The last time Jesus made me feel wretched

ByTheSpirit

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Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a WRETCH like me
I ONCE was lost, but NOW am found
WAS blind, but NOW I see...

I am no longer lost and no longer blind, His grace has saved me wholly and completely. No more need to feel dirty, wretched, and miserable so long as I continue to believe in Him.

He is my friend (John 15:15), my redeemer, my holiness, and my righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30). If I am wretched then so is He, for God sees me as He sees Jesus! All that Jesus was and is, so am I because I believe in Him!

:clap::bow::clap::bow::clap::bow::clap::bow::clap::bow:
 
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murjahel

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It is a wonderful, necessary, and blessed thing for the Lord to chasten us for bashing His grace..... It may not feel great, but the end result of His work on us is worth it...

Hebrews 12:6-11 (KJV)
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
 
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Frogster

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Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
That saved a WRETCH like me
I ONCE was lost, but NOW am found
WAS blind, but NOW I see...

I am no longer lost and no longer blind, His grace has saved me wholly and completely. No more need to feel dirty, wretched, and miserable so long as I continue to believe in Him.

He is my friend (John 15:15), my redeemer, my holiness, and my righteousness (1 Corinthians 1:30). If I am wretched then so is He, for God sees me as He sees Jesus! All that Jesus was and is, so am I because I believe in Him!

:clap::bow::clap::bow::clap::bow::clap::bow::clap::bow:

sooooo true! United in his resurrection!:clap::clap:
 
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Frogster

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It is a wonderful, necessary, and blessed thing for the Lord to chasten us for bashing His grace..... It may not feel great, but the end result of His work on us is worth it...

Hebrews 12:6-11 (KJV)
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
9 Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?
10 For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

good point, the reason for the chastening, they spurned the Spirit of grace as you know, in 10:29, calling His blood common. if that's what you meant by your post?:)
 
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lismore

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Isaiah 61:

10 I delight greatly in the Lord;
my soul rejoices in my God.
For he has clothed me with garments of salvation
and arrayed me in a robe of his righteousness,
as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest,
and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.
11 For as the soil makes the sprout come up
and a garden causes seeds to grow,
so the Sovereign Lord will make righteousness
and praise spring up before all nations.

:)
 
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murjahel

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Romans 7:19-24 (KJV)
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?



Those who know us best, know we are far from perfect. Too often a minister allows a congregation to assume a near perfection of themselves. The Catholic church has preached that their Pope is a replacement for Jesus and bears the infallibility of the Lord. This is far from true, and history has shown infallibility was claimed and made doctrine at one of the most corrupt times of the church. Today, we see in Protestant circles many who claim a ‘Pope-like’ aurora of perfection. Leaders of many groups are claiming to know what individuals are to give, are to be, are to believe. The Bible is made second to their ‘revelations’ for others.



Each of us are to be on speaking terms with the Lord. Each of us have been commanded to study the Word and find the revelation of God’s will therein. Each of us are to have a relationship with Jesus.

2 Timothy 2:15-18 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

We are to ‘study’ the Word of God. We are to realize that the corruptness of mankind is universal, and only God, Christ, and the Holy Spirit are perfect. We are to trust God’s Word, and beware ‘profane and vain babblings’, by trusting God and His Word and questioning the words of all others.

If we are truly saved, we are wanting to purify our thoughts, words, and deeds. Any lack of wanting to be pleasing to the Lord, any lack of wanting to cease from sinful ways, brings into question the reality of one's claim of salvation. We should have become a 'new creation', and old things should have passed away... those are the old sinful ways.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Any lack of wanting to be pleasing to the Lord, any lack of wanting to cease from sinful ways, brings into question the reality of one's claim of salvation. We should have become a 'new creation', and old things should have passed away... those are the old sinful ways.

I agree with this if only because those who have believed were regenerated and born again with a new nature. Christ's very nature. That perfect nature born in complete righteousness now belongs to those who are in Christ. So again I ask, how can ANYONE in that nature, feel wretched, or even be wretched.

Paul doesn't say those who are in Christ may be new, or should be new. He said they ARE new! Nothing iffy about that. Those who genuinely believe in Christ will please God just by the attitude of their hearts before Him. Belief! Only believe!
 
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murjahel

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Romans 7:14-18 (KJV)
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

These words of Paul are true of all of us. We are still ‘carnal’. This word is ‘sarkikos’. Literally, it means ‘meathead’. Paul still had a ‘meathead’ mind, and was learning to follow the Lord, but still ‘wretched’ in his own soul. We too should admit the same thing. We struggle against sin. We tend toward sin, and must struggle in the Lord to overcome the carnal temptations of life. There is no ‘infallible Pope’ in Catholicism, or in Protestantism. There is no infallible leader in any denomination. Certainly, there is no ‘infallible’ person in me either. We are all ‘wretched’ persons. We need Jesus, we struggle with sinful temptations. We need often to repent. We need to follow the Word and the Spirit Who authored the Word. We cannot follow ‘wretched’ leaders, not even our own selves.

Romans 7:24 (KJV)
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


There was a custom in those days, wherein some magistrates would bind a dead body to a person, and require that they go about carrying that dead body. Eventually, the person carrying that body would die from disease and contamination of that dead body which they carried.

We carry about on our saved person, a soul that is still carnal, still wanting to lead us into sin. We tend to selfishness, anger at others, revenge, hatred, evil thoughts, wicked desires that are contrary to the Word of God’s instructions. That ‘dead body’ is carried about by us, till we are raptured/resurrected. If we say we have no sin, if we try to claim perfection before leaving this ‘body of death’, we are liars.

1 John 1:8 (KJV)
8 If we (John himself and the other Christians) say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
 
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murjahel

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The answer to our wretchedness....


Romans 7:25 (KJV)
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We must, like Paul, serve the Lord. The ‘flesh’ will still pull toward sin. We are in this battle until the rapture/resurrection. It continues. Yet, do not despair, for Paul goes on and in these next few verses we find a blessed truth.

Romans 8:1-16 (KJV)
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


We can be without condemnation for the carnal mind and failures of life. We must choose to serve the Lord, we must choose to be in the family of God. The sins and weaknesses of our soul can be mortified and we can receive a continual adoption into this state of grace. Paul was a ‘wretched man’ in his soul. He still could be tempted and could fail. He was not perfect any more than you or I. He learned to trust in the grace and mercy of God. He chose to not follow the carnal mind, but to follow the Spirit of adoption.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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How do you mortify the deeds of the flesh by the Spirit though (Romans 8:13)? By walking with the Spirit, that's how! Paul said so in Galatians 5:16-18. Walk with the Spirit and you will not carry out the desires of your flesh. How do you walk with the Spirit? By believing! 1 John 3:23-24 so there still is no force of will involved, it is entirely a work of grace that we cooperate with only by our believing God will do it through us.

Paul was not questioning whether or not Christ was in those who believed in verse 10-11. If so then he was indecisive and teaching contradiction because in Colossians 1:27 he said that Christ was in those who believe and in Ephesians 1:13-14. Paul is just giving some hypothetical statements... If Christ is in you then you will live, not a if as in he was unsure. Like saying if you believe you will be saved. Nothing iffy about that it is stating a condition and a result, believe -> saved, Christ in us -> life after death, walk in the Spirit -> mortify the deeds of the body... Those are conditions that are met only through believing in Christ.

You say we must choose to serve the Lord as if someone can genuinely believe and then not obey. Thats not possible. The new nature birthed within them is Christ's own nature. That's part of why Paul said in Christ we are the righteousness of God. Can Christ deny Himself? No of course not. Those who are in Him will serve Him out of love and gratitude, because their nature compels them to. It is a natural outflowing of the Spirit within them. There is nothing obligatory about it. If one had to feel obligated to obey then they are doing little less than obeying another type of Law. Christ is the end of the Law to those who believe! The way of life in the Spirit is love for all who are in Him. Natural love, not forced love. That's why the love a Christian gives is supernatural and bears, believes, hopes, endures all things. Because it is of no human will or origin, but from and by the Holy Spirit through belief. 1 John 3:23-24; Galatians 5:22-23
 
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gideons300

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You say we must choose to serve the Lord as if someone can genuinely believe and then not obey. Thats not possible.

I agree wholeheartedly with this, but it does still leave us with a dilemma. It means that if men are still walking after their own wills, still harboring secret and not so secret sins, still loving the world and the things in the world, then they are not believing as they were meant to believe. Is this not correct?

The next question is..... what are they believing that they should not be believing, or ... what are they not believing that they should be believing so that real obedience follows?


Blessings,

Gideon
 
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ByTheSpirit

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There a number of things a person can think to cause them issues in the walk of faith. I believed for the longest time I had to perform and work in order to complete my salvation. Call it what you will but the conditional security doctrine is false. It places a new law on God's children that He never meant for them to bear. Indeed its slapping Christ in the face and treating His blood as meaningless because He bore the full payment of my sins and atoned for them all. Nothing I can do to assist in that.

I believe once a Christian realizes who they are in Christ, really who they are, the righteousness of God merely by virtue of their adoption into the family of God. Their entire outlook will change and really conduct as well.

Its like the parable about the old homeless man who died with a box in his hands. In that box was several thousands of dollars in bonds and jewelry, but he never knew about it and it was useless to him as he lived in poverty. Had he simply known the truth his entire life would have been different.
 
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murjahel

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Since the apostle Paul himself could examine himself and determine he was still wretched... well, if we think we are soooo holy we do not need to examine ourselves for any impurities, we are being far too bold... to put it mildly...


WE NEED TO EXAMINE YOUR WRETCHED MAN


There are two Greek words that are often translated alike, or similarly, yet, the difference is interesting and informative. These words are: Dokimadzo, and Piradzo

II Corinthians 13:5
"Examine (piradzo) yourselves, whether ye be in the faith, prove dokimadzo) your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates (adokimos)."


Both these words are translated "prove" (John 6:6, Luke 14:19), and both are translated ‘try" (Rev. 2:2, I Cor. 3:13), and also, both are translated "examine" (I Cor. 11:28, II Cor. 13:5).


Yet, they are not perfectly synonymous.


Dokimadzo , in Classical Greek, is used for putting money to a test to determine if it is counterfeit by aid of a test. That which endures such a test is "dokimos" and that which fails such a test is "adokimos". Such a test is made with the desire to find something genuine. For if one owns a coin that needs testing for legitimacy, surely there is hope that it is genuine. We are told in II Cor. 13:8 to "prove" ourselves. I.e. to test, with the hope of finding ourselves to be genuine.


The other word has a bit of a different meaning. Piradzo, means to pierce or search into, or attempt to search out something that is evil for the purpose of removing it. It is used of God when He ‘tempts’ us. He is searching inside of us, to find something evil within the carnal person, something unrepented of, something hurting our walk with Him. God has the intent to remove it, though He does not remove the carnal man. James says we should "count it all joy, when you fall into divers (many) temptations (piradzo). (James 1:2)

II Corinthians 13:5
"Examine (piradzo) yourselves, (means we should pierce our own selves searching within to find any sin, which may need repented of, and removed from our lives) whether ye be in the faith, prove (dokimadzo) your own selves. (this means that then we should put ourselves to a test, now to expect to be found the genuine article, and not a counterfeit) Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates (adokimos)." (This is the word that is the antithesis of dokimadzo, and instead of being genuine, it means that one may be a "counterfeit").


Do we periodically ‘piradzo’ ourselves? Many a "saint" goes for long times without searching within ones’ thoughts, deeds, motives, and actions, to see if all is pleasing to the Lord Jesus.

Communion is meant to be a time for self examination. And yet, many take communion oft, and never really ‘pierce’ or cut deeply, into the soul seeking diligently to ascertain if any, even the slightest bit of evil is inside.

Many do not mind a ‘dokimadzo’ occasionally, for it is an external test of authenticity, expecting a positive result. It should only be done, after the ‘piradzo’ examining is done first.

We see many who have not searched themselves with the intent to remove the hatred, bitterness, jealousy, deceptions, ill will, etc. We wonder how they can think they are really "Christ-like" ones. They have forgotten that repentance is vitally necessary. They do not see a need for it in their own lives. For they do not see ‘sin’.

The person has been, at salvation, cleansed of all sin that doomed their soul. Yet, the carnal man was not removed from their person. The spirit of the person struggles to serve the Lord. The carnal person is still that ‘wretched’ person that Paul admitted. We need to examine ourselves on a regular basis to be sure that ‘carnal’ person is not defiling us. Paul instructs us on the methods to do such personal catharsis cleansing on a regular basis.


Some have checked the ‘outside of the cup’ as did the Pharisees, but they have not searched inside, to find in the inside of the ‘cup’ the filth and degradation. We need to periodically, even daily, examine our soul, for the defiling of our person. Paul called himself a ‘wretched man’, for he realized that the old nature was still present, seeking to control and contaminate his witness. We need to humble ourselves to admit we are not perfect. We still, till the rapture, fight the wretched person within us. God does not remove that carnal nature, but He has put in the Word many instructions for how to be victors over it.


The wretched man is good at pretending to be spiritual, righteous, holy, and pure. His deception is very good, for he even fools himself.


The Bible tells us that 'the heart is deceitful, and desperately wicked.'

Jeremiah 17:9-10 (KJV)
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.


The words 'desperately wicked' are the Hebrew word (605) anash. This is a primitive root word most often translated 'incurable'. It also means 'feeble', 'sick' and 'woeful.'

This 'deceitful' inner person, in each of us, cannot be trusted, for it is 'deceitful above all things'. There is no one we can trust less than our inner person. It is desperately wicked, and will remain so until we get our new heavenly bodies. Till then there is an inner war of our resurrected spirit who wants to serve God, and our carnal self that wants to please itself.

Since it is not removed at salvation, this battle continues after salvation. Untold harm has been done by the carnal soul to the person in which it dwells. The 'adamic nature' as it has been called, is not idle, but looks for every opportunity to defile our walk with the Lord.


Paul was speaking of that part of him when he said 'O wretched man that I am'. We often want to hide the existence of our wretched man. We would like others to think that we are the 'infallible', sanctified, too holy to be ever temtped by sin, person.


That idea that we can be perfect here, before the coming of Jesus to rapture us, or before our death and homecoming to heaven, is a most stupid idea. Yet, many a Christian has allowed the 'deceitful' and 'wretched' person in them to convince them of such.


John spoke of some who let their deceitful person convince them of that when he said:


1 John 1:8-10 (KJV)
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.


Many are deceiving themselves today, and are thereby not repenting ever of sins of the 'wretched' man. The 'jealousies' will they call 'love'. The 'anger' will they call 'righteous indignation.' The 'hatred' will be justified'. The 'pride' they will call 'holiness'. Fooling themselves, the 'deceitful' and wretched man has brought many to pits of despair.

That is why we need to 'examine' ourselves. For the 'ourself' in us, is deceitful, and so incurably wicked. We long for heaven, wherein the 'wicked man' can be destroyed and replaced with a righteous spirit.


It is time to let the 'spirit' bring us to a place of 'no condemnation', by remaining in close fellowship with the Lord. We can overcome this 'wicked' person in us, by repentance of the evils into which the wretched man tries to lead us.


What we are healed of, in our person, is the damage this ‘deceitful and desperately wicked’ ‘wretched’ person does to us. The sins that it engenders need repentance, and a catharsis needs to take place often within us. The incurable wretched person will remain until it is removed at the rapture time, or when we die and go to heaven.

Romans 8:5-16 (KJV)
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:


The Spirit of the Lord dwells in our spirit, and leads us toward the Lord.


The ‘wretched’ person of our soul still seeks selfish things. We are to be spiritually minded, not carnally minded. It is a constant choice. Sometimes, we fail.

We have an ‘Advocate’, a Helper, and He leads us back into fellowship with the Lord. The blood of Jesus cleanses our person, and a catharsis healing continues to restore us to the Lord’s presence. We need this Spirit of God to help our infirmities.


Romans 8:26-28 (KJV)
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
 
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turned around

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Hi,
Examining myself to see whether or not I'm in the faith. The apostle exhorted the Corinthian church to do this. I personally do not believe he was telling them to reflect on their sins. I believe the exhortation was to look at the finished work of the cross. Going to 1 Corinthians 1:30, do you believe God has provided wisdom, righteousness, redemption, and sanctification. The faith I believe speaks of a event(the cross), not actions the believer does. I believe the apostle understood the inherent power in the word Christ revealed to him. 1 Thessalonians 2:13 sums it, just believing the word is able to effectually change the believer.

Grace to you.
 
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K2K

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It seem just really wrong to think that Jesus ever made us feel wretched. I don't think that feeling is from Him, but from sin in us.

In Romans Paul writes about the principle of sin in us, then he states "Wretched man that I am". After that Paul writes, thanks be to God.

So it seems to me that sin in us makes us feel wetched, and God ultimately save us not only from that but if from that, from the feeling too.

The Lord reproves me, but He encourages me while doing it. So the reproof and even the conviction from Him, is not accusing! It does make me feel wretched, but like someone that God loves enough to teach.

Accusation, like from the accuser of the saints, makes me fell wretched, because I see I make mistakes. The devil makes me fell like there is no hope, but the grace of God makes me see there is more than hope, there is love.
 
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gideons300

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There a number of things a person can think to cause them issues in the walk of faith. I believed for the longest time I had to perform and work in order to complete my salvation. Call it what you will but the conditional security doctrine is false. It places a new law on God's children that He never meant for them to bear. Indeed its slapping Christ in the face and treating His blood as meaningless because He bore the full payment of my sins and atoned for them all. Nothing I can do to assist in that.

I believe once a Christian realizes who they are in Christ, really who they are, the righteousness of God merely by virtue of their adoption into the family of God. Their entire outlook will change and really conduct as well.

Its like the parable about the old homeless man who died with a box in his hands. In that box was several thousands of dollars in bonds and jewelry, but he never knew about it and it was useless to him as he lived in poverty. Had he simply known the truth his entire life would have been different.

I agree with this as well brother. There is one thing that I would like to clarify. Jesus not only was the assurance of our forgiveness, but also our assurance of our total deliverance from the power of darkness.

So let's say a man does believe as you say. He walks in great joy, but he has a nagging sin that constantly is causing him to fall. God does not condemn him, but he does convict him of this, correct? The Spirit does chasten him for it because God is holy and desires that we be with him in that holy state. The natural path is for that man to fight against that sin and to try to stop. He has left the path of faith and entered the battlefield of self effort and the sin robs him of his peace. But let's make sure what the real sin is. It is unbelief that needs correcting, not the flesh.

So what if, the next time he is tempted, he responds with "I am dead to sin. I am crucified with Christ. I am light. I am new. I am delivered from the power of darkness."? What if he really believes that this temptation MUST fail for he is a new creature and knows that God has promised to keep him from falling? That changes everything. That man's victory and his joy is not only not interrupted, it is increased!

It is over the issue of sin, and not forgiveness, that our faith is tested and where we must beware. As we believe what the scriptures tell us, that we are new creatures and that sin no longer has power over us, that our shield of faith WILL quench all the fiery arrows of the enemy, that our God will not allow us to be tempted more than we can stand with out falling, and we stand on this in faith, believing our God, will we fall? No, for we are kept by the power of God through faith!

What I am doing is extending out what you are espousing to its logical conclusion, that if we abide in Him, by faith, and His words abide in us, by faith, and we continue in those words without letting go of them, then Jesus promises to set us free indeed, free from the power of sin and disobedience. Now, IF we sin (not when, but IF), we have an advocate, but how our joy is increased when we see Him as deliverer, so that we do not have to use Him as advocate any longer.

The only reason we fall is because of our unbelief that our old sinful nature is truly gone....DEAD. But if we believe what Jesus has said, that that nature died when He died, shall sin really have dominion over us any longer? If God has promised to cause us to be obedient, and He has in the description of the new covenant in Ezekiel 36 and we believe Him, then what is the expected outcome? Holy walks, praise God. Holy, joy-filled walks!

The stepping into faith that you describe is a glorious event, but it is the beginning of our warfare, not the end. We are now entering the good fight of faith, with the understanding that as we stand in those truths, and satan rains doubts and unbelief on us, and we refuse to budge, God finally establishes us in that faith, and we become unmoveable.

Brother, I know it seems we have been going toe to toe lately, but we are truly very close to one another in doctrine. I simply ask that you carry your faith to the area of what God said about us and sin, as well as us and forgiveness. It will excite you. It does me. What you are seeing is from God.

Many blessings,

Gideon
 
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