If you have all of your ducks in a row

I wish the 90-year olds I assist felt comfortable having all their ducks in a row. Often they have signs or so of a simple confession: Do not be angry, God is not finished with me yet. They have had these signs since their younger days to remind friends and family that they are not perfect.

I love their humility, the same kind of humility VOM declares. "Humility is the attitude that regards the honor of God as much more important than the honor of man." This humility is a whole heck of a lot different than Tao Teh Ching humility. Humility for purposes of conquering, for prominence or for other selfish agendas is backwards to us cranks.

In this one area, I am comfortable having all of my ducks in a row. The darkside I used to have, Yeshua stood victorious over! Giving Grimsrud more credit, appreciating Paul's adoration for Yeshua, I can say I am thankful and have gratitude for Yeshua and His creation. "Paul turns to the big problem. He analyzes how people move from the rejection of truth to lack of gratitude to trust in created things to out of control lust to injustice and violence." Grimsrud has my attention in God's Saving Grace: Paul and Salvation. And it fits well with my theology, which is very simple; I thank and praise the Father, Son and Holy Spirit with Scripture.

habanero said:

If you have all of your ducks in a row when it comes to God and theology, should that make you feel uncomfortable?

It seems to me that theology should be, in part, a mystery. Thinking that you have it all together might be an indication you have over simplified things.

How do you remain humble about the ability to under stand theology without becoming a fideist?

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I believe we need to understand that there is a battle for our soul that wages constantly. And Paul describes this war in Ephesians and the Armor we must acquire. The mystery is overcome with knowledge:

Ephesians 3
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


Another quote which points to the unreliability of the OT theology. This theology is what imprisoned and eventually killed Paul.

habanero said:

If you have all of your ducks in a row when it comes to God and theology, should that make you feel uncomfortable?

It seems to me that theology should be, in part, a mystery. Thinking that you have it all together might be an indication you have over simplified things.

How do you remain humble about the ability to under stand theology without becoming a fideist?

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I'd say that to "know theology" includes accepting that there are limits to our understanding. That may suggest an appreciation of the mysteries you refer to, but I think it mainly means coming to grips with the fact that God didn't reveal everything that can be (and ultimately will be) known by us.

Phantasman said:

I believe we need to understand that there is a battle for our soul that wages constantly. And Paul describes this war in Ephesians and the Armor we must acquire. The mystery is overcome with knowledge:

Ephesians 3
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;


Another quote which points to the unreliability of the OT theology. This theology is what imprisoned and eventually killed Paul.

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The OT theology I respect is from Yeshua's prophets. They demonstrated agape love.

NKJV said:

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!

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wintermile said:

The OT theology I respect is from Yeshua's prophets. They demonstrated agape love.

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1 Samuel 6
19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

Slaughtering over 50,000 people because a few looked into an ark doesn't sound like the Father of love Jesus taught of. I'll pass.

Phantasman said:

1 Samuel 6
19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

Slaughtering over 50,000 people because a few looked into an ark doesn't sound like the Father of love Jesus taught of. I'll pass.

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I kinda thought the same thing when I read that. The OT prophets have an important place in our faith, but as examples of agape love....? Hmmm.

Albion said:

I kinda thought the same thing when I read that. The OT prophets have an important place in our faith, but as examples of agape love....? Hmmm.

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Christ, Paul and other disciples project such a different idea of God than many of the OT prophets, IMO. I try to follow Christs "the way and the truth" analogy over things that sounds.........well........not loving or patient, like Christ was. David truly loved the Lord and Solomon was truly wise, though.

God is love. Always and forever.

It doesn't say God became love, does it?

Phantasman said:

1 Samuel 6
19 And he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord, even he smote of the people fifty thousand and threescore and ten men: and the people lamented, because the Lord had smitten many of the people with a great slaughter.

Slaughtering over 50,000 people because a few looked into an ark doesn't sound like the Father of love Jesus taught of. I'll pass.

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Who said only a few looked in the ark? "he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord" After that great slaughter there were still Bethshemesh men left to say, "Who is able to stand before this holy YHWH God? vs. 20." In your opinion what should God have done when men disobeyed and showed Him disrespect?

Der Alter said:

Who said only a few looked in the ark? "he smote the men of Bethshemesh, because they had looked into the ark of the Lord" After that great slaughter there were still Bethshemesh men left to say, "Who is able to stand before this holy YHWH God? vs. 20." In your opinion what should God have done when men disobeyed and showed Him disrespect?

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He kills them for looking into an ark but not for slaying his son. Go figure.

Oh, before you say it "but that was his plan".

I'll take the God who sacrificed his son over the God who slaughtered 50,000 people for peeking.

habanero said:

If you have all of your ducks in a row when it comes to God and theology, should that make you feel uncomfortable?

It seems to me that theology should be, in part, a mystery. Thinking that you have it all together might be an indication you have over simplified things.

How do you remain humble about the ability to under stand theology without becoming a fideist?

Click to expand...

If you have all your ducks in a row, you certainly won't feel uncomfortable. You'll feel like you've got it all figured out. It's not until the Spirit starts plinking those ducks over with His bb gun that you start to feel uncomfortable.

seeingeyes said:

If you have all your ducks in a row, you certainly won't feel uncomfortable. You'll feel like you've got it all figured out. It's not until the Spirit starts plinking those ducks over with His bb gun that you start to feel uncomfortable.

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lol........if we wrestle with things not of flesh and blood, how do you know where the BBs are coming from, and which ducks are being shot?

Answer: knowledge.

Phantasman said:

lol........if we wrestle with things not of flesh and blood, how do you know where the BBs are coming from, and which ducks are being shot?

Answer: knowledge.

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Hmm. I'd say that you don't know. Or I certainly didn't. I know now, but that's because the aftermath of the duck massacre revealed fruit that the ducks were choking out. Fruit in keeping with Christ.

So I'd say: wisdom.

Albion said:

I kinda thought the same thing when I read that. The OT prophets have an important place in our faith, but as examples of agape love....? Hmmm.

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The OT prophets were persecuted and put to death for obeying YHWH. They demonstrated (agape) love; with this type of love they preached and prophesied as He directed them. They completed His will. They put His people before themselves. The OT prophets rebuked oppressors and charged His people to care for the orphans, needy, widows and the stranger.

wintermile said:

The OT prophets were persecuted and put to death for obeying YHWH. They demonstrated (agape) love; with this type of love they preached and prophesied as He directed them. They completed His will. They put His people before themselves. The OT prophets rebuked oppressors and charged His people to care for the orphans, needy, widows and the stranger.

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All of that's admirable, but I don't know that it's what is usually is meant by agape.

Albion said:

All of that's admirable, but I don't know that it's what is usually is meant by agape.

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Agape love is self-sacrificing and unconditional. Attention is given to the fact that OT prophets and other men and women of OT faith had a hesed love for their Creator. I happen to observe their self-sacrificing and unconditional love in His kingdom as well, even if I am in the minority.

In Hunger, Poverty and Religion Bruce C. Birch challenged us to act with agape love pulling from OT sources.

habanero said:

If you have all of your ducks in a row when it comes to God and theology, should that make you feel uncomfortable?

It seems to me that theology should be, in part, a mystery. Thinking that you have it all together might be an indication you have over simplified things.

How do you remain humble about the ability to under stand theology without becoming a fideist?

Click to expand...

I agree ... that one's journey in life was meant to be an ongoing sojourn towards Heaven. I cannot say "I have arrived at all Truth!" until He brings me Home.

wintermile said:

Agape love is self-sacrificing and unconditional. Attention is given to the fact that OT prophets and other men and women of OT faith had a hesed love for their Creator. I happen to observe their self-sacrificing and unconditional love in His kingdom as well, even if I am in the minority.

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I don't disagree, but being self-sacrificing and unconditional is not all that defines agape.

seeingeyes said:

Hmm. I'd say that you don't know. Or I certainly didn't. I know now, but that's because the aftermath of the duck massacre revealed fruit that the ducks were choking out. Fruit in keeping with Christ.

So I'd say: wisdom.

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Actually both.

Colossians 2
2 That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ;
3 In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.