Self-Defense

98cwitr · Mar 9, 2014

Wearecommandedtojudge said:
Think about your sister or your daughter! If a gang of degenerates were beating her, ripping her clothes off, and about to sexually assault her and there was a police officer who came upon this WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE HIM DO?

Lets say there was no police officer nearby but a civilian, a citizen, came upon that situation WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE HIM DO? (CALL THE POLICE AND WATCH???)

Jesus said do unto others as you would have done unto you right? Well what would you want for your daughter or sister in that situation? I'd want mine to be carrying a Handgun and to be able to defend herself.

I carry a handgun and I have a AR-15 at home which I keep for home defense purposes. The irony is that this has ACTUALLY kept me from having to defend myself!!!! My sister disconnected my brakes 3 times and attempted to do it a 4th time but by that time I had put an alarm in. This was over an argument we got into about abortion. She lost the debate and decided to try and kill me.

Why didn't she try to jump me with her friends and stab me? (She has threatened to stab me many many times) I am guessing because back when we were getting along she saw my collection. She not only knew I had a carry permit but also saw the AK I kept propped up in the corner of my room next to the bed. (Safety on and pointed in a safe direction, furthermore I lock up my Rifles and usually only keep one out when I am home, when leaving I'll lock it up. I am always anal about safety)

She also saw my traditionally forged Katana. She was shown that to and the knives she has (A Ka-Bar and a CRKT Neck Knife) where given to her by me. She has also seen my 5 inch long 3 inch thick Gerber fixed blade and the homemade rig I made so that the sheath would hang concealed under my shirt right by my kidney.

I actually have been known to give people weapons for free when they are in desperate situations. In the case of my sister, when I gave her the knives, she had just left an extremely violent and abusive husband and took the kid.

Why were two swords enough for the apostles? BECAUSE THAT WOULD KEEP THEM FROM BEING ROBBED! Most criminals are cowards! (Most).

Im gonna digress my previous digression

When a woman was about to be stoned by a mob, what did Jesus do? Christ also do not resist an evil person. Christ told Peter to put the sword away. Remember that.

As not to be a hypocrite, I would kill someone for abusing my wife or daughter, but I know in my heart that what Christ commands is the opposite. Maybe instead of just focusing on the commandment of Christ to judge, you should also focus on the other commands He gave as well. You're trying to justify that physical life and well being is more important than the commandments of Christ...who said that He would send His disciples out to be persecuted, flogged and beaten (Matthew 10-11). You really think this physical life is worth disobeying Him? I don't, but as a sinner and worldly I do what it is in my fallen nature to do and feel.

While I am a gun owner, I do have to ask the question: Why do we not trust God to protect us anymore?

I'll pray for your sister...she sounds like a real nutcase.

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 9, 2014

98cwitr said:
Christ told Peter to put the sword away.

However He sliced the ear off of an innocent servant and ignored what Jesus told him about having to be killed and resurrected. He attacked an innocent person.

Jesus also commanded his disciples sell their cloaks if need be to buy swords. "let him sell his garment, and buy one".

98cwitr · Mar 9, 2014

Wearecommandedtojudge said:
However He sliced the ear off of an innocent servant and ignored what Jesus told him about having to be killed and resurrected. He attacked an innocent person.

Jesus also commanded his disciples sell their cloaks if need be to buy swords. "let him sell his garment, and buy one".

And yet never commanded to use them...interesting. Dont blow the Scripture out of proportion, see why He said to do that:

Luke 22:37
It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 9, 2014

98cwitr said:
When a woman was about to be stoned by a mob, what did Jesus do? .

The mob was violating the Law and attempting to commit murder. They where not following Torah.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7807910/

As far as my focusing on his commanding judgment....it only looks like I'm obsessed with this because I have to deal with a lot of people saying "judge not", "judge not", "judge not" all the time. I interpret scripture with scripture and don't ignore anything.

98cwitr · Mar 9, 2014

Wearecommandedtojudge said:
The mob was violating the Law and attempting to commit murder. They where not following Torah.
http://www.christianforums.com/t7807910/

As far as my focusing on his commanding judgment....it only looks like I'm obsessed with this because I have to deal with a lot of people saying "judge not", "judge not", "judge not" all the time. I interpret scripture with scripture and don't ignore anything.

And neither is rape or any other crime.

Your response doesn't answer my question: What did Jesus do?

Shall we act as Peter did with the sword (or in our case a firearm)? Or as Christ?

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 9, 2014

98cwitr said:
And yet never commanded to use them...interesting. Dont blow the Scripture out of proportion, see why He said to do that:

Blow scripture out of proportion? I am not the one doing this!

Why two swords? Why not one? Why did he say "And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one."

Don't you remember Mark 6:8-9? "And commanded them that they should take nothing for their journey, save a staff only; no scrip, no bread, no money in their purse: But be shod with sandals; and not put on two coats."

DO YOU KNOW HOW IMPORTANT YOUR GARNMENT WAS THEN AND THERE???? Sell it? You used your garment to protect yourself from exposure during the day and the cold at night! JESUS WAS WITH THEM THEN but was getting ready to leave them.

BTW Jesus is God. Remember the Tanakh (Old Testament). The rules regarding self defense in the Torah.

BTW the police have guns, if you would call them while being attacked or while someone else is then that would be hypocrisy if you are against self-defense. If you wouldn't then that's not loving your neighbor nor being a good Samaritan...and would still be hypocrisy. An extremely appalling violation of scripture it would be if you saw your neighbor being brutally beaten and mugged and yet did nothing.

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 9, 2014

98cwitr said:
Shall we act as Peter did with the sword (or in our case a firearm)? Or as Christ?

Peter attacked an innocent person. A servant. This was assault. A crime.

As far as what Jesus did that thread I linked to did answer your question. Jesus enforced the Law. He did everything in that instance according to the Torah.

This is why Christians should study the Tanakh! You would have absolutely no idea what was going on in John 8 unless you have studied the Torah.

98cwitr · Mar 9, 2014

You have yet to answer my question

As it is written:

Luke 22:37
It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 10, 2014

98cwitr said:
You have yet to answer my question

As it is written:

Luke 22:37
It is written: ‘And he was numbered with the transgressors’; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment.”

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

Has the earth blown up? Has Heaven passed away? I am to lazy to get up and go outside to look can you go and check for me? I'll take a cat nap or listen to some tunes while you go outside and check ok?

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Until heaven and earth pass away, not one jot or one tittle shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled. (Mathew 6:17-18)

Now has the Antichrist come to power yet? Has Jesus returned and cast him into the lake of fire after destroying his army with his tongue and flooding The Valley of Megiddo with their blood and allowing the birds to feast off their flesh? No? Then not all is fulfilled.

BTW I guess if the Torah is abolished and we can chuck the Tanakh that means inappropriate behavior with animals, incest (other then ones stepmother 1 Cor. 5) are all ok then since these are forbidden in the Tanakh and not the NT.

So homosexuality isn't ok since that's forbidden in the New Testament(Rom. 1:26, 1 Cor. 6:9-11) but everything that is forbidden in the Tanakh which is not mentioned in the New Testament is A OK including inappropriate behavior with animals? The only type of incest mentioned in the NT is when Paul commands the Church at Corinth to kick out a man for having a sexual relationship with his stepmother. So would that mean ones biological mother or sister would not be off limits?

98cwitr · Mar 10, 2014

Ah...I see where this is going...you're a legalist huh? The new covenant was enacted when Christ came and was crucified, it's been here for millennia.

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you."

It's in His Blood...not the 2nd coming.

And you still have yet to answer my question. Should I expect you don't want to give the true answer because it would contradict your argument?

ThisBrotherOfHis · Mar 10, 2014

98cwitr said:
Ah...I see where this is going...you're a legalist huh?

That screen name shoulda been our first clue.

98cwitr · Mar 10, 2014

If we are to follow OT Law then let's just cut Hebrews out of the Bible, yes?

7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another.

I think if it weren't for Paul's writings we'd all be legalistic. I agree, Christ said that He did not come to abolish the Law, but either way He did renounce "eye for an eye" as it was being generically applied, whereas the Law was very specific about when and why to take an eye for an eye.

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Isaiah 2:4
He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, “I am strong!”

Micah 4:3
He will judge between many peoples and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 11, 2014

98cwitr said:
Matthew 26:52
Put your sword back in its place, Jesus said to him, for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Isaiah 2:4
He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

Joel 3:10
Beat your plowshares into swords and your pruning hooks into spears. Let the weakling say, I am strong!

Micah 4:3
He will judge between many peoples and will settle disputes for strong nations far and wide. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.

THOSE ARE PROHESIES...OF WHAT WILL HAPPEN WHEN JESUS RETERNS!!!
They are metaphors referring to a time when there will be no more war, violence, murder, thievery, mugging, or rape. There also will be no need for the Police, Military, prisons(other then hell) or the modern Criminal Justice system.

We still need our guns, our police forces, and our military right now! BTW speaking of which unless you are in favor of disarming the police and military, and also decommissioning our Marines, Army, Navy, and Air Force, prisons, and even are Criminal Justice System then you are being hypocritical.

98cwitr · Mar 11, 2014

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

^^^Not prophesy. When are you going to answer my question?

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 11, 2014

98cwitr said:
If we are to follow OT Law then let's just cut Hebrews out of the Bible, yes?

I am not the one ignoring scripture. I am not ignoring anything in it however you are. Lets just cut the things that Jesus said that you don't want to hear out of the Bible like where he said he came not to destroy the Law and the Prophets.

98cwitr said:
whereas the Law was very specific about when and why to take an eye for an eye.

I really wish people would study the Tanakh more carefully. It was the Hebrew GOVERNMENT that was supposed to enforce this LAW, AFTER A FAIR TRIAL!!! A private citizen could not try to enforce this on their own and would be sinning if they did so.

What did Jesus do when he was asked what the greatest law was? HE REFRENCED THE TORAH!!! Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind and love your neighbor as yourself ARE two laws FROM THE TANAKH (Old Testament). He also told people to follow the Ten Commandments.

98cwitr · Mar 11, 2014

There is nothing Christ said that I don't want to hear.

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 11, 2014

I am not a legalist, I am a scriptural realist and I use scripture to interpret scripture and take EVERYTHING Jesus said seriously.

Incidentally imagine someone you love is being assaulted and her cloths are being ripped off. A couple of cops stumble by and you ask them to help. They say "Are you a legalist? Who are we to judge? We are to busy to deal with that anyways. We were just about to go beat are Glock 17s and are badges into plowshares and are steel batons and handcuffs into pruning hooks."

98cwitr · Mar 11, 2014

Wearecommandedtojudge said:
We still need our guns, our police forces, and our military right now! BTW speaking of which unless you are in favor of disarming the police and military, and also decommissioning our Marines, Army, Navy, and Air Force, prisons, and even are Criminal Justice System then you are being hypocritical.

We still need those things because we no longer trust God to protect us.

6 But when they said, Give us a king to lead us, this displeased Samuel; so he prayed to the Lord. 7 And the Lord told him: Listen to all that the people are saying to you; it is not you they have rejected, but they have rejected me as their king. 8 As they have done from the day I brought them up out of Egypt until this day, forsaking me and serving other gods, so they are doing to you. 9 Now listen to them; but warn them solemnly and let them know what the king who will reign over them will claim as his rights.

98cwitr · Mar 11, 2014

Wearecommandedtojudge said:
I am not a legalist, I am a scriptural realist and I use scripture to interpret scripture and take EVERYTHING Jesus said seriously.

Incidentally imagine someone you love is being assaulted and her cloths are being ripped off. A couple of cops stumble by and you ask them to help. They say "Are you a legalist? Who are we to judge? We are to busy to deal with that anyways. We were just about to go beat are Glock 17s and are badges into plowshares and are steel batons and handcuffs into pruning hooks."

Isaiah 45:7
New International Version (NIV)
7 I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster;
I, the Lord, do all these things.

Wearecommandedtojudge · Mar 11, 2014

98cwitr said:
There is nothing Christ said that I don't want to hear.

Matthew 26:52
“Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword."

Actually he said all who live by the sword die by the sword. I don't make my living mugging people or terrorizing them with "the sword" like the Roman Soldiers and that particular High Priest did back then so that doesn't apply.

And he commanded his disciples to buy swords.

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