How Many Folks Here Are Prepared to Ride Out 3 Months of No Stores/Gas Stations Open?

Glass*Soul

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I doubt it even 50 years ago. Unless you are in Amish country. Otherwise they were likely using tractors, chainsaws and other modern gas driven devices. Oh and if they irrigate the odds are it relies on general infrastructure.

And if they were not using horses to plow I'd bet they don't have the equipment even if they do have the horses. And while I can do leatherwork I can no more set rivets that I do not have than I could make bricks without straw. (And while I have 100s of rivets most are not suitable for the stress of a harness. I do have some copper rivets that are up to that task, all 8 of them, not even close to enough for one harness. Oh and I don't have the plans for a harness, with the right supplies and one harness to copy I could make a second, but with no first...)

Actually, it is Amish country and even some of the non-Amish still used plows and horses fifty years ago and had working outhouses and wells. Some old grandmas cooked on wood stoves. The bones of a non-industrial society were still present. No more though.
 
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RDKirk

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That works fine if one is fleeing from a disaster area to a non-disaster area. If everywhere is a disaster area, the welcome may not be quite so...welcoming. The entire community may come to feel they have a say in how many outsiders can come in. Letting in outsiders may destabilize a rural community that is barely going to manage to feed its own as it is. When you're debating whether to leave your own addled grandma to the elements so your kids can have sufficient food, the fact that an outsider is someone's second cousin isn't going to cut it.

The OP is talking about a localized and limited catastrophe, not dissimilar to a natural disaster or a significant terrorist attack.

Now, I gave you a real-world example of planning that was actually carried out successfully. I can also tell you about the planning we did in the Strategic Air Command for an all-out nuclear war. But that level of commitment is certainly beyond the means of a single family--you would need a relatively large group willing to expend continuous money to maintain a secluded large hide-out community. You'd probably have to rotate people annually to live and maintain the facility...which is what SAC did.
 
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ManFromUncle

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A year before the Katrina hurricane, Mormons in the New Orleans area prepared evacuation plans for just such an occurrence. In their plans, they actually identified who every New Orleans Mormon was to ride with to leave the city, and exactly where each was to go--to what Mormon household outside the area he would find a place to live.

So if someone is going to be truly prepared for evacuation, he should have someone waiting to receive hem outside the city.

I'm sure that part of the plan was for the Mormons evacuating to pack as much of their stored food as they could, to lessen the burden for the receiving family. A trunk loaded with suitcases of canned food would get a warm welcome.
 
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ManFromUncle

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We're a household with a big amount of handguns in a society where almost no one except the military and police is allowed to own them.

I'm sure we will be fine. :)

The Walmart shelves got cleaned out of Bushmasters AR-15s overnight after Sandy Hook gun grabbing, 3 million more out there now. Americans are armed to the teeth LOL.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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You know, I looked at the title of this thread and expected to be amused by some nonsense...but generally speaking this is all sound advice. Only thing that I would add is anyone expecting to be able to trade gold or silver (coins, jewelry) will likely be disappointed at the results. No one in their right mind would trade necessities like food or ammo for precious metals.

This is actually something I've always wondered...

You hear some people rave about the idea of buying and keeping gold in case there's ever a severe market crash based on the idea that it will somehow retain value when the dollar completely fails. I'm always wondering what people are expecting to do with that gold?

Gold, like anything else, is only worth what someone will give you for it...and if food and water are scarce, I highly doubt anyone will give you anything for it. (as you referenced)
 
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ManFromUncle

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This is actually something I've always wondered...

You hear some people rave about the idea of buying and keeping gold in case there's ever a severe market crash based on the idea that it will somehow retain value when the dollar completely fails. I'm always wondering what people are expecting to do with that gold?

Gold, like anything else, is only worth what someone will give you for it...and if food and water are scarce, I highly doubt anyone will give you anything for it. (as you referenced)

Anyone with a closets or a basement full of canned food and five gallon jugs of water has bought themselves currency which will be tradeable when even gold is worthless, because you can't eat it or use it for anything. Someone will have first aid supplies, salt, candles, whatever, and while they might not take gold for it, they'll take food. If everyone buys loads of canned food, which keeps forever, the worst crisis is averted. Then gradually people learn to grow again, old skills like home canning. This is how we save ourselves from the bankers and the FEMA camps they have planned for us. There is a surplus of people. They want to cut it down drastically.
 
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ManFromUncle

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The OP is talking about a localized and limited catastrophe, not dissimilar to a natural disaster or a significant terrorist attack.

Now, I gave you a real-world example of planning that was actually carried out successfully. I can also tell you about the planning we did in the Strategic Air Command for an all-out nuclear war. But that level of commitment is certainly beyond the means of a single family--you would need a relatively large group willing to expend continuous money to maintain a secluded large hide-out community. You'd probably have to rotate people annually to live and maintain the facility...which is what SAC did.

Word is Putin is going to start dumping dollars. If that happens, all bets are off. Prepare for a currency collapse and hyperinflation. Just today an article tried to explain why the price of orange juice went up so much. They are trying to keep us calm. Best store food for a year, especially cans, while you can afford it and while the stores are open. The more we store now, the less we suffer later. If we are wrong, so what. You can eat it.
 
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keith99

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This is actually something I've always wondered...

You hear some people rave about the idea of buying and keeping gold in case there's ever a severe market crash based on the idea that it will somehow retain value when the dollar completely fails. I'm always wondering what people are expecting to do with that gold?

Gold, like anything else, is only worth what someone will give you for it...and if food and water are scarce, I highly doubt anyone will give you anything for it. (as you referenced)

That is why I'm stockpiling quality booze.
 
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gamewell45

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How Many Folks Here Are Prepared to Ride Out 3 Months of No Stores/Gas Stations Open? | Peace . Gold . LOVE

Just curious, don't know how many country folk versus city folk here, but if something struck like a Hurricane Sandy in the heart of the city as well as country, how many folks have enough food, water to get by if it was a huge mess and electricity was out, water systems were down, and all the stores closed? Say, 2-3 months. Some places in NYC still had no lights a month after. That's the heart of New York and people are sitting in the dark guarding their apartment lobbies.

If you are smart you can be quite well prepared for an investment of a few hundred dollars per adult.

I have found that it is the easiest thing in the world by buy enough canned goods for each person to eat for three months, if you shop smart. Beans and canned veggies are cheap by the box, and it would be boring, but it would give you all you need, combined with, say, a half dozen boxes of powered milk to sprinkle in for complete protein and vitamins, and/or powered eggs, also cheap as heck in bulk at Walmart.

Water: You can't assume you will always be able to drink what's coming out of the tap, if you are on a town water system. That's what terrorists would go for, and if it gets polluted you need a way to purify it. You will die for lack of water long before lack of food. You also need to brush your teeth and try to keep clean. For starters I just filled plain old filled empty gallon jugs from the tap, and stacked them like a layer cake, with plywood being the frosting between the layers, in a closet. A gallon a day per person is a good number, so for a two month plan, for a family of 3, that would 100 gallons. For longer term I have done all the research and Berkey water filters win, the best you can afford. It's an investment in peace of mind. The good ones don't just take out bacteria, but also heavy metals, solvents, and other chemicals. You could put polluted river water by the factory in it and drink it out the other end.

Next the elements. If you are a city slicker in a cold place, what will you do if the heat goes out, and no electricity for a space heater? Your oil/fuel could run out. The first line of defense is lots good blankets, wool or down, and clothes. An arctic sleeping bag rated for for 0-20 degreesF runs from $60 on up, and you can fit a kid apiece in one of these with you. For more kids about one per 2 kids will do.

Big Berkey water filter, 4-16 people
big-berkey.jpg


The kind of worksuits construction or road workers wear outside in the winter are another way to stay warm with no heat.

If you want to try heating inside, the safest way is an alcohol stove. You can make one out of paint cans, and buy denatured alcohol in bulk the same place you get heating oil. You can boil water and cook with these too.

Kerosene heaters are another solution, but you'll need to store lots of kerosene and it's expensive. They need ventilation. You cannot store kerosene in an apartment. They can be dangerous around little kids. On the other hand a kerosene heater will warm up a space in no time, at which point you can conserve the heat by taping off a smaller part of a room with plastic, like your sleeping quarters, and getting up warm enough to bed down comfortably then hunkering down, conserving the heat. YOU MUST HAVE IMMEDIATE VENTILATION, AT LEAST ONE WINDOW. Kerosene gives off a low level of carbon monoxide.

You need all that only if you are in a bitter clime in the winter. Otherwise you go back to old days and wear lots of clothes. Just get used to the fact you won't be padding around in your slippers and jammies till spring.

Food, water, the elements. Those are the big three. Remember food won't keep when your fridge has no electricity, which is why cans is the best strategy. For long term 20 lb. bags of rice and bags of dried beans will give you a lot of food, but now you have to have a cooking set-up, and enough water to use it for cooking. I'd throw in a couple of 20 lb. bags of rice and equivalent beans for safety, any food will be worth gold in barter. Over a long term you can solve how you are going to cook it. REMEMBER, YOU CAN SPROUT RICE AND BEANS IF ITS ORGANIC, (LIVE, MOST COMMERCIAL GRAINS ARE NOT.) That means eat with no cooking. This is one of the best kept secrets in our Walmart, GMO society. Just keep it in old coffee cans or other airtight storage. The 20 lb bags of rice at Walmart are ok in the thick-gauge plastic.

What else? This is where it gets fun. Use your brain to come up with the thing other people didn't. A good list of basics is here:

- Fifths of hard alcohol, even if you don't drink. It will be like currency, and buy you ammo or even a rifle from a neighbor who's got extra. Also it cleans a wound.

- Antibiotics in case of wound infection. When the hospitals are closed or overflowing, you cannot afford an infected cut which will only get worse.

- Guns and ammo

- iodine, also sterilizes a wound, also kills bacteria in water. If you have a fast stream at high altitude, away from development, a few drops of iodine is probably all you need to make it drinkable. Always scout upstream as far as you can for animal carcasses. The closer to snow melt, the better.

- sulfur. Has many uses.

- Big sheets of plastic. You will find uses.

- Duct tape ha ha! The single most all-purpose invention in the world.

- matches, lighters, a flint and steel, steel wool in case you need to start fires the old way (can anyone find a good youtube here?)

- hand-wind, rechargeable flashlights

- lots of spices so you won't die of boredom from the canned food if the zombies don't get you. Also some spices are healthful and keep your immune system strong, like turmeric.

- seeds

- sea salt, iodized salt.

- first aid kit.

- toothpaste, soap, baking soda stockpile.

- multi-vitamins

- toilet paper/paper towels

- Bibles. Mere survival is not enough. Spiritual life and moral instruction is more important than ever now.

Three months is not long in the real prepper world, but everyone doing this will take the panicked edge off as communities figure out what to do. Store a year's worth of dried rice and beans. If we must rebuild society, and we have seeds, we'll need cool heads and a little time to work with.

Ideas comment welcomed!

Stewart Rhodes, President of Oath Keepers, Legal Scholar Yale Law School, "How to Prepare Your Community for Disaster"
[youtube]6LHpK3CnObs[/youtube]

Article: Oath Keepers Community Preparedness

The Ugly, Scene from Cormac McCarthy's The Road
[youtube]6E0pEul0Xf8[/youtube]

I have no worries; the good Lord will provide should he so desire.
 
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Nithavela

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Word is Putin is going to start dumping dollars. If that happens, all bets are off. Prepare for a currency collapse and hyperinflation. Just today an article tried to explain why the price of orange juice went up so much. They are trying to keep us calm. Best store food for a year, especially cans, while you can afford it and while the stores are open. The more we store now, the less we suffer later. If we are wrong, so what. You can eat it.

This message brought to you by the national canned foods industry.
 
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Annabel Lee

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I'm probably more prepared than the average person, but it is an ongoing process with me.
Living in southern California, my number 1 priority is water. Including a 55 gallon water storage container, I have well over 120 gallons. If I manage to get the bathtub bob filled before the water pressure is gone, I have 80 to 100 gallons more.
Food...easily 3 months or more. Freeze dried, store canned, self canned and dried food stored in mylar.
A decent medical emergency kit (still need to add to it)
A small inverter with two solar panels, hurricane lanterns, a case of emergency candles, emergency radio which can be charged by solar or a hand crank.
etc etc.
I still need to start a garden. Maybe this weekend.
 
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LostMarbels

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I have been prepping for years now. Not so much for the end of the world or the zombie apocalypse. Living in Florida; my preparations have been more for hurricanes, tornadoes, flashfloods, and fuel/power shortages. As vehicles go, I my self own, and suggest old school mechanical diesel's as a must have. By " old school mechanical" I mean no EFI or electrical fuel pumps etc. My Dodge d250 has a mechanical lift pump (on the block, not in tank, makes it easily changed 2 bolts 2 screws 5 minutes) and a internaly gear driven fuel pump. Since a diesel is not dependent on electricity to create spark for ignition, it gives 2 distinct advantages. Better water fording capabilities, since nothing electrical is making contact with the water, and since no electricity is need to run a diesel there is nothing to fry in such a situation as an emp. Also.... no battery required. I can simply use a 1/2" socket 3' breaker bar to crank the engine from the fly wheel. since the lift pump is ran from the cam, and the fuel pump from internal gearing, it usually only takes 3 or 4 turns of the engine before it comes roaring to life. Then just flip the manual run away lever to kill the engine when done. The other great feature is that diesels run on any combustible fuel source. I have ran my truck on strait vegetable oil (every kind from soy to used).... even tiki lamp oil, and paraffin lamp oil. One fun thing Ive learned in a natural disaster is vegetable oil and paint thinner don't exactly fly off the selves when a hurricane is about to, or has hit. Also nobody even blinks twice when I go to a Sam's club and purchase two hundred gallons of vegetable oil. I need a permit to store gas and/or diesel. Another cool aftermarket trinket is my transfer case with a PTO, and the ability to not only have a worm gear driven winch on my front bumper, but to also be able to run my PTO driven 13 kw generator. It easily has enough power to run my entire home, is completely portable, and since it only requires 24 HP @ 540 RPM my engine has the power to run it at idle. (and on vegetable oil) I only have about 8 grand invested in my truck. Which is far cheaper than most full house generators (mine was only $1400) and I have awesome, very capable truck to boot.

Another one of my investments was a 250 gal Chlorine contact tank (kill tank) for my well. These tanks are originally intended to give a choline system time to allow the chlorine to mix with raw water, making it treated, before it is filtered. However I placed the tank on my clean side after softening, and filtration. I placed a spigot on the top of the tank, and one at the bottom. By doing so, I can open the top spigot to allow air flow so the bottom spigot will pour. An by placing the tank on the clean side of my well, as water is used in my home by passing thru the tank, I am assuring that I will always have an emergency supply of 250 gallons of freshly treated, potable water. I only spent like $320 on the tank and hardware. Would easily fit in a garage.

In case I run out of water. I personally own a Big Berkey, and have drank water directly out of a drainage retention ditch with it. Tasted great.

My go to site is this for emergency supplies:

Survival Gear - Survival Central

As far as currency.... I have horded tobacco, alcohol (distilled spirits), and medicinal supplies. All of which can be stored for decades. All of which will have a bartering value in an emergency. Also, not having simple things like alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, burn cream, ibuprofen, and what have you is just not being prepared. Those who are in need of such things will barter for them.

I have 6 months of MRE's for the 5 people in my family. We also know how to hunt with bows as a family. Even my wife knows how to dress wild game. An sadly.... she is a much better shot. I will not admit that one again. ;)

One of the biggest things I've seen people neglect is hygiene. I have toiletries, feminine products, soap, shampoo/conditioner, hand cleaner, tooth brushes, waterless washing clothes, and even deodorant in medium sized tackle box behind the front seat of my truck. A couple of packs of most wipes take less room than toilet paper, and are more hygienic at getting you clean in an area you can not bathe. Hygiene is important.

We also each have a bug out bag that has 4 sets of clothes, sleeping gear, and things necessary to live outdoors to say for example our home is destroyed in a hurricane. All in water proof, air tight bags. I own a eight man 4 season expedition rated base camp tent for us to live in if necessary. All the gear to go with it. Like stoves, and such.

My one flaw is that I am almost entirely dependent on my truck for most of my niceties. Most of my gear is in the left hand side utility boxes of my truck. Including the 48 lbs tent. If I was to lose my truck, I would be forced to leave a lot behind. We could survive, but not as comfortably.
 
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geetrue

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I had two gallons of water and a few cans of chili for the y2k event, but it's all gone now.

Do ya'll make allowances for your neighbors not having enough?
Are you willing to share or would you be afraid of running out?
Do you know of any churches that preach being ready and follow that up with shipping containers full of everything you need?
 
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PreachersWife2004

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I am well informed on this by NBC's Revolution. I know that despite lack of electricity or running water for many years, I will still be able to wear custom fit, clean jeans, t-shirts and boots, and my hair will be perfect no matter that I have to sleep underground and I'm always running around killing people. So, really, what more do I need to know?

Same thing with CBS' Jericho. Great show, but the fact that these people had great hair kinda ruined it.
 
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ManFromUncle

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I have been prepping for years now. Not so much for the end of the world or the zombie apocalypse. Living in Florida; my preparations have been more for hurricanes, tornadoes, flashfloods, and fuel/power shortages. As vehicles go, I my self own, and suggest old school mechanical diesel's as a must have. By " old school mechanical" I mean no EFI or electrical fuel pumps etc. My Dodge d250 has a mechanical lift pump (on the block, not in tank, makes it easily changed 2 bolts 2 screws 5 minutes) and a internaly gear driven fuel pump. Since a diesel is not dependent on electricity to create spark for ignition, it gives 2 distinct advantages. Better water fording capabilities, since nothing electrical is making contact with the water, and since no electricity is need to run a diesel there is nothing to fry in such a situation as an emp. Also.... no battery required. I can simply use a 1/2" socket 3' breaker bar to crank the engine from the fly wheel. since the lift pump is ran from the cam, and the fuel pump from internal gearing, it usually only takes 3 or 4 turns of the engine before it comes roaring to life. Then just flip the manual run away lever to kill the engine when done. The other great feature is that diesels run on any combustible fuel source. I have ran my truck on strait vegetable oil (every kind from soy to used).... even tiki lamp oil, and paraffin lamp oil. One fun thing Ive learned in a natural disaster is vegetable oil and paint thinner don't exactly fly off the selves when a hurricane is about to, or has hit. Also nobody even blinks twice when I go to a Sam's club and purchase two hundred gallons of vegetable oil. I need a permit to store gas and/or diesel. Another cool aftermarket trinket is my transfer case with a PTO, and the ability to not only have a worm gear driven winch on my front bumper, but to also be able to run my PTO driven 13 kw generator. It easily has enough power to run my entire home, is completely portable, and since it only requires 24 HP @ 540 RPM my engine has the power to run it at idle. (and on vegetable oil) I only have about 8 grand invested in my truck. Which is far cheaper than most full house generators (mine was only $1400) and I have awesome, very capable truck to boot.

Another one of my investments was a 250 gal Chlorine contact tank (kill tank) for my well. These tanks are originally intended to give a choline system time to allow the chlorine to mix with raw water, making it treated, before it is filtered. However I placed the tank on my clean side after softening, and filtration. I placed a spigot on the top of the tank, and one at the bottom. By doing so, I can open the top spigot to allow air flow so the bottom spigot will pour. An by placing the tank on the clean side of my well, as water is used in my home by passing thru the tank, I am assuring that I will always have an emergency supply of 250 gallons of freshly treated, potable water. I only spent like $320 on the tank and hardware. Would easily fit in a garage.

In case I run out of water. I personally own a Big Berkey, and have drank water directly out of a drainage retention ditch with it. Tasted great.

My go to site is this for emergency supplies:

Survival Gear - Survival Central

As far as currency.... I have horded tobacco, alcohol (distilled spirits), and medicinal supplies. All of which can be stored for decades. All of which will have a bartering value in an emergency. Also, not having simple things like alcohol, hydrogen peroxide, burn cream, ibuprofen, and what have you is just not being prepared. Those who are in need of such things will barter for them.

I have 6 months of MRE's for the 5 people in my family. We also know how to hunt with bows as a family. Even my wife knows how to dress wild game. An sadly.... she is a much better shot. I will not admit that one again. ;)

One of the biggest things I've seen people neglect is hygiene. I have toiletries, feminine products, soap, shampoo/conditioner, hand cleaner, tooth brushes, waterless washing clothes, and even deodorant in medium sized tackle box behind the front seat of my truck. A couple of packs of most wipes take less room than toilet paper, and are more hygienic at getting you clean in an area you can not bathe. Hygiene is important.

We also each have a bug out bag that has 4 sets of clothes, sleeping gear, and things necessary to live outdoors to say for example our home is destroyed in a hurricane. All in water proof, air tight bags. I own a eight man 4 season expedition rated base camp tent for us to live in if necessary. All the gear to go with it. Like stoves, and such.

My one flaw is that I am almost entirely dependent on my truck for most of my niceties. Most of my gear is in the left hand side utility boxes of my truck. Including the 48 lbs tent. If I was to lose my truck, I would be forced to leave a lot behind. We could survive, but not as comfortably.

This one is pure gold thanks will study. The way I see it prepping can be just one of those fun hobbies that is harmless but could actually mean something someday. No kid or grandkid is going to fault gramps for leaving them fully prepared for anything. It may be the ultimate act of love.
 
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keith99

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Anyone in a urban environment thinking any of this is going to make a significant difference if things drag out for 3 months is an idiot.

That is unless it is a cultural thing and everyone in the area is prepared.

And personally I do not see a significant chance of anything lasting 3 months. The national guard will be in and relief provided in 2 weeks, 4 max or things have gone totally south and there will be no relief, no end, it will be a rebuild from scratch. And if the latter you had better know how to make herbal medicines, gather and process seeds for next years crops and preservation methods that do not depend on rubber seals on jars.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Anyone in a urban environment thinking any of this is going to make a significant difference if things drag out for 3 months is an idiot.

That is unless it is a cultural thing and everyone in the area is prepared.

And personally I do not see a significant chance of anything lasting 3 months. The national guard will be in and relief provided in 2 weeks, 4 max or things have gone totally south and there will be no relief, no end, it will be a rebuild from scratch. And if the latter you had better know how to make herbal medicines, gather and process seeds for next years crops and preservation methods that do not depend on rubber seals on jars.

This is pretty much why my husband is studying carpentry and basic food prep and home remedies. We could have a million things stored up, but realistically, that won't matter unless there's more to be had.
 
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BigDaddy4

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Anyone in a urban environment thinking any of this is going to make a significant difference if things drag out for 3 months is an idiot.

That is unless it is a cultural thing and everyone in the area is prepared.

And personally I do not see a significant chance of anything lasting 3 months. The national guard will be in and relief provided in 2 weeks, 4 max or things have gone totally south and there will be no relief, no end, it will be a rebuild from scratch. And if the latter you had better know how to make herbal medicines, gather and process seeds for next years crops and preservation methods that do not depend on rubber seals on jars.


I find the idea of "prepping" somewhat humorous. The main reason is, if something truly apocolyptic or a major disaster happened in your area, what is the likelihood that your place of residence would survive? All that "prepping" gone to waste. And, as you pointed out, relief agencies, National Guard, etc. would be there quickly to provide for you.

If they couldn't get there in a matter of hours or days, just think how huge that disaster had to have been to prevent them from reaching you. And if it was that major, would you or your food stuffs and supplies be in any condition to be of use?

Hurricanes Katrina, Sandy, etc - relief in a matter of hours. Homes (with "prepped" items) destroyed. People evacuated and provided food and shelter.

Same with earthquakes. Same with the Oso landslide and Mt. St. Helens eruption in my area of the country.

Do "preppers" really think a major disaster that wipes out normal everyday urban life as we know it will not affect their "prepping" in any way? I guess I just don't get it. Seems to be the vivid imaginations that sci-fi is made up of.
 
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