A question for vegetarians

Eating meat is not natural to our bodies, we were never meant to do it. It is for your own health and let me tell you as I get into the later years, I am finding the damage and the results of bad health habits. Eating meat adds nothing to your life, but the downside is extensive. While as for fruits, vegetables, and grains and nuts have a great upside and I am finding for myself, restoring and detoxifying benefits. I am fighting several issues of health and as I read, and not Adventist articles, I am finding how organic and natural foods help. Foods from as close to the Garden of Eden as we can get, God knew what He gave us and it was good.

God Bless,
Rick

I am a vegetarian and and have been for years. Regarding biblical mandates for being one there are a few directives but probably as many references to eating meat. If you are pro vegetarian the bible will have many verses stand out to you and guide you. its really hard to use the bible to be your reason for abstaining from meat as for as many verses i have found saying you should only be vegetarian someone else thinks of one that is pro meat.

One thing the bible is clear on is God made man an intelligent creature with free will to make choices. Nowadays we live under Grace and are more able to choose via personal preferences. I guess it is our choice to eat something good for us or alleviate the suffering of other creatures who need not die or suffer for our emotional desires.

I can tell you though without needing scientific studies it will change you and make you feel much better inside eliminating animal products from your diet.

Many years ago I made the change without looking into it from a health perspective, I did it because i am really repulsed by the idea of killing and consuming meat.

When I did it it was like Wow this is so good why didn't I do it sooner because there are mental and spiritual benefits as well as physical cleanliness. There is the ageing slower thing too.

715. While we do not make the use of flesh meat a test, while we do not want to force any one to give up its use, yet it is our duty to request that no minister of the conference shall make light of or oppose the message of reform on this point. If, in the face of the light God has given concerning the effect of meat eating on the system, you will still continue to eat meat, you must bear the consequences. But do not take a position before the people that will permit them to think that it is not necessary to call for a reform in regard to meat eating; because the Lord is calling for a reform. The Lord has given us the work of proclaiming the message of health reform, and if you cannot step forward in the ranks of those who are giving this message you are not to make this prominent. In counterworking the efforts of your fellow laborers, who are teaching health reform, you are out of order, working on the wrong side.—Letter 48, 1902

Yes, Christ ate fish and meat--but we have to consider the times also. Animals were raised at home, mostly. They were well treated and killed within merciful guidelines. It was not eaten 3 times a day--sometimes used only for special occasions, feast days. Animals were a sign of wealth and the poorer classes could not afford to have it on a daily basis. There were also guidelines about what parts to eat and not eat and what to sacrifice. Animals were not loaded with hormones and antibiotics, either.
I'm sure they drank milk, and ate cheese--but it was usually sheep or goats milk and the cheeses were usually the soft ones--they really didn't have cheddar! There were some cattle, (fatted calf) and that was given to the 3 "visitors" by Abraham and they ate it. But nowadays, things are all getting very unhealthy. Cattle are given food that is not natural to them, with many additives and are encouraged to be fat. I used to love duck liver (foi gras)--then I saw how they took those poor ducks and had them in tiny cages and would force a tube down their throats and stuff them with food to make them fat and have the fatty livers---I have never been able to get that picture out of my mind and can't stand the thought of eating liver pate.
Animals who are meat eaters are described as having short digestive tracks. That's because meat starts to rot pretty quickly. Animals who are vegaterians have long digestive tracts, it takes longer to digest plant matter than meat. Humans have long digestive tracks. And meat starts to rot. So that whole business of we're created to eat meat is bogus.
I felt better, and weighed a whole lot less, when I was vegetarian. My husband is a meat eater, but though not SDA, he has eaten only the clean meats (unless he goes out to eat and gets other stuff)--and even he noticed when he ate pork he didn't feel very well. We stick to the clean fish also. I would like to get back to being vegetarian and am trying to do more.
Strange thing--my husband had perianal cancer over 10 years ago and had been getting yearly colonoscopies--then he let a couple years go by and when he went back to get one--the last 4-5 attempts have been unsuccessful. He would not clear. He followed all instructions, but his bowel would not clear enough for them to see. They say he has a slow digestion--so this time, which starts in a couple days, he was instructed to go vegetarian for one week and then 3 days of clear fluids only (the last ones were 2 days of fluids only). Interesting that the dr's want a vegetarian diet for a week in order to try and see if he clears.
One thing I know is---if we had to kill our own meat, there would be a whole lot more vegetarians. It is very hard to kill a thing you have raised from birth and named and loved. I had a couple friends who bought a place with some acreage so they could grow their own stuff and had their goats, chickens, ducks, a couple geese, and even pheasants. They made an agreement--if they named it, they couldn't eat it--so she would hover over an expectent mother and as soon as it popped out, she'd name it!--He had to put a stop to it, but it was very hard for him to kill them anyway. And how in the world can you kill a pheasant--they are beautiful! And I tried hunting--went deer hunting with bow and arrow--we had a beautiful buck, dead on, clear shot--neither one of us could do it, we just sat there and watched it.
This whole planet is polluted--we have even managed to pollute our oceans and fish are being brought up full of worms and plastic in their guts--the birds are flying in poolluted air and as the bible says--Jesus will come before there is nothing left!

Oh, yah--don't forget about Daniel and his buddies.

Hey ECR

Glad you are back!!!

I think the whole vegan/vegetarian thing is a test of faith

Romans says:

One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

Its all about faith... if I have faith I can eat meat, if my faith is weak I eat only vegetables... thats the word of God, so IMHO any concepts of not eating meat because of masturbation, spirituality etc. are inherently wrong, or at least go against the direction of the bible and truth as was given to us

[

JohnMarsten said:

Hey ECR

Glad you are back!!!

I think the whole vegan/vegetarian thing is a test of faith

Romans says:

One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.

Its all about faith... if I have faith I can eat meat, if my faith is weak I eat only vegetables... thats the word of God, so IMHO any concepts of not eating meat because of masturbation, spirituality etc. are inherently wrong, or at least go against the direction of the bible and truth as was given to us

Click to expand...

......... Change your,"Newbie" status on, "User CP"

EastCoastRemnant said:

Thanx for the replies! I have given it up to the Holy Spirit to guide me but I appreciate your 'food for thought'.

ChrisLeishy, could you provide what you consider pro veggie verses for me? Thanx...

John, that verse in Romans, I believe, is more referring to the controversy of eating or not eating meat that was prepared for sacrifice to idols...

How do you read the following passage?

1 Timothy 4:1-3

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Click to expand...

ECR, one passage does not necessarily lead to another...

As far as food sacrificed to idols are concerned, we read in revelation that this is not a good thing, (I know we have different positions on it in the NT).

As far as your timothy passage is concerned, I could only guess what it means... lets leave this for now...

The most important aspects in regard to meat eating, for me personally are the following:

1. Jesus ate meat!!!

2. God not only allowed it in the OT but also incorporated it into the Jewish religion,

3. Jesus ate meat after the resurrection, so this would be sufficient to me to make a decision

4. Paul states it is good not to eat meat nor drink wine, but the choice is given to us, which means, nobody should for me or anyone else to either eat meat or not to eat meat...

5. the relation (according to EGW) between meat and masturbation... well... is kind of blown apart by a statement of Paul (would need to find it... dont have time right now)



Finally, I think you should do what your conscience is telling you, what makes you feel right, dont force yourself into an unnecessary abstinence, it will only cause headaches... besides in the SDA you will find a general tendency that vegetarians are regarded closes to Jesus, vegans are considered to be even more spiritual... think we can all agree on this subject... IMHO this is totally wrong! How can one regard another to be closer... did Jesus tell them so? ,

JohnMarsten said:

ECR, one passage does not necessarily lead to another...

As far as food sacrificed to idols are concerned, we read in revelation that this is not a good thing, (I know we have different positions on it in the NT).

As far as your timothy passage is concerned, I could only guess what it means... lets leave this for now...

The most important aspects in regard to meat eating, for me personally are the following:

1. Jesus ate meat!!!

2. God not only allowed it in the OT but also incorporated it into the Jewish religion,

3. Jesus ate meat after the resurrection, so this would be sufficient to me to make a decision

4. Paul states it is good not to eat meat nor drink wine, but the choice is given to us, which means, nobody should for me or anyone else to either eat meat or not to eat meat...

5. the relation (according to EGW) between meat and masturbation... well... is kind of blown apart by a statement of Paul (would need to find it... dont have time right now)



Finally, I think you should do what your conscience is telling you, what makes you feel right, dont force yourself into an unnecessary abstinence, it will only cause headaches... besides in the SDA you will find a general tendency that vegetarians are regarded closes to Jesus, vegans are considered to be even more spiritual... think we can all agree on this subject... IMHO this is totally wrong! How can one regard another to be closer... did Jesus tell them so? ,

Click to expand...

Daniel also ate meat. Only during times of prayer did Daniel abstain from eating sweet bread and meat. Daniel was not a vegan. John the baptist also ate meat in the form of grasshoppers/ locust. Some will try to argue locust was a plant, a word study in the original text proves otherwise.

EastCoastRemnant said:

Can you provide the texts for Daniel eating meat? I know he ate 'pulse' (veggies) when offered the kings portion at the beginning of his captivity.

Thanx...

Click to expand...

In Daniel 10: 2-3 It states for only three weeks he did not eat flesh meat, sweet bread or wine/fruit of the vine. After those three weeks he did.

EastCoastRemnant said:

I have been praying for a while now for the Lord to lead me in understanding a question I have in regard to the health reform directive of no meat eating.

To put it simply, I can understand the Biblical diet in regards to meat eating because it is stated twice, once in Deut. and again in Leviticus. The clean and unclean... what I'm having difficulty wrapping my carnal thick head around, is that our example in all things, Jesus, followed the clean and unclean diet principles... he ate lamb and fish and possibly other flesh foods. If SOP is the lesser light illuminating the greater, why is the teaching of meat abstinence contrary to what our Saviour did? I am perplexed as to why Jesus made no mention of such a thing if it was to be of such great importance in the last days... according to some in the church, it is a salvation issue. Would Jesus be rejected by the church today because of this issue?

Please help me to understand this so that the Holy Spirit can lead me into all truth...
Thanx...

Ken

Click to expand...

I'm sure some would ask Jesus to leave if he provided fish and gluten bread on the Sabbath.

JDMiowa said:

I'm sure some would ask him to leave if he brought fish and gluten bread on the Sabbath.

Click to expand...

... that is only if they had forgotten that the kingdom of heaven is not about eating and drinking...

I am perplexed as to why Jesus made no mention of such a thing if it was to be of such great importance in the last days... according to some in the church, it is a salvation issue

Click to expand...

Please explain this to me, because I am A bit confused. Why is it of such importance. I haven't ever heard someone say "If you (Do/Dont) Eat chicken your salvation is jeopardized?

Or are you talking about keeping kosher.

I rarely eat meat. I eat tuna almost daily.
I dont think eating/ not eating meat is a sin.

If you are asking weather or not we should eat only kosher meats, I am not sure. I stay away from pork, lobster, shrimp..etc anyways.

AlyssaJulianna said:

Please explain this to me, because I am A bit confused. Why is it of such importance. I haven't ever heard someone say "If you (Do/Dont) Eat chicken your salvation is jeopardized?

Or are you talking about keeping kosher.

I rarely eat meat. I eat tuna almost daily.
I dont think eating/ not eating meat is a sin.

If you are asking weather or not we should eat only kosher meats, I am not sure. I stay away from pork, lobster, shrimp..etc anyways.

Click to expand...

So it seems, at the beginning. When you get more into the SDA then you will realize there are different kinds of groups with differents kinds of opinions, I remember a guy telling me EGW claimed that meat eaters wont enter heaven, I never looked it up though... maybe someone could shed a light on this...

I'm sorry to say,"I believe eastern religion has come into the SDA church." I even saw art work of animals with human eyes in the youth Sabbath school room. Some are trying to indoctrinate the youth into thinking animals are equal to humans.

[

JohnMarsten said:

So it seems, at the beginning. When you get more into the SDA then you will realize there are different kinds of groups with differents kinds of opinions, I remember a guy telling me EGW claimed that meat eaters wont enter heaven, I never looked it up though... maybe someone could shed a light on this...

Click to expand...

Huh... I know in genesis 27 there is talk of meat...

(Genesis 27:31)
Genesis 27: 4)
..etc

It doesnt seem that its sinful to me.