Unfulfilled promises.
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Ephesians 2B-3A, as you call them, teaches that Jews and gentiles who have trusted in the Lord Jesus have been made into something new, something that is neither Israel nor Gentile. That something new is the church, the "one new man" of Ephesians 2:15 and "the same body" of Ephesians 3:9.
There is not so much as a part of a word in this entire section that even hints that the ancient promises to the nation of Israel had ever been, or will ever be cancelled.
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- May 15, 2005
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Actually, the scriptures plainly teach that God will "purge out all the rebels" from among the entire nation of Israel, and then all the rest of them will repent, thus becming children of Abraham, not only genetically, but by faith in the saving power of the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. If you had been paying attention, you would know that I just posted the scriptures that explicitly say this in the parallel thread titled:
The Restoration of Israel, as Described in the Holy Scriptures
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Yep, the wheat and the tares grow together until the harvest. The world will be harvested not just Israel.
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Interplanner
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...or perhaps all that is about the DofJ and how the Christians continued on afterward
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O
Old Timer
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Isn't everything about the DofJ?
Everything a preterist needs to know in order to have power in that knowledge, right there in a single package.
Everything a preterist needs to know in order to have power in that knowledge, right there in a single package.
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O
Old Timer
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You may not be interested in the truth of unfulfilled prophecy if you can't point to one in the scriptures.
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O
Old Timer
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I've said it before and I'll say it again..
You may not like this thread if you can't point to a single promise to come.
You may not like this thread if you can't point to a single promise to come.
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Interplanner
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The whole world to come is a promise to come (Rom 4); we have a down payment now in the Spirit whose function is the spread of the Gospel and how it proves promises fulfilled to the fathers so that the nations can beleive.
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You mean it's in the future..?
Get out!!!
The world to come..
You're just messing with me now right..
Get out!!!
The world to come..
You're just messing with me now right..
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Interplanner
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sorry OT, I have no idea what you mean.
The world to come (the restoration of all things to goodness and innocence) is yet to come. I don't find anything Judaistic in it.
The refreshing was the Spirit of God, who gives us hope of the above each day we are here slogging through this world and this life.
The world to come (the restoration of all things to goodness and innocence) is yet to come. I don't find anything Judaistic in it.
The refreshing was the Spirit of God, who gives us hope of the above each day we are here slogging through this world and this life.
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ptomwebster
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The future is certainly amazing isn't it.. so much better than the power of the knowledge of the DofJ isn't it?
And I agree.. it shall be the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ.. it shall not be about Judaism, but rather the King of Israel, the King over all the earth in that Day..
Definitely all about the Lord Jesus Christ.. that's why it's called the Day of the LORD and that's why it shall be a thousand years.
NO, that's the EARNEST of our inheritance until the DAY of redemption..
Are you sure you read the NT?
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Let's let the apostle Paul answer the entirety of Biblewriter's misguided application of "THE PROMISES".
Paul does it very well in Galatians 3:16-18
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
Unless one is simply misguided in how this is applied, Paul is saying the promises ARE FULFILLED IN CHRIST..except the RESURRECTION!!!
This is why one CANNOT errantly look back to the OT prophets and try to say those prophecies are not fulfilled BECAUSE PAUL JUST TOLD YOU THEY ARE!
Paul makes this very clear in 1 Corinthuans 1:20:
20 For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us.
Once again, IN CHRIST ALL THE PROMISES ARE FULFILLED!!!
Hebrews 6:13-19 simply TORPEDOES Biblewriters assertions:
13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,
14 saying, “I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you.”
15 And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise.
16 For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute.
17 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath,
18 so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.
19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,
20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 8:6...makes the point again:
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
This passage again shows the folly of Biblewriters thinking, because if God didn't deliver on His promise to Abraham...how could He make further promises??? GOD CANNOT LIE!!!
The thing one really has to do...is when the apostles quote the prophets...you best go back and take a look at that prophecy, and understand that the apostles are telling you about them.
Paul does it very well in Galatians 3:16-18
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.
17 What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise.
18 For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise.
Unless one is simply misguided in how this is applied, Paul is saying the promises ARE FULFILLED IN CHRIST..except the RESURRECTION!!!
This is why one CANNOT errantly look back to the OT prophets and try to say those prophecies are not fulfilled BECAUSE PAUL JUST TOLD YOU THEY ARE!
Paul makes this very clear in 1 Corinthuans 1:20:
20 For as many as are the promises of God, in Him they are yes; therefore also through Him is our Amen to the glory of God through us.
Once again, IN CHRIST ALL THE PROMISES ARE FULFILLED!!!
Hebrews 6:13-19 simply TORPEDOES Biblewriters assertions:
13 For when God made the promise to Abraham, since He could swear by no one greater, He swore by Himself,
14 saying, “I will surely bless you and I will surely multiply you.”
15 And so, having patiently waited, he obtained the promise.
16 For men swear by one greater than themselves, and with them an oath given as confirmation is an end of every dispute.
17 In the same way God, desiring even more to show to the heirs of the promise the unchangeableness of His purpose, interposed with an oath,
18 so that by two unchangeable things in which it is impossible for God to lie, we who have taken refuge would have strong encouragement to take hold of the hope set before us.
19 This hope we have as an anchor of the soul, a hope both sure and steadfast and one which enters within the veil,
20 where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 8:6...makes the point again:
6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
This passage again shows the folly of Biblewriters thinking, because if God didn't deliver on His promise to Abraham...how could He make further promises??? GOD CANNOT LIE!!!
The thing one really has to do...is when the apostles quote the prophets...you best go back and take a look at that prophecy, and understand that the apostles are telling you about them.
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All prophecy concerning the coming of Christ have been fulfilled.
But you havent addressed the 2nd coming of Christ, also prophesied by the OT prophets.
When was that fulfilled?
What about the prophecies that arent fulfilled that have to do with things not involving Jesus Christ?
Surely you dont just discard part of the truth?
Which prophecy?
Every prophecy concerning the coming of Messiah, the King of Israel, already took place.
Every prophecy concerning the 2nd coming is future.
The Jews look to the prophecy that we call the 2nd coming of Christ, and believe this will be the first coming of Messiah, but they are wrong.
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Indeed.
I don't have too. We both know they haven't happened. However, once again Jesus and the apostles make that clear.
When did the Old Covenant end?
Such as?
I don't. But in the instance of Biblewriter's presentation, I've done this with Him before. We diasgree.
Pick one and present it.
Yes
I think I made that plain in saying "the resurrection".
Ok...agreed...but what's your point?
Let's take what James says in the council of Acts 15...
Acts 15:13-18
13 After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, “Brethren, listen to me.
14 Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
15 With this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written,
16 ‘After these things I will return, And I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, And I will rebuild its ruins, And I will restore it,
17 So that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, And all the Gentiles who are called by My name,’
18 Says the Lord, who makes these things known from long ago.
James has just advised the fulfillment of Amos 9:11-15! WHat do you do with that?
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James affirmed the prophecy, it was literally impossible to be fulfilled in James time.
Act 15:14 "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.
Act 15:15 And this conversion of Gentiles is exactly what the prophets predicted. As it is written:
**consistent with Romans**
Rom 11:25 I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ.
Act 15:16 'Afterward I will return and restore the fallen house of David. I will rebuild its ruins and restore it,
Act 15:17 so that the rest of humanity might seek the LORD, including the Gentiles—all those I have called to be Mine. The LORD has spoken—
Amo 9:12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom And all the nations who are called by My name," Declares the LORD who does this.
Amo 9:14 "Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit.
Amo 9:15 "I will also plant them on their land, And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them," Says the LORD your God.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say, "The One who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and He will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
Amos/Acts/Romans are all consistent.
The fullness of the Gentiles could not have been realized when the church was at its youngest.
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It was indeed a purging out of some of the rebels, but it does not even come close to meeting the details of Ezekiel 20:33-38.
In the first place, the purging there was to take place in the wilderness. In AD 70, it was in the city, not in the wilderness.
In the second place, the purging there was to take place after they were gathered from all the countries where they had been scattered. In AD 70, they were already there, not gathered from all the countries where they were scattered.
In the third place, the purged rebels were to not be allowed to enter the land. In AD 70, the survivors from the rebels were taken out of the land.
And finally, God was to do the purging himself, "face to face" with them. In AD 70, it was done by the armies He had sent to do the job.
So once again, like all the pretended ancient fullfillments of prophecy presented by Preterists. The reality does not even come close to fitting the prophecy.
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What you have done is restructured based on what you have been taught and believe.
James did not include Romans 11 in Acts 15. He clearly says that what He said is what Simeon said. Had he wanted to include what you're alluding, he would have said that. He quoted Amos...not Romans.
Now why is that what you construct not consistent with the scriptures? That would be because Paul tells us in Romans 9 "they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel"...he then goes on to testify from the prophecy of Hosea 1 with the birth of "Lo Ami" that Gentiles are God's people...and that they are part of Israel.
What do you do with that? You see, the error you have in Romans 11 is that you're not including the portion where Jews and Gentile together are the olive tree.
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