Religious or Spiritual

Armistead14 said:

When asked, I notice a of Christians today will say they're not religious, but spiritual. I've been guilty of this myself. Asking myself why I say this has been something I've been pondering. I think it's more my answer because people point out all the bad issues of religion and the fact that culture was more based on organized religion until recent times. We know the brutal history of Christianity and it's always been a thorn in our flesh debating with non believers. We will say what they did was wrong and not what Christ was about, but the fact is all our doctrines were created by these people of the past, most of them anyway.

I ponder what changed to make Christians more spiritual than religious. Certainly for most of our history religion and politics combined to enforce law on the people, often brutal. I am starting to think it was the rise of science, reason and then secularism that made us deem ourselves more spiritual. We put away slavery, gave women rights, believed in science and reason more than church dogma. Most don't take the bible literal and Christians are becoming much more...er...liberal. For instance, many believers believe in gay rights, many churches like the Church of England have dropped the teaching of literal hell, etc.

I wonder where our "spirituality" beliefs will eventually evolve? Do you think this is good or bad?

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I think that it can be both good and bad (like most things) depending on the heart.

One can be "spiritual, not religious" and be every bit as prideful as those "religious" people that they are lifting themselves above. Or one can be "spiritual, not religious" because they have decided to hold themselves accountable to every belief they hold rather than to accept someone else's box set.

Ultimately, though, we cannot set ourselves above history. Failure is part of the process.

Armistead14 said:

When asked, I notice a of Christians today will say they're not religious, but spiritual. I've been guilty of this myself.

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Theres nothing to be "guilty' about. Christianity isn't a religion, so to identify oneself as 'religious' would only be to put oneself at odds with Christianity.

Religion consists of all the things (believing, behaving, worshiping, sacrificing) the human race has ever thought it had to do to get right with God. About those things, Christianity has only two comments to make. The first is that none of them ever had the least chance of doing the trick: the blood of bulls and goats can never take away sins (see the Epistle to the Hebrews) and no effort of ours to keep the law of God can ever finally succeed (see the Epistle to the Romans). The second is that everything religion tried (and failed) to do has been perfectly done, once and for all, by Jesus in his death and resurrection. For Christians, therefore, the entire religion shop has been closed, boarded up, and forgotten. The church is not in the religion business. It never has been and it never will be, in spite of all the ecclesiastical turkeys through two thousand years who have acted as if religion was their stock in trade. The church, instead, is in the Gospel-proclaiming business. It is not here to bring the world the bad news that God will think kindly about us only after we have gone through certain creedal, liturgical and ethical wickets; it is here to bring the world the Good News that “while we were yet sinners, Christ died for the ungodly.” It is here, in short, for no religious purpose at all, only to announce the Gospel of free grace." -Robert F. Capon

True religion, with its dogma, teaching, practices, etc, has a purpose: to lead us to true spirituality, defined, in my understanding, by love of God with our whole heart, soul, mind, and strength and our neighbor as ourselves.

Armistead14 said:

When asked, I notice a [lot?] of Christians today will say they're not religious, but spiritual.

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Let's be honest. By a lot of Christians, you mean Protestants.

They say this because

1. they are heavily influenced by Luther's false dichotomy between faith and works (works being the rituals and religious things that all Christians have typically done and faith being perceived as divorced from those practices)

or

2. they are heavily influenced by gnosticism's false dichotomy between the spiritual and the physical (the spiritual being different than, better than, and higher than physical action and material value)

or

3. they are worldly people who have their own private religion that doesn't actually change them and make them any different from the surrounding culture except on Sunday mornings

or some combination of the above.

Armistead14 said:

I think it's more my answer because people point out all the bad issues of religion and the fact that culture was more based on organized religion until recent times.

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Again, let's be honest. It's your answer because you're Protestant—you have a problem with religious praxis as tied to and enacted within a powerful, traditional, cultic structure.

Armistead14 said:

We know the brutal history of Christianity and it's always been a thorn in our flesh debating with non believers.

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Speak for yourself and for your own groups. Leave mine out of it.

Armistead14 said:

I ponder what changed to make Christians more spiritual than religious.

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Protestantism, gnosticism, and worldliness.

Armistead14 said:

I am starting to think it was the rise of science, reason and then secularism that made us deem ourselves more spiritual.

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Science, reason, and secularism have been adopted by people who are not Protestant, not gnostic, and that are not worldly, and they don't have your issue.

Armistead14 said:

We put away slavery, gave women rights, believed in science and reason more than church dogma.

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Many people put away slavery, gave women rights, and believed in science and reason BECAUSE of church dogma.

Armistead14 said:

Most don't take the bible literal.

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Historically, almost nobody ever did. Literalism is a modern phenomenon bred by Postivists, and it leads either to blind fundamentalism or charismatic escapism.

Armistead14 said:

Christians are becoming much more...er...liberal.

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Titles mean nothing, only truth.

Armistead14 said:

For instance, many believers believe in gay rights, many churches like the Church of England have dropped the teaching of literal hell, etc.

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So what?

Armistead14 said:

I wonder where our "spirituality" beliefs will eventually evolve?

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Only you “spiritual” people can say. I'm religious like all those Christians who came before me and always will be.

The term "religiously" plays into the perceptions. Society uses "religious" to mean disciplined, repeated, devoted to in a way that we can set aside emotional ups and downs to commit ourselves selflessly to a (practice or belief.)

Square vs. amoeboid.

Also, one of the Merriam-Webster definitions of religion:
archaic : scrupulous conformity

Spirituality is more fluid and perceptual, used for saying one is in tune with the supernatural realm or in continual communication with God.

But I hear some Christians today using it when saying they are also practicing pagans.

I tend to not use "religion" because people jump on the term. Whether Christian (Protestant?) or agnostic, they don't believe a person should adhere to a rigid set of values and practices, so they don't want to hear the word.

The term has become ineffective, and something must replace it in order to communicate effectively.

Because you're Protestant—you have a problem with religious praxis as tied to and enacted within a powerful, traditional, cultic structure....

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Protestantism is quite broad, and includes Anglican, Episcopal, and Lutheran liturgical traditions. Have you attended any of these services? They are highly traditional and powerful. (I avoid using the word cultic due to its implications.)

Luther's false dichotomy between faith and works (works being the rituals and religious things that all Christians have typically done and faith being perceived as divorced from those practices)

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Lutheran churches usually teach that works are a tangible extension of our faith, an expression of our love for God. As do many of the other Protestant churches.

There are some people who use the term "works" in a negative way, but that is a different conversation. That refers to trying to please God through working for our approval, relying on ourselves for salvation when He is the one who sets the terms.

It is true that some people confuse that and quickly spout off statements about works; but in general, the doctrine of any Protestant church never discourages people from serving the church, feeding the poor, ministering to the needy, doing mission work. Look at the calendars and sites of any church, and you will find these "works" ministries.