If At Large Crusades And Gatherings Hundreds Come Forward,,,but

mrhappy3 · Mar 10, 2014

Only a tiny percentage stay the course....does that mean their decision was emotional rather than heartfelt and hence never got regenerated.

Billy Graham indicated as much.

God imparts the Holy Spirit to those who he knows genuinely repent and believe.

PersephonesTear · Mar 10, 2014

mrhappy3 said:
Only a tiny percentage stay the course....does that mean their decision was emotional rather than heartfelt and hence never got regenerated.

Billy Graham indicated as much.

God imparts the Holy Spirit to those who he knows genuinely repent and believe.

I dunno if this terminology quite captures it. Emotions can be very heartfelt.

It is true that at large gatherings, much (in many cases all) of what goes on is 100% fueled by emotionalism gone rampant. That doesn't mean that God can't reach people who are caught in the throes of their (and others') own emotions.

Only God can say why it sticks with some people and not with others. He sees everything that has gone on in the heart - the emotions and all else. Also, people with whom it doesn't seem to "stick" may have had seeds planted for later. You never know.

Also note that when a decision is emotionally based, it is still a decision. Whether or not someone sticks to their commitments and choices later on, when the emotional high wears off, is also a decision.

mrhappy3 · Mar 10, 2014

PersephonesTear said:
I dunno if this terminology quite captures it. Emotions can be very heartfelt.

It is true that at large gatherings, much (in many cases all) of what goes on is 100% fueled by emotionalism gone rampant. That doesn't mean that God can't reach people who are caught in the throes of their (and others') own emotions.

Only God can say why it sticks with some people and not with others. He sees everything that has gone on in the heart - the emotions and all else. Also, people with whom it doesn't seem to "stick" may have had seeds planted for later. You never know.

Also note that when a decision is emotionally based, it is still a decision. Whether or not someone sticks to their commitments and choices later on, when the emotional high wears off, is also a decision.

great post

Faulty · Mar 10, 2014

There are these types of people talked about by Jesus in His parables.

As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Matt 13:20-21

They hear the word and receive it with joy, notice the high emotional state, endure for a while, then fall away when things get hard. This is exactly what you are describing. Jesus says they do this because they have no root in themselves.

What is this root? Jesus tells us in Revelation 22:16, "I am the root". He says they have no root, then calls Himself the root. In other words, they fall away because they don't have Jesus in themselves.

They weren't truly born again to begin with, despite their high emotional state at the time, because it isn't a matter of emotion.

gideons300 · Mar 10, 2014

mrhappy3 said:
Only a tiny percentage stay the course....does that mean their decision was emotional rather than heartfelt and hence never got regenerated.

Billy Graham indicated as much.

God imparts the Holy Spirit to those who he knows genuinely repent and believe.

Hap, I believe that there are multitudes out there, not a part of the organized church, who genuinely love the light and want to see it triumph over darkness, even the darkness within their own hearts. But the sad truth is, up till now, what weapons have we given them to fight? Have we displayed with our own walks that the armor of God is powerful and protective? Have we instructed them about their shields of faith that can quench ALL the fiery arrows of the wicked one? Have they been shown the highway OF holiness and that it is by their combining the blood of the lamb with THEIR testimony as to who they now are in Christ that they are made overcomers?

I am sure that for many, it was pure emotion, but I am just as sure that there are many currently found in the highways and byways of life, the sick who KNOW they need a physician, who will in the last days soon to come upon us be found as part of the spotless bride.

Until the world sees God sanctified IN US before their very eyes, they will by and large not believe, nor desire what we possess, a nice religious form of godliness that at its root denies the power of God to deliver us from the grip of evil. When we can stare them in the eyes and say "I am free indeed, so great is the grace of our God", then they will listen. But for many, churchianity has no appeal and makes no sense. We get forgiven, we continue to sin, we have our hell insurance card tucked safely away, and by and large, we live the same worldly lives that they do. Oh, and we spend 90 minutes a week in a nce service.

Where is the passion for God? Where is the victory He so clearly promised? Where are the cries of "Behold how they love one another!"? Those are the questions they ask, and the lack of answers confinces them that our way is not THE way. It is time we ourselves asked those hard questions and I promise, any who does and sinks down low before the Lord to "do it for them", God will indeed. We are about to discover how free indeed FREE INDEED really means.

But first, we must see a church brought low with tears and mourning, for the shallow lives we have tried to pass off as genuine "book of Acts" Christianity. And when we do, all heaven is going to break out in our midst and we will not only become like those of the book of Acts, we will SURPASS them!. Praise God! It is coming. God has promised it.

Blessings,

Gideon

ByTheSpirit · Mar 10, 2014

Faulty said:
There are these types of people talked about by Jesus in His parables.

As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Matt 13:20-21

They hear the word and receive it with joy, notice the high emotional state, endure for a while, then fall away when things get hard. This is exactly what you are describing. Jesus says they do this because they have no root in themselves.

What is this root? Jesus tells us in Revelation 22:16, "I am the root". He says they have no root, then calls Himself the root. In other words, they fall away because they don't have Jesus in themselves.

They weren't truly born again to begin with, despite their high emotional state at the time, because it isn't a matter of emotion.

awesome post brother! I'm in agreement with this

gideons300 · Mar 10, 2014

Faulty said:
There are these types of people talked about by Jesus in His parables.

As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while, and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.
Matt 13:20-21
They hear the word and receive it with joy, notice the high emotional state, endure for a while, then fall away when things get hard. This is exactly what you are describing. Jesus says they do this because they have no root in themselves.

What is this root? Jesus tells us in Revelation 22:16, "I am the root". He says they have no root, then calls Himself the root. In other words, they fall away because they don't have Jesus in themselves.

They weren't truly born again to begin with, despite their high emotional state at the time, because it isn't a matter of emotion.

And yet, we who are the elect, if we are abiding in Jesus, having made our tree good, is it not promised that we would bring forth much fruit? Did Christ not promise us that we could NOT bring forth bad fruit?

What of the other soil, the ones who rooted shallowly and never dug deep, getting down to rooting out the fleshly nature? How about those growing in soil where the weeds are actively growing? Where the cares of this life are choing the life out of the good seed that indeed did sprout?

Shall we pride ourselves of not being the ones who fell away quickly? Do we not see the very lesson here is to grow up into Him in ALL things, to endure to the end, to guard against the cares of this life, to grow DEEP on the faith, trusting God to perform what he has promised us?

Paul said that he gave diligence to make sure that He apprehend that for which he was apprehended. May that revelation come upon us as well.

Blessings,

Gideon

Faulty · Mar 10, 2014

Jesus didn't say they fell away because they didn't dig deep. He said they had no root to which to use to dig deep.

It's not a matter of desire or striving on the part of the individual, but rather a matter of ability. They couldn't go deep because they don't have the root to begin with.

hislegacy · Mar 10, 2014

mrhappy3 said:
Only a tiny percentage stay the course....does that mean their decision was emotional rather than heartfelt and hence never got regenerated.

Billy Graham indicated as much.

God imparts the Holy Spirit to those who he knows genuinely repent and believe.

Sort of like trying to find out how many of the 5,000 who were added to the church in Acts stayed?

JGiddings · Mar 10, 2014

People get caught up in the moment. Some continue to mature in their new found faith...some don't.

whatfor · Mar 10, 2014

I read this a while back, when someone asked Carlos Anacondia why the western church only about 8% stayed in church and in Brasil it was about 80% not sure if that was correct it was from memory.
He answered because we get them saved then leave it at that, in his church they immediately were delivered .

gideons300 · Mar 10, 2014

Faulty said:
Jesus didn't say they fell away because they didn't dig deep. He said they had no root to which to use to dig deep.

It's not a matter of desire or striving on the part of the individual, but rather a matter of ability. They couldn't go deep because they don't have the root to begin with.

Brother, if we want to go over it with a fine toothed comb, we are told they had no root in themselves, and thus could not endure to the end. The seed sprouted to newness of life, but they stayed rooted in the old man, and never lost their life to let the life of Jesus reign supreme in them. They had no desire to become living sacrifices, quite content to be saved but not safe.

What we have accepted as truth, that we can have Jesus as our savior from the penalty of our sins, but have no desire to let Him reign supreme as Lord as well, that is going to go by the wayside. We will have to choose as we all enter the valley of decision. We are going to have to count the cost of following Him....our life for His in us. We are going to have to dig deep to see who really is our treasure..... our Lord....or us.

May we all make the choice that those who are the elect will make in these last days. It matters not how far we are found from this right now. The key is....which way are we facing? Are we facing our God, letting His Spirit woo us, instruct us, chasten us, convict us, so that He can take His rightful place as our owner who bought us and redeemed us so that He can become our all in all? Or, are we found digging in our heels, refusing to yield all, thinking that a "work" that grace set us free from? The mixture we have all lived, a little flesh, a little spirit, it may have sufficed up till now, but no longer. If we love the light, we are asked to run into it, to let go of the dark part in us and to reckon that we are dead to it. When we do, our entire lives will be revolutionized. It is coming, and it will be awesome.

Blessings,

Gideon

ByTheSpirit · Mar 10, 2014

I thought the Holy Spirit dwelled WITHIN all those who believed... So isn't He our root in Christ?

Christ is the VINE
The Father is the VINEDRESSER
The Spirit is the ROOT that secures us in Christ, for we ARE secure in Christ.

Saying I must do something extra to make sure I'm saved is adding to the gospel. That is the truth.

Hebrews 7:25 ESV
Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

*SIDENOTE* I know of no scripture that says specifically the Holy Spirit is our root, only that He secures (seals) us forever in Christ. Chop it up as you may, my opinion

Faulty · Mar 10, 2014

gideons300 said:
Brother, if we want to go over it with a fine toothed comb, we are told they had no root in themselves, and thus could not endure to the end. The seed sprouted to newness of life, but they stayed rooted in the old man, and never lost their life to let the life of Jesus reign supreme in them. They had no desire to become living sacrifices, quite content to be saved but not safe.

What we have accepted as truth, that we can have Jesus as our savior from the penalty of our sins, but have no desire to let Him reign supreme as Lord as well, that is going to go by the wayside. We will have to choose as we all enter the valley of decision. We are going to have to count the cost of following Him....our life for His in us. We are going to have to dig deep to see who really is our treasure..... our Lord....or us.

May we all make the choice that those who are the elect will make in these last days. It matters not how far we are found from this right now. The key is....which way are we facing? Are we facing our God, letting His Spirit woo us, instruct us, chasten us, convict us, so that He can take His rightful place as our owner who bought us and redeemed us so that He can become our all in all? Or, are we found digging in our heels, refusing to yield all, thinking that a "work" that grace set us free from? The mixture we have all lived, a little flesh, a little spirit, it may have sufficed up till now, but no longer. If we love the light, we are asked to run into it, to let go of the dark part in us and to reckon that we are dead to it. When we do, our entire lives will be revolutionized. It is coming, and it will be awesome.

Blessings,

Gideon

You are assigning a definition to "root" based on what you want it to mean. Who is the root, biblically?

Jesus said He was the root. If you disagree, show me the passage where you are getting your definition. Otherwise, it looks like you are bringing your suppositions into the scriptures, rather than deriving them from the scriptures.

JimB · Mar 11, 2014

mrhappy3 said:
Only a tiny percentage stay the course....does that mean their decision was emotional rather than heartfelt and hence never got regenerated.

Billy Graham indicated as much.

God imparts the Holy Spirit to those who he knows genuinely repent and believe.

I am not a big fan of the traditional “altar call” invented by D.L. Moody and popularized by Billy Graham. The invitation to “come forward” attracts monkey-see-monkey-do responses from people. I have participated in two major Billy Graham “crusades” and was told by a rep of the association that the key to getting people to respond is that the “counselors” should rise and walk to the front first and people feeling a tug of remorse (I think we call it “conviction&#8221

will see the response and feel the courage to join them. That sounded a bit like manipulation to me and when I first heard it it was kind of a put-off.

IMO, real conviction comes from the Spirit of God and God does not need an evangelist or an altar call to accomplish what God intends. Granted, responses to altar calls (i.e., “decisions for Christ&#8221

are popular and make the preacher/church look good but even BGEA admits that the long-lasting results of these “decisions” leave something to be desired. Maybe if we would let God handle ho a person responds to the Good News and just preach the gospel like we are told to do, we would have a better batting average.

mrhappy3 · Mar 11, 2014

Good post

ByTheSpirit · Mar 11, 2014

JimB said:
I am not a big fan of the traditional altar call invented by D.L. Moody and popularized by Billy Graham. The invitation to come forward attracts monkey-see-monkey-do responses from people. I have participated in two major Billy Graham crusades and was told by a rep of the association that the key to getting people to respond is that the counselors should rise and walk to the front first and people feeling a tug of remorse (I think we call it conviction) will see the response and feel the courage to join them. That sounded a bit like manipulation to me and when I first heard it it was kind of a put-off.

IMO, real conviction comes from the Spirit of God and God does not need an evangelist or an altar call to accomplish what God intends. Granted, responses to altar calls (i.e., decisions for Christ) are popular and make the preacher/church look good but even BGEA admits that the long-lasting results of these decisions leave something to be desired. Maybe if we would let God handle ho a person responds to the Good News and just preach the gospel like we are told to do, we would have a better batting average.

I didn't really like the Way of the Master Evangelism technique, but one MAJOR thing I did take away from it was not to press or pressure people into making a decision. If the Holy Spirit is convicting somebody, they will "say what they need to say" to be saved. The heart's cry before God in confession is all that is needed, which is why I am not necessarily against the "Sinner's Prayer" I just don't use it anymore. I could care less how many I know I've led to Christ. I can live my life in love and faith and someone just see me and never approach me but by my actions alone they get a seed planted in them and one day accept Christ. That is credited to me as much as the other and yet I have no knowledge of that. So I agree with you Jim. I think alter calls are just a way to "verify" of sorts a big lavish crusade style meeting.

MikeBigg · Mar 11, 2014

Here's a thing ... so we don't go off on the idea that there is no fruit from such meetings ... the guy who led me to the Lord came to the Lord himself at a Billy Graham crusade in London in the 1960s.

I have also led a bunch of people to God (not as many as I'd like).

And I know that one of the people I led to the Lord visits old folks homes and regularly leads men and women to God, some in the last weeks of their life.

This is not to say there aren't questions to ask, but lets not forget the good fruit.

Kind regards,

Mike

hislegacy · Mar 11, 2014

Faulty said:
Jesus didn't say they fell away because they didn't dig deep. He said they had no root to which to use to dig deep.

It's not a matter of desire or striving on the part of the individual, but rather a matter of ability. They couldn't go deep because they don't have the root to begin with.

Good observation -

mrhappy3 · Mar 11, 2014

Jesus didn't say they fell away because they didn't dig deep. He said they had no root to which to use to dig deep.

It's not a matter of desire or striving on the part of the individual, but rather a matter of ability. They couldn't go deep because they don't have the root to begin with.
Good observation -

so this mob were NEVER born again in the first place...??? makes you wonder how they endured then for the length of time they did. Unless of course they were born again...mmm)

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