Drying of the Euphrates River is a symbolic analogy

John S · Mar 24, 2014

interpreter said:
Where did you get that idea? The Satanic beast is so thoroughly defeated in the Battle of Ar Mageddon that it will not be heard from for a thousand years.

Revelations states that as a result of the wars and all of the nuclear weapons that are exploded that lead to Armageddon - except for the return of Jesus Christ, no flesh would be saved. Then Satan will be bound for 1000 years.
Bin Laden did NOT start Armageddon.
The Tribulation has NOT begun. The antichrist has NOT appeared. There has been NO "Mark of the Beast". There have been NO 2 witnesses. Satan has NOT been bound yet - because when he is, then the 6th Day will be over and the FIRST Biblical prophecy will finally be fulfilled - "and on the 7th Day, God rested".

There has been NOTHING yet.

interpreter · Mar 24, 2014

John S said:
Revelations states that as a result of the wars and all of the nuclear weapons that are exploded that lead to Armageddon - except for the return of Jesus Christ, no flesh would be saved. Then Satan will be bound for 1000 years.
Bin Laden did NOT start Armageddon.
The Tribulation has NOT begun. The antichrist has NOT appeared. There has been NO "Mark of the Beast". There have been NO 2 witnesses. Satan has NOT been bound yet - because when he is, then the 6th Day will be over and the FIRST Biblical prophecy will finally be fulfilled - "and on the 7th Day, God rested".

There has been NOTHING yet.

The great tribulation was WW II. We are now experiencing the 7 last plagues, such as skin cancer, red tides, global warming, etc. We are now in the early stages of the Battle of Ar Mageddon, last plague # 7.

John S · Mar 24, 2014

interpreter said:
The great tribulation was WW II. We are now experiencing the 7 last plagues, such as skin cancer, red tides, global warming, etc. We are now in the early stages of the Battle of Ar Mageddon, last plague # 7.

Wrong.

Bible2 · Mar 25, 2014

interpreter said in post 22:

We are now experiencing the 7 last plagues, such as skin cancer, red tides, global warming, etc.

The world won't experience the 7 last plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation chapters 15-16), the last stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, until after the never-fulfilled Revelation chapters 6 to 15 have been fulfilled. At the 1st vial, an awful sore will appear on only those people who will have received the Antichrist's mark and worshipped his image (Revelation 16:2). At the 2nd vial, the sea will become like the blood of a dead man, and every living creature in the sea will die (Revelation 16:3). At the 3rd vial, all surface sources of fresh water will become blood (Revelation 16:4). At the 4th vial, men will be scorched with fire shot out from the sun (Revelation 16:8). This would be a solar-flare coronal mass ejection of solar plasma, which could make its way down to the surface of the earth due to the earth's magnetic field being disrupted during a magnetic-pole reversal which could occur near the end of the future tribulation.

At the 5th vial, the whole world will be plunged into literal darkness (Revelation 16:10). At the 6th vial, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9), and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together in an attempt to defeat YHWH God (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). The Euphrates will dry up so that the armies of "the kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12) (i.e. the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the riverbed and gather at the "place" called Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). Once they've gathered there, as only a staging area, with all the other armies of the world (Revelation 16:14,16), they won't wage battle there (that's why the Bible doesn't refer to a "battle" of Armageddon). Instead, they will travel south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

At the 7th vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20), and 100-pound hailstones will pummel the earth (Revelation 16:21). The 7th vial will also be when Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed (Revelation 16:19).

interpreter · Mar 25, 2014

Bible2 said:
The world won't experience the 7 last plagues of the 7 vials of God's wrath (Revelation chapters 15-16), the last stage of the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, until after the never-fulfilled Revelation chapters 6 to 15 have been fulfilled. At the 1st vial, an awful sore will appear on only those people who will have received the Antichrist's mark and worshipped his image (Revelation 16:2). At the 2nd vial, the sea will become like the blood of a dead man, and every living creature in the sea will die (Revelation 16:3). At the 3rd vial, all surface sources of fresh water will become blood (Revelation 16:4). At the 4th vial, men will be scorched with fire shot out from the sun (Revelation 16:8). This would be a solar-flare coronal mass ejection of solar plasma, which could make its way down to the surface of the earth due to the earth's magnetic field being disrupted during a magnetic-pole reversal which could occur near the end of the future tribulation.

At the 5th vial, the whole world will be plunged into literal darkness (Revelation 16:10). At the 6th vial, unclean spirits like frogs will come out of the mouths of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan: Revelation 12:9), and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast), and the False Prophet (Revelation 16:13). And these unclean spirits like frogs will go forth and perform amazing miracles to convince the world's armies to gather together in an attempt to defeat YHWH God (Revelation 16:14, Revelation 19:19). The Euphrates will dry up so that the armies of "the kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12) (i.e. the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the riverbed and gather at the "place" called Armageddon (Revelation 16:16) (Har Megiddo: Mount Megiddo in northern Israel). Once they've gathered there, as only a staging area, with all the other armies of the world (Revelation 16:14,16), they won't wage battle there (that's why the Bible doesn't refer to a "battle" of Armageddon). Instead, they will travel south to pillage Jerusalem, right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

At the 7th vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20), and 100-pound hailstones will pummel the earth (Revelation 16:21). The 7th vial will also be when Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed (Revelation 16:19).

The fact that we are now experiencing the 7 last plagues proves that all previous chapters have been fulfilled.
The first plague is skin cancer and is poured out on Aryans, the image worshiped by Hitler the antichrist and his followers.
The 2nd plague is red tides which are the color of a dead man's blood. Scientists say that if the present trend continues, all the fish in the sea will be dead by 2048.
The third plague is deadly fresh water which we are in the early stages of. Our lakes now contain deadly brain-eating amoebas.
The 4th plague is clearly global warming.
The 5th plague is an increase in atheism and new diseases like MRSA and flesh-eating bacteria.
The 6th plague is the drying up of the Euphrates. The lower Euphrates was dry from May 1994 to April 2003, dried up by Saddam Hussein to prepare the way for the kings of the east in the Battle of Ar Mageddon.
The 7th plague is the Battle of Ar Mageddon. It began on 9/11, and we are now dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the 7th head of the beast.

Bible2 · Mar 26, 2014

interpreter said in post 25:

The first plague is skin cancer and is poured out on Aryans, the image worshiped by Hitler the antichrist and his followers.

In Revelation 16:2, the original Greek word (helkos, G1668) translated as "a sore" means "an ulcer" (Strong's Greek Dictionary). So the sore could be a festering skin ulcer. It could appear right at the place on the skin where people had received the Antichrist's mark on either their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16, Revelation 16:2).

interpreter said in post 25:

The first plague is skin cancer and is poured out on Aryans, the image worshiped by Hitler the antichrist and his followers.

Most Aryans don't get skin cancer. And skin cancer isn't limited to Aryans, and can be even more deadly in non-Aryans. Also, the first vial (Revelation 16:2) refers to awful sores which don't have to be cancerous, and which will appear on only those people, and on all those people who will have received the Antichrist's mark and worshipped his image (Revelation 16:2). And these people will include all races, for the Antichrist will be worshipped by all races of the earth (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 13:3b-4). Neither the Antichrist, nor his mark, nor his image has come yet (Revelation 13:4-18). So the first vial (Revelation 16:2) can't have happened yet.

interpreter said in post 25:

The first plague is skin cancer and is poured out on Aryans, the image worshiped by Hitler the antichrist and his followers.

Any mistaken teaching which claims the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in the future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking he isn't the Antichrist.

Hitler didn't fulfill the detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and Revelation 20:4. Also, Hitler didn't fulfill other prophecies regarding the Antichrist (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9, Daniel 11:31,36; cf. Matthew 24:15). The detailed prophecies regarding the Antichrist, just as the rest of the tribulation prophecies of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, have never been fulfilled.

interpreter said in post 25:

The first plague is skin cancer and is poured out on Aryans, the image worshiped by Hitler the antichrist and his followers.

The "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15) could be an android image of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) which the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist won't want to appear or speak in public again.

Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, that appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning that the image isn't the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

In Revelation 13:15, the original Greek word translated as "life" or "breath" (pneuma, G4151) can mean "spirit" in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of supercomputers running advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim that the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of neural networks imprinted with the Antichrist's brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android won't actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer and can't tell whether it has consciousness or not, because all its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's, for it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear to be omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world that it's not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers: he could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his machine body, which could be made of titanium, covered with some practically-everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could just be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his indestructibility". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to be able to see the image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, television, computer, GPS navigation system, and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged in order to determine the exact location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know exactly where everyone is.

Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones, which can be remotely opened secretly in order to see and hear what's going on around the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying, and the image could then demand that the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect that individual's noncompliance, and notify the nearest police officers of that individual's exact location, and order the officers to arrest that individual for blasphemy and treason. The offending individual could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (i.e. in a brainwashing camp, or through physical torture, if necessary), but if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15) by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle, to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the image, but also to serve as an amazingly-horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians being thrown to lions and devoured alive.

Huge beheading structures could be built, by which 20 "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade, which could start out in a resting position at the top of one side. The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it's released it will easily slice down through 10 necks on one side of the "U" and continue on by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another 10 heads. This all could happen so quickly that it will appear as if all 20 heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by 20 geysers of blood rushing out in unison for all the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers.

Also, immediately after the show is over, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What's left of the bodies could then be stuffed into shipping containers, which, once full, could be stacked like stones into a gigantic "Pyramid of Death", which could eventually reach some 30 stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid that will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is that he didn't, for he created Adam and Eve immortal; it wasn't until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to saved humans through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom, love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to help foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be helped to create a group worship center in which everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", it could be that some people in each group will start to really get into the evening worship sessions, and even begin to (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He is So Great!"

But the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up his own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

Bible2 · Mar 26, 2014

interpreter said in post 25:

The 2nd plague is red tides which are the color of a dead man's blood.

Nothing has killed every living creature in the sea (Revelation 16:3b), which would include every living creature that causes red tides. So the 2nd vial can't have happened yet.

interpreter said in post 25:

The third plague is deadly fresh water which we are in the early stages of. Our lakes now contain deadly brain-eating amoebas.

All surface sources of fresh water haven't become blood (Revelation 16:4-6). So the 3rd vial hasn't happened yet.

interpreter said in post 25:

The 4th plague is clearly global warming.

Even though global warming exists, it doesn't cause men to be scorched with fire shot out from the sun (Revelation 16:8). So the 4th vial/plague can't have happened yet. It would be a solar-flare coronal mass ejection of solar plasma which could make its way down to the surface of the earth due to the earth's magnetic field being disrupted during a magnetic pole reversal which could occur near the end of the future tribulation.

interpreter said in post 25:

The 5th plague is an increase in atheism and new diseases like MRSA and flesh-eating bacteria.

The darkness of Revelation 16:10 will be literal darkness, like the plague of Exodus 10:21 was literal darkness. Also, there will be no atheism allowed anywhere when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect the beast) takes over the whole world (Revelation 13:7b) in our future and declares himself to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and the whole unsaved world worships him and Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). Also, Revelation 16:10 says the Antichrist's "kingdom" will be darkened, and his kingdom will include the whole world (Revelation 13:7b). The whole world hasn't been darkened, so the 5th vial hasn't happened yet.

interpreter said in post 25:

The 6th plague is the drying up of the Euphrates. The lower Euphrates was dry from May 1994 to April 2003, dried up by Saddam Hussein to prepare the way for the kings of the east in the Battle of Ar Mageddon.

The Euphrates drying up in Revelation 16:12 has never happened, because it's not referring to only part of the river drying up, but all of it, so that the armies of "the kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12) (that is, the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the dry riverbed and gather for battle in Israel (Revelation 16:14,16, Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:2-3). That's something else which has never happened. So the 6th seal can't have happened yet.

Also, regarding the following, relevant article:

Group Hopes to Restore Iraq Marsh Culture - ABC News

Can you quote the part of that article that you feel supports your claim that the only reason that Saddam Hussein dried up the Euphrates was to prepare the way for the kings of the east? For that article explains that he dried up only some marshes, and to attack some rebels in his own territory: "Some of the Iraqis who rebelled against Saddam took refuge in the marshes after the uprisings failed. 'Saddam could not follow them up with the tanks and armored weapons, so instead he set about drying the marshes'".

Also, how does the following part of the article explain what Saddam Hussein himself meant by "the Mother of All Battles"?:

"Dark colors show large areas of wetland before Saddam began building his huge project to drain and control the Euphrates River. Then, as the Mother Of All Battles Canal siphoned water away from the Euphrates, the Tigris and the marshes, the wetlands on the Iraqi side of the border disappeared."

Could he have meant a huge war that he intended to start (again) between Iraq and Iran? For, as the article goes on to say:

"Two things may have driven Saddam's drain-the-marshes project. First, oil is buried beneath the wetlands, and drying them out improves access for development. Second, there were military issues — even before Saddam's repression of the uprisings that followed the 1991 Gulf War. During Iraq's 1980-88 war with neighboring Iran, the marshes were often targeted because they were an infiltration route and guerrilla battleground".

interpreter said in post 25:

The 7th plague is the Battle of Ar Mageddon.

Per Strong's Concordance and Greek and Hebrew Dictionary, in Revelation 16:16 the original Greek word "Armageddon" (G0717) comes from the Hebrew words "har" (H2022) and "Megiddown" (H4023).

The Hebrew word "har" (H2022) when used before a place name means "the mount of", like it's used in Judges 2:9 to refer to "the mount of" Ephraim. And the Hebrew word "Megiddown" or "Megiddow" (H4023) refers to the place called "Megiddo", which is in northern Israel (Joshua 17:11, Judges 1:27, Judges 5:19; 1 Chronicles 7:29).

So "Armageddon" (G0717), "har" (H2022) "Megiddown" (H4023), refers to the "the mount of Megiddo". This is a hill that overlooks a large valley in northern Israel. It's in this valley of Armageddon that the world's armies will gather (Revelation 16:14,16), using it as only a staging area before they proceed south to pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

The Hebrew word "Megiddown" or "Megiddow" (H4023) means "rendezvous" (Strong's Hebrew Dictionary), as it's derived from the Hebrew word "gadad" (H1413) which can be translated as "gather themselves together" (Psalms 94:21) or "gather thyself in troops" (Micah 5:1) or "assembled themselves by troops" (Jeremiah 5:7).

interpreter said in post 25:

It began on 9/11, and we are now dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the 7th head of the beast.

Revelation 16:21 refers to 100-pound hailstones which will be literal hailstones, just as the plagues of hailstones from God in Exodus 9:25 and Joshua 10:11 were literal hailstones. Also, the 100-pound hailstones in Revelation 16:21 will plague mankind in general, and only after the never-fulfilled first 6 vials have all been fulfilled in our future. Also at the 7th vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20). And Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed when the cities of the earth are destroyed at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:19). None of these things has happened yet. So the 7th vial hasn't happened yet.

interpreter said in post 25:

It began on 9/11, and we are now dropping 100-pound "hailstones" on the 7th head of the beast.

By the 7th head of the beast, do you mean Islam?

For the 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent 7 different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires that had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10,11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

Bible2 · Mar 26, 2014

interpreter · Mar 26, 2014

Bible2 said:
In Revelation 16:2, the original Greek word (helkos, G1668) translated as "a sore" means "an ulcer" (Strong's Greek Dictionary). So the sore could be a festering skin ulcer. It could appear right at the place on the skin where people had received the Antichrist's mark on either their right hand or forehead (Revelation 13:16, Revelation 16:2).

Most Aryans don't get skin cancer. And skin cancer isn't limited to Aryans, and can be even more deadly in non-Aryans. Also, the first vial (Revelation 16:2) refers to awful sores which don't have to be cancerous, and which will appear on only those people, and on all those people who will have received the Antichrist's mark and worshipped his image (Revelation 16:2). And these people will include all races, for the Antichrist will be worshipped by all races of the earth (Revelation 13:8, Revelation 13:3b-4). Neither the Antichrist, nor his mark, nor his image has come yet (Revelation 13:4-18). So the first vial (Revelation 16:2) can't have happened yet.

Any mistaken teaching which claims the Antichrist has already come and gone could be employed in the future by the real Antichrist to fool some Christians into thinking he isn't the Antichrist.

Hitler didn't fulfill the detailed references to the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) in Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 16:2-16, Revelation 19:19-21, and Revelation 20:4. Also, Hitler didn't fulfill other prophecies regarding the Antichrist (e.g. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-9, Daniel 11:31,36; cf. Matthew 24:15). The detailed prophecies regarding the Antichrist, just as the rest of the tribulation prophecies of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24, have never been fulfilled.

The "image of the beast" (Revelation 13:15) could be an android image of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) which the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 13:11-16, Revelation 19:20) could cause to be made after the Antichrist receives a terrible head wound (Revelation 13:3,14b). For this injury could leave the Antichrist's facial and bodily appearance permanently marred, and could render him unable to speak clearly, like someone after a bad stroke, so that the Antichrist won't want to appear or speak in public again.

Did you ever see that movie "Dave"? It had a President who was in a coma, so his handlers found a regular guy who looked exactly like the President, and had him be a public stand-in for the President. He was able to speak just like the President did. It could be like that with the Antichrist's image. It could be the Antichrist's "Dave", his double, that appears and speaks (Revelation 13:15) before the world instead of his wounded self. But instead of letting people think the Antichrist's android image is the Antichrist himself, the False Prophet could tell people from the beginning that the image isn't the Antichrist himself, but still fully represents him.

In Revelation 13:15, the original Greek word translated as "life" or "breath" (pneuma, G4151) can mean "spirit" in the sense of consciousness (1 Corinthians 2:11a, Luke 1:47), so that the android could appear to have a spirit, to have consciousness. The way this could be achieved would be through the android having wireless connections to huge banks of supercomputers running advanced artificial intelligence software. The False Prophet could claim that the Antichrist's consciousness dwells within the android by means of neural networks imprinted with the Antichrist's brain patterns. But this could be a lie, in that the android won't actually have the Antichrist's consciousness, or any true consciousness, but will only appear to have consciousness, by its being able to pass even the most stringent Turing Test. This is a test whereby one speaks with a computer and can't tell whether it has consciousness or not, because all its answers are the same as if it had consciousness.

But the android's "consciousness" could appear far more advanced than any human's, for it could have access to huge databases containing every fact known to man, so that the android will appear to be omniscient. In this way, it could convince the world that it's not just a machine, but a material incarnation, a machine avatar, of the true God, a literal "deus ex machina", a literal "God from a machine". And this machine "God" could boast not only of his mental powers, but also of his physical powers: he could be extremely strong. And he could boast of the "immortality" of his machine body, which could be made of titanium, covered with some practically-everlasting flesh-like silicone. People could just be completely awestruck by his (what they could call) "omniscient wisdom, his strength, his indestructibility". They could consider him more than worthy of worship by (in their words) "mere humanity, which is so mentally and physically limited, made out of mere flesh and blood, which is so weak and so mortal". The world will actually worship the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), just as it will actually worship Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9).

The Antichrist's image could be placed standing in the holy place (the inner sanctum) of a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, so that the image will become the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15, Daniel 11:31). And in order to make it easy for everyone in the world to be able to see the image and worship it (Revelation 13:15), it could appear on every smartphone, television, computer, GPS navigation system, and electronic billboard at set times each day. And to make it possible for everyone to interact with it personally, it could appear as a computer generated image on each individual's smartphone, speaking in and understanding each individual's language, conversing with each individual with personalized messages and responses devised by supercomputers running artificial intelligence and language software.

And it could discuss with them even the most intimate details of their lives, for it could have access to huge databases compiled by the Antichrist's worldwide intelligence, law enforcement, economic, and health agencies, databases containing all the facts about everyone: who their family and friends are, where they live and work, who their neighbors and coworkers are, how much they make, what cars and properties they own and use, where they go, where they shop, what they buy, where they eat out, what shows and videos they watch, what they read, what they say, what they post on the internet, what their health problems are, etc., so that the Antichrist's image could seem to know everything about everyone.

And the worship of the image could be connected with a daily surveillance and subjugation of everyone. For the image's supercomputers could make his image automatically appear on everyone's smartphone at set times each day to be worshipped. And smartphones contain GPS chips which can be secretly pinged in order to determine the exact location of the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could ping the GPS chip of everyone's smartphone and know exactly where everyone is.

Also, smartphones contain cameras and microphones, which can be remotely opened secretly in order to see and hear what's going on around the smartphones. So when the image appears on everyone's smartphone, the image's supercomputers could open the cameras and microphones of everyone's smartphone to determine what everyone is doing and saying, and the image could then demand that the individuals worship him as God, saying some set prayer of praise and adoration. And if any individual refuses, the image's supercomputers could detect that individual's noncompliance, and notify the nearest police officers of that individual's exact location, and order the officers to arrest that individual for blasphemy and treason. The offending individual could then be given a chance to be "reformed" (i.e. in a brainwashing camp, or through physical torture, if necessary), but if he proves recalcitrant, he will be executed (Revelation 13:15) by being beheaded (Revelation 20:4).

The beheading process itself could be made into a televised and webcasted spectacle, to serve not only as a dire warning to anyone thinking of refusing to worship the image, but also to serve as an amazingly-horrific entertainment for the masses, like how the ancient Romans made it an entertainment for the masses to gather them into the Colosseum in Rome and let them watch Christians being thrown to lions and devoured alive.

Huge beheading structures could be built, by which 20 "traitors" could be beheaded at one time by one fall of one blade. The "traitors" could be bound in a row along an upright "U"-shaped device with a track for a large guillotine blade, which could start out in a resting position at the top of one side. The blade could be so massive and so sharp that when it's released it will easily slice down through 10 necks on one side of the "U" and continue on by its own momentum up the other side of the "U", shearing off another 10 heads. This all could happen so quickly that it will appear as if all 20 heads are struck off almost in unison, followed immediately by 20 geysers of blood rushing out in unison for all the Antichrist's "faithful" to gawk at and cheer over in the comfort of their own homes before their televisions and computers.

Also, immediately after the show is over, at the site where it took place, teams of surgeons could rush in to "harvest" all the fresh organs and other body parts from the beheaded bodies to be used for transplants (beheading being the best way for a body to die if you want to harvest its parts). What's left of the bodies could then be stuffed into shipping containers, which, once full, could be stacked like stones into a gigantic "Pyramid of Death", which could eventually reach some 30 stories high and contain tens of millions of bodies. A huge plaque could be erected in front of the Pyramid that will read: "This is a monument to the shame of YHWH, who created everything to die". (Of course, the truth is that he didn't, for he created Adam and Eve immortal; it wasn't until they sinned that they became mortal: Genesis 2:17. And YHWH will restore immortality to saved humans through Jesus Christ: Romans 6:23. Also, any such plaque would be hypocritical, for it will be the Antichrist who will have murdered the people entombed in the Pyramid, not YHWH. And so it will actually be a monument to how those who hate YHWH and his wisdom, love death: Proverbs 8:36b.)

Regarding the worship of the Antichrist's image, to help foster a group dynamic, every neighborhood and village in the world could be helped to create a group worship center in which everyone in that neighborhood or village will have to gather together at a set time each evening to bow down and prostrate himself or herself before a life-size, lifelike image of the Antichrist, which could be a computer-generated, animated, holographic or widescreen 3D HDTV image of him clothed in beautiful golden robes and standing majestically before them (or sitting on a magnificent golden throne), and speaking computer-generated customized messages to them as a group.

This worship could be accompanied by the most beautiful symphonic music (cf. Daniel 3:5), or whatever is the most beautiful music to the local people, to help them (in the words of the Antichrist's propaganda machine) "Be uplifted into the true spirit of praise and worship of our Great Lord and Master. Praised be His Majestic Name forever and ever!", etc. And what with the wonderful music, and all their fellow worshippers around them, and customized messages of encouragement spoken in a deep, soothing voice by a life-size, holographic or 3D HDTV image of the Antichrist to certain members of each "worship group", it could be that some people in each group will start to really get into the evening worship sessions, and even begin to (in their words) "Truly feel the Living Presence of our loving God among us, loving us so tenderly, so personally! Oh, how I love Him! He is So Great!"

But the world's worship of the Antichrist's image (Revelation 13:15), no matter how blissful it may become for some people, and the world's worship of the Antichrist and Lucifer (Satan) the dragon (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9), will last for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:5, Daniel 12:11-12) before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and completely defeats the Antichrist and Lucifer, and the Antichrist's False Prophet (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3), and Jesus then sets up his own, 1,000-year physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29).

You are so wrong. Skin cancer does afflict most Aryans if they live long enough, and skin cancer rarely afflicts any other race. And skin cancer is the first plague to follow the great tribulation of WW II, and many NAZIs experienced it, and some died from it.

interpreter · Mar 26, 2014

Bible2 said:
Nothing has killed every living creature in the sea (Revelation 16:3b), which would include every living creature that causes red tides. So the 2nd vial can't have happened yet.

All the fish in the sea will be dead by 2048, scientists say.

All surface sources of fresh water haven't become blood (Revelation 16:4-6). So the 3rd vial hasn't happened yet.

We are in the early stages of most of the plagues.

Even though global warming exists, it doesn't cause men to be scorched with fire shot out from the sun (Revelation 16:8). So the 4th vial/plague can't have happened yet. It would be a solar-flare coronal mass ejection of solar plasma which could make its way down to the surface of the earth due to the earth's magnetic field being disrupted during a magnetic pole reversal which could occur near the end of the future tribulation.

John would not have understood the concept of greenhouse gases. All he knew was that the heat from the sun would grow warmer.

The darkness of Revelation 16:10 will be literal darkness, like the plague of Exodus 10:21 was literal darkness. Also, there will be no atheism allowed anywhere when the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect the beast) takes over the whole world (Revelation 13:7b) in our future and declares himself to be God (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36), and the whole unsaved world worships him and Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) (Revelation 13:4,8, Revelation 12:9). Also, Revelation 16:10 says the Antichrist's "kingdom" will be darkened, and his kingdom will include the whole world (Revelation 13:7b). The whole world hasn't been darkened, so the 5th vial hasn't happened yet.

Darkness is something that opposes the light of the Gospel. Atheism is the fastest growing segment of darkness. And we are experiencing new diseases such as AIDS, MRSA and flesh-eating bacteria.

The Euphrates drying up in Revelation 16:12 has never happened, because it's not referring to only part of the river drying up, but all of it, so that the armies of "the kings of the east" (Revelation 16:12) (that is, the vast armies of China, India, Pakistan, Japan, Iran, Indonesia) can easily cross the dry riverbed and gather for battle in Israel (Revelation 16:14,16, Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:2-3). That's something else which has never happened. So the 6th seal can't have happened yet.

LOL. 50 miles is plenty wide enough for an army to cross.

Also, regarding the following, relevant article:

Group Hopes to Restore Iraq Marsh Culture - ABC News

Can you quote the part of that article that you feel supports your claim that the only reason that Saddam Hussein dried up the Euphrates was to prepare the way for the kings of the east? For that article explains that he dried up only some marshes, and to attack some rebels in his own territory: "Some of the Iraqis who rebelled against Saddam took refuge in the marshes after the uprisings failed. 'Saddam could not follow them up with the tanks and armored weapons, so instead he set about drying the marshes'".

The drying up of the marshes was an added benefit, but not the main purpose of drying up the Euphrates (as evidenced by the name he chose for the diversion canal that accomplished it, i.e., the Mother of All Battles River).

Also, how does the following part of the article explain what Saddam Hussein himself meant by "the Mother of All Battles"?:

"Dark colors show large areas of wetland before Saddam began building his huge project to drain and control the Euphrates River. Then, as the Mother Of All Battles Canal siphoned water away from the Euphrates, the Tigris and the marshes, the wetlands on the Iraqi side of the border disappeared."

Could he have meant a huge war that he intended to start (again) between Iraq and Iran? For, as the article goes on to say:

"Two things may have driven Saddam's drain-the-marshes project. First, oil is buried beneath the wetlands, and drying them out improves access for development. Second, there were military issues — even before Saddam's repression of the uprisings that followed the 1991 Gulf War. During Iraq's 1980-88 war with neighboring Iran, the marshes were often targeted because they were an infiltration route and guerrilla battleground".

Per Strong's Concordance and Greek and Hebrew Dictionary, in Revelation 16:16 the original Greek word "Armageddon" (G0717) comes from the Hebrew words "har" (H2022) and "Megiddown" (H4023).

The Hebrew word "har" (H2022) when used before a place name means "the mount of", like it's used in Judges 2:9 to refer to "the mount of" Ephraim. And the Hebrew word "Megiddown" or "Megiddow" (H4023) refers to the place called "Megiddo", which is in northern Israel (Joshua 17:11, Judges 1:27, Judges 5:19; 1 Chronicles 7:29).

So "Armageddon" (G0717), "har" (H2022) "Megiddown" (H4023), refers to the "the mount of Megiddo". This is a hill that overlooks a large valley in northern Israel. It's in this valley of Armageddon that the world's armies will gather (Revelation 16:14,16), using it as only a staging area before they proceed south to pillage Jerusalem right before Jesus returns and defeats them (Zechariah 14:2-21, Revelation 19:19-21).

The Hebrew word "Megiddown" or "Megiddow" (H4023) means "rendezvous" (Strong's Hebrew Dictionary), as it's derived from the Hebrew word "gadad" (H1413) which can be translated as "gather themselves together" (Psalms 94:21) or "gather thyself in troops" (Micah 5:1) or "assembled themselves by troops" (Jeremiah 5:7).

Ar means city, and mageddon means sanctuary. It is obviously a reference to Jerusalem, home to three sanctuaries. (And in the end, Jerusalem is split three ways).

Revelation 16:21 refers to 100-pound hailstones which will be literal hailstones, just as the plagues of hailstones from God in Exodus 9:25 and Joshua 10:11 were literal hailstones. Also, the 100-pound hailstones in Revelation 16:21 will plague mankind in general, and only after the never-fulfilled first 6 vials have all been fulfilled in our future. Also at the 7th vial, right before Jesus returns (Revelation 16:17,19, Revelation 19:2-21), there will be a huge earthquake which will affect the whole world (Revelation 16:18-20). And Revelation's symbolic (and worldwide) "Babylon" (Revelation chapters 17-18) will be destroyed when the cities of the earth are destroyed at the time of the 7th vial (Revelation 16:19). None of these things has happened yet. So the 7th vial hasn't happened yet.

LOL. It is impossible for literal hailstones to weigh 100 pounds each.

By the 7th head of the beast, do you mean Islam?

For the 7 heads of the beast in its empire aspect (Revelation 13:1, Revelation 17:3) represent 7 different empires (Revelation 17:9-10): Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome, and (possibly) Islam. The first 5 had fallen by the time of John the apostle in the first century AD: "five are fallen" (Revelation 17:10, Revelation 1:1b-2). The 6th (Rome) existed at the time of John: "one is" (Revelation 17:10). The 7th (possibly Islam) hadn't come by the time of John: "the other is not yet come" (Revelation 17:10). The empire of the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be a different, still-future, 8th head (Revelation 17:11), which will be a revival of one of the 5 empires that had fallen by the time of John (Revelation 17:8,10,11). It will be a revival of the empire of Babylon. The Antichrist will transform the present-day, rebuilt city of Babylon (in Iraq) into the capital of his world empire, only to see his city of Babylon ultimately destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming (Isaiah 13).

Before the 2nd coming, when the world is brought into the worship of Lucifer (the dragon, Satan) and the Antichrist, during the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9), the Antichrist will build their main temple in the city of Babylon. For a temple to "wickedness" will be built in Shinar (Babylonia) (Zechariah 5:8,11), and the Antichrist is called "that Wicked" (2 Thessalonians 2:8). Also, the dragon has been the god worshipped in the city of Babylon since ancient times.

The Antichrist may claim to be Nebuchadnezzar returned, and so reinstitute the system that Nebuchadnezzar set up whereby everyone had to worship an image or be killed (Daniel 3, Revelation 13:15). The Antichrist may also claim to be, at the same time, the return of Nimrod (the founder of Babylon: Genesis 10:8-10), and Hammurabi, and Asoka, and other famous rulers of the past. For he may claim that he has had many different "past lives" as various "enlightened" rulers.

Besides building a main temple in Babylon, the Antichrist will also sit (at least one time) in a future, 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem, and declare himself God there (2 Thessalonians 2:4, Daniel 11:36,31, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). The Antichrist could also sit (at least one time) in other religions' holiest shrines, and declare himself to be God there as well. For example, he could also sit in Islam's Kaaba in Mecca, in the Sikhs' Golden Temple in Amritsar, in Catholicism's St. Peter's Basilica in the Vatican, etc.

Yes, the 7th head of the beast is Islamic conquerors who trampled Jerusalem underfoot for 1260 years as prophesied, Their time is up, but they want to rule Jerusalem again, and are hell-bent on fighting the Battle of Ar Mageddon (which they call the Mother of All Battles, and think they'll win).

random person · Mar 27, 2014

Biblewriter said:
Why do you continue to rely upon the words of human teachers instead of the pure word of God?

You continually give the words of men to back up your nonsense.

If you had any real knowledge of the scriptures, you could defend your ideas from scripture.

You exposed yourself when you first came here as a rabid hater of the doctrine we teach, and you continue to expose yourself as basically ignorant of what we actually teach and unable to defend your ideas from scripture.

But your current nonsense goes over the top. You cite an event that you claim took place five hundred years before the time you claim the prophecy in question was given. And then you claim that that event was a fulfillment of that prophecy? It would be difficult to come up with a more ridiculous theory.

It is all about understanding the oriental poetic language of the prophetic writings.

Let's not forget Titus and Vespasian crossed the Euphrates from Syria. Knuckleheads keep looking east of Israel to Iraq but they fail to see north of Israel to Syria is also the Euphrates. Now look at any map of the Davidic and Solomonic united kingdoms that God indeed fulfilled the land promises He gave to Abraham already. There are multiple verses that flat out support and confirm this. DONT LOOK EAST TO IRAQ LOOK NORTH TO SYRIA!

Furthermore, compare the prophecies of Babylon (Isa. 13:10), of Edom (Isa. 34:4), and of Egypt (Ezek. 32:7-8) and compare their imagery with the imagery found Revelation.

Preterist David Clark writes:

"It may doubtless be taken for granted that these convulsions of nature were seen in vision and are not to be looked upon as actual occurrances. As no one would assume that the four horses actually rode over the Earth, but were symbolical representations of things that were to happen, so these convulsions of nature were probably to be understood in the same."

And again,

"I am not sure but that it is a feature of biblical symbolism to make sun, moon, and stars, and such phenomena to represent the strong social and political powers, or men in high places like kings, princes, or priests, or high officials of church and state. And in confirmation you will notice that the following verses refer to just such men, as if to be a sort of commentary on these symbols."

J Stuart Russell writes,

"Prophecy is poetry, and oriental poetry also, in which gorgeous symbolical imagery is the vesture of thought. Besides, the objection is based upon an inadequate estimate of the real significance and importance of the destruction of Jerusalem . . . It was a grand providential epoch; the winding up of a great period in the divine government of the world."

Bible2 · Mar 28, 2014

random person said in post 31:

Furthermore, compare the prophecies of Babylon (Isa. 13:10), of Edom (Isa. 34:4), and of Egypt (Ezek. 32:7-8) and compare their imagery with the imagery found Revelation.

To properly understand the timing of Isaiah 13:10, it must be read in its context (Isaiah 13:1-22).

In Isaiah 13:1, "Babylon" isn't the ancient city of Babylon, but the present-day city of Babylon (in Iraq), which the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will transform into his world capital during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. (See the last section of post 27.)

In Isaiah 13:3, the "sanctified ones" who "rejoice in [YHWH's] highness" are the obedient people in the church in Revelation 19:7-8, after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will be, in Isaiah 13:4-5, the "host of the battle" from "heaven", when they physically descend from the sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus as he wages war against the world's armies at his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:14-21). So in Isaiah 13:6,9, the "day of the Lord" is the same as the future, 2nd-coming day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

Isaiah 13:10 refers to the same, future, 2nd-coming time as Matthew 24:29-31.

Isaiah 13:11 refers to Jesus' defeat of the world's armies at his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Isaiah 13:16 refers not to what Jesus or the church will do, but to what some unsaved "Medes" (Isaiah 13:17-18) will do to the inhabitants of the city of Babylon at the time of Jesus' 2nd coming. By "Medes" is meant the native inhabitants of that part of the Middle East that in ancient times was called "Media" and is now part of Iraq.

In Isaiah 13:17, the "Medes" aren't the ancient Medes that conquered the ancient city of Babylon (Daniel 5:28,31). For the ancient Medes didn't make the ancient city of Babylon uninhabited (Isaiah 13:19-22) when they defeated it, but instead kept it as a thriving city which continued on for centuries.

In Isaiah 13:19-22, the total and eternal destruction of the city of Babylon has never been fulfilled. For Saddam Hussein rebuilt the city of Babylon (using bricks he inscribed with "built by Saddam Hussein, son of Nebuchadnezzar"). And after his defeat, U.S. forces built a military base in Babylon. And in the future, the Antichrist will transform the city of Babylon into his world capital. Isaiah 13:19-22 won't be fulfilled until this city is destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming.

random person said in post 31:

Furthermore, compare the prophecies of Babylon (Isa. 13:10), of Edom (Isa. 34:4), and of Egypt (Ezek. 32:7-8) and compare their imagery with the imagery found Revelation.

To properly understand Isaiah 34:4, it should be read in its context (Isaiah 34:1-17).

Isaiah 34:4 refers to a future event which will affect "all nations" (Isaiah 34:2), the whole world (Isaiah 34:1).

In Isaiah 34:5, "Idumea" (Edom) isn't the ancient nation of Edom (present-day southern Jordan), but represents all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world, just as Paul the apostle employs a reference to the man "Esau" (also called Edom: Genesis 25:30, Genesis 36:1) to represent all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world (Romans 9:11-22). And in Isaiah 34:6, "Bozrah" isn't the ancient city of Bozrah, but represents the corrupt civilizations of the nonelect people of all times throughout the world, just as the "Babylon" which will be destroyed in our future in Revelation chapters 17-18 isn't the literal ancient city of Babylon (nor the present-day one, in Iraq), but represents the corrupt civilizations of the nonelect people of all times throughout the world.

Isaiah 34 doesn't refer to the destruction of the ancient city of Bozrah. For its territory is in present-day Jordan, and it's still inhabited (it could be the city of Busaira). It's not an eternally-burning land of fire and brimstone which no living person ever passes through and won't ever pass through for all eternity (Isaiah 34:9-10).

Isaiah 34 won't be fulfilled until the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), when the present surface of the earth and its atmosphere (the 1st heaven) will pass away (Revelation 20:11). And all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world will be judged and cast into the eternal lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:15,10, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 14:10-11).

random person said in post 31:

Furthermore, compare the prophecies of Babylon (Isa. 13:10), of Edom (Isa. 34:4), and of Egypt (Ezek. 32:7-8) and compare their imagery with the imagery found Revelation.

Ezekiel 32:7 refers to a literal cloud covering the sun as part of God "setting darkness upon thy land" (Ezekiel 32:8) as a punishment, just as the literal darkness in Exodus 10:22-23 was a punishment.

random person said in post 31:

Furthermore, compare the prophecies of Babylon (Isa. 13:10), of Edom (Isa. 34:4), and of Egypt (Ezek. 32:7-8) and compare their imagery with the imagery found Revelation.

Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

random person · Mar 28, 2014

Bible2 said:
To properly understand the timing of Isaiah 13:10, it must be read in its context (Isaiah 13:1-22).

In Isaiah 13:1, "Babylon" isn't the ancient city of Babylon, but the present-day city of Babylon (in Iraq), which the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") will transform into his world capital during the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. (See the last section of post 27.)

In Isaiah 13:3, the "sanctified ones" who "rejoice in [YHWH's] highness" are the obedient people in the church in Revelation 19:7-8, after the future tribulation of Revelation chapters 6 to 18 and Matthew 24. They will be, in Isaiah 13:4-5, the "host of the battle" from "heaven", when they physically descend from the sky (the 1st heaven) with Jesus as he wages war against the world's armies at his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:14-21). So in Isaiah 13:6,9, the "day of the Lord" is the same as the future, 2nd-coming day of the Lord (1 Corinthians 1:7-8; 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8; 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10).

Isaiah 13:10 refers to the same, future, 2nd-coming time as Matthew 24:29-31.

Isaiah 13:11 refers to Jesus' defeat of the world's armies at his 2nd coming (Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-21).

Isaiah 13:16 refers not to what Jesus or the church will do, but to what some unsaved "Medes" (Isaiah 13:17-18) will do to the inhabitants of the city of Babylon at the time of Jesus' 2nd coming. By "Medes" is meant the native inhabitants of that part of the Middle East that in ancient times was called "Media" and is now part of Iraq.

In Isaiah 13:17, the "Medes" aren't the ancient Medes that conquered the ancient city of Babylon (Daniel 5:28,31). For the ancient Medes didn't make the ancient city of Babylon uninhabited (Isaiah 13:19-22) when they defeated it, but instead kept it as a thriving city which continued on for centuries.

In Isaiah 13:19-22, the total and eternal destruction of the city of Babylon has never been fulfilled. For Saddam Hussein rebuilt the city of Babylon (using bricks he inscribed with "built by Saddam Hussein, son of Nebuchadnezzar"). And after his defeat, U.S. forces built a military base in Babylon. And in the future, the Antichrist will transform the city of Babylon into his world capital. Isaiah 13:19-22 won't be fulfilled until this city is destroyed at Jesus' 2nd coming.

To properly understand Isaiah 34:4, it should be read in its context (Isaiah 34:1-17).

Isaiah 34:4 refers to a future event which will affect "all nations" (Isaiah 34:2), the whole world (Isaiah 34:1).

In Isaiah 34:5, "Idumea" (Edom) isn't the ancient nation of Edom (present-day southern Jordan), but represents all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world, just as Paul the apostle employs a reference to the man "Esau" (also called Edom: Genesis 25:30, Genesis 36:1) to represent all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world (Romans 9:11-22). And in Isaiah 34:6, "Bozrah" isn't the ancient city of Bozrah, but represents the corrupt civilizations of the nonelect people of all times throughout the world, just as the "Babylon" which will be destroyed in our future in Revelation chapters 17-18 isn't the literal ancient city of Babylon (nor the present-day one, in Iraq), but represents the corrupt civilizations of the nonelect people of all times throughout the world.

Isaiah 34 doesn't refer to the destruction of the ancient city of Bozrah. For its territory is in present-day Jordan, and it's still inhabited (it could be the city of Busaira). It's not an eternally-burning land of fire and brimstone which no living person ever passes through and won't ever pass through for all eternity (Isaiah 34:9-10).

Isaiah 34 won't be fulfilled until the great white throne judgment (Revelation 20:11-15), when the present surface of the earth and its atmosphere (the 1st heaven) will pass away (Revelation 20:11). And all the nonelect people of all times throughout the world will be judged and cast into the eternal lake of fire and brimstone (Revelation 20:15,10, Revelation 21:8, Revelation 14:10-11).

Ezekiel 32:7 refers to a literal cloud covering the sun as part of God "setting darkness upon thy land" (Ezekiel 32:8) as a punishment, just as the literal darkness in Exodus 10:22-23 was a punishment.

Revelation is almost entirely literal, for it's unsealed (Revelation 22:10), meaning it shouldn't be difficult for saved people of any time to understand it if they simply read it as it's written: chronologically and almost-entirely literally. The few parts of it that are symbolic are almost always explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 1:20, Revelation 17:9-12). And Revelation's few symbols not explained afterward (e.g. Revelation 13:2) are usually explained elsewhere in the Bible (e.g. Daniel 7:4-7,17).

Just as Jesus' 2nd coming in Revelation 19:7 to 20:3 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally, so the events of the preceding tribulation in Revelation chapters 6 to 18 will be fulfilled almost entirely literally. Also, the millennium in Revelation 20 will be literal, and will begin after Jesus' 2nd coming (Revelation 19:7 to 20:6, Zechariah 14:3-21), when he will reign on the earth with the bodily resurrected church for 1,000 years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11). After that, the events of Revelation 20:7 to 22:5 will occur literally.

You're wrong about Babylon and the rest of your post is your own personal suppositions:

Verse 20. - It shall never be inhabited. This part of the prophecy did not receive its fulfillment till many centuries had gone by. From the time of Cyrus to that of Alexander the Great, Babylon was one of the chief cities of the Persian empire. Alexander was so struck with it, and with the excellence of its situation, that he designed to make it his capital. It first began seriously to decline under the Seleucidae, who built Seleucia on the Tigris as a rival to it, and still further injured it by fixing the seat of government at Antioch. But it had still a large population in the first century after our era (Josephus, 'Ant. Jud.,' 18:9, § 8); and is mentioned as a place of some consequence in the time of Trajan (Die Cass., 68:27), and even in that of Severue (Die Cass., 75:9). But after this it went rapidly to decay. Under the Sassuntans it disappears from sight; and when Benjamin of Tudela, in the twelfth century, visited the spot, there was nothing to be seen of the mighty city but those ruins of the Kasr, or palace, which still arrest the traveler's attention. The site had become, and has ever since remained, "without inhabitant." Neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there. A superstitious feeling prevents the Arabs from encamping on the mounds of Babylon, which are believed to be the haunts of evil spirits (Rich, 'First Memoir on Babylon,' p. 67; Ker Porter, 'Travels,' vol. 2. p. 371). Neither shall the shepherds make their fold there. The nitrous soil of the Babylonian mounds allows them to produce nothing but the coarsest and most unpalatable vegetation. The shepherds consequently do not feed their flocks on them.

Isaiah 13:20 She will never be inhabited or lived in through all generations; there no nomads will pitch their tents, there no shepherds will rest their flocks.

Lujack Skylark · Mar 31, 2014

Turkey is drying up the Euphrates river now by daming up the river. Revelation 16:12 says the Euphrates river will be dried up when the sixth angel poured out his vial. Syria and Iraq need the water from the Euphrates so Turkey's dams will likely be blown up in future warfare so water can flow freely. Then in the tribulation the sixth angel will dry up the Euphrates river.

interpreter · Apr 1, 2014

Lujack Skylark said:
Turkey is drying up the Euphrates river now by daming up the river. Revelation 16:12 says the Euphrates river will be dried up when the sixth angel poured out his vial. Syria and Iraq need the water from the Euphrates so Turkey's dams will likely be blown up in future warfare so water can flow freely. Then in the tribulation the sixth angel will dry up the Euphrates river.

The Euphrates was dry on 9/11. The lower 50 miles of the Euphrates was dry for 9 years, from May of 1994 to April of 2003. It was dried up by Saddam Hussein to prepare the way for the kings of the east as prophesied. He did it with a couple dams and a diversion canal that he called the Mother of All Battles River.

shturt678s · Apr 1, 2014

Rev.16:12, "Euphrates. And there dried up its warter so that ready was made the way of the kings,"

I think if we back peddle to the symbolism in Rev.9:14, we can arrive at the one valid interpretation of Rev.16:12 where Satan is personally loosed in v.13.

Old Jack thinking out loud again?

Must be April Fools Day again.

Drying of the Euphrates River is a symbolic analogy

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