The four Empires of Daniel

Douggg

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But he also has to be in the time frame of Daniel. And, Did you ask Daniel if we were supposed to ask other modern Jews on modern websites if that's what he meant?

The Antichrist has to be at the time of the end, which is in Daniel 11, as the willful king of Daniel 11:36, who claims to be greater than any god - which none of your candidates every claimed.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
 
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Douggg

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The Antichrist will be a Gentile, that's what rising out of the Sea means. No Verse about the Antichrist says the Jews will accept him as their Messiah.

Rising out of the sea, in Revelation 13, is that he will emerge from the gentile nations, not Israel.

He cannot be a gentile and be the Anti-messiah. He has to be a Jew. The messiah is the promised great King of Israel, son of David. The Anti-messiah is someone else other than Jesus - who will be embraced by the Jews as their King.

Anti means instead of and/or against. The Antichrist will be considered the promised great King of Israel, son of David, in lieu of the true messiah Jesus. When the Antichrist reveals himself as the man of sin, he will no longer be embraced by the Jews as their King and becomes their enemy.

From there, he becomes the beast in Revelation 13, and will be all out against Jesus and will even try to stop Jesus from returning. Although all along denying that Jesus is the messiah, which the Anti-messiah will have to do to be considered by the Jews as the "true" messiah.

In similitude, have you never heard of the Anti-popes? There were 2 popes at different times in history, mostly in the middle ages, both claiming to hold the same office. Go look it up on the web.

He might attempt to claim he's Messiah Ben-Ephraim, but only using the British Israleism/Britam version of that figure. The Jordanian royal family has intermingles with British aristocracy.
No the Jews are not playing that game. Go to a website like Judaism 101 and read up on the mashiach. The Anti-messiah has to appear to fulfill that criteria.

The idea of the Antichrist being a supposed Jewish Messiah claimant is absurd, all the Old Testament references to him clearly define him as an enemy of Israel. When the Abomination happens the Jews will entirely reject him.
....sigh. You don't know what you are talking about. The Anti-messiah is the prince who shall come who will confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant for the 7 year cycle set forth by Moses in Deuteronomy 31:10-11. He does so because the Jews will have embraced him as their mashiach, King of Israel, son of David.

He does not become an enemy to Israel, until the second stage of his career, which will be when he reveals himself as the man of sin.

Haven't you ever read Isaiah 14:19-20? Don't you know why he is likened to being an abominable branch? Who is the righteous branch in the bible? Who rode into Jerusalem hailed as the son of David?
abominable branch versus the righteous branch.

"Hosanna to the Son of David! Blessed is He that cometh in the name of the Lord! Hosanna in the highest." Matthew 21:9.

Read Matthew 1, the first verse.

The Anti-messiah is the abominable branch. He will be descended from David. The Antichrist is not the mahdi, nor a gentile.

Isaiah 14:
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.
 
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MithrandirOlorin888

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How could a King of Babylon be a Jewish Messiah? There are some actual jewish who believe in British israelism, go to the Britam website.

Contrary to common popular assumption The Man of Sin will NOT claim to be The Jewish Messiah, certainly not The Messiah as in Messiah Ben-David.

This false belief goes back far, it was almost universally believed by the Early Church Fathers. But the Church Father had many problems, even Ireanus and Hipolytus who are correct in much of what they said on Eschatology. One of those key problems was Anti-Semitism, which began to emerge in Christianity following the bar Kochba revolt, when Bar Kochba persecuted many Christians for refusing to follow him. This resentment toward the False Messiah Bar Kochba probably influenced their desire to see the "Antichrist" as a Jewish Messiah.

The Biblical passages they backed this up with were mostly stuff about Dan. Dan however was foretold by Moses to "lap form Bashan" in Deuteronomy 32. And Ezekiel 27:19 "Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market." links Dan with Javan. Dan became the Danoi/Danaans of ancient Greece. The rulers of both Sparta and Macedon descended from Andromeda of Joppa/Jaffa.

First of all, he will be a Gentile.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." Using Scripture to interpret Scripture (everything in Revelation comes from earlier in The Bible) "The sea" represents the gentile Nations.

Daniel 7:3 "And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another."

The second Beast which comes out of the Earth or Land is Jewish, that one is The False Prophet.

Daniel 11:37 "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers" is the only Hebrew Bible passage used to support a Jewish Antichrist theory. Everywhere else it's pretty obvious Daniel and Isaiah others see him as an enemy of Israel. First off, is the "God of his fathers" in question is indeed the Biblical God, that could equally mean Christian. And this is part of his description form the beginning of his career, even at the end of Chapter 11 the Abomination of Desolation hasn't happened yet. He's worshiping a "strange god" (strange here simply means foreign/pagan in the Hebrew). So no, this chapter proves he's not Jewish, certainly not be faith, publicly or privately.

The real basis for claiming a false Jewish Messiah is John 5:43. "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive..

First off he said "if" it's more hypothetical and not a definitive statement of anything happening, and so that makes it hard to build eschatological doctrine on.

Receive does no necessarily have to mean as a Messiah, could just refer to them receiving him as an ally when the peace agreement he'll later break is made.

Because we know from a larger testimony of references that ultimately the Jews will reject the Man of Sin. Matthew 24, Revelation 12 when the woman flees to the Wilderness. That's why Yeshua returns first to Edom in Isaiah 63. I'm inclined to reject seeing this passage as about The Beast at all, but rather about Simon Bar Kokhba, the revolt which lead to the Diaspora.

We should not build any doctrine abut The Beast on Yeshua's statement in the Olivite Discourse about there being many "False Christ" who will "come in my name". Because those are what Chuck Missler likes to call the "non signs" they went on back then and their already happening again now.

What the term "Antichrist" itself means is a factor. I keep seeing scholars say it can mean "in-place of Christ" and thus be effective a synonym for Pseudochrist (False Christ). But this doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Strongs says it means "the adversary of the Messiah".

At any rate only one of the four verses where John used this word in his first and second epistles had The Antichrist in mind, 2:18. I've often wondered if the term should in fact apply to The Second Beast rather then the first, but that's incidental.

The term is defined in 2:22 as "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." And in the second epistle verse 7 has "For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist."

And the Spirit of Antichrist is defined in 4:3 as "And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

Most New Testament references to a spirit of a specific Sin or spiritual problem I don't really view as a specific individual Demon but as a class of Demons focused on that issue. But the idea that there is an individual "Spirit of Antichrist" who will indwell in the coming one I will write a study on someday.

If the Beast claims to be any Jewish Messiah, it'll be Ben-Joseph/Ephraim (or maybe also Elijah, who some are willing to view as the same as Ben-Joseph). And even then it'll be chiefly the British Israelim/Britam type theories about the Lost Tribes.
 
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Douggg

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How could a King of Babylon be a Jewish Messiah?

Do you really think the king of Tyrus in Ezekiel 28 is talking about the literal king of Tyrus?

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

Contrary to common popular assumption The Man of Sin will NOT claim to be The Jewish Messiah, certainly not The Messiah as in Messiah Ben-David0
Did John F. Kennedy, when he was serving on PT109, claim to be the president of the United States?

The Antichrist goes through a series of stages during his career. He is not the little horn, the prince who shall come, the revealed man of sin, the beast - all simutaneously.

This false belief goes back far, it was almost universally believed by the Early Church Fathers. But the Church Father had many problems, even Ireanus and Hipolytus who are correct in much of what they said on Eschatology. One of those key problems was Anti-Semitism, which began to emerge in Christianity following the bar Kochba revolt, when Bar Kochba persecuted many Christians for refusing to follow him. This resentment toward the False Messiah Bar Kochba probably influenced their desire to see the "Antichrist" as a Jewish Messiah.
So, are you saying back before the church became more gentiles in it, that it was common knowledge that antichrist shall come - was a specific person who the Jews would embrace as their King of Israel, son of David, messiah ?

And since then the church no longer connected to the Jewish understanding of the messiah, and began to believe during the reformation that the office of the Pope is the Antichrist and the Pope himself the false prophet?

And now adays, not knowing what messiah actually means, nor what
"the" messiah means bibically, them growing up in a far removed knowledge of what the disicples and everyone else at the times knew about the messiah, comes up with things like the Mahdi is the Anti-messiah.

Hey, wait a minute! That sounds like you.....:)

The Biblical passages they backed this up with were mostly stuff about Dan. Dan however was foretold by Moses to "lap form Bashan" in Deuteronomy 32. And Ezekiel 27:19 "Dan also and Javan going to and fro occupied in thy fairs: bright iron, cassia, and calamus, were in thy market." links Dan with Javan. Dan became the Danoi/Danaans of ancient Greece. The rulers of both Sparta and Macedon descended from Andromeda of Joppa/Jaffa.
I haven't been using any of those verses. So why bring it up? I challenge you to find one, either historic or current day commentator, well known, like Jack Van Impe, Chuck Missler, Joel Richardson (your Mahdi guru), or even a preterist - who identifies confirming the covenant with Moses law set forth in Deuteronomy 31:10-11, concerning the 7 year cycle, the commemorative reading.

First of all, he will be a Gentile.

"And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy." Using Scripture to interpret Scripture (everything in Revelation comes from earlier in The Bible) "The sea" represents the gentile Nations.
The Antichrist will not be a Gentile. He must be a Jew. He is a Jew who will come out of the Gentile nations. Are there Jews in Europe, in your opinion?

The false prophet will be a Jew as well. But will emerge from Israel.

Daniel 11:37 "Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers" is the only Hebrew Bible passage used to support a Jewish Antichrist theory.
Besides being wrong, which I gave you passages in Isaiah 14 as one source of him being a Jew, disdained by God, for destroying his land and his people, and being likened to the abominable branch, if you find Daniel 11:37 to support him being a Jew...
how many passages do you need?

Everywhere else it's pretty obvious Daniel and Isaiah others see him as an enemy of Israel.
Apparently, you are not listening. He doesn't become the enemy of Israel until the latter stages of his career. In 2thessalonians2, he is called the son of perdition, because like Judas, he is entered into by Satan to carry out the act, of betraying his own people.

First off, is the "God of his fathers" in question is indeed the Biblical God, that could equally mean Christian.
No, because each person becomes a Christian on their own accord, not by blood descent from their father.
And this is part of his description form the beginning of his career, even at the end of Chapter 11 the Abomination of Desolation hasn't happened yet. He's worshiping a "strange god" (strange here simply means foreign/pagan in the Hebrew). So no, this chapter proves he's not Jewish, certainly not be faith, publicly or privately.
The Antichrist does not appear in Daniel 11, until verse 36. Because he is claiming to be greater than any god, and opposes God Almighty, the Antichrist in verse 36 is in the beast stage of his career - which is the last stage.

In the Antichrist-beast's view of gods, because Satan from square 1 in the garden tried to convince Adam and Eve that they would be like God, implying gods themselves, the Antichrist will view a structured tier of gods.

But the Antichrist-beast will be greater than them all, he will claim.


The real basis for claiming a false Jewish Messiah is John 5:43. "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive..

First off he said "if" it's more hypothetical and not a definitive statement of anything happening, and so that makes it hard to build eschatological doctrine on.
I gave you the verse of Jesus being recognized as the messiah riding into Jerusalem, as coming in the name of the Lord. The Antichrist is not going to be coming as the one God sent to be the King of Israel, son of David, messiah. The Antichrist spurred by his enormous ego will fancy himself in that role. In Judaism, they teach that any Jew has the potential to be the messiah.

Receive does no necessarily have to mean as a Messiah, could just refer to them receiving him as an ally when the peace agreement he'll later break is made.
There is no peace treaty in bible prophecy.

That is a long popularized notion, because none of the commentators as I have challenged you to find one - who were/are aware of Deuteronomy 31:10-11; so therefore the commentators based on two passage (1) in Daniel 8 that he the King of fierce countenance will destroy many by peace (2) in 1thess5, when they say peace and safety, sudden destruction will come upon them, came up with the idea that the covenant confirmed in Daniel 9:26-27 will be a peace treaty.

Because we know from a larger testimony of references that ultimately the Jews will reject the Man of Sin. Matthew 24, Revelation 12 when the woman flees to the Wilderness. That's why Yeshua returns first to Edom in Isaiah 63. I'm inclined to reject seeing this passage as about The Beast at all, but rather about Simon Bar Kokhba, the revolt which lead to the Diaspora.
sigh.... you first need to go to that opening post I made on the Antichrist - the rise and fall. Then after you get that fixed in your mind, start a study on the crowns on the heads and horns in Revelation 12, 13, 17.

They are different in each of those chapters because those tell the status of the beast with 42 months to go (Chapter 13), 7 years to go (Chapter 12), and first century (Chapter 13).

From that you would know that Revelation 12:6 is the first half of the seven years, and not sometime when Simon Bar Kokhba was around.

Hey, I have studied this material for over 40 years and have prayed to God that he would open the understanding thereof. I am 65. You are a beginner, a student in college according to your profile. You are doing pretty good - even if you are off by a long shot...:)

We should not build any doctrine abut The Beast on Yeshua's statement in the Olivite Discourse about there being many "False Christ" who will "come in my name". Because those are what Chuck Missler likes to call the "non signs" they went on back then and their already happening again now.
The Antichrist is not simply a false christs. He is the one specific person who will become the illicit King of Israel, son of David messiah - someone to actually take that office for a short while. No-one has ever done that.

For one thing, Israel the unified nation has not existed since the time of Solomon, for anyone to be King of Israel.

What the term "Antichrist" itself means is a factor. I keep seeing scholars say it can mean "in-place of Christ" and thus be effective a synonym for Pseudochrist (False Christ). But this doesn't hold up under scrutiny. Strongs says it means "the adversary of the Messiah".
Of course the Antichrist is the adversary of Jesus, the true messiah. He has to be in order to think of himself in that role.

At any rate only one of the four verses where John used this word in his first and second epistles had The Antichrist in mind, 2:18. I've often wondered if the term should in fact apply to The Second Beast rather then the first, but that's incidental.
The one you need to focus in on is where it says - "you have heard antichrist shall come". Where would they have already heard that if not what Jesus said to Nicodemus?

1John2:
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
 
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MithrandirOlorin888

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The Prince of Tyre is the literal human ruler, the "Melek" is Satan. Same with Isaiah 14, the human ruler and Helel Ben Shachar are linked.

Today there are lots of nominal Christians who profess to be Christian only because of family history.

I didn't not link Bar Kochba to anything in Revelation, only John 5:43. I'm not a Preterist.

Why is he Conquering Israel in Daniel 11:36-45 if he's a Jewish leader?
 
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Interplanner

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Mith,
the material of Dan 8 & 9 have to do with the Jewish war/revolt of the mid 1st century. That's why the time stamp is 490 years.

On your last question, the revolutionaries in Judaism were both trying to do some freedom fighting for Israel and trying to get rid of the priesthood that was comfortable with Herod's temple and its contradictions. They wanted to enforce the law very sharply; the Pharisees actually fed this. They wanted to enforce the law because they believed they would have God's help for their other concern: battle with Rome. That's where the fighting with Israel comes in to factor. To purify it.
 
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Douggg

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The Prince of Tyre is the literal human ruler, the "Melek" is Satan. Same with Isaiah 14, the human ruler and Helel Ben Shachar are linked.

The prince of tyre is a code name for the Antichrist. It is not talking about the literal prince of tyre (first half of Ezekiel 28) and the literal king of tyrus (second half of Ezekiel 38). It is talking about the Antichrist and Satan.

Why the two in the same chapter? Because when the Antichrist reveals himself to being the man of sin, he will be temporarily entered into by Satan like Judas was to carry out the act. Earning he and Judas the moniker of son of perdition.

In 2thessalonians2:
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In Ezekiel 28:

2 Son of man, say unto the prince of Tyrus, Thus saith the Lord God; Because thine heart is lifted up, and thou hast said, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God:
Keep in mind the Antichrist will have huge ego. That is why, even before he gets convinced that he has reached God-hood, he will fancy himself to the Jewish messiah; not because God chose him, but because he will think of himself in that manner, i.e. coming in his own name.

So what gets him to think that he has achieved (his heart lifted up) God-hood? It is because he uses the occult to achieve wealth and power.

3 Behold, thou art wiser than Daniel; there is no secret that they can hide from thee:
What secrets? Below in Daniel 8:23, he has the ability to understanding dark sentences secret understandings; in other words he will be into the occult practicing occultic ceremonies)

In Daniel 8, as the Antichrist rises on his way to becoming thought of as the Jewish messiah....
23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up.
24 And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. (he taps into the dark side for power, the fallen angels, Satan)

25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
(he advances by way of the occult, again magnify himself in his heart , Ezekiel 28:2, lifting himself up thinking he has achieved God-hood near the middle of the 7 years. Which at that pivotal time, convinced that he has achieved God-hood, by way of his occult practices, goes into the temple and reveals himself as the man of sin, showing the world that he is God.)

God's reaction? God, in Ezekiel 28, has him killed. Not just killed but killed in the manner of the uncircumcised - which is a put down, because the Antichrist will be a Jew.
6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;
7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.
8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee.
10 Thou shalt die the deaths of the uncircumcised by the hand of strangers: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord God.
So in Isaiah 14, the slain man of sin, who temporarily entered into by Satan and entered the temple claiming to be God, finds himself in hell and mocked.

15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
16 They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the manthat made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;
17 That made the world as a wilderness, and destroyed the cities thereof; that opened not the house of his prisoners?
18 All the kings of the nations, even all of them, lie in glory, every one in his own house.
19 But thou art cast out of thy grave like an abominable branch, and as the raiment of those that are slain, thrust through with a sword, that go down to the stones of the pit; as a carcase trodden under feet.
20 Thou shalt not be joined with them in burial, because thou hast destroyed thy land, and slain thy people: the seed of evildoers shall never be renowned.


Isaiah 14, the first few verses in the taunt, is as much about Satan's participation of convincing the Antichrist that he is God, and God beginning the long awaited prosecution of Satan as all this takes place near the middle of the seven years.


Heyal (I hope I am spelling that right.) was a babylonian god who they saw Venus, the brightess star to still show in the Morning, which Jerome in the Latin Vulgate coined the term Lucifer, as the bright and morning star, which stuck by Christian tradition as a name for Satan.

Nonetheless, the point being that Satan in entering into the man of sin, will be Satan carrying out his own agenda in acting out his desire to rise above God.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
Today there are lots of nominal Christians who profess to be Christian only because of family history.
Agreed, but they don't say the God of their fathers. The God of their fathers is a reference to the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
That's what the Jews say of God.

Why is he Conquering Israel in Daniel 11:36-45 if he's a Jewish leader?
The Antichrist will already have his EU army in the middle east controlling the oil, which is why the beast out of the sea in Revelation 13, with 42 months to go, has the composite of the other three historic beasts. The beast out of the sea, the EU end times version of the Roman Empire will have gained control over the territories of the former 3 historic empires.

When the battles in Daniel 11:36-45 take place, those are near the end of the seven years. imo, the battles will take place because the Antichrist and his western power base, the EU, will be hogging the dwindling resources of water and oil, as God pours out his judgments on the world.

The other three sectors of the world, the nations of the south, north, and east will attack him - to free up the oil and water for their survival, disillusioned by his claim of being God.

The purpose as far as bringing matters to finality, will be to draw all nations into the middle east. So those battles are going to flow back and forth over the entire middle east. With the Antichrist's army first heading off an attack from the southern nations, then the norther nations see what is taking place and decide to team up and attack the Antichrist-beast from that direction. So he will have to swing part of his army back through Israel, to stave off the attack from the north.

And the Antichrist will be winning because in Daniel 8, it says he can't be broken by hand. Then he gets news out of the east, which is the kings of the East in Revelation 16, joining in the attack against the Antichrist-beast and his army.

At that point, with his command headquarters camped near Jerusalem - the events of Revelation 6, the sixth seal, take place, and the heavens part and the wicked men of the earth, see Jesus on his throne, sickle in hand, which there will be no doubt of his intentions. That's when they galvanize under the Antichrist beast, who they had been battling, and unite to try and stop Jesus from returning.
 
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tranquil

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The Antichrist will be a Gentile, that's what rising out of the Sea means. No Verse about the Antichrist says the Jews will accept him as their Messiah.

He might attempt to claim he's Messiah Ben-Ephraim, but only using the British Israleism/Britam version of that figure. The Jordanian royal family has intermingles with British aristocracy.

The idea of the Antichrist being a supposed Jewish Messiah claimant is absurd, all the Old Testament references to him clearly define him as an enemy of Israel. When the Abomination happens the Jews will entirely reject him.

To start with, Dan 8's 2300 days is about the end times. (Dan 8:17)

The "as it was in the days of Noah" days are the 5 months of Genesis 8 (Noah and the flood - from the 2nd month 17th day until Sukkot/ Feast of Tabernacles) - the same 5 months of Trumpet 5.

In Trumpet 6, it is "1 year, 1 month, 1 day, 1 hour" (year of recompense for Zion, 1 month to dismiss the 3 shepherds, 1 day of the Lord, 1 hour of trial).

Then the 3rd Temple is given over to the Gentiles for 42 months. Then the 2 witnesses lie dead for 3.5 days. This progression is described from Rev 9:1 through 11:15, which is the 1st woe thru the end of the 2nd woe.

Then add the implied 70 literal weeks of Dan 9 to get 2300 days.

Since we know that Dan 9 is part of the end times (don't let the preterists fool you), let's read the other 20+ verses that get no attention:

In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; 2 In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.
3 And I set my face unto the Lord God, to seek by prayer and supplications, with fasting, and sackcloth, and ashes:
4 And I prayed unto the Lord my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
5 We have sinned, and have committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments:
6 Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land.
7 O Lord, righteousness belongeth unto thee, but unto us confusion of faces, as at this day; to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and unto all Israel, that are near, and that are far off, through all the countries whither thou hast driven them, because of their trespass that they have trespassed against thee.
8 O Lord, to us belongeth confusion of face, to our kings, to our princes, and to our fathers, because we have sinned against thee.
9 To the Lord our God belong mercies and forgivenesses, though we have rebelled against him;
10 Neither have we obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in his laws, which he set before us by his servants the prophets.
11 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him.
12 And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem.

13As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth.

14 Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice.
15 And now, O Lord our God, that hast brought thy people forth out of the land of Egypt with a mighty hand, and hast gotten thee renown, as at this day; we have sinned, we have done wickedly.
16 O Lord, according to all thy righteousness, I beseech thee, let thine anger and thy fury be turned away from thy city Jerusalem, thy holy mountain: because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and thy people are become a reproach to all that are about us.
17 Now therefore, O our God, hear the prayer of thy servant, and his supplications, and cause thy face to shine upon thy sanctuary that is desolate, for the Lord's sake.
18 O my God, incline thine ear, and hear; open thine eyes, and behold our desolations, and the city which is called by thy name: for we do not present our supplications before thee for our righteousnesses, but for thy great mercies.
19 O Lord, hear; O Lord, forgive; O Lord, hearken and do; defer not, for thine own sake, O my God: for thy city and thy people are called by thy name.
20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God;
21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.
22 And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, O Daniel, I am now come forth to give thee skill and understanding.
23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
Verse 13 is referring to Deuteronomy 28 Deuteronomy 28 - Blessings for Obedience - If you fully - Bible Gateway

The 1260 days of the Gentiles control of the temple is when Israel "rebels against God"/ the "falling away"/ apostasy. This is what Daniel is repenting of in this chapter - Israel's acceptance of a "foreign god". (Of course, it hardly seems worth mentioning that not all will accept this, but most will.)

For more reference to this 70 week period in the future, we can see in Dan 7

11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.
13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.
14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.
That "season and a time" is the Dan 9 70 weeks prophecy / 490 days. 1st the Daniel 7 little horn, the 11th horn rules for 1260 days, then God kills him and destroys Jerusalem. The disillusionment of Israel is caused by their king being killed and Jerusalems destruction, and causes their repentant attitude of Dan 9.

The "other beasts" are ruled by the Dan 8 little horn, the one from the NW (sailing NW right past and through Rome is ... Great Britain) who comes out of the 4 fragments, the one who takes away the daily sacrifices. Dan 7's little horn only fights the saints, whereas the Dan 8 little horn fights against Christ (Dan 8:25).
 
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tranquil

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You do realize that those kingdoms did constitute the known world according to the authors of scripture, right? That's the whole point. That's also why scholarship is important because we need to understand and consider things like context.

You do realize that those kingdoms are merely representative of 4 end time kingdoms that emerge from the whole world, right?

Dan 7
16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things.
17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.
The 4 beasts start out as "from the sea" and then in the explanation, they are said to be "from the earth". Earth is H772, corresponding to H776; the earth; by implication (figuratively) low: - earth, inferior.
H776 being "From an unused root probably meaning to be firm; the earth (at large, or partitively a land): - X common, country, earth, field, ground, land, X nations, way, + wilderness, world."

Contextually, it seems fairly straightforward that the "sea" is the template and the 4 beasts actually come out of the whole world.


That's also why scholarship is important because we need to understand and consider things like context.
 
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Douggg

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The King of Babylon isn't the Antichrist, the Beast wages war against Babylon, read Revelation 9.

If you are referring to the taunt of Isaiah 14 to the King of Babylon - the taunt isn't intended for him. It is intended for Satan and the Antichrist.

The Beast does not wage war against Babylon in any bible verse. Babylon is not in Revelation 9. The Beast is not in Revelation 9.
 
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Dunbar

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That the first is Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar is indisputable in Daniel 2.

The head of gold is identified as Nebuchadnezzar who is a type of Satan in the last days. The lion of chap. 7 which corresponds to the head of gold has his wings plucked; is made to stand on his feet as a man and is given a man's heart. Please explain how the kingdom of ancient Babylon has it's wings plucked, stands on it's feet like a man and is given a man's heart? These characteristics do not fit with ancient Babylon but do fit with Satan who will be transformed into a man or the false Christ. Isa. 14 and Eze. 28 which both describe Satan refer to him as a man who made the earth to tremble and did shake kingdoms.
 
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Dunbar

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Read Revelation 17, that tells us who wages War on Babylon.

Being Given a New heart is an idium of being Saved, read Daniel 4. All of the fouding Kings of the first 3 are saved and will be in the Millennium.

Nope, wrong again. Chapter 4 is also symbolic of the last days. Zebuchadnezzar is given the heart of a beast and made to dwell in the field until seven times pass over him. So in like manner Satan will be given the heart of a man and will begin his seven year reign as the antichrist. Almost every theme in Revelation draws on stories from the OT prophets.
 
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MithrandirOlorin888

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If your denying that Daniel 4 tell us Nebuchadnezer is a Saved individual, that's Blasphemous to me. That's a Historical chapter, any typological significance it has is secondary.

The Beast and Satan are distinct personages. There is no evidence Satan ever indwells in him. Satan simply gives him his power and authority, just like he offered to give to Jesus.
 
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Dunbar

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If your denying that Daniel 4 tell us Nebuchadnezer is a Saved individual, that's Blasphemous to me. That's a Historical chapter, any typological significance it has is secondary.

The Beast and Satan are distinct personages. There is no evidence Satan ever indwells in him. Satan simply gives him his power and authority, just like he offered to give to Jesus.

Given the heart of a man is not the same as the new birth, come on. When Satan comes as the false Christ he will praise the God of heaven too and set up his image to the beast. If you read Daniel chap. 2 closely, Daniel says the vision is for the latter days. Ancient Babylon did not exist in the latter days.
 
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