Agreed, even teaching communal authority to the various congregations abroad.
I am not sure I understand what this means in regard to what we are talking about? Please clarify.
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Messianic Halakha
- Thread starter Torah Lishmah
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Agreed, even teaching communal authority to the various congregations abroad.
I am not sure I understand what this means in regard to what we are talking about? Please clarify.
A
annier
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I understand what you are saying Avodat. But I am only speaking from my experience. Which experience might not reflect the experience of others.
What I have seen of the movement is the purpose changing, then the teaching changing to agree with the purpose.
But first let me back up a bit.
Please keep in mind when I speak of MJ, I speak to the "shift" reflected in the name change from Hebrew Christian, to Messianic Jew/ish.
The difference seems to be the movement (shift) was founded or based upon "events", not so much theological belief. It was mainly "event" driven.
These events eventually lead to theological shifts.
1st event
Large influx of Jew's coming to faith.
Purpose: to create communities to accomodate Jewish believers to feel more comfortable and to aid in evangelization of Jew's.
2nd event
Rabbinic Jewish community not favorable. Bring legitimate criticism upon Messianics
Purpose: Shift to more strict agreement to Rabbinic requirements.
3rd event (Could be simultaneous to the second event not sure).
Large influx of Gentiles to Messianic congregations. With all their various ideas of why Messianic was for them. Many, having to do with disagreement with "whatever churches" they were against.
These "events" Are what shifted both the purpose as well as their theologies to respond to these events.
Theology never was the driving force for Mjism in the beginning. Doctrine began to shift depending upon events, much of which was not foreseen, and unintended.
Other groups historically were formed from a theology which differed.
Just a loose over view of things from my experience as an mj.
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Shimshon
Well-Known Member
Not a bad overview from my experience as well, annier.
Event 1 = Hebrew Christianity (Hebrew Roots)
Event 2 = Messianic Judaism (Jewish Roots)
Event 3 = Messianism (One Law)
One could also corespond these with another three events long ago;
Event 1 = Abraham
Event 2 = Moses
Event 3 = Yeshua
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Messianic Jewboy
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In certain circles theology is becoming an driving force like the UMJC. The MJAA isn't on a theological path.
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Steve Petersen
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One should consider the Didache. It could well represent apostolic direction for Gentiles. It seems to be the earliest catechism in the Christian world.
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I have to disagree with that. The Messianic Judaism movement that arose in the 1960s and 70s was created for the purpose of effectively evangelizing the Jews. A change in theology was absolutely necessary in order to achieve that goal.
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A
annier
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Actually Messianic Judaism was in response to an influx of Jews coming to faith in the 60's and 70's. Therefore Jew's had already become evangelized, and Messianic Judaism came about because of that. But, Gentiles started pouring in instead of Jew's. That is when theology issues began to arise, like "one law", "two house" etc.
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annier
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You know I was just thinking of another Issue. There are so many various views of how and why Messianic Judaism started. Each group seems bent on their own views even on that. It seems it's very short history cannot even be settled, how on earth do they suppose they will establish what was apostolic Judaism of 2000 years ago? Many cannot even agree on what was 40-50 years ago?
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That's odd, everything I've read on the origins of the modern Messianic movement states the opposite.
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A
annier
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Who have you read? And what have you read about their theology?
Messianic Jewish Alliance of America (MJAA) 1915 Formerly known as Hebrew Christian Alliance of America, MJAA renamed itself in 1975 to Messianic Jewish Alliance of America to change tactics in evangelism and to coincide with terminology changes in the wider movement.[3] MJAA General secretary Joel Chernoff Springfield, Pennsylvania
as you can see from this modern "Messianic Judaism" began in 1975.
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A
aniello
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Many of we, who are born Jews, view those Jews who came to belief and faithfulnesss that Y'shua is the promised Messiah in the earlier chapters of the Acts as the first Jews that were Messianic, i.e. Messianic Jews. Although most of us have been exposed(like to mumps and measles) to the 3rd String Team of what dares to call itself MJ in these modern pop-religion times many of us have pursued an old dependable association, which allows us to remain, in actuality, with the real Jewish Community in our respective areas. The 2nd String Team religion is where those that departed from Biblical authority, probably about the time of Ignatius of Antioch, and those that follow him, and eventually head off to be RCC, the Orthodoxies and eventually Catholo-Protestantism. The recent MJ we perceive to be ersatzejuden-ism and packs so much church baggage it is blight on real Jews who are Messianic and a cheap caricature of Judaism. Sure hasn't emptied any traditional synagogues that I've heard of.
What started 50-60 years ago and has appropriated the MJ moniker seems to be no more than a come lately religious fad overrun by non-Jews.
I know this not a popular view but it is as demonstrated(Q.E.D.) as we used to say in Calculus.
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A
aniello
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If MJ was Judenrein you'd be more comfortable with it?
What would "they learn from the past lessons of the church."??
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A
annier
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I might agree with this if I understood some of your terms.
But then again what does it matter? Unless people are willing to sit down and have councils to define these things even such a short history is up for grabs of whatever fad comes along. That is the really sad thing IMO.
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pat34lee
Messianic
I had to look that up and no, I have no problem with Jews or anyone else. You chose a nazi term for a reason. Why?
The Catholic church brought in many pagans by incorporating their festivals and traditions and renaming them as Christian. MJ is doing the same with rabbinic traditions and laws.
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Avodat
Contending for Biblical truth
You are about 100 years out on that, unless you meant 1860-70
Its origin is actually well documented. In historical terms, 'modern history' doesn't just cover the 20th century.Read up on Rabbi Yosef Rabinowitz and Paul Levertoff (his ancestor was the founder of Chabad Judaism) in the UK in mid to late 19th century which was a time of increased evangelism of Jews in the UK, epitomised by the election of Benjamin Disraeli as the first Jewish Prime Minister (and also the first and only Messianic Jew to hold that office).
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