IAMCS - Anti-gentile?

pat34lee

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This group has decided that gentiles are not supposed to keep kosher or observe shabbat or follow most of YHWH's laws. It seems they are just for the Jews. There is a copy of the 60 page paper (One Law Two Sticks) on the IAMCS site:
International Alliance of Messianic Congregations and Synagogues / Shalom

Brad Scott has written a great rebuttal, and by rewording the first two paragraphs, he reveals the heart of the matter: Racism.
Title — The WildBranch Ministry

He is clear that this is a minority view:
I wish to begin with a disclaimer. These are only a few frustrated men that do not represent the whole of Messianic Judaism. Most leaders and members of Messianic Jewish synagogues and congregations that I have fellowshipped with are warm, loving people who just want to worship and please the God of Israel just as we do.
 
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annier

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Hoshiyya

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More than half of "Messianics" are not Jews but gentiles who wish to make things up as they go along rather than keep Torah or learn from the sages at all. The only thing that can keep gentiles from keeping Torah is themselves, and they're good at it. They've managed to avoid doing so for millennia.
 
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annier

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UMJC is also leaning that way - Gentiles cannot partake in Jewish traditions.
This does not appear to reflect what the link says???????
We don’t disagree generally with the use of Jewish symbolism and expression by non-
Jews.
They are concerned about this
However, such usage by legalistic, non-Jewish groups, many of whom think they
!
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are the true Israelites, and who are often critical and divisive toward the Gentile church,
can cause much offense and/or confusion in both the Jewish and Christian community.
Both the Jewish and Christian communities may not be able to see the distinction
between the Messianic Jewish community and the Hebrew Roots camp.

They are clear right here......
At this point, we wish to be clear about our purpose and our heart’s intent: In what we
say in this paper, we are not in any way speaking against the many precious Gentiles who
fellowship in messianic synagogues in response to a call from the Lord. Many non-Jews
come into the messianic Jewish fold with the desire of knowing the Lord through the
Jewishness of the scriptures, and in the ancient way of life, which was Yeshua’s own
culture and heritage, as preserved in the life of the Jewish people. We, in Messianic
Judaism, have always welcomed and encouraged non-Jews to fellowship with us, to
celebrate Messiah together, and help us restore Israel to faith in Yeshua. Our concern is
with those who advocate legalism.

This attitude was my own personal experience as a messianic Gentile. I was welcome indeed.
 
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annier

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General website statements don't always reflect the individual congregations. And congregational websites look and sound good on "paper", but what goes on in reality is different. This is said from personal experience.
Sure, but your post did not appear to be speaking about an experience. The post appeared to be responding to the link. The congregation I attended was very supportive of the mjaa during my fellowship there. But...sadly had gone to one law.
 
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yedida

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This does not appear to reflect what the link says???????They are concerned about this
They are clear right here......

This attitude was my own personal experience as a messianic Gentile. I was welcome indeed.


I have felt the same way. Those who have no observance toward Torah yet claim they are Messianic tear the movement apart with their divisiveness. I hate to see it being done. Hashem gave the Torah to Moses to write down and told him to teach it to those in the wilderness (there were gentiles there at the foot of Mt. Sinai) and those in the wilderness were to teach it to their children and to the nations. But sadly, somewhere along the road the nations kind of got forgotten.
Then Yeshua came along and taught Torah and He told His disciples to go and teach all the nations. This time, sadly, over the centuries, the Torah kind of got forgotten in that command.....
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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This group has decided that gentiles are not supposed to keep kosher or observe shabbat or follow most of YHWH's laws. It seems they are just for the Jews. There is a copy of the 60 page paper (One Law Two Sticks) on the IAMCS site:
International Alliance of Messianic Congregations and Synagogues / Shalom

Brad Scott has written a great rebuttal, and by rewording the first two paragraphs, he reveals the heart of the matter: Racism.
Title — The WildBranch Ministry

He is clear that this is a minority view:
I wish to begin with a disclaimer. These are only a few frustrated men that do not represent the whole of Messianic Judaism. Most leaders and members of Messianic Jewish synagogues and congregations that I have fellowshipped with are warm, loving people who just want to worship and please the God of Israel just as we do.

The article isn't against Gentiles. It's against Hebrew Roots movement and legalism and the Hebrew Roots movement advocation of Gentiles being Israelites and since they are Israelites they MUST follow Torah or their salvation is in jeopardy.
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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General website statements don't always reflect the individual congregations. And congregational websites look and sound good on "paper", but what goes on in reality is different. This is said from personal experience.

I'm a member of the MJAA and also a member of what some would call the MJAA flagship congregation. The paper was written by MJAA steering committee.

I read the article yesterday and to me the article addresses Hebrew Roots condemnation of the Church and Hebrew Roots advocation to leave the pagan Church. The article also addresses two house.

At the end of the article the position addresses Gentile Torah observance. The position is they don't fault the Church like Hebrew Roots does for not observing. And the position is they don't forbid it. It also is said that the Apostle's decided not to put a yoke of law upon the Gentiles and 'neither should we..'

The first thing to consider is the MJAA isn't like the UMJC in regards to having a more congregational aspect to it. MJAA focus is on Jewish revival compared to a more UMJC stringent Torah observance in a congressional sense.

All this is from first hand experience.

The MJAA I'm accustomed too doesn't promote Torah observance as the focus like UMJC does which doesn't mean no Torah observance. This is why some people are turned off by a Beth Yeshua like as an example. MJAA leadership is without a doubt against legalistic Torah observance and without a doubt against Hebrew Roots which advocates two house and or disregard for Jewish traditions as the article states. I think one passage in the article expressed a disregard for the Sefer Torah in inappropriate manners among Hebrew Roots circles which I agree with.

It's also noted that the paper expresses that a Messianic congregation is a congregation composed of Jews and non Jews IN a Jewish setting. In which the article addresses the disregard for Jewish traditions present in a Messianic Jewish congregation.

As an educated guess I suspect that Beth Immanuel doesn't fit the mold of what the paper is against. Even though Beth Immanuel is most likely majority non Jewish I've read that there isn't a disregard for Jewish tradition and inappropriates.

I think Steve Peterson would be a better witness to this?
 
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David Ben Yosef

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This group has decided that gentiles are not supposed to keep kosher or observe shabbat or follow most of YHWH's laws. It seems they are just for the Jews.
I agree, this is a dangerous doctrine and has been growing in popularity. It needs to be stopped.
 
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David Ben Yosef

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More than half of "Messianics" are not Jews but gentiles who wish to make things up as they go along rather than keep Torah or learn from the sages at all. The only thing that can keep gentiles from keeping Torah is themselves, and they're good at it. They've managed to avoid doing so for millennia.
WAY more than half, probably more like 90% or more.
 
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Steve Petersen

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As an educated guess I suspect that Beth Immanuel doesn't fit the mold of what the paper is against. Even though Beth Immanuel is most likely majority non Jewish I've read that there isn't a disregard for Jewish tradition and inappropriates.

I think Steve Peterson would be a better witness to this?

There are only a few halachically Jewish members of BI (those with Jewish mothers.)

BI holds a high view of traditional Judaism.

As for affiliation, it is not connected with any Messianic organization. Its cantor has a degree from the Messianic Jewish Theological Institute.

IMO, BIs sympathies lie in the direction of the UMJC. Also IMO, if a qualified Jewish leadership ever appeared, the current leaders of BI are ready to hand over the keys of the place to them.
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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There are only a few halachically Jewish members of BI (those with Jewish mothers.)

BI holds a high view of traditional Judaism.

As for affiliation, it is not connected with any Messianic organization. Its cantor has a degree from the Messianic Jewish Theological Institute.

IMO, BIs sympathies lie in the direction of the UMJC. Also IMO, if a qualified Jewish leadership ever appeared, the current leaders of BI are ready to hand over the keys of the place to them.

If BI sympathies lie in the direction of the UMJC why/how does BI hold a high view of traditional Judaism in their services?
 
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Steve Petersen

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If BI sympathies lie in the direction of the UMJC why/how does BI hold a high view of traditional Judaism in their services?

BI is NOT affiliated with UMJC. UMJC is the less 'charismatic' of the major Messianic organizations. UMJCs view of Torah and traditional Judaism is more palatable than the alternatives. As far as I know, BI has no intention of joining any Messianic organization.
 
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