Who are the broken branches?

HannibalFlavius

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We do not know when Paul wrote that they were broken off.

Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Satan is anyone who is in opposition to God's will.


You think this is talking to people who have done away with the Torah, the Passover, the Shavuot, the Sukkot, Yom Kippor, Firstfruits, Simchat Torah, and anything of God's ways?


People are claiming to be Jews by stripping everything away from a Jew that would actually make him a Jew.

If a Gentile believes in Jesus and rejects all of God's particular ways, and respect of the commandments of God, so that he has no trace of any Jewishness or relation to a Jewish Messiah, is that the real Jew?


Jesus must be talking to anyone who does not look Jewish, and the rest of the people who follow all God's commandments with Jewish blood must be fake Jews who only claim to be Jews.



LOL!


If it walks like a duck, it could not be a duck.


Who are the real Jews Cherub?
 
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daq

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Why were they in hiding during the days of Elijah, if they be hidden are they not broken off the family tree?

Huh? The entire tree is hidden in allegories and analogies. Just because one does not boast about his pedigree or lay out his genealogy for you does not mean he is broken off from the tree. It is like Nazareth which is a "city" only in the sense that it concerns a set-apart sect or community within a larger nationality; a "city" of a people within a great city of peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues; a fluid congregational sector that sojourns within a greater population block, (called out ones but not called out from the world). How can it be that those would be the ones cut off or broken off if the Father has them in "reserve" as ones truly having the truth? In fact if they withhold what they know from you then it is your own heavens which are shut. If you find one of these it will likely be the only time you will ever meet one in your lifetime: attach yourself to his hem for as long as he will put up with you. ^_^
 
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HannibalFlavius

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17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches

24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!

What is Contrary?
It doesn't make sense to graft a useless wild olive to a cultivated olive tree.

You would graft the cultivated olive branches to the stalk of the useless tree.

The tree is still living and you being grafted to its roots supports your worthlessness, you take of its sap, and you being from a useless wild olive.


Gentiles only share in the root, the stalk and the other branches, if the worthless branches replaced all the cultivated then there is a problem.

Just thinking out loud.
 
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mercy1061

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We do not know when Paul wrote that they were broken off.

Revelation 2:9
I know your afflictions and your poverty—yet you are rich! I know about the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9
I will make those who are of the synagogue of Satan, who claim to be Jews though they are not, but are liars—I will make them come and fall down at your feet and acknowledge that I have loved you.

Satan is anyone who is in opposition to God's will.

I think Pharisee Shaul paints a PICTURE for us placed inside a time FRAME when he mentions Elijah and the remnant. What occured in the days of King Ahab and Jezebel? Did not the nation of Israel family tree, reject Elijah for speaking the truth?
 
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mercy1061

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Huh? The entire tree is hidden in allegories and analogies. Just because one does not boast about his pedigree or lay out his genealogy for you does not mean he is broken off from the tree. It is like Nazareth which is a "city" only in the sense that it concerns a set-apart sect or community within a larger nationality; a "city" of a people within a great city of peoples, multitudes, nations, and tongues; a fluid congregational sector that sojourns within a greater population block, (called out ones but not called out from the world). How can it be that those would be the ones cut off or broken off if the Father has them in "reserve" as ones truly having the truth? In fact if they withhold what they know from you then it is your own heavens which are shut. If you find one of these it will likely be the only time you will ever meet one in your lifetime: attach yourself to his hem for as long as he will put up with you. ^_^

If you saw a branch laying on the ground, the wind probably broke that dead branch off the family tree? That branch was rejected because of the wind. Would you agree?
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I think Pharisee Shaul paints a PICTURE for us placed inside a time FRAME when he mentions Elijah and the remnant. What occured in the days of King Ahab and Jezebel? Did not the nation of Israel family tree, reject Elijah for speaking the truth?




His whole speech goes into Ahab and Jezebel.


He goes through much of the Northern kingdom.


This whole speech from Hosea is about Ephraim, not Judah.

So many times I see people taking what is said about Ephraim and saying that it is speaking to Judah but it isn't.




Hosea 2

New International Version (NIV)


2 [a]“Say of your brothers, ‘My people,’ and of your sisters, ‘My loved one.’

Israel Punished and Restored



2
“Rebuke your mother, rebuke her,
for she is not my wife,
and I am not her husband.
Let her remove the adulterous look from her face
and the unfaithfulness from between her breasts.

3
Otherwise I will strip her naked
and make her as bare as on the day she was born;
I will make her like a desert,
turn her into a parched land,
and slay her with thirst.

4
I will not show my love to her children,
because they are the children of adultery.

5
Their mother has been unfaithful
and has conceived them in disgrace.
She said, ‘I will go after my lovers,
who give me my food and my water,
my wool and my linen, my olive oil and my drink.’

6
Therefore I will block her path with thornbushes;
I will wall her in so that she cannot find her way.

7
She will chase after her lovers but not catch them;
she will look for them but not find them.
Then she will say,
‘I will go back to my husband as at first,
for then I was better off than now.’

8
She has not acknowledged that I was the one
who gave her the grain, the new wine and oil,
who lavished on her the silver and gold—
which they used for Baal.



9
“Therefore I will take away my grain when it ripens,
and my new wine when it is ready.
I will take back my wool and my linen,
intended to cover her naked body.

10
So now I will expose her lewdness
before the eyes of her lovers;
no one will take her out of my hands.

11
I will stop all her celebrations:
her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

12
I will ruin her vines and her fig trees,
which she said were her pay from her lovers;
I will make them a thicket,
and wild animals will devour them.

13
I will punish her for the days
she burned incense to the Baals;
she decked herself with rings and jewelry,
and went after her lovers,
but me she forgot,”
declares the Lord.



14
“Therefore I am now going to allure her;
I will lead her into the wilderness
and speak tenderly to her.

15
There I will give her back her vineyards,
and will make the Valley of Achor a door of hope.
There she will respond[c] as in the days of her youth,
as in the day she came up out of Egypt.



16
“In that day,” declares the Lord,
“you will call me ‘my husband’;
you will no longer call me ‘my master.[d]’

17
I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips;
no longer will their names be invoked.

18
In that day I will make a covenant for them
with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky
and the creatures that move along the ground.
Bow and sword and battle
I will abolish from the land,
so that all may lie down in safety.

19
I will betroth you to me forever;
I will betroth you in[e] righteousness and justice,
in[f] love and compassion.

20
I will betroth you in[g] faithfulness,
and you will acknowledge the Lord.



21
“In that day I will respond,”
declares the Lord—
“I will respond to the skies,
and they will respond to the earth;

22
and the earth will respond to the grain,
the new wine and the olive oil,
and they will respond to Jezreel.[h]

23
I will plant her for myself in the land;
I will show my love to the one I called ‘Not my loved one.’
I will say to those called ‘Not my people,[j]’ ‘You are my people’;
and they will say, ‘You are my God.’”





Gomer conceived again and gave birth to a daughter. Then the Lord said to Hosea, “Call her Lo-Ruhamah (which means “not loved”), for I will no longer show love to Israel, that I should at all forgive them. 7 Yet I will show love to Judah; .











God put an end to the northern kingdom and broke them off.

'' Not my people become my people'' is about Israel, not Judah.


When Ephraim comes back through the spirit of Elijah calling him back, the promise of return is for Ephraim, God did not put an end to the southern kingdom.

The Southern kingdom has always waited for the two to become one.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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I think of one body, one tree.

I believe that there are 12 ribs of Judah, and 12 ribs of Ephraim, and the two are to become one as a man and woman would become one.

I truly believe that Paul was of Benjamin, but I sincerely believe that he was of part of the Benjamin that was in Israel.

Benjamin was between the two, and Jerusalem was in Benjamin, and Benjamin was also a part of Joseph, not just Judah.

I believe he was chosen for that reason, and I also think the disciples were also.
 
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HannibalFlavius

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Ahab Defeats Ben-Hadad
…14Ahab said, "By whom?" So he said, "Thus says the LORD, 'By the young men of the rulers of the provinces.'" Then he said, "Who shall begin the battle?" And he answered, "You." 15Then he mustered the young men of the rulers of the provinces, and there were 232; and after them he mustered all the people, even all the sons of Israel, 7,000. 16They went out at noon, while Ben-hadad was drinking himself drunk in the temporary shelters with the thirty-two kings who helped him.…






Pulpit Commentary.

It is true this was not strictly an army, but a garrison for the defense of the capital. But it looks very much as if, under the feeble rule of Ahab, the kingdom of Israel had become thoroughly disorganized. "The position of Jarchi is that of a true Rabbi, viz., that the 7000 were those who had not bowed the knee unto Baal (1 Kings 19:18)," Bahr.]



Gill's Exposition of the Entire Bible

Then he numbered the young men of the princes of the provinces, and they were two hundred and thirty two,.... A very small number to go forth against so great an army as the host of the Syrians, and these raw unexperienced young men:

and after them he numbered all the people, even all the children of Israel, being seven thousand; which could never be the number of all the people in the land, nor even in the city of Samaria, who were able to bear arms; but it must mean such who were willing to go out to war on this occasion: and the number being just the same as of those that bowed not the knee to Baal, has led the Jewish commentators to conclude that these were the men that were numbered for war; but it is not likely that they were all in Samaria, or that none but those would go to war, though it must be owned the number is remarkable.






The number is remarkable because it is showing you the 7000 of Israel, not Judah, those same 7000 I believe.
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Lulav said:
Now you are saying there is a remnant chosen, by grace (favor), not because they didn't sin againt G-d nor get involved in idolotrous practices, but they just believed? In what I am asking.

Ok you're putting words in my mouth. All I said what I said. Don't assume what I said to mean you're own interpretation. You have a bad habit of doing that.

Lulav said:
If you are thinking about Elijah that was about Israel abandoning G-d for a false G-d. But the remnant he spoke about to Elijah were prophets.

Has God abandoned His people(Israel)? Nope as a believing Jew I'm a testimony that God hasn't abandoned His people as well as other believing Jews.
 
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Ok you're putting words in my mouth. All I said what I said. Don't assume what I said to mean you're own interpretation. You have a bad habit of doing that.

Has God abandoned His people(Israel)? Nope as a believing Jew I'm a testimony that God hasn't abandoned His people as well as other believing Jews.

delete.
 
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daq

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If you saw a branch laying on the ground, the wind probably broke that dead branch off the family tree? That branch was rejected because of the wind. Would you agree?

To say "rejected because of the wind" does not compute unless you say that the wind was intentionally sent for destructive purposes, (in which case it would likely be an east-wind qadimah of the Chabaqquq type and still it was not the wind but the source of the wind who caused the rejection). Wind does not cause rejection but simply wreaks havoc and catastrophe when there is too much of it. The branch died because it was defective and either/or cut off from the life-giving nourishment of the sap of the tree. "Daughters of Yerushalaim, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children: For, behold, the days are come in which they say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck; when they say to the mountains, Fall on us! and to the hills, Cover us! For if they do these things in the tree sap wet then what shall be done when he is dried?" Once there was a strapping sapling who cursed his mother and refused her milk because in his pride he said to himself that she was no longer necessary and must be done away with, (not knowing that his mother was Yerushalaim of above, our mother Covenant). The strapping sapling withered and died. :D
 
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mercy1061

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His whole speech goes into Ahab and Jezebel.


He goes through much of the Northern kingdom.


This whole speech from Hosea is about Ephraim, not Judah.

So many times I see people taking what is said about Ephraim and saying that it is speaking to Judah but it isn't.




Hosea 2

New International Version (NIV)


2 [a]“Say of your brothers, ‘My people,’ and of your sisters, ‘My loved one.’

Israel Punished and Restored



2
“Rebuke your mother, rebuke her,
for she is not my wife,
and I am not her husband.
Let her remove the adulterous look from her face
and the unfaithfulness from between her breasts.

3
Otherwise I will strip her naked
and make her as bare as on the day she was born;
I will make her like a desert,
turn her into a parched land,
and slay her with thirst.

4
I will not show my love to her children,
because they are the children of adultery.

5
Their mother has been unfaithful
and has conceived them in disgrace.
She said, ‘I will go after my lovers,
who give me my food and my water,
my wool and my linen, my olive oil and my drink.’

6
Therefore I will block her path with thornbushes;
I will wall her in so that she cannot find her way.

7
She will chase after her lovers but not catch them;
she will look for them but not find them.
Then she will say,
‘I will go back to my husband as at first,
for then I was better off than now.’

8
She has not acknowledged that I was the one
who gave her the grain, the new wine and oil,
who lavished on her the silver and gold—
which they used for Baal.



9
“Therefore I will take away my grain when it ripens,
and my new wine when it is ready.
I will take back my wool and my linen,
intended to cover her naked body.

10
So now I will expose her lewdness
before the eyes of her lovers;
no one will take her out of my hands.

11
I will stop all her celebrations:
her yearly festivals, her New Moons,
her Sabbath days—all her appointed festivals.

12
I will ruin her vines and her fig trees,
which she said were her pay from her lovers;
I will make them a thicket,
and wild animals will devour them.

13
I will punish her for the days
she burned incense to the Baals;
she decked herself with rings and jewelry,
and went after her lovers,
but me she forgot,”
declares the Lord.



14
“Therefore I am now going to allure her;
I will lead her into the wilderness
and speak tenderly to her.

15
There I will give her back her vineyards,
and will make the Valley of Achor a door of hope.
There she will respond[c] as in the days of her youth,
as in the day she came up out of Egypt.



16
“In that day,” declares the Lord,
“you will call me ‘my husband’;
you will no longer call me ‘my master.[d]’

17
I will remove the names of the Baals from her lips;
no longer will their names be invoked.

18
In that day I will make a covenant for them
with the beasts of the field, the birds in the sky
and the creatures that move along the ground.
Bow and sword and battle
I will abolish from the land,
so that all may lie down in safety.

19
I will betroth you to me forever;
I will betroth you in[e] righteousness and justice,
in[f] love and compassion.

20
I will betroth you in[g] faithfulness,
and you will acknowledge the Lord.



21
“In that day I will respond,”
declares the Lord—
“I will respond to the skies,
and they will respond to the earth;

22
and the earth will respond to the grain,
the new wine and the olive oil,
and they will respond to Jezreel.[h]

23
I will plant her for myself in the land;
I will show my love to the one I called ‘Not my loved one.’
I will say to those called ‘Not my people,[j]’ ‘You are my people’;
and they will say, ‘You are my God.’”





Gomer conceived again and gave birth to a daughter. Then the Lord said to Hosea, “Call her Lo-Ruhamah (which means “not loved”), for I will no longer show love to Israel, that I should at all forgive them. 7 Yet I will show love to Judah; .











God put an end to the northern kingdom and broke them off.

'' Not my people become my people'' is about Israel, not Judah.


When Ephraim comes back through the spirit of Elijah calling him back, the promise of return is for Ephraim, God did not put an end to the southern kingdom.

The Southern kingdom has always waited for the two to become one.


What about Judah and Tamar? Tamar who played the harlot was never Judah's wife.
 
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mercy1061

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To say "rejected because of the wind" does not compute unless you say that the wind was intentionally sent for destructive purposes, (in which case it would likely be an east-wind qadimah of the Chabaqquq type and still it was not the wind but the source of the wind who caused the rejection). Wind does not cause rejection but simply wreaks havoc and catastrophe when there is too much of it. The branch died because it was defective and either/or cut off from the life-giving nourishment of the sap of the tree. "Daughters of Yerushalaim, weep not for me, but weep for yourselves, and for your children: For, behold, the days are come in which they say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which never gave suck; when they say to the mountains, Fall on us! and to the hills, Cover us! For if they do these things in the tree sap wet then what shall be done when he is dried?" Once there was a strapping sapling who cursed his mother and refused her milk because in his pride he said to himself that she was no longer necessary and must be done away with, (not knowing that his mother was Yerushalaim of above, our mother Covenant). The strapping sapling withered and died. :D
Now the spirit or wind carried Elijah away, so that Ahab could not find him. If a tree can not find some of it's branches, it is probably because they have been broken off by the wind, after that branch is broken off the family tree, the wind may carry that branch to a far away location. The family tree normally remains in the same place.
 
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daq

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Now the spirit or wind carried Elijah away, so that Ahab could not find him. If a tree can not find some of it's branches, it is probably because they have been broken off by the wind, after that branch is broken off the family tree, the wind may carry that branch to a far away location. The family tree normally remains in the same place.

Perhaps you see a nation state with borders found on maps as the "family tree" while I see it rather as a people? Did the tree stay in the nation state found an the maps while the people went to Babylon commencing circa 603-602BC? As for Eliyahu did he complete what he was commanded to do in the passage which is referenced for this discussion?

1 Kings 19:13-18 KJV
13. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14. And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15. And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
16. And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
17. And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.
18. Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.


Who was it that anointed Yehu the son of Nimshi to be king over Yisrael? If you say it was Yonah then you might be correct. However, if you say it was not Eliyahu then why did he not do what he was commanded to do? Can the Scripture be broken in such a way? I say Eliyahu did indeed do as he was commanded to do because the Spirit of Eliyahu was upon Eliysha and then likewise again the same Spirit was upon Yonah the young man of the prophets. It was not even Eliysha who anointed Yehu but rather Eliysha commissions a mysterious "young man" of the prophets:

2 Kings 9:1-6 KJV
1. And Elisha the prophet called one of the children of the prophets, and said unto him, Gird up thy loins, and take this box of oil in thine hand, and go to Ramothgilead:
2. And when thou comest thither, look out there Jehu the son of Jehoshaphat the son of Nimshi, and go in, and make him arise up from among his brethren, and carry him to an inner chamber;
3. Then take the box of oil, and pour it on his head, and say, Thus saith the Lord, I have anointed thee king over Israel. Then open the door, and flee, and tarry not.
4. So the young man, even the young man the prophet, went to Ramothgilead.
5. And when he came, behold, the captains of the host were sitting; and he said, I have an errand to thee, O captain. And Jehu said, Unto which of all us? And he said, To thee, O captain.
6. And he arose, and went into the house; and he poured the oil on his head, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I have anointed thee king over the people of the Lord, even over Israel.


As well the Spirit of Eliyahu was put upon Yochanan the Immerser from the womb, (Lukas 1:15-17). Perhaps this is why Yochanan could honestly claim that he was not Eliyahu; for the Spirit of Eliyahu was upon him, but that does not make him a "reincarnation" of Eliyahu himself. The Spirit of Eliyahu is the mashiyach anointing of Yochanan the Immerser. Eliyahu is Spirit and can "run with the wind" because wind is ruach and, thus, wheresoever he goes he is not cut off because the Father is greater: even the heavens and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain the Father. Thus one is only cut off or broken if and when the Father says so. Eliyahu was not cut off from anything because the flesh profits nothing. However, at one point, Elias anthropos was indeed of similar passions to our own, (Yakobos 5:17). :)
 
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Lulav

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Originally Posted by Lulav
Now you are saying there is a remnant chosen, by grace (favor), not because they didn't sin againt G-d nor get involved in idolotrous practices, but they just believed? In what I am asking.
Ok you're putting words in my mouth. All I said what I said. Don't assume what I said to mean you're own interpretation. You have a bad habit of doing that.

Originally Posted by Lulav
If you are thinking about Elijah that was about Israel abandoning G-d for a false G-d. But the remnant he spoke about to Elijah were prophets.
Has God abandoned His people(Israel)? Nope as a believing Jew I'm a testimony that God hasn't abandoned His people as well as other believing Jews.

:sigh: Marc I did not put words into your mouth I was trying to understand what you were saying, so I asked. Please don't make false accusations, you are hard to understand some times so I was clarifying.

Even this statement above makes no sense to me, in any context.

" All I said what I said. "

I will rephrase it for you and correct one word.

Now are you saying there is a remnant chosen, by grace (favor), not because they didn't sin againt G-d nor get involved in idolotrous practices, but they just believed? Is what I am asking.

Bottom line, do you believe that at different times over the centuries and millinium G-d chooses specific Jews just to keep a remnant alive?You said it was because of 'grace' while I say these remnants were saved because they were faithful, they were obedient to the covenant.
 
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Messianic Jewboy

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Lulav said:
[/B]Bottom line, do you believe that at different times over the centuries and millinium G-d chooses specific Jews just to keep a remnant alive?You said it was because of 'grace' while I say these remnants were saved because they were faithful, they were obedient to the covenant.

Well I didn't say it was because of grace Paul did.

Ok you say these remnants were saved because they were faithful, they were obedient to the covenant. So we agree then. I don't know why you would think that grace is something against being faithful to the covenant.
 
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Lulav

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Well I didn't say it was because of grace Paul did.

Ok you say these remnants were saved because they were faithful, they were obedient to the covenant. So we agree then. I don't know why you would think that grace is something against being faithful to the covenant.


But you were agreeing with him were you not?

Originally Posted by Messianic Jewboy
Romans 11:5
It’s the same way in the present age: there is a remnant, chosen by grace.

Me being a Jew is also a testimony that God hasn't cast away Israel(Romans 11:5)


I didn't say it was 'against'.

Why don't you tell me how you perceive 'Grace' then maybe we can communicate better? :)
 
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mercy1061

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Perhaps you see a nation state with borders found on maps as the "family tree" while I see it rather as a people? Did the tree stay in the nation state found an the maps while the people went to Babylon commencing circa 603-602BC? As for Eliyahu did he complete what he was commanded to do in the passage which is referenced for this discussion?

1 Kings 19:13-18 KJV
13. And it was so, when Elijah heard it, that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, there came a voice unto him, and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?
14. And he said, I have been very jealous for the Lord God of hosts: because the children of Israel have forsaken thy covenant, thrown down thine altars, and slain thy prophets with the sword; and I, even I only, am left; and they seek my life, to take it away.
15. And the Lord said unto him, Go, return on thy way to the wilderness of Damascus: and when thou comest, anoint Hazael to be king over Syria:
16. And Jehu the son of Nimshi shalt thou anoint to be king over Israel: and Elisha the son of Shaphat of Abelmeholah shalt thou anoint to be prophet in thy room.
17. And it shall come to pass, that him that escapeth the sword of Hazael shall Jehu slay: and him that escapeth from the sword of Jehu shall Elisha slay.
18. Yet I have left me seven thousand in Israel, all the knees which have not bowed unto Baal, and every mouth which hath not kissed him.


Who was it that anointed Yehu the son of Nimshi to be king over Yisrael? If you say it was Yonah then you might be correct. However, if you say it was not Eliyahu then why did he not do what he was commanded to do? Can the Scripture be broken in such a way? I say Eliyahu did indeed do as he was commanded to do because the Spirit of Eliyahu was upon Eliysha and then likewise again the same Spirit was upon Yonah the young man of the prophets. It was not even Eliysha who anointed Yehu but rather Eliysha commissions a mysterious "young man" of the prophets:

2 Kings 9:1-6 KJV
1. And Elisha the prophet called one of the children of the prophets, and said unto him, Gird up thy loins, and take this box of oil in thine hand, and go to Ramothgilead:
2. And when thou comest thither, look out there Jehu the son of Jehoshaphat the son of Nimshi, and go in, and make him arise up from among his brethren, and carry him to an inner chamber;
3. Then take the box of oil, and pour it on his head, and say, Thus saith the Lord, I have anointed thee king over Israel. Then open the door, and flee, and tarry not.
4. So the young man, even the young man the prophet, went to Ramothgilead.
5. And when he came, behold, the captains of the host were sitting; and he said, I have an errand to thee, O captain. And Jehu said, Unto which of all us? And he said, To thee, O captain.
6. And he arose, and went into the house; and he poured the oil on his head, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, I have anointed thee king over the people of the Lord, even over Israel.


As well the Spirit of Eliyahu was put upon Yochanan the Immerser from the womb, (Lukas 1:15-17). Perhaps this is why Yochanan could honestly claim that he was not Eliyahu; for the Spirit of Eliyahu was upon him, but that does not make him a "reincarnation" of Eliyahu himself. The Spirit of Eliyahu is the mashiyach anointing of Yochanan the Immerser. Eliyahu is Spirit and can "run with the wind" because wind is ruach and, thus, wheresoever he goes he is not cut off because the Father is greater: even the heavens and the heavens of the heavens cannot contain the Father. Thus one is only cut off or broken if and when the Father says so. Eliyahu was not cut off from anything because the flesh profits nothing. However, at one point, Elias anthropos was indeed of similar passions to our own, (Yakobos 5:17). :)
Elijah was rejected, the people rejected the covenant. so how could he legally anoint anyone king? Would the people listen to a broken off branch? You can not annoint anyone leader of the people if you do not have a good repuation among the people. Samuel could annoint Shaul, because Samuel had a good reputation among the people. G-d has not rejected his prophets, although the people have killed many prophets, only Elijah is left to publicly preach the good news. Again mercy does not agree with reincarnation, one would have to be born before he can die, being born again does not come after death. Reincarnation involves coming to life after death, being transformed into an animal.Mercy agrees with Elijah not reincarnation.
 
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daq

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Elijah was rejected, the people rejected the covenant. so how could he legally anoint anyone king? Would the people listen to a broken off branch? You can not annoint anyone leader of the people if you do not have a good repuation among the people. Samuel could annoint Shaul, because Samuel had a good reputation among the people. G-d has not rejected his prophets, although the people have killed many prophets, only Elijah is left to publicly preach the good news. Again mercy does not agree with reincarnation, one would have to be born before he can die, being born again does not come after death. Reincarnation involves coming to life after death, being transformed into an animal.Mercy agrees with Elijah not reincarnation.

If it depends on other people as to whether we are accepted or rejected then we are all doomed and broken off as we speak including the first apostles and talmidim of Yeshua who were rejected by the rulers. Mercy, (who now appears to be addressing himself in the third person) may choose to believe whatever he desires to believe but he apparently has no problem with the Scripture being broken when he gives his physical reasons why Eliyahu did not carry out the commandment to anoint Yehu the son of Nimshi as king over Yisrael. However, for daq, the Scripture remains intact because he does not see these things according to the mind of the flesh or the physical world so it flows naturally for him that Eliyahu is also the Spirit mashiyach-anointing which was placed upon Yochanan the Immerser, (if mercy will receive it) because Eliyahu is Spirit of the Prophets: Six wings to the echad! :wave:
 
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