I would be Catholic if ________

FearlessHeart

Regular Member
Apr 14, 2013
415
437
Bars of bones hold my soul
✟9,086.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
This thread is more about asking questions and looking for insight/answers.

I was raised baptist and have been a member of a non denominational, evangelical church. First let me say I have ALWAYS thought and felt that Christ is physically and literally present in communion. And I believe that scripture affirms that. I have a catholic friend and have emailed a priest and they are adamant that salvation is by faith in Christ, and that faith is alone is what gives you eternal life.

Having said that, can anyone point to me scripture or reasons we pray for the deceased' salvation? And also why we pray to/and for Mary and the saints? I'm having a hard time finding scriptural references for these actions.

I'm really looking forward to reading responses. Thanks

Even so, come Lord Jesus
 
  • Like
Reactions: tonguesoffire

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,062
4,740
✟836,995.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
I would first note that each of the three practices that you mention are not required.

PRAYING FOR THE SALVATION OF THE DEAD
Catholics may pray for those in Purgatory, that their journey may be lest painful. Purgatory is for those who already "saved", so we are not praying for the salvation of the dead. We might pray at a funeral for dead relatives, but that isn't much different than Baptists (we make the same error). Purgatory can be considered the mudroom of heaven, or the way station where we are purified. There are many acceptable ways of thinking of this.

PRAYING TO MARY AND THE SAINTS
We pray WITH Mary and the saints. We ask Mary or the saints to pray for us.
We can only pray TO God. We understand that we are a community of saints/believers, on earth, in heaven and yet to be born. Baptist will often pray for others or ask others to pray for them. Or we might pray with others for those in Ukraine. Obviously, there is much abuse and misunderstanding and superstition in some of these practices. Please understand that the Church is clear. We do NOT and should NOT pray to Mary or to the saints.

Please feel free to continue to ask questions. Many of us were Baptists or have Baptist friends and relatives. So, we deal with the question often, and have done so in our own lives.

This thread is more about asking questions and looking for insight/answers.

I was raised baptist and have been a member of a non denominational, evangelical church. First let me say I have ALWAYS thought and felt that Christ is physically and literally present in communion. And I believe that scripture affirms that. I have a catholic friend and have emailed a priest and they are adamant that salvation is by faith in Christ, and that faith is alone is what gives you eternal life.

Having said that, can anyone point to me scripture or reasons we pray for the deceased' salvation? And also why we pray to/and for Mary and the saints? I'm having a hard time finding scriptural references for these actions.

I'm really looking forward to reading responses. Thanks

Even so, come Lord Jesus
 
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,252
55,994
Woods
✟4,649,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Read through this & see if this helps you out at all.

The Intercession of the Saints
Fundamentalists often challenge the Catholic practice of asking saints and angels to pray on our behalf. But the Bible directs us to invoke...



Praying to the Saints
The historic Christian practice of asking our departed brothers and sisters in Christ—the saints—for their intercession has come under...




Saint Worship?
The word "worship" has undergone a change in meaning in English. It comes from the Old English weorthscipe, which means the condition of...

Immaculate Conception and Assumption
The Marian doctrines are, for Fundamentalists, among the most bothersome of the Catholic Church’s teachings. In this tract we’ll examine...



Mary: Ever Virgin
Most Protestants claim that Mary bore children other than Jesus. To support their claim, these Protestants refer to the biblical passages...




Mary: "Full of Grace"
The Fathers of the Church taught that Mary received a number of distinctive blessings in order to make her a more fitting mother for Christ...




Mary: Mother of God
Fundamentalists are sometimes horrified when the Virgin Mary is referred to as the Mother of God. However, their reaction often rests upon a...
 
Upvote 0

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
166,252
55,994
Woods
✟4,649,367.00
Country
United States
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You might find this helpful as well.

Not by Scripture Alone

In 1947, a group of Christians in Nebraska formed a fellowship known today as the Berean Church Fellowship. The name of the group is borrowed from the Acts of the Apostles 17:11, which the group quotes on their Web site (www.bereanchurchfellowship.org): "Now the Bereans… Received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."

The fellowship’s Articles of Faith begin with the following statement: "We believe the Bible, consisting of both the Old and New Testament Scriptures in their entirety, is the only divinely inspired, inerrant, objectively true, and authoritative written Word of God, and the only infallible rule of faith and practice."

In other words, the fellowship subscribes to the doctrine of sola scriptura ("by scripture alone") and believes it patterns itself after the Bereans about which Luke wrote. Using this verse as evidence against Tradition is not really unusual; in fact, many sola scriptura adherents quote Acts 17:11 as "proof" that the Bible is the sole rule of the Christian faith.

Some seem to imagine the Bereans to be a group of early Christians faithfully living according to what the Bible teaches when Paul comes along claiming to be a teacher. They listen to what he has to say but they also cautiously compare his teachings to what their Bibles say in order to be sure that what Paul is saying is authentic Christian doctrine.

Interestingly, though, a closer look at Acts 17:11 reveals that the people of Berea were not sola scriptura adherents at all. In actuality, they were primarily Jews converting to Christianity through Paul’s use of Sacred Tradition. Here’s the verse within its fuller context:
The brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea; and when they arrived they went into the Jewish synagogue. Now these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. (Acts 17:10-12)
Luke’s words commend the Bereans for being more noble than the Thessalonians because they eagerly received "the word." They also examined the scriptures to see if the word was true. So just who were the Bereans? What was "the word" they received and what scriptures did they examine?

Before the New Testament

The Bereans, we’re told, were mainly Jews (and some Greeks), not Christians, and they even had a Jewish synagogue. The word they received was Paul’s teaching about Jesus?that same teaching which he sums up in his first letter to the Corinthians, "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures" (1 Cor. 15:3). The scriptures mentioned here by Paul are the same scriptures which the Bereans examined?the Old Testament scriptures. These were the only scriptures of the day, as no New Testament Scripture existed at the time. Most of the New Testament had not yet been written and what had been written had not yet been canonized so as to attain the status of Scripture. What we see here is a group of people being taught about Christianity by Paul prior to the existence of the New Testament. They eagerly listened to Paul while examining the Old Testament Scripture.

This all makes sense when we understand this event in its historical context. The event occurred during Paul’s second missionary journey. On his journeys Paul taught the good news of Christianity as Jesus had commissioned him to do. As a Jewish convert to Christianity himself, he knew Jewish Scripture well and he knew that it prophesied about Jesus. He undoubtedly explained this Scripture to enlighten other Jews about the truth of Christianity. These Jews would have to examine their Old Testament Scripture to see if what Paul was saying made sense. It did, and many Jews, including some of the Bereans, became Christians.

Not of Human Origin

Continued- http://www.catholic.com/magazine/articles/not-by-scripture-alone
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
FearlessHeart said:
Having said that, can anyone point to me scripture or reasons we pray for the deceased' salvation?
Why would you not? It's right, natural and appropriate that we continue to care about the salvation of those who have passed away; how could it be wrong to bring our cares to God in prayer?
 
Upvote 0

mark46

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jan 29, 2010
20,062
4,740
✟836,995.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Democrat
One does not have to receive communion in order to enjoy a Catholic service, or an Orthodox one for that matter.

If it were not for the closed communion I would be a regular at St Mary's Catholic in Blacksburg. I see good in all the churches and like the freedom of enjoying them all.
 
Upvote 0

graciesings

It is so ordered.
Mar 11, 2013
6,058
972
Texas
✟18,462.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
I'm glad God has stirred your soul to be curious and investigate other beliefs. No matter where you end up, it is an awesome gift to be moved to study God.

God has led me to convert to Catholicism, but I will not be leaving my parents church until I leave home this summer.

May I give you a list of websites that have helped me (and are helping me) on my journey?

http://chnetwork.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/The-Verses-I-Never-Saw.pdf

Adoro Ergo Sum

Unapologetically Catholic | Living the Catholic Faith (look at his FAQ)

Protestant ministers converting to the Catholic Church - Conversion Stories, Fellowship, Catholic Media

John Salza Apologetics: Scripture/Fathers (Links are way down the page, very explanatory.

Catholic Answers Forums (Less fun than CF but more Catholics, huge community)

http://www.catholic.org/

I hope some of these help and hope you don't mind being told to do your own research! :) These are neat sites, though, they answer questions I would not have thought of!

God bless you on your journey,
Grace
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Galilee63

Newbie
Dec 14, 2013
2,045
329
Australia
✟43,924.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
The Old Testament verse states the necessity of purgation after death where such purgation takes place ie Purgatory in which I have been taught through Jesus/God and our Heavenly Mother Mary the term "Holy Purgatory" when I pray for all the Souls in Holy Purgatory.

2 Maccabees 12:46:

It is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead, that they may be loosed from sins.

Our Heavenly Mother Mary is saying:

"Further My Children, pray for your Loved Ones when dying My Children, for the forgiveness of their sins to My Son Jesus your Saviour and Me, My Children".

"That is all"

received at 4:15 from our Heavenly Mother Mary
 
Upvote 0

Aces High

Veteran
Jun 27, 2006
2,171
54
36
Sydney
✟17,627.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
The problem for most Protestants is that the book of Maccabees is not included in their version of the Bible, it's considered part of the deuterocanonicals.

It's a shame because they are missing out on a lot of wisdom, especially from the Book of Ecclesiasticus (Sirach).

Anyhow, my intention is not to turn this into a Biblical debate. But the answers you seek can be gathered from various books in the Bible. The long and short of it is that physical death does not separate us spiritually, we all have souls, we are spiritually connected. Prayer is a spiritual act, not physical. Therefore, physical death does not separate the communion of souls.

Souls currently in heaven can pray for us, souls on Earth with us can pray for us. It is called intercession, no different to asking someone here to pray for you.

There is devotion in particular to the famous saints such as Mary, Joseph, Anthony, etc. because they were righteous human beings, the Bible teaches that the prayers of a righteous human is powerful. This is why we ask for their intercession. This devotion is really no different to the famous pastors/priests and religious leaders of our time. How many people line up and ask Billy Graham to pray for them? How many ask the Pope to pray for them? Many. It's no different to the souls in heaven.

I am sorry I cannot give you direct quotes from the Bible as I don't keep a list in my head, but search for it and you will definitely find it.
 
Upvote 0

FearlessHeart

Regular Member
Apr 14, 2013
415
437
Bars of bones hold my soul
✟9,086.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for the replies everyone. Believe it or not Flannery O' Connor is the one who has got me interested in Catholicism. I appreciate all the posts and will take some time to look through the links. I certainly can't believe that those in heaven are praying for us, and I also don't believe that God would give more consideration to Billy Graham's prayer than mine. That seems like a silly comparison to make.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tonguesoffire
Upvote 0
Oct 15, 2008
19,375
7,273
Central California
✟274,079.00
Country
United States
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Why pray to the Theotokos? Mary, the Mother of God, shares the very blood of her Son, Our Savior. They have a physical and spiritual bond that goes beyond mere human understandings of the divine. She without stain bore God the Word and ushered in our salvation. Her willingness to say "yes" to God and to have a life of sacrifice, bearing so much pain, and enduring the Passion, she is so holy. The Theotokos points the way to Our Lord.

No one is closer to the Savior of the World than the Theotokos. If we are wiling to ask friends and coworkers to pray for us, then how much MORE should we be willing to ask the Mother of God to do so!

Full of grace, the second ark, the fountain of hope, Queen of Heaven, more honorable than the cherubim, more glorious beyond compare than the seraphim. Aside from God, NO ONE loves us more!

Have no fear in praying to the Theotokos! :crosseo:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Aces High

Veteran
Jun 27, 2006
2,171
54
36
Sydney
✟17,627.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
Thanks for the replies everyone. Believe it or not Flannery O' Connor is the one who has got me interested in Catholicism. I appreciate all the posts and will take some time to look through the links. I certainly can't believe that those in heaven are praying for us, and I also don't believe that God would give more consideration to Billy Graham's prayer than mine. That seems like a silly comparison to make.

That is not what I said, don't misrepresent my post.

The Bible does state that the prayers of a righteous person are powerful. It is not a competition, read into it what you will.
 
Upvote 0

Brooklyn Knight

On a narrow road but not narrow minded
Nov 21, 2011
4,438
187
Brooklyn, NY
✟13,065.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Others
What are the reasons that Priests do not marry?

Better devotion to God, walk the same path as Christ and the Apostles as neither also were wed.

_____________________

Praying to Mary and the Saints is mostly them praying for us.

It's like God is the Don, and you are asking the consigliere and the underbosses to put in a good word for you.

...I really shouldn't compare Heaven with la cosa nostra.
 
Upvote 0

ebia

Senior Contributor
Jul 6, 2004
41,711
2,142
A very long way away. Sometimes even further.
✟54,775.00
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Politics
AU-Greens
Brooklyn Knight said:
walk the same path as [...] the Apostles as neither also were wed.
Eh? We know Peter was married. Do we know either way for any of the others?

I'm guessing you meant to say something somewhat different to the way it came out, but I can't figure what.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Brooklyn Knight

On a narrow road but not narrow minded
Nov 21, 2011
4,438
187
Brooklyn, NY
✟13,065.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Engaged
Politics
US-Others
Eh? We know Peter was married. Do we know either way for any of the others?

I'm guessing you meant to say something somewhat different to the way it came out, but I can't figure what.

Not when Peter was a disciple.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums