More Vote Fraud That Doesn't Exist

iluvatar5150

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they have a very simple way of stopping it in my town. They make you sign your name when you vote. If someone tries to double vote, they get turned away.

If you'd read the article, you'd know that the "double voting" we're referring to is being registered and voting in two separate districts. Your method will not stop that, either.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Getting struck by lightening occurs too, but chances of that happening are greater then voter fraud taking place.

I don't see how we can even determine the rarity since the only metric we have is confirmed cases where fraud does happen...like any form of fraud, there's going to be more of it that doesn't get noticed than cases that actually get caught.

...it's one of those things that could be happening a lot more frequently than we think. Much like driving without a license. Sure, the occasional person will get caught doing it, but it's "rare" in terms of the frequency of people getting caught doing it...however, in reality, it happens a lot (I've had friends & family that have driven without a license for months at a time without ever getting caught...and so it happened, but no statistical data would ever show that it did).

The thing I don't understand is this, there seems to be a lot of "wanting it both ways" coming from both sides of the political spectrum on this issue...you have some republicans who absolutely oppose having to show identification for certain things, but seem to be demanding it for voting...and on the other hand, you have liberals who typically demand special licensing and identification for certain other rights, but don't seem to feel it's that important for voting. :confused::confused:

I see a lot of voting manipulation coming from both major political parties...you have one party stirring the pot and telling certain communities "they're suppressing your votes"...much like the two Ohio politicians who decided to take a case where 30,000 illegal votes were thrown out (votes from people who weren't registered), and twist that into "look, the evil republican judge is throwing out your votes, us Democrats will fight for you :thumbsup:" (essentially, a shallow attempt to build loyalty...which unfortunately is working)

...and on the other side of that, rather than calling out Democrats on their BS (publically), Republicans are trying to counter it with changes to absentee and weekend voting laws which makes them come across looking like jerks...

For me personally, if you're going to have a system that involves every person getting one vote, I have no problem with a person having to show ID to prove they are who they say they are...
 
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iluvatar5150

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The thing I don't understand is this, there seems to be a lot of "wanting it both ways" coming from both sides of the political spectrum on this issue...you have some republicans who absolutely oppose having to show identification for certain things, but seem to be demanding it for voting...and on the other hand, you have liberals who typically demand special licensing and identification for certain other rights, but don't seem to feel it's that important for voting. :confused::confused:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s4C20Rkx_k
 
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Veritas

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More interesting? That was mentioned in every one of the links I provided. Did you read any of them? Why start a thread if you're not going to read the comments of the people responding to it?



The claim was, "Overly restrictive identification requirements for voters at the polls — which address a sort of voter fraud more rare than death by lightning"

Voter ID laws won't stop double voting.

First off, this thread is not about voter id, ok? Secondly, the prevalence of voting fraud for liberals appears to be virtually non-existent which has been demonstrated time and again to be untrue. In fact, there's been little extensive research on the matter. Rather, we keep getting these stories that trickle out of specific incidences, only to be told they are extremely rare. How many "rare" events does it take before liberals as a whole care? Answer: just one. November, 2004 Florida, Bush vs. Gore. IOW, when liberals perceive they may be victims of vote fraud, they will do everything in their power to expose what they think happened.

A conservative think tank, color me shocked.

Vs. a Soros funded, leftwing think tank with an agenda. What's so shocking?
 
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iluvatar5150

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First off, this thread is not about voter id, ok? Secondly, the prevalence of voting fraud for liberals appears to be virtually non-existent which has been demonstrated time and again to be untrue. In fact, there's been little extensive research on the matter. Rather, we keep getting these stories that trickle out of specific incidences, only to be told they are extremely rare. How many "rare" events does it take before liberals as a whole care? Answer: just one. November, 2004 Florida, Bush vs. Gore. IOW, when liberals perceive they may be victims of vote fraud, they will do everything in their power to expose what they think happened.

What you've somehow failed to grasp in all of this is that the claim is not that ALL FORMS of voter fraud are rare - the claim is that THE FORMS PROTECTED AGAINST BY VOTER ID are rare. Heck, that point has already been brought up in this thread.

By pretending that liberals claim that all forms of voter fraud are rare, you basically telegraph to everyone that you're either ignorant of the issue or you're dishonest enough to mischaracterize it in order to win an argument.
 
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MachZer0

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USincognito

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At least 81 dead people have been voting in North Carolina | The Daily Caller#!

At least 81 dead people have been voting in North Carolina over the last ten years, according to state election officials.

If that's the way the Daily Caller put things they, as usual, are lying. On page 36 of the report, this is what it says:
10-year Death Audit

Identified 50,000+ new death records from DHHS that had not previously been provided to SBOE.

Audit identified 13,416 deceased voters on voter rolls in October 2013. These votes were subsequently removed.

Data: 81 deceased voters have voter history later than the date of their death.​

81 deceased voters have voter history later than date of their death = over the course of 10 years, 81 voters were found to have voter history later than date of their death. It does not mean that 81 people were using the registrations of dead people for 10 years as The Daily Caller mendaciously asserts.

{quoting the daily caller}The North Carolina State Board of Elections indicated that voter fraud may be at play

The word fraud does not appear in 58 pages of that report.

{quoting the daily caller}“We have fraud and error vulnerabilities in our election system,” North Carolina state Rep. David Lewis said Monday after the report’s release.

This is from a press release sent out by Rep. Lewis.
David Lewis for NC House
Today we learned that VIVA, the Voter ID law passed last year in the North Carolina General Assembly, found a number of devastating vulnerabilities in our current election system. The State Board of Elections gave a report today with the following information:​
VIVA nor Voter ID had anything to do with the lists and the discoveries therein.
As I’ve stated all along, I am committed to preserving the integrity of North Carolina elections and asking folks to present photo identification at the polls is just the first step in this process.​
How would having Voter ID prevent people from voting in two different states? Trying to get every state to participate in the Interstate Crosscheck program would be a lot more effective.

{quoting the Daily Caller}Liberal opponents of voter ID laws say voter fraud is rare, and therefore it hurts lower income and minority voters by requiring them to have identification.

But the State Board of Elections reported finding other instances of potential fraud: they found 765 instances of voters in North Carolina who also voted in another state in the 2012 general election.

Actually there are non-liberals who either are opposed to it or find it a solution to a problem that isn't as big as alarmists make it out to be. Further, how would Voter ID prevent people from voting in two different states?

eta - from here:
"They verified there was voter fraud," said Susan Myrick, with the conservative think tank NC Civitas.

Myrick has been warning about voter fraud for years, and she said the numbers just out show it's happening, and it's happening a lot.
--------------
For everything the new law does, including a number of restrictions on voting access, it's not clear that it would stop this interstate fraud. It's a point critics of the law were quick to make, and even some supporters acknowledged.

"The Voter ID bill may not have prevented that," said Myrick.​

Based on the frequency of actual reported vote fraud and the fact that liberals consistently deny that it's a problem and extremely rare, one could logically conclude that the majority of vote fraud is committed by democrats who recognize that they've been the beneficiaries.

False premise - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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USincognito

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It says that 81 dead people continued to vote for at least 10 years after their death. So they weren't just on the rolls, they actually voted.....from the grave. But wait. How do you do that? Answer: you can't. Someone else is obviously voting for them, essentially stacking the vote. What we don't know is whether those votes were cast mostly for D's or R's. How would you feel if they were for R's?

Since the part in bold never happened, nor was it claimed to have happened in the actual report, the rest of your screed can be dismissed without reservation.
 
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USincognito

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USincognito

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Yes the article is clear. They did vote. And they have been voting for years. Did you read it? Cause it doesn't seem like you read it.

No, the article is lying. They did vote. There's no indication any of them "vote{ed} for years" however. Reading the actual report would be a better idea than a lying Daily Caller article.
 
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I see a lot of voting manipulation coming from both major political parties...you have one party stirring the pot and telling certain communities "they're suppressing your votes"...much like the two Ohio politicians who decided to take a case where 30,000 illegal votes were thrown out (votes from people who weren't registered), and twist that into "look, the evil republican judge is throwing out your votes, us Democrats will fight for you :thumbsup:" (essentially, a shallow attempt to build loyalty...which unfortunately is working)

Do you have a citation for this? It's a new one for me and I like to look at the local reporting.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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JoyJuice

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The NC situation gets more interesting.
N.C. State Board Finds More than 35K Incidents of 'Double Voting' in 2012 | National Review Online

So 35K double votes of people with same name, DOB, SS#.
I wonder if 35K people also got struck by lightening in NC in 2012?
LOL, NC makes the point. Someone broke it down on your own furnished website:
"The review searched databases in 27 other states and 101 million voter records ... 35,570 North Carolina voters from 2012 shared the same first names, last names, and dates of birth with individuals who voted in other states."

First, why did they only search 27 state databases - the other 23 states were irrelevant? Second, there were actually 127 million votes cast in 2012 - the other 26 million voters don't count?

Further, I don't find the same 1st, last & birth year numbers surprising - 35,570 of 101 million is .00035 percent: how many Robert Jones, Bill James, Steve Leonards, etc., are there in different states born in the same year? There no factual data showing these people are fraudulent in any manner whatsoever - show me proof.

"Another 765 Tar Heel State residents who voted in 2012 had the the same names, birthdays, and final four digits of a Social Security number as voters elsewhere."

Fact: N.C. population increased 210,000 between 2010 to 2012 - so did these 765 voters move to N.C. and the others states databases merely reflected OLD prior voter registration info? Good probability that's actually the case. Further, there's no proof presented that duplicate ballots actually CAST in the other states - not a minor point. Again show me proof.

"81 deceased North Carolinians apparently voted in 2012 as well. While some appear to have submitted absentee ballots prior to their death, she said “there are between 40 and 50 who had died at a time that that’s not possible.”

How many total votes were cast in N.C in 2012? That 'little' fact is missing from the article. The number is 4.5 MILLION.

So throw out the first 35,570 mentioned, then the second 765 and you end up with a questionable "40 or 50 who had died": ... thats .00001 of the total 2012 N.C. vote and statistically irrelevant.

Add back the 765 unverified 'they voted twice in other states' for and you get .0002 of the total 2012 N.C. vote.""
...so what's that percentage of being struck by lightening again?
 
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Queller

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It says that 81 dead people continued to vote for at least 10 years after their death.
No it doesn't say that. It says that 81 people have a voter record after their date of death. It doesn't say for how long or how many times each one allegedly voted. It certainly doesn't say anything about 10 years.
 
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Further, I don't find the same 1st, last & birth year numbers surprising - 35,570 of 101 million is .00035 percent: how many Robert Jones, Bill James, Steve Leonards, etc., are there in different states born in the same year?

Probably more than you would think. When I was in high school there was a kid in my class with the same first, middle, and last name as mine. We were also born in the same year and, IIRC, only a few days apart.

Made it a pain for my parents when they came in for parent teacher conferences. I was about to be grounded for life until the teacher realized she was talking about the wrong kid.

Similarly, my mother and my Aunt have the same first & last names (name changes due to getting married), as well as birth years. Makes for a lot of confusion at doctor's offices and banks they both use.
 
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Veritas

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From the text of the actual report document:

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1101899-board-of-elections-voter-audit.html

The North Carolina Board of Elections identified 35,750 voters with matching first and last names and date of birth were registered in North Carolina and another state, and voted in both states in the 2012 general election. Another 765 voters with an exact match of first and last name, date of birth and last four digits of their Social Security number were registered and voted in the 2012 general election in North Carolina and another state.

No if, ands or buts, this is voter fraud. It doesn't matter whether it's 765 or 765,000; it's breaking the law. Let's assume for a minute that every one of the 765 voted republican twice. That would equate to 1530 votes. Feel better, liberals? This is really just the tip of the iceberg. Just like they found in a tiny investigation in FL of illegal's registering AND actually voting in American elections. I'm sick of the issue being minimized and characterized as "rare", "non-existent", etc. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there has been widespread fraud going on for some time. We don't have a reliable voting system with proper checks and balances to prevent this. Voter ID is one of many steps that could be taken to prevent fraud at the polls. There are other measures that need to be taken with mail vote states, like mine.
 
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Veritas

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No it doesn't say that. It says that 81 people have a voter record after their date of death. It doesn't say for how long or how many times each one allegedly voted. It certainly doesn't say anything about 10 years.


Except it does say 10 years. Did you find something else?
 
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Bedford

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It says that 81 dead people continued to vote for at least 10 years after their death.

You're wrong. It does not say that.

It says it is a 10 year death audit however it never says that people were continuing to vote at least 10 years after their death. There is not enough information provided for you to make that assumption.


10-year Death Audit

Identified 50,000+ new death records from
DHHS that had not previously been
provided to SBOE.

Audit identified 13,416 deceased voters
on voter rolls in October 2013. These votes
were subsequently removed.


Data
: 81 deceased voters have voter
history later than the date of their death.
 
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NightHawkeye

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You're wrong. It does not say that.

It says it is a 10 year death audit however it never says that people were continuing to vote at least 10 years after their death. There is not enough information provided for you to make that assumption.


It does say though that those dead voters continued to vote even after their corporeal existence ceased to be. :wave:
 
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