Holiness Pentecostals: Why Does Everyone Hate Them?

OGM · Mar 5, 2014

ToBeBlessed said:
I would change part of one sentence. FROM They are extremely difficult to be around because they are always trying to put people down. TO They are extremely difficult to be around because they judge and condemn others according to their legalistic view, which in Christianity is not biblical. If.. If... their view was biblical I wouldn't challenge it.

The thing about extremists is that they often arbitrarily decide they don't like someone for the oddest reasons. For example; claiming someone is not a Christian because they went to a sporting event. Someone earlier posted about ownership of a pool table causing a problem. Or it might be a haircut that sets someone off.

Often times these issues go beyond legalism. No Super Bowl?! It is a Taliban mindset. No fun,with a million and one reasons to put down a person. I avoid them like the plague.

lightandglory · Mar 5, 2014

There is difference between being Holy and legalistic. Being Holy is being exceptional, different. Legalism on other hand, being locked up in a room.God set us free from legalism but told us to be Holy. You need to have a fear of God to be Holy. Most of the churches missing the point of having fear of God. Fear of God will make you Holy. Fear of God is not being afraid from God but live in his ways, keep yourself away from sin. Understand what He saved you from. Understand the Hell... If you would know what God saved you from you would have fear of God. Some churches thinking they are being Holy but sadly they going extreme and being legalistic. that's why people don't like them because they have forget the point. So we need to find middle of it. Have fear of God, it will make you Holy at the end.

'The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.' Proverbs 8:30

Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter began to speak: "I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.''

So do what is right and have a fear of the Lord.

And remember what Luke 6:22 says;

What blessings await you when people hate you and exclude you and mock you and curse you as evil because you follow the Son of Man.

Petruchio · Mar 7, 2014

If by "holiness" is meant "the ability to stop sinning," or "the possibility of ceasing to sin (before death)", then holiness pentecostals deserve all the scorn they get. If not, then they are only talking about sanctification, but with a different name.

Purge187 · Mar 8, 2014

OGM said:
The thing about extremists is that they often arbitrarily decide they don't like someone for the oddest reasons. For example; claiming someone is not a Christian because they went to a sporting event. Someone earlier posted about ownership of a pool table causing a problem. Or it might be a haircut that sets someone off.

Often times these issues go beyond legalism. No Super Bowl?! It is a Taliban mindset. No fun,with a million and one reasons to put down a person. I avoid them like the plague.

That last part gets to me. I can understand shunning things like inappropriate contentography, buy why sporting events?

OGM · Mar 8, 2014

Purge187 said:
That last part gets to me. I can understand shunning things like inappropriate contentography, buy why sporting events?

I asked but never got a good answer. That particular group also did not like movies or plays. Were shocked that I would frequent Broadway. It seems they did not like gatherings where many non-Christians would congregate. Oddly enough they all had radios and TVs.

The pool table prohibition, they said, was because people often gamble playing pool. I asked why can't you just play the game without wagering?! They didn't like that question.

Also they did not like "mixed swimming", meaning both genders swimming at the same place and time. I had never even heard of that.

dragongunner · Mar 9, 2014

Sports probably came from Rome and evolved to what it is today I'm guessing....so then it would be seen as something from and of this world. And look what Rome did to the christians so its bad. However there are so many things out there where do you draw the line....we had a discussion once about if a store sells cigarets should we shop some where else, but then where..? It got kind of ridiculas really, tv wasn't ok but a radio was ok, would never get a answer to that, and everyone read the newspaper....but horoscopes are in them so shouldn't we not look at newspapers also......my uncle had a pastor way back in the 40's I would say that there are alot of "grey" areas out there that its tough to find bible for or against, in these cases it should be up to each individual to decide for himself, what the course should be , for they alone stand before God.......
Another Pastor told the story that I never saw before about when Jesus asked for the diciples to go get the little mule for him to ride on....they got it and then everyone started to throw "their" robes on it for Jesus to ride on. But Jesus never told them to throw "their" robes on it for him, the pastor said this shows how when some of us come to Christ there are those who want to throw "their" robes (laws, burdens,..) on us when it should not be.
Thought that was interesting perspective.....

dayhiker · Mar 10, 2014

There seem to be all these things that we can do and someone wants to make them worldly. Once I observed that people seemed to have 3 categories: Non sinful, worldly and sinful. So I was asking people about this. Was there 3 categories, sin and not sin and a third of category that isn't named as sinful, but are worldly and really are sinful but the Bible doesn't say they are? Christians had a really hard time responding to that question. Which is what I figured as I would have had a hard time as well. But I finally came to the conclusion that it must just be another way of saying living without Jesus. So what every is not of faith is sin.

OGM · Mar 12, 2014

Yes..."Worldly" is a word that was over used.

rockytopva · Mar 14, 2014

"You know, we live in a day when we are more afraid of holiness than we are of sinfulness." - Leonard Ravenhill

OGM · Mar 14, 2014

Extremism and legalism scares me too.

jiminpa · Mar 18, 2014

I laid my faith to ruin reading a very popular Pentecostal holiness preacher and even considering that he may have been right. That was almost 30 years ago, and I'm still not back to where I was in my faith. Pentecostal holiness demands that true holiness be sacrificed in favor of man-pleasing. It is a road to Hell.

thunderbyrd · Mar 18, 2014

jiminpa said:
I laid my faith to ruin reading a very popular Pentecostal holiness preacher and even considering that he may have been right. That was almost 30 years ago, and I'm still not back to where I was in my faith. Pentecostal holiness demands that true holiness be sacrificed in favor of man-pleasing. It is a road to Hell.

i would bet $20 to a doughnut that you are talking about either jimmy swaggart or finis jennings dake.

these two ruined my faith also. jimmy swaggart would come on tv and tell endlessly what true faith and "walking with God" was NOT - but he never did tell what true faith actually was and how to correctly walk it out day by day. turns out that he never told how to do it because he didn't know himself.

interesting to me that, if you look into dake's history, he and jimmy both had problems keeping their pants up.

jiminpa · Mar 18, 2014

thunderbyrd said:
i would bet $20 to a doughnut that you are talking about either jimmy swaggart or finis jennings dake.

these two ruined my faith also. jimmy swaggart would come on tv and tell endlessly what true faith and "walking with God" was NOT - but he never did tell what true faith actually was and how to correctly walk it out day by day. turns out that he never told how to do it because he didn't know himself.

interesting to me that, if you look into dake's history, he and jimmy both had problems keeping their pants up.

...and you would lose. It was David Wilkerson.

Purge187 · Mar 18, 2014

I just wanted to post again to say that the kind-hearted Bishop of the UPC I'm currently visitng gave me a free DVD to help with some spiritual issues I've been having. The rest of the congregation has been as welcoming and kind as he has.

I guess this place is the exception rather than the rule.

OGM · Mar 18, 2014

Purge187 said:
I just wanted to post again to say that the kind-hearted Bishop of the UPC I'm currently visitng gave me a free DVD to help with some spiritual issues I've been having. The rest of the congregation has been as welcoming and kind as he has.

I guess this place is the exception rather than the rule.

Actually there are many welcoming and kind Pentecostals...can't paint the entire group because of a few bad eggs.

thunderbyrd · Mar 19, 2014

jiminpa said:
...and you would lose. It was David Wilkerson.

wow, Jim, i hate to hear that, i always liked david wilkerson pretty good.

jiminpa · Mar 20, 2014

thunderbyrd said:
wow, Jim, i hate to hear that, i always liked david wilkerson pretty good.

I have mixed feelings about him. When he was on, he was good, but when he decided that God needed help, well....

Most of his prophecies after about 1984 were his own imaginations. He was a legalist first, and after the mid-eighties didn't seem to hear God unless it had something to do with legalism, and yet he understood God's mercy for those who stumbled, but wanted to live up to the standards he believed in. Unfortunately, that meant that when he believed his own legalism over the truth he too often spoke his own mind in God's name, but I think he really thought it was God.

Water Cross · Mar 20, 2014

stormdancer0 said:
Holiness is always threatening to those who want salvation for free with no requirements. But holiness has always been a requirement of God. Like it or not.

dayhiker · Mar 21, 2014

I read a lot of David's stuff over the years. Early on it ministered to me a lot. But later I didn't get much out of his writings and I used to read the summery of his sermons often. It seems as tho he was only talking about the verses that were about judgment. I didn't get much life from his words. I also didn't see the things he thought God was going to judge us for as being anywhere near as bad as he was making them out to be.
To me the love of God is way more powerful that the judgment that these preacher preach about so much.

Andrea411 · Mar 21, 2014

dayhiker said:
I read a lot of David's stuff over the years. Early on it ministered to me a lot. But later I didn't get much out of his writings and I used to read the summery of his sermons often. It seems as tho he was only talking about the verses that were about judgment. I didn't get much life from his words. I also didn't see the things he thought God was going to judge us for as being anywhere near as bad as he was making them out to be.
To me the love of God is way more powerful that the judgment that these preacher preach about so much.

I don't think we can even understand the scriptures until we have grasped His love for us. that doesn't change the scriptures, it changes the heart that hears His word. There is no fear or condemnation when we rejoice in His love. That isn't a license to sin, it is the pathway out of sin. Focusing on our sin, keeps our eyes on ourselves, instead of on Christ. When we are focused on Christ, then the Lord can work all things together for our good and that includes removing the carnal body and replacing it with a spiritual living breathing wholly focused on Christ body. in this body we overcome sin.
and if we sin we are assured that He will forgive us of our sin.

When we fall madly, totally and completely in love with Jesus we will be delivered.

God bless, andrea

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