Law and Theology

nikolai_42 · Feb 5, 2003

There was an interesting question posed on the latest Law and Order that got my wife and I to discussing. I was curious as to what the response is here.

 The generic situation is that of a man (or, if we want to get past the biblical requirement for 2 or 3 witnesses, 3 men) who has (have independently) claimed that he (they) has (have) been told by God that another man must die. The western judicial system is in large part a Godless institution (or is portrayed as such) inasmuch as faith is all but legislated out of acceptance. So when a man claims to have been told by God to do something like kill a man, he is either considered crazy or scheming. The thought rarely crosses the mind that he in fact may be doing what the Lord has instructed.

Now, I'm not saying that everyone or anyone who claims this is right, but in theory is there anything that dictates that this could never be the case? Besides the general inclination of thought that it seems absurd, how would we respond to God telling us to kill someone - much less our own son?

Any thoughts?

Homie · Feb 6, 2003

God has only once has something to sacrifice their son, and it was only a test, he did stop Abraham going through with it. I doubt God would order the killing of a specific individual as he never ordered it in the Bible, not even once. Anyway, even if a person was told by God to assasinate someone we cannot take that into accountability, how would we know if he was crazy, telling the truth or even demon-possessed (the devil told him to). If he succeeded and it was from God then Gods will has been done and even though he may be executed or sentenced to life imprisonment he probably was aware of this when he decided to follow Gods order.

Mother Vashti · Feb 6, 2003

The method of contact with the man is not like God. Does God tell us, "Such and such will happen" when we pray for guidance or do the events simply line up in our favor, over and above our best expectations? In other words, God does not "answer" in the conventional sense of the word.

Demons are more likely to answer in the fashion that this man claims, ...but I think he's just schizophrenic.

Homie · Feb 7, 2003

God does not "answer" in the conventional sense of the word

Not usually, but it does happen.

slightlypuzzled · Feb 10, 2003

I would feel like Gideon, give me some signs and let me see you Lord.

Magisterium · Feb 11, 2003

Believe it or not, there is indeed a name for the scenario you just stated. It's called "private revelation". In the case of private revelation, the message of the revelation must be evaluated by the church to determine if it's actually from God. (The Holy Spirit isn't the only spirit out there) The church takes into consideration the nature of the revelation, it's coherence, it's consistency with scripture and Church teaching. All these matters must be weighed carefully.

However, it is necessary to state that in the case of an instruction to take someone's life, we already know that this is a form of judgement and that scripture as well as church teaching explain that Judgement belongs to the Lord alone. However, a case such as this is precisely why Jesus left us with an authority in these matters.

Mt:18:17 "And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican."

Jesus says the church is the final say.

nikolai_42 · Feb 11, 2003

Today at 04:35 AM A_B_liever said this in Post #6

Believe it or not, there is indeed a name for the scenario you just stated. It's called "private revelation". In the case of private revelation, the message of the revelation must be evaluated by the church to determine if it's actually from God. (The Holy Spirit isn't the only spirit out there) The church takes into consideration the nature of the revelation, it's coherence, it's consistency with scripture and Church teaching. All these matters must be weighed carefully.

However, it is necessary to state that in the case of an instruction to take someone's life, we already know that this is a form of judgement and that scripture as well as church teaching explain that Judgement belongs to the Lord alone. However, a case such as this is precisely why Jesus left us with an authority in these matters.

Mt:18:17 "And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican."

Jesus says the church is the final say.

....does that mean the church is to issue the death penalty on those who deserve it (replacing the existing justice system)?

Homie · Feb 11, 2003

[A_B_liever
Mt:18:17 "And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican."

Jesus says the church is the final say.

I disagree. You have taken the verse out of context. Jesus was speaking about a fellow christian brother turning wicked. So he says that we (his christian brothers) must speak to him (to help him back on the right path), and if he won't hear us, let the church speak to him, and if he won't hear them either he shall be like a pagan to us. Jesus does not speak of authority here.

....does that mean the church is to issue the death penalty on those who deserve it (replacing the existing justice system)?

No the church should not take on the burden of becoming a judicial system. But I think that if our current judicial system would be in violation with Gods word we should ignore these laws and follow Gods word.

Andrew · Feb 14, 2003

Now, I'm not saying that everyone or anyone who claims this is right, but in theory is there anything that dictates that this could never be the case? Besides the general inclination of thought that it seems absurd, how would we respond to God telling us to kill someone - much less our own son?

anyone that knows his Bible will know that God will never tell anyone to go kill anyone. That instruction comes from the devil, not God. Whatever you hear from "God" must line up with the Word. -- "The Word was God".

nikolai_42 · Feb 14, 2003

Today at 04:57 AM Andrew said this in Post #9

anyone that knows his Bible will know that God will never tell anyone to go kill anyone. That instruction comes from the devil, not God. Whatever you hear from "God" must line up with the Word. -- "The Word was God".

 What of when God told the Israelites to kill their 'neighbours'? (Exodus 23:31-33 and Deut 20:10-18)? Was that from the devil? And again, when God told Abraham to kill Isaac?

 The word is not the Word. The Spirit is what must be known.

JohnR7 · Feb 14, 2003

5th February 2003 at 11:25 PM nikolai_42 said this in Post #1 how would we respond to God telling us to kill someone - much less our own son? Any thoughts?

I respond by saying: Thank God we live under Grace and not the Law. Becasue if we were under the law there would be a lot less people alive today than what there is.

In a spiritual sense like Abraham, we do have to put our son on the alter. We offer them up to God as a living sacrifice. We commit ourselves to raising them to be the person God wants them to be.

We are told that Abraham really was going to kill his son, because he believed God would raise him from the dead, because God had already promised to make a great nation out of his son and Abraham believed that God would do just that.

Abraham had a lot of faith. I might have tired my son up and put him on the alter, but I do not think I could ever kill anyone, much less my own son.

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Law and Theology

nikolai_42

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nikolai_42

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