Many are called, FEW choose to be chosen ...

lismore

Maranatha
Oct 28, 2004
20,671
4,354
Scotland
✟242,556.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thank you for saying that.

I agree they are tricky issues - many, many hours have been spent, miles of ink written and millions of pixels used in the pursuit of answers.

Blessings,

Mike

Sometimes we try to probe questions that are too deep for us, finite beings to comprehend.

But there are matters that are obvious. Jesus, when talking of the need to preach the gospel gives a clear sense of urgency, of imminence, of importance.

Therefore if the preaching of the gospel is urgent and top priority then there must be reasons for that.

We don't need to know every little nuance of salvation and judgement to realise that there is a gospel to be preached, salvation to be embraced and a judgement to be shunned and that these things are of over-riding importance to just about everything else.
 
Upvote 0

JoyToTheWhirled

Going where I'm led
Jul 18, 2007
589
102
47
✟30,337.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
We don't need to know every little nuance of salvation and judgement to realise that there is a gospel to be preached, salvation to be embraced and a judgement to be shunned and that these things are of over-riding importance to just about everything else.

:amen:
 
Upvote 0

K2K

Newbie
Jul 21, 2010
2,520
471
✟50,646.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
ever thought why this is ???:confused:


Of course God knows what is going to happen, but we also have free will. The fact that God knows what will happen doesn't mean that we can't choose, it only means He knows what choice will be made. Also, knowing what choice will be made does not mean the choice should not be given. God should give people a choice. So what is the choice?

We are saved by faith, and it is written that the Word of the Lord appeared and spoke to Abraham he believe it was God and that was counted to Him as righteousness. So the choice that is made is a choice to believe when God talks to us.

Jesus explains that He stands at the door and if anyone hears His voice He will come into them. So He is knocking with His voice (the call) but we have a choice to hear it with faith (belief). If you then choose to accept the Lord, you He chooses to come into you.

Jn 12:47,48 If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but so save the world. He who rejects Me and does not receive My sayings, has one who judges him; the word I spoke is what will judge him at the last days.

From the verses above we can again see that we recieve or don't receive the Lord by receiving or not receiving His sayings ( His call). So it is based upon faith alone and not works, yet also upon our free will to accept of reject.

Still somehow, when we ask why Me Lord, we want to put something we did right to the question. And perhaps we did do something right, but it is not works, it is accepting Jesus by hearing with faith, just like it is written, "faith comes from hearing". So we have a choice to hear what He is saying and believe, like Abram did, or not. That is to say, we have a choice to accept the call or not.

It is possible to accept the call, believe, and still not act on it. Abram still had an Ishmeal. Yet it is not possible to regularly hear from God and believe in the Great I AM who is standing there with us and speaking, yet never do what He asks. He is God after all. So James explained about having works of faith. So while Abram had an Ishmeal when called to have an Isaac, he also had the promise son.

So why is it? Not all believe when the call is made!
 
Upvote 0

MikeBigg

Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,673
73
Hampshire, UK
✟17,374.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
We don't need to know every little nuance of salvation and judgement to realise that there is a gospel to be preached, salvation to be embraced and a judgement to be shunned and that these things are of over-riding importance to just about everything else.

Indeed.

But ... our view on the nature and character of God and our relationship with Him affects the message we preach which in turn affects how people get saved.

For example, I find Jonathan Edwards' sermon "Sinners in the hands of an angry God" to be quite unacceptable (note the British understatement). The issue as I see it is two fold:

1) It uses fear to drive people into a relationship. Not unlike a shotgun marriage. Which is not good. By far the best basis for a relationship is love. Which was the motive behind God sending Jesus.

2) If you follow the argument through, Edwards is preaching a message where accepting Jesus saves you from God. Which is clearly bonkers.


Alternate things to feed our message to the lost are:

o It is the kindness of God that leads men to repentance.
o Jesus said: "Come to me ... for I am gentle and humble at heart and you will find rest for your souls".
o God is good. God is love.
o As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that the questions are important so that we get the right message to take to the lost so that we get new Christians born out of love into a relationship of love.

Kind regards,

Mike
 
  • Like
Reactions: skinnymike1
Upvote 0

K2K

Newbie
Jul 21, 2010
2,520
471
✟50,646.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Thank you for saying that.

I agree they are tricky issues - many, many hours have been spent, miles of ink written and millions of pixels used in the pursuit of answers.

Blessings,

Mike

Hummmm - I see where the oneness of God, like the oneness of a husband and wife, is a tricky issued or "great mystery' as the Bible has it. But the question of why we are choosen is not.

God is just and more so! As we judge, we are judged. So we need to forgive. If we give it is given to us, even packed down. So if we choose God, arn't we choosen? That would only be right. If we choose God, He choose us all the more so!

Now God wants to choose us, so many are called. But not all want to receive that calling from God. Many do not want to believe in God!! So they don't choose to believe/receive the Lord our God, and as a result they are not choosen.

It seems so simply to me -

However I do see that "many, many hours have been spent, miles of ink written and millions of pixels used in the pursuit of answers." But isn't that because they didn't choose Him? I mean - why were they writing millions of pixels in the pursurt of answers when God is just waiting there at the door to answer their questions. It becomes clear they were not pursueing God and His understanding/righteousness, but their own.

It is written they will all be taught of God, but 'they' doesn't mean 'all 'but only those that choose to listen to Him are taught by Him.

So it is not tricky at all! Choose to listen to Him when He calls you today, and He will choose you!
 
Upvote 0

K2K

Newbie
Jul 21, 2010
2,520
471
✟50,646.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Now if we choose God Today and thus listen to what He has to say to us. Doesn't He talk to us Today and listen to us also. It is written, "Today, if you hear His voice", so today is the day to hear from Him.

And God has things for us to do that will help us and others, doesn't He? Of course He does! So if you listen to Him He listens to you, and has things for you to do which will help you and others. He is wise in that way.

Still each day a choice is made. A choice by us to listen and believe that He is there to hear from, which He is. Or a choice to not listen and just do whatever we want. Indeed, this choice is available through out the day too.

So who does God choose. He chooses the people who have choosen Him and continue in that choice. He has to have people that are willing to listen to Him.

So Moses was called from the burning bush on the mountain, and Moses was choosen because he turned aside and listened. While it was clear that God knew that he would, even when Moses was a baby, that still didn't mean God didn't call Moses from the midst of the burning bush, nor that Moses didn't have a choice to make as to turning aside from his way.

So the call nor the choice came before hand, only the plan!

And when Moses choose not to follow the Lord and do what He said, then He was removed from the calling. God told Moses to speak to the rock while in front of the congregation, and Moses made a choice to not do that. Moses choose to hit the rock in front of the congregation instead of speak to the rock and it is for that reason that Moses was not allowed to lead the people into the promised land.

And that is not Moses only is it?

Deut. 5:24 ... and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that God speaks with man, yet he lives.

So the conclusion is for those called "we". We Christians have received a calling, so we need to choose to listen to God today.

Deut. 5:27 Go near and hear all that the Lord our God says;...

[So we know that we should go near, but we don't want to. We who have received the calling from God on the mountain, want to live our lives instead of the life He has called us to. So we tell others to find out what God says to us instead of seeking to listen to God for ourselves.]

...then speak to us all that the Lord our God speaks to you, and we will hear and do it.

So we see that many are called (have heard Him from the mountain) but few are choosen because they did not choice to listen to God when He spoke to them from the mountain.

They say in their heart, "For this great fire will consume us; if we hear the voice of the Lord our God any longer, then we will die" (Deut 5:25)

And they are right. If you listen to God, a great fire for God will consume you and you will turn from your way to listening to Him Today, as long as Today is called 'Today'.

Heb 3:7,8 Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says, "TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE, DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME, AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS"

But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called "Today"... (Heb 3:13)

So Today we are called, and today we are choosen if we accept/recieve the Lord in our lives TODAY.

So the why is simple to understand, but the application is more difficult because it requires dying to ourselves and being consumed by God!
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

MikeBigg

Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,673
73
Hampshire, UK
✟17,374.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
However I do see that "many, many hours have been spent, miles of ink written and millions of pixels used in the pursuit of answers." But isn't that because they didn't choose Him? I mean - why were they writing millions of pixels in the pursurt of answers when God is just waiting there at the door to answer their questions.

I think both lost and found people ask questions.

It is written they will all be taught of God, but 'they' doesn't mean 'all 'but only those that choose to listen to Him are taught by Him.

If "they" doesn't mean "all" as you say, then why was it written like that? Curious that you have to change the meaning of a clear statement to make it work with your view of what the statement should mean.

This is why I think the issues are somewhat tricky.

Regards,

Mike
 
Upvote 0

K2K

Newbie
Jul 21, 2010
2,520
471
✟50,646.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
However I do see that "many, many hours have been spent, miles of ink written and millions of pixels used in the pursuit of answers." But isn't that because they didn't choose Him? I mean - why were they writing millions of pixels in the pursurt of answers when God is just waiting there at the door to answer their questions.

I think both lost and found people ask questions.



If "they" doesn't mean "all" as you say, then why was it written like that? Curious that you have to change the meaning of a clear statement to make it work with your view of what the statement should mean.

This is why I think the issues are somewhat tricky.

Regards,

Mike

Listening to God is not tricky, but if we don't listen things get confusing.

And concerning "all", do you think that "all" are going to be in heaven, so there is no hell?

Does not a father teach His child? Yet Jesus told some that their father was the devil. Won't they wind up in hell? And as far as those being taught by God, and Jesus said His sheep hear His voice, won't "they" wind up in heaven.

And Jesus explained that there is a gate that is wide and many take that gate, but we should take the narrow road. So the many did not listen and so were not taught by God. That is apparent by the road they take. If they were being taught by Him they would be on the narrow road with Him and be hearing His voice spoken to them daily.

We can choose to listen and be taught by Him. If we choose Him when He calls us and tells us the road to take, He chooses to use us. Yet the Pharisees, whose father was the devil, thought they were of God even thought they didn't hear the Word of the Lord. So I guess you could say they were trick by their father the devil, but those that listen to the Lord, they are not tricked.

So the issued of knowing the Lord and listening to Him is not tricky at all. Seek (choose Him) and you will find Him and be choosen to do work for Him. Yet some might think the issue is tricky. That of course then is not from Him.

Mark 6:6-8 And He said to them, "Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far away from Me, Teaching as doctrines the precepts of men. Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.

We are commanded to listen to the Son. We need to seek His voice and do just that.

Prov 7:6 Listen, for I will speak noble things; and the opening of my lips will reveal right things.

My friends, Listen to the call of God for you today and He will choose to include you in His life and work.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

MikeBigg

Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,673
73
Hampshire, UK
✟17,374.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
Listening to God is not tricky, but if we don't listen things get confusing.

You'd think, wouldn't you - but, you make it sound like I don't listen. I do listen.

Yet, there are still valid questions. For example, how can the same collection of 66 books bring about Calvinism, Arminianism, Unitarianism, Trinitarianism, Universalism, Infernalism etc etc.

(Lets not discuss them individually, some aren't allowed to be discussed in this section of the forum)

These are positions held by good people, faithful Christians who would all claim to be listening to God. I think that's tricky.

And concerning "all", do you think that "all" are going to be in heaven, so there is no hell?

I don't believe that, no.
 
Upvote 0

Giver

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
5,991
249
89
USA - North Carolina
✟8,112.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Politics
US-Others
ever thought why this is ???:confused:

Yes I have though of it very often. The answer is simple. People don’t want to live the whole Word of God. People like living life as the world does.

Most people would rather trust in their armies, police force, money, rather then trust in God.

(Matthew 7:13-14) “Enter by the narrow gate since the road that leads to perdition is wide and spacious, and many take it; but it is a narrow gate and a hard road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
 
Upvote 0
P

Petruchio

Guest
You'd think, wouldn't you - but, you make it sound like I don't listen. I do listen.

Yet, there are still valid questions. For example, how can the same collection of 66 books bring about Calvinism, Arminianism, Unitarianism, Trinitarianism, Universalism, Infernalism etc etc.

(Lets not discuss them individually, some aren't allowed to be discussed in this section of the forum)

These are positions held by good people, faithful Christians who would all claim to be listening to God. I think that's tricky.

Anyone who is not a Trinitarian is most certainly damned, and I would add the same thing for those who uphold Universalism (don't know what Infernalism is, though). Whether they seem like "good people, faithful Christians" is irrelevant if they deny the essentials of Christianity and hold to heretical beliefs.
 
Upvote 0

MikeBigg

Member
Apr 13, 2010
1,673
73
Hampshire, UK
✟17,374.00
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Single
(don't know what Infernalism is, though)

I probably used the wrong word. I used it to represent the idea of eternal conscious torment - being burnt alive forever by a loving God.

An infernalist being someone who holds that view.

edit:

here are a couple of definitions of infernalism:

1. Pop Infernalism: Infernalism refers to the belief that those who do not receive Jesus as Lord and Saviour in this lifetime enter hell, defined as eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire, immediately upon death. Pop Infernalists regard unbelievers who have died to already be in hell now and forever. They cite the parable of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31) as their primary text to illustrate the immediacy and permanence of fiery judgment.

2. Final Judgment Infernalism: This position also holds that unbelievers who die without receiving Christ as Saviour are destined to eternal conscious torment, but only after the Day of Judgment at Christ’s Second Coming. F-J Infernalists disagree among themselves about what happens between death and the Last Day, but they agree that (a.) death is the deadline for salvation and (b.) that all will be resurrected, judged and cast into the Lake of Fire at that time. They cite Rev. 20:12-15 and Matt 25:31-46.

From this page: http://www.clarion-journal.com/clar...adj-jersak-who-you-callin-a-universalist.html

Mike
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0