The BIBLE only is the standard for truth... (3)

THIS · Apr 27, 2014

topcare said:
So you have no idea where that verse is do you. Do you know how I know your blowing smoke? Jesus never said that but it is in the Bible and it is not talking about God's truth but God's Church.

God's Church is not a denomination, or a building.

God's Church is people who worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Peter just spoke God's Truth, and that is what Jesus builds his Church on, God's Truth.

topcare said:
Number one I am not Orthodox and number two I knew you would try to explain the Eucharist away because Scripture alone types only believe what they want not really what Scripture says

You merely deny, but you do not address the scriptures I gave.

We literally eat Jesus flesh when we obey his teachings.

THIS · Apr 27, 2014

I am new here and did not know that this was an Orthodox only area.

I understand that I cannot discuss my beliefs here; so if anyone would like to debate more with me, please take it to a thread where it is allowed.

LittleLambofJesus · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
I am new here and did not know that this was an Orthodox only area.

I understand that I cannot discuss my beliefs here; so if anyone would like to debate more with me, please take it to a thread where it is allowed.

What are your beliefs?

.

THIS · Apr 27, 2014

LittleLambofJesus said:
What are your beliefs?

.

I am glad you asked.
I believe all denominations have false doctrines, and even a child of King David was to search for God’s Truth. See 1 Chronicles 22:19.
I believe that obeying Jesus’ teachings is everything, and that we have to check on everything that others try to teach us.
I believe that if you obey Jesus, he will live in your heart. See John 14:23.

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
Anyone who can see can see what you are implying.

Anyone can see I'm saying it is not within your purvue of skills to know whether someone believes the Bible or believes God. That is left up to God. Statements like "So you decide not to believe the Bible" and "So you choose to disobey God" and the ilk are not only against the rules, but are not worthy of Christian discourse in any way, shape, or form. Even if it is true, the statement is completely devoid of love.

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
You told me what you believe. I have shown you with scripture that you do things that God says not to do.

I've told you I believe the Icons to be images of God and His Saints, a visible reminder. I've told you they were given to us by the Apostle Luke, whose works still exist in Syria and Greece.

Are you going to report yourself for saying Independent Fundamentalists are not believing the truth?

By the way, I am not an Independent Fundamentalist.

No, because I did not accuse an individual of anything. I stated that only one Church has the ability to declare no man aside from the Apostles and Christ as its founder. All other churches are, by that definition, incomplete. They are not unchristian, or heretical, because to be a heretic, you have to have been in the one Church and then left it. They are just incomplete. That is the Orthodox teaching.

Almost all of the New Testament writings were LETTERS from the Apostles to the churches to READ and share with each other. Those letters are WRITTEN SCRIPTURE.

Colossians 4:16 After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.

1 Thessalonians 5:27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers and sisters.

And for forty years, the Apostles hadn't written any of the Scripture we have

For forty years, there was no New Testament Scripture, because for forty years, even Galatians, the earliest of Paul's letters, was not yet written.

What did they rely on without NT Scripture?

The first Christians accepted as scripture New Testament teachings by letter and books right from the beginning. In 1 Timothy 5:18 Paul joins a New Testament scripture (Luke 10:7) to an Old Testament scripture (Deuteronomy 25:4) and calls them both scripture. In addition, we can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.

Paul did, but the early Church (you know, the people Paul was writing to) didn't yet recognize which letters were Apostolic and which weren't. The gospels were a huge debate because they weren't signed and no authorship was claimed. The book of Mark wasn't even written by an Apostle when the Authorship was recognized. Neither, technically, was Luke's gospel. It was a huge debate as to what was Scripture and what wasn't. And it wasn't until 367 AD that the list of 27 books was first written. Revelation wasn't officially recognized until the 1400's, and mostly that came from a desire to end the argument, rather than any real decision.

That's the truth about how Scripture came about. There were many Churches where they didn't even have a written LANGUAGE, much less written Scripture. And they survived every heresy without Scripture.

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
I am glad you asked.
I believe all denominations have false doctrines, and even a child of King David was to search for God’s Truth. See 1 Chronicles 22:19.
I believe that obeying Jesus’ teachings is everything, and that we have to check on everything that others try to teach us.
I believe that if you obey Jesus, he will live in your heart. See John 14:23.

1. Then you believe the Church has fallen to apostasy and has thus been prevailed against.

2. we agree

3. we agree...ish

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
No. Tell me what the scriptures I gave you say, since you deny the truth.

They say the following:

Scripture is pure
Scripture is holy
Scripture is true
Scripture is inspired
Scripture is profitable

They do not say:
Scripture is ALONE the standard for Truth.
Scripture is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth

Scripture does not say Sola Scriptura. Men say it

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
The scriptures say the traditions of men nullify God's word.

Jesus says that tradition keeps man from Gods truth:

Matthew 15:6-9 Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:

These people honor me with their lips,
but their hearts are far from me.
They worship me in vain;
their teachings are but rules taught by men.

Mark 7:8-9, 13 You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men. And he said to them: You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions!

13 Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.

The traditions of MEN nullify God's Scripture

The Tradition of God in His Apostles properly exegetes Scripture, because Scripture is a text that needs interpreted.

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
I am waiting for replies from the Orthodox here that are going against me.

finally something we agree on!

We're going against YOU. Not God. Your personal interpretation of Scripture to the exclusion of all else.

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
The other question I asked the Orthodox here is why is it okay for them to incense icons, but not okay for the Israelites to burn incense to the bronze snake, which saved them after looking at it?

They were worshiping the bronze snake. The priest is commanded to burn incense before two giant cherubim statues as he offers the sacrifice to God.

Is it the cherubim to which the priest is burning the incense? Or is it the God of the Cherubim?

If you answered the God of the Cherubim, then you know Who the Orthodox are burning incense to

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
Jesus was speaking about God's Truth.

So I Timothy 3:15 isn't God's truth?

You Orthodox believe that you eat bread that has been turned into the real flesh of Jesus, and wine that has been turned into the real blood of Jesus.

We eat Jesus' flesh and drink his blood by OBEYING HIM.

Jesus' WORD ARE LIFE.

Jesus IS THE BREAD FROM HEAVEN.

We eat the flesh of Jesus when we OBEY HIM.

John 8:51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death."

And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
--Luke 22:19

Is not the cup of blessing which we bless a sharing in the blood of Christ? Is not the bread which we break a sharing in the body of Christ? Since there is one bread, we who are many are one body; for we all partake of the one bread.
--I Corinthians 10:16-17

And he took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, "This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me."
--Luke 22:19

In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.
--Luke 22:20

Nope. Communion is the Body and Blood

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaFYCET-lpA

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
[FONT=&quot]These are the questions I have for the Orthodox and Catholics here.

Tell me, how do you obey Jesus by calling no man 'father'?

I will tell you how I obey...I do not call any brother in Christ 'father'.

Your turn...[/FONT]

The other question I asked the Orthodox here is why is it okay for them to incense icons, but not okay for the Israelites to burn incense to the bronze snake, which saved them after looking at it?

One more question. What do these scriptures mean:

[FONT=&quot]Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you. Deuteronomy 4:2[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Deuteronomy 5:32 So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Every word of God is flawless:[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]he is a shield to those who take refuge[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]in him.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Do not add to his words,[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]or he will rebuke you and prove you a[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]liar.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Proverbs 30:5-6[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]We are exhorted to check out teaching against Scripture (Isaiah 8:20; Acts 17:11.)[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Bereans of Acts 17:11, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to the word, they have no light of dawn.[/FONT]

Here are some questions for you:

Until the invention of the Printing Press, it was impossible to have the entirety of Scripture in one Church, much less in a house. So the average Christian couldn't have practiced Sola Scriptura. Would God have commanded people to follow something He knew they could not practice?

You hold that all denominations have false teaching. Since you are a denomination or are in a denomination, this means you are not immune to that statement. Why should we trust YOUR interpretation of Scripture over all others?

If you say it is the clear word of Scripture, then how is it that thousands of people who believe the clear word of Scripture guides, and yet are divided and disagree on central dogmas?

If you say the holy Spirit leads you, how do you know it is the Spirit, and why should we believe that you, and not any other of the thousands of people who make that claim, are really being Spirit led?

If you tell us to rely on the Spirit, then you either accuse us of not relying on the Spirit, or say we don't have the Spirit.

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
God's Church is not a denomination, or a building.

God's Church is people who worship Him in spirit and in truth.

Peter just spoke God's Truth, and that is what Jesus builds his Church on, God's Truth.

Orthodoxy isn't a denomination. The Orthodox Church is evangelical, but not Protestant. It is orthodox, but not Jewish. It is catholic, but not Roman. It isn't non-denominational - it is pre-denominational. It has believed, taught, preserved, defended and died for the Faith of the Apostles since the Day of Pentecost 2000 years ago.

You merely deny, but you do not address the scriptures I gave.

we have addressed them. You are so insistent that your interpretation is correct that you ignore all others, and even the texts given that your personal interpretation ignores.

We literally eat Jesus flesh when we obey his teachings.

He didn't say that. you did

THIS · Apr 27, 2014

sculleywr said:
I[FONT=&quot]'ve told you I believe the Icons to be images of God and His Saints, a visible reminder. I've told you they were given to us by the Apostle Luke, whose works still exist in Syria and Greece.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It does not matter what you believe the images are to be, it is against God to make any images.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke did not tell anyone to make images. [/FONT]

sculleywr said:
[FONT=&quot]No, because I did not accuse an individual of anything. I stated that only one Church has the ability to declare no man aside from the Apostles and Christ as its founder. All other churches are, by that definition, incomplete. They are not unchristian, or heretical, because to be a heretic, you have to have been in the one Church and then left it. They are just incomplete. That is the Orthodox teaching.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Your false church is like that of the Roman Catholic, thinking they are capable of condemning people. You cannot condemn me, nor can anyone except God. However, I am a child of God forever.[/FONT]

sculleywr said:
[FONT=&quot]Almost all of the New Testament writings were LETTERS from the Apostles to the churches to READ and share with each other. Those letters are WRITTEN SCRIPTURE.

Colossians 4:16 After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.

1 Thessalonians 5:27 I charge you before the Lord to have this letter read to all the brothers and sisters.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]And for forty years, the Apostles hadn't written any of the Scripture we have
$C:\Users\owner\AppData\Local\Temp\msohtmlclip1\01\clip_image001.gif$
For forty years, there was no New Testament Scripture, because for forty years, even Galatians, the earliest of Paul's letters, was not yet written. What did they rely on without NT Scripture? [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I do not believe you.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]You argue about nonsense. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Apostles were there themselves to teach the people. You have no argument.[/FONT]

sculleywr said:
[FONT=&quot]Paul did, but the early Church (you know, the people Paul was writing to) didn't yet recognize which letters were Apostolic and which weren't. The gospels were a huge debate because they weren't signed and no authorship was claimed. The book of Mark wasn't even written by an Apostle when the Authorship was recognized. Neither, technically, was Luke's gospel. It was a huge debate as to what was Scripture and what wasn't. And it wasn't until 367 AD that the list of 27 books was first written. Revelation wasn't officially recognized until the 1400's, and mostly that came from a desire to end the argument, rather than any real decision. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]I do not believe you. I believe Gods Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In 1 Timothy 5:18 Paul joins a New Testament scripture (Luke 10:7) to an Old Testament scripture (Deuteronomy 25:4) and calls them both scripture. In addition, we can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.[/FONT]

THIS · Apr 27, 2014

sculleywr said:
1. Then you believe the Church has fallen to apostasy and has thus been prevailed against.

2. we agree

3. we agree...ish

I believe all Catholic churches, Orthodox churches, and all denominations have false teachings.

God's Truth stands. Nothing can prevail against God's Truth.

THIS · Apr 27, 2014

sculleywr said:
They say the following:

Scripture is pure
Scripture is holy
Scripture is true
Scripture is inspired
Scripture is profitable

They do not say:
Scripture is ALONE the standard for Truth.
Scripture is the Pillar and Foundation of the Truth

Scripture does not say Sola Scriptura. Men say it

If it is not in the written Word, then it is not God's Word.

Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you. Deuteronomy 4:2

Deuteronomy 5:32 So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left.

Every word of God is flawless:

he is a shield to those who take refuge

in him.

Do not add to his words,

or he will rebuke you and prove you a

liar.

Proverbs 30:5-6

We are exhorted to check out teaching against Scripture (Isaiah 8:20; Acts 17:11.)

The Bereans of Acts 17:11, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to the word, they have no light of dawn.

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
[FONT=&quot]It does not matter what you believe the images are to be, it is against God to make any images.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Luke did not tell anyone to make images. [/FONT]

Luke made images. Also, take the image off of your profile and burn all your family pictures, for you violate God's law by having them

[FONT="]Your false church is like that of the Roman Catholic, thinking they are capable of condemning people. You cannot condemn me, nor can anyone except God. However, I am a child of God forever.[/FONT]

The accusations like this will be reported from here on out and will be edited from my responses because they are not valid responses

[FONT="]I do not believe you.[/FONT]
[FONT="]You argue about nonsense. [/FONT]
[FONT="]The Apostles were there themselves to teach the people. You have no argument.[/FONT]

You mean to tell me that 12 men were able to be in thousands of different places every Sunday to teach them?

That's nonsense.

[FONT=&quot]

I do not believe you. I believe Gods Truth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]In 1 Timothy 5:18 Paul joins a New Testament scripture (Luke 10:7) to an Old Testament scripture (Deuteronomy 25:4) and calls them both scripture. In addition, we can see in 2 Peter 3:15-16 Peter recognizes what Paul writes as scripture.[/FONT]

And how did you epistemologically know that Paul really wrote that letter? There were dozens of letters that claimed to be from Paul.

THIS · Apr 27, 2014

sculleywr said:
The Tradition of God in His Apostles properly exegetes Scripture, because Scripture is a text that needs interpreted.

The traditions of MEN nullify God's Scripture.

Gods word is understandable even to a young child.

How from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus, see 2 Timothy 3:15.

We do not need elected men to interpret Gods word for us, but we are to check the scriptures to check out those claiming to be teachers, see Mark 7:14; 2 Timothy 3:15, 16, 17; John 20:30, 31; Acts 17:11; and, Psalm 119:105.

For we do not write you anything you cannot read or understand. And I hope that, as you have understood us in part, you will come to understand fully that you can boast of us just as we will boast of you in the day of the Lord Jesus. See 2 Corinthians 1:13,14.

God revealed the truth to little children, and God hid the truth from the wise and learned.

Luke 10:21 At that time Jesus, full of joy through the Holy Spirit, said, I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.

We are not to follow tradition or church laws or any human rules as authority for the church (Matthew 15:1-14; Colossians 2:8; Galatians 1:6-9; Proverbs 14:12; 2 John 9-11; Jeremiah 10:23).

sculleywr · Apr 27, 2014

THIS said:
If it is not in the written Word, then it is not God's Word.

Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you. Deuteronomy 4:2

Deuteronomy 5:32 So be careful to do what the LORD your God has commanded you; do not turn aside to the right or to the left.

Every word of God is flawless:

he is a shield to those who take refuge

in him.

Do not add to his words,

or he will rebuke you and prove you a

liar.

Proverbs 30:5-6

We are exhorted to check out teaching against Scripture (Isaiah 8:20; Acts 17:11.)

The Bereans of Acts 17:11, examining the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things were so.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to the word, they have no light of dawn.

Christ is a human and thus cannot fit in a book. Therefore Christ is not God's word because Christ cannot fit inside a book.

The BIBLE only is the standard for truth... (3)

I only want God's Truth

I only want God's Truth

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!

I only want God's Truth

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

I only want God's Truth

I only want God's Truth

I only want God's Truth

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

I only want God's Truth

Orthodox Colitis Survivor

Similar threads