Where is the Sabbath truth from the scripture?

from scratch · Apr 9, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Truth or lie?
Does Gen 2:3 say that???

Carelessly taking Christ's statement out of context is obvious. If God's rested because He was finished creation, this cannot be mistaken for a sabbath made for man. So it's clear, that 'God's rest' and the sabbath are different events. It's reasonable to understand with that sabbath was was made for the children of Israel not MANKIND... (SDA embelishment)
It's obvious that your doctrines are based on controversial application with the scriptures.

Their doctrines aren't based on the Bible. They use the Bible to sound believable to the gullible.

VictorC · Apr 9, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Many churches and noteable individuals may confess that Sabbath was given at creation, but we can't find it anywhere in the scripture.
Please post it today or you have no evidence of what you believe about Sabbath.

If God said that Sabbath is a sign between Himself and the chidren of Israel, I dont expect to find Sabbath first given for everybody to keep.

Let's post God's word rather that spreading falsehood.

Most are familiar with the Sabbath's origin during the lifetime of Moses, and your allusion to Exodus 31:13 defines the Sabbath's limited jurisdiction accurately.

BobRyan said:
Then we need to read Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:11 in context. And when we do we will see the truth of what God said not only in Ex 20;11 but also in Mark 2:27.

I assume you're continuing to dispute the Biblical record with your theory of an origin for the Sabbath before Moses lived. However, your list of verses alleged to support your view simply don't show an origin of the Sabbath before Moses.

Genesis 2:1-3 wasn't the sabbath. It was God's rest, not 'made for man', and wasn't periodic as the Sabbath was.
Exodus 20:11 delineates two disparate events, and proves the Sabbath came sometime after the seventh day God rested. It is by necessity the impetus drawn on to ordain the result existed before the result did.
Mark 2:27 specifies in clear terms that the Sabbath wasn't made for God, and wasn't His rest.

You're already aware of these points from previous conversations. If you're going to argue for an origin of the Sabbath prior to the Law that ordained it, you should look for support for your thesis, rather than list verses that prove your argument is wrong.

Stryder06 · Apr 9, 2014

You guys are still going at it huh? I guess it was about time that they finally made a Sabbath sub forum

Cribstyl · Apr 10, 2014

Covenants contains both what God requires of men and what man can expect from God.

Knowing what God required of Adam is how we can know what was passed down to all men. Did God command Adam to keep a Sabbath?
We can always read it again and again, to know the facts. We can see what God said in creation is still ongoing today.

We can read what God required of Noah after the flood.
As with Adam God command man to be fruitful and multiply humans on the earth.
The fact that God commanded men to eat meat in contrast to the Adamic covenant means that God can and does make changes in His covenants.
God did mention that those who kill men will be killed.
Why was God silent about Sabbath keeping?

Pointing to clean and unclean animals in the ark, gives us Moses' perspective of what transpired in Noah's day. It does not give us liberty to create an idea about a priesthood who were sacrificing 'clean animals. The bible prove that God had chosen no other men except the Levites to serve as priests.Heb 7:13

Deut4 says plainly that the ten commandments are the words of the (Mosaic) covenant.

So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deut5 say clearly that this covenant was not made with the fathers before Moses.
How in God's green earth can I be convinced that people were keeping Sabbath and the ten commandments when the bible says they did not exist before they were given to Moses?
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
Reading Duet 4 and 5 we can read and understand what Moses made clear. He said "No other nation from day that God put man on the earth had such laws and

Cribstyl · Apr 10, 2014

LarryP2 said:
Hebrew linguists that have closely analyzed Genesis have concluded that Moses made great effort to ensure that the Sabbath would NOT be mistaken as a creation ordinance. Judaism has ALWAYS held that the Sabbath was given to them, and only them at Sinai. There is NO evidence that Noah, Adam, Abraham or any other of the Pre-Mosaic patriarchs kept the Sabbath, and yet God found them all approved.

Simply put, the preamble in Exodus spells it out clearly: The Mosaic law was given to the delivered Israelite slaves out of Egypt. Not Abraham. Not Isaac. Not Adam. Not Noah. Not Christians.

Cribstyl · Apr 11, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Many churches and noteable individuals may confess that Sabbath was given at creation, but we cant find it anywhere in the scripture.
Please post it today or you have no evidence of what you believe about Sabbath.

If God said that Sabbath is a sign between Himself and the chidren of Israel, I dont expect to find Sabbath first given for everybody to keep.

Let's post God's word rather that spreading falsehood.

Posting and reposting other sources than the bible, often undermines and contradict God's prophets. Who's report should we believe?

BobRyan and maco adds isolated texts to their commentary. The context of their scripture often have other lessons than their usage.

BobRyan · Apr 11, 2014

VictorC said:
Most are familiar with the Sabbath's origin during the lifetime of Moses,

As even the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of Faith, and D.L. Moody and pretty much all in the signature line - admit - the Sabbath begins in Eden not at Sinai.

And what is more the Ex 20:11 statement by God proves it.

As does this Mark 2:27 reference by Christ "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND and not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" speaking of the "making" of both - in Gen 1-2:3.

Thus we have the "Sabbath truth from Scripture" not only stated - but even find pro-Sunday sources admitting to the glaringly obvious fact regarding the origin for the Sabbath.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective Bible student.

in Christ,

Bob

LarryP2 · Apr 11, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Posting and reposting other sources than the bible, often undermines and contradict God's prophets. Who's report should we believe?

BobRyan and maco adds isolated texts to their commentary. The context of their scripture often have other lessons than their usage.

This is known as Seventh Day Adventist "Scripture Sculpting," except that does not accurately describe the theological horror. The Church is founded on Daniel 8:14. Daniel 8:14 can be seen as the overall "quilt" design. The "squares" of the "quilt" are isolated and obscure sentence fragments, and partial verses taken completely out of context, with fantastic leaps ("double and a half gainers" as Tom Wolfe would say) of logic providing the "stitching," which holds the whole astonishing conglomeration together. Rip out just one minor stitch, the whole unholy mess unravels. The "logic" of the entire mess goes like this:

False Prophecy of 1843 and 1844 based solely on Daniel 8:14. God held his hand over the verses to deceive William Miller. This was corrected by the corn field vision (later repudiated by visionary). Reaffirmed by Ellen White's visions. (which may have been epileptic seizures. Or she may have just lied). All of this bumbling, God hiding verses from sight, and outright audacious lies is the basis of "Remnant church." Visions were described in their entirety using plagiarized material from other authors. Sanctuary Doctrine and Investigative Judgment (the two central doctrines of Church) baldly contradict the Book of Hebrews. 100's of theologians and ministers have been fired for being unable to "stitch" together an appropriate "quilt" to defend the doctrines from the bible. Sabbath Doctrine is the "seal" of the 144,000, who resist the Mark of the Beast (The Pope. Who changed Saturday to Sunday. Except that he didn't).

BobRyan · Apr 11, 2014

from scratch said:
So what the 7th day of creation is a different item than the Sabbath. t.

Until you read Ex 20:11 where you find that God claims they are the exact same thing.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

For all who are not at war with God's Ten Commandments - this point could hardly be more explicit - as it is stated by God Himself.

your argument is "with the text".

in Christ,

Bob

BobRyan · Apr 11, 2014

LarryP2 said:
This is known as Seventh Day Adventist "Scripture Sculpting," except that .

That is known as off-topic ranting, vitriol and diatribe. It is the "one note" response to all topics that some might choose. But as we see on even this thread - not everyone will resort to doing it.

Because of that principle -- that not everyone resorts to such - we have actual "discussion".

in Christ,

Bob

LarryP2 · Apr 11, 2014

BobRyan said:
As even the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of Faith, and D.L. Moody and pretty much all in the signature line - admit - the Sabbath begins in Eden not at Sinai.

And what is more the Ex 20:11 statement by God proves it.

As does this Mark 2:27 reference by Christ "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND and not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" speaking of the "making" of both - in Gen 1-2:3.

Thus we have the "Sabbath truth from Scripture" not only stated - but even find pro-Sunday sources admitting to the glaringly obvious fact regarding the origin for the Sabbath.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective Bible student.

in Christ,

Bob

Yes, knowledge of the Bible has remained static for the last 200 years or so. We haven't had the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Qumran, advances in Archaeology, advances in Hebrew Linguistic knowledge.

We are to believe the 1689 Baptist Confession of Faith represents the State of the Art in theology. Or was it the 1646 Westminister Confession of Faith? Well, you have to hand it to Bob, Dwight Moody's death in 1899 is quite a bit more current than those two prior statements of beliefs. That was only just over 100 years ago. Of course none of those sources would have DREAMED they would be deployed to provide support for the modern revival of a toxic heresy that has been harshly and energetically denounced for 2,000 years by Christianity. Make no mistake about it: First Century Christianity viewed Sabbath Keeping as quite possibly the most dangerous heresy the Church faced, easily surpassing the Gnostic heresy as a danger.

And leaving aside the Fact that not one single Seventh Day Adventist Hebrew language expert or theologian agrees that the Sabbath is a Creation ordinances.

Other than that, its a good argument.

pyramid33 · Apr 11, 2014

Cribstyl said:
Many churches and noteable individuals may confess that Sabbath was given at creation, but we cant find it anywhere in the scripture.
Please post it today or you have no evidence of what you believe about Sabbath.

If God said that Sabbath is a sign between Himself and the chidren of Israel, I dont expect to find Sabbath first given for everybody to keep.

Let's post God's word rather that spreading falsehood.

Sabbath is like saying, "take a day off, relax." I find no reason to hate a day of rest.

I also don't find any place demanding one to take a day off or else be killed for it.

It is a blessing from God and should be viewed as such.

LarryP2 · Apr 11, 2014

pyramid33 said:
Sabbath is like saying, "take a day off, relax." I find no reason to hate a day of rest.

I also don't find any place demanding one to take a day off or else be killed for it.

It is a blessing from God and should be viewed as such.

You clearly do not understand the role of the Sabbath in Adventist Soteriology. Perfect Sabbath keeping is the seal of their Salvation, and required to finish the work of the Cross. Only when 144,000 Adventists achieve Sinless Perfection and keep the Sabbath perfectly can Christ return. Restoration of the Sabbath is the main reason the "Remnant Church" exists, which will be the only resistance to the Mark of the Beast, which is Sunday worship. Adventist have unraveled a gigantic conspiracy theory lasting thousands of years where the Sabbath was degraded by a succession of Roman Catholic Popes.

pyramid33 · Apr 11, 2014

LarryP2 said:
You clearly do not understand the role of the Sabbath in Adventist Soteriology.

It is the main reason the "Remnant Church" exists, who will be the only resisters to the Mark of the Beast, which is Sunday worship.

I don't even know what that mean's, and yet God love's me always.

All believer's in God have overcome the mark of the beastly way's by trusting in God alone, by His mercy and grace.

LarryP2 · Apr 11, 2014

pyramid33 said:
I don't even know what that mean's, and yet God love's me always.

All believer's in God have overcome the mark of the beastly way's by trusting in God alone, by His mercy and grace.

Adventists will be alone against the Mark of the Beast, since Christ will step away from his mediator role, and they will have to face Satan alone. It will be the test of their Sinless Perfection, honed after many years of perfect Sabbath Keeping. And Roman Catholics will be chasing them through the wilderness and murdering them like Elk.

That's why you will notice of pattern of THOUSANDS of Sabbath Spam posts, with almost none about the Resurrection. The Sabbath is virtually the entire Gospel to them.

from scratch · Apr 11, 2014

Stryder06 said:
You guys are still going at it huh? I guess it was about time that they finally made a Sabbath sub forum

Of it weren't for the militant of your faith there would be little to no discussion about either false doctrine.

Nice to see you're still alive and reading at least some of the forum.

VictorC · Apr 11, 2014

BobRyan said:
As even the Baptist Confession of Faith - and the Westminster Confession of Faith, and D.L. Moody and pretty much all in the signature line - admit - the Sabbath begins in Eden not at Sinai.

Your first move is to flee Scripture and deflect attention to ECF's that many of us don't accept because of the errors they contain.

BobRyan said:
And what is more the Ex 20:11 statement by God proves it.

As was pointed out before, Exodus 20:11 proves that the Sabbath didn't originate in the creation account.

BobRyan said:
As does this Mark 2:27 reference by Christ "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND and not MANKIND MADE for the Sabbath" speaking of the "making" of both - in Gen 1-2:3.

Neither of which was recorded in the Genesis account. Mark 2:27 proves that the Sabbath wasn't God's rest recorded in the creation account.

BobRyan said:
Thus we have the "Sabbath truth from Scripture" not only stated - but even find pro-Sunday sources admitting to the glaringly obvious fact regarding the origin for the Sabbath.

How "instructive" for the unbiased objective Bible student.

in Christ,

Bob

Bob repeats the same three verses over and over, because he can't find support for the Sabbath originating before Moses lived. Now ask yourself: Why can't Bob find any Biblical evidence for his thesis of the Sabbath's origin before the Law that ordained it?
The answer is obvious. All he can post is the same three verses that prove his argument to be wrong.

from scratch · Apr 11, 2014

LarryP2 said:
This is known as Seventh Day Adventist "Scripture Sculpting," except that does not accurately describe the theological horror. The Church is founded on Daniel 8:14. Daniel 8:14 can be seen as the overall "quilt" design. The "squares" of the "quilt" are isolated and obscure sentence fragments, and partial verses taken completely out of context, with fantastic leaps ("double and a half gainers" as Tom Wolfe would say) of logic providing the "stitching," which holds the whole astonishing conglomeration together. Rip out just one minor stitch, the whole unholy mess unravels. The "logic" of the entire mess goes like this:

False Prophecy of 1843 and 1844 based solely on Daniel 8:14. God held his hand over the verses to deceive William Miller. This was corrected by the corn field vision (later repudiated by visionary). Reaffirmed by Ellen White's visions. (which may have been epileptic seizures. Or she may have just lied). All of this bumbling, God hiding verses from sight, and outright audacious lies is the basis of "Remnant church." Visions were described in their entirety using plagiarized material from other authors. Sanctuary Doctrine and Investigative Judgment (the two central doctrines of Church) baldly contradict the Book of Hebrews. 100's of theologians and ministers have been fired for being unable to "stitch" together an appropriate "quilt" to defend the doctrines from the bible. Sabbath Doctrine is the "seal" of the 144,000, who resist the Mark of the Beast (The Pope. Who changed Saturday to Sunday. Except that he didn't).

Well not even all of their adherents are going to make heaven if its limited to 144,000. Just another reason to not be part of organization. The JW's also make this claim. Who's gonna win that bet?

from scratch · Apr 11, 2014

BobRyan said:
That is known as off-topic ranting, vitriol and diatribe. It is the "one note" response to all topics that some might choose. But as we see on even this thread - not everyone will resort to doing it.

Because of that principle -- that not everyone resorts to such - we have actual "discussion".

in Christ,

Bob

No that is being honest about the truth.

VictorC · Apr 11, 2014

pyramid33 said:
Sabbath is like saying, "take a day off, relax." I find no reason to hate a day of rest.

Cribstyl's allusion was to Exodus 31:13. Why didn't God charge anyone other than the children of Israel with the Sabbath? He didn't give it to anyone else. It wasn't simply a 'day off', as the Law that ordained the Sabbath conveyed many constraints and duties to perform in order to keep this component of the old covenant Holy. Look into the eyes of the lamb your priest has to slaughter, consider God's Word declaring "Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them (which are offered according to the law)" (Hebrews 10:8), and replace the 'hate' you infer others opine with God's displeasure in this ordinance.

pyramid33 said:
I also don't find any place demanding one to take a day off or else be killed for it.

I see you haven't experienced the ramblings of Seventh-day Adventists when they espouse their eschatology revolving around their dreaded 'Sunday Law' thesis. Take a look at this failed prophecy from their 'prophet' Ellen White:

The trying experiences that came to Gods people in the days of Esther were not peculiar to that age alone. The revelator, looking down the ages to the close of time, has declared, The dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Revelation 12:17. Some who today are living on the earth will see these words fulfilled. The same spirit that in ages past led men to persecute the true church, will in the future lead to the pursuance of a similar course toward those who maintain their loyalty to God. Even now preparations are being made for this last great conflict.

The decree that will finally go forth against the remnant people of God will be very similar to that issued by Ahasuerus against the Jews. Today the enemies of the true church see in the little company keeping the Sabbath commandment, a Mordecai at the gate. The reverence of Gods people for His law is a constant rebuke to those who have cast off the fear of the Lord and are trampling on His Sabbath.

I highlighted this quote taken from Ellen White's Prophets and Kings, page 605, to show her claim that this death decree on those 'keeping' the Sabbath would happen during the lifespan of those "who today are living on the earth". Ellen White died in 1915. This 'prophecy' is among many showing Ellen White to be a phony, but mention the 'Sunday Law' around an Adventist and you will find this is still their view.

pyramid33 said:
It is a blessing from God and should be viewed as such.

The Sabbath directed us toward God's rest, which wasn't attained by those who alone had the Sabbath. The reality of Christ's redemption is the blessing realized by His promise through Abraham 430 years before the Sabbath existed: "In your Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed".

Where is the Sabbath truth from the scripture?

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