.
Joe,
As long as you're leaning on God you're OK.
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Joe, instead of leaning on mother mary all the time, has it ever occured to you to go straight to the throne? ask of Jesus?
Jesus said... whatever you ask, you shall receive... take Him on His word Joe ... He gave it to you for a reason...
what you waiting for bro?
Jesus said... whatever you ask, you shall receive... take Him on His word Joe ... He gave it to you for a reason...
what you waiting for bro?
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the problem here is not the kids, or the duties or that nagging person behind you. the problem is stress and how you deal with that stress. I don't believe that it has anything to do with faith, rather it has to do with trust. Or more specifically whom you lean upon to help you handle your stress. Leaning upon yourself, your own strenght, your own wisdom, or your own coping only leads you to an imotional state where your mind doesn't want to handle the load any more. But Jesus said that we are to look to the Father. That is also what I meant about becoming more sensitive. For by looking to Him for His leading and answers you may find that He gives you the answers that you need to make everything run smoothly, the right words for that one lady, a way to make your kids asist you rather than hinder you. Or He may just give you a new way of looking at the situation so that you accually can coop. And the same would apply to humblejoe.
In all of these cases the core issue hasn't been dealt with. We already know that God is more conserned about the outside that the in. Say that God does heal these people, or deliver them. Take the batter wife since it is the easiest for me to draw a 'for instance' with. Even if God completely changes the man and fixes the marriage, that doesn't deal with why she married the man in the first place. the heart of a man is more important then the flesh of a man, and the attitudes of a man are more important then the circumstance.
You already know that cause and effect goveners the universe. Seed time and hearvest. Just as Jesus would cast out a demon and see a healing, or for give someones sins and see a healing, the cause of the desease, the reason that some one needs a healing/deliverance should be addressed so that the person can be truely free. And the cause is not always sin or demon, it might just be misconseption, or bad dicision making. But fixing the inside is more important than fixing the outside, expessially since the outside is so influenced by the inside. Scientist say that 85% of all diseases are caused by the way a person thinks. Even something as simple as achne is caused by stress. Most diseases are incured because of an ineffeciant immune system attributed to the inappropriate way a person deals with their environment. So there is more involved with a supernatural healing than just faith. If God allowed a sickness because of something wrong with the inner man, than fixing the outter man would belittle the point.
To answers Joe's question. No matter how good the cooping method, isn't complete deliverance better than just cooping.
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Wow SnuP, your last line says so much. Just coping does not take away the problem. It just dresses the problem up and makes it look acceptable.
That's what I'm aiming at in my own life. Not just coping but getting rid of it all together. To me that's a much better choice.
Thank's SnuP,
Quaffer
That's what I'm aiming at in my own life. Not just coping but getting rid of it all together. To me that's a much better choice.
Thank's SnuP,
Quaffer
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I'm sorry, but psychoses don't vanish in the blink of an eye. Coping is a step in the right direction, toward deliverance. You ask any person that's been through Alcoholics Anonymous if there is such a thing as instant deliverance.
It's the same thing as the concept of salvation. Salvation isn't a single moment, it's a lifestyle that spans a lifetime. It would be foolish to think that a person goes from completely sinful to a perfect saint in a single instant by saying a single prayer and "getting saved". Besides, what led up to that prayer? What things happened in that person's life that led up to that moment? How many times did God caress their heart gently, letting them know He was there, ready for them the moment that they were ready to acknowledge Him? Delivered in an instant? I don't think so...
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