Gluttony and greed issue. Is living in gluttony living in sin?

ChrisLeishy · Mar 8, 2014

I know it is an old term to use but I have really felt God want me to deal with these areas if I am to move forward as a successful believer.

Excess food is not what I am talking about alone. I mean it in terms of the constant desire for provision way above what is needed for living, wether it be money, entertainment, clothing, junk food etc.

Is this something as christians that should be high on our priority list of something to be mindful of and overcome?

If we are idolising food or other things as a focus is it a type of living in sin? Personally I think it probably is and may as bad as any other living in sin to God.

what do you guys feel about this?

turned around · Mar 8, 2014

Hi,
Paul in 1 Corinthians 10:7, and in Ephesians 5:5 speaks on idolatry. In Corinthians he uses the children of Israel[bless and do not curse]for a example. He is pointed that we should not be like them. They sat down to eat, and drink, and rose up to play. This church was corrected by the apostle in different areas. True idolatry seems to have something to do with making a image. We are under grace now, and not the law. But he does address the subject. I know for sure that the SPIRIT will not lead us into sin.

In Ephesians the apostle Paul states idolatry can block our inheritance in Christ's kingdom. This is a important subject. The first thing I would do is make sure the Holy Spirit is prompting you to look at this matter. I believe a religious spirit can influence believers in these areas, and turn it legalistic. So test the spirit. The Holy Spirit will not condemn, but aid you if this is a issue.

Paul states in 1 Timothy 4:4-5 we are free to eat what we want. In Philippians 4:5 he speaks on using moderation. I see the matter of conscience in this. Remember the Spirit convicts the believer of righteousness. He may be leading you through a word washing, and sanctification process.

Grace to you.

DiscipleHeLovesToo · Mar 8, 2014

ChrisLeishy said:
I know it is an old term to use but I have really felt God want me to deal with these areas if I am to move forward as a successful believer.

Excess food is not what I am talking about alone. I mean it in terms of the constant desire for provision way above what is needed for living, wether it be money, entertainment, clothing, junk food etc.

Is this something as christians that should be high on our priority list of something to be mindful of and overcome?

If we are idolising food or other things as a focus is it a type of living in sin? Personally I think it probably is and may as bad as any other living in sin to God.

what do you guys feel about this?

your focus is on performance rather than fellowship with God based exclusively on faith in His grace and independent of your own performance, good or bad. focus on hearing and following His situaltional leading as confirmed by scripture that the Holy Spirit brings to your mind (and focus on learning about scripture from Him so that He can bring it up in your mind), and as you follow His leading in each situation more effectively, your performance will improve - effortlessly. you must face the fact that no one in a flesh body is capable of applying the multitude of God's laws correctly in any given situation - we must be led by God, not our own intellect and understanding.

Rom 8:13-14
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the <leading of the> Spirit <not through your own intellect and understanding> do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me

this should help:

The War Is Over - Audio Teaching - Andrew Wommack Ministries

Spirit Led Life | Moore Life Ministries - Branson, MO

Spirit Led Life 2 | Moore Life Ministries - Branson, MO

Quasicentennial · Mar 8, 2014

Gluttony is seeking abundance, such as Mcdonalds hamburgers, having more than one sexual partner even if it means secretly or openly that may cause family violence, as in the case with the film "Precious" the name of a strong-hearted abused Afro-American 16-year old girl whose life-saving fantasies keep her positive throughout her life struggles:.
The opposite of gluttony is definitely moderation as in food/fluid choices, especially when focusing on salt and sugar content of each food item, whether it is a vegetable or fruit, meat or dairy such as cheese or chicken eggs, fruit juice or softdrink.:
Unfortunately, our minds need to operate on a genius level to know precisely what exactly and how much of that chosen item you are consuming daily. That's why its essential to accept Jesus knowing that he knows all the secrets of Creation in that it has puzzled science for the past several centuries:.
Jesus has life-transforming and planet-transforming supernatural powers that even Satan, besides us as believers of Christ, I believe, is sarcastically waiting patiently thinking: "Give me a break" as if Jesus is seen as a future-coming, 'what a load of rubbish' clown:.
Our faithless Satan will definitely get a break as he will become permanently evicted from our Earth and transferred to Never Never Land, wherever that is so that he won't mess with our lives forever .;'*';. Rev 21:2
:liturgy:

Peripatetic · Mar 8, 2014

Quasicentennial said:
Gluttony is seeking abundance

Right... seeking abundance of pleasure. Most of life's little pleasures are OK in moderation (often with some benefits): TV, coffee, sugary foods, alcohol, books, music, etc. It becomes gluttony when we indulge too much in individual pleasures or across all of them. Our bodies have ways of warning us, and we should heed them: weight gain from eating, drunkenness from alcohol, headaches from reading/listening to music, heartburn or sleeplessness for caffeine, etc. Another warning sign is empty, guilty, or depressed feelings afterwards, which can be a sign of too much dopamine activity in the brain from overactive pleasure seeking.

So yes, we should keep an eye out for gluttony in all that we do. It amazes me how we humans have the capacity to not only ignore the Holy Spirit and conscience, but our body's own warning signs. The good news is that when we keep it in balance, we have a great deal of freedom to enjoy the little joys that God gives us here on Earth!

ChrisLeishy · Mar 8, 2014

OK so the forum has a sense of humour. Soon as i checked the thread today it was so funny.

ChrisLeishy · Mar 8, 2014

DiscipleHeLovesToo said:
your focus is on performance rather than fellowship with God based exclusively on faith in His grace and independent of your own performance, good or bad. focus on hearing and following His situaltional leading as confirmed by scripture that the Holy Spirit brings to your mind (and focus on learning about scripture from Him so that He can bring it up in your mind), and as you follow His leading in each situation more effectively, your performance will improve - effortlessly. you must face the fact that no one in a flesh body is capable of applying the multitude of God's laws correctly in any given situation - we must be led by God, not our own intellect and understanding.

Rom 8:13-14
(13) For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the <leading of the> Spirit <not through your own intellect and understanding> do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
(14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me

Thanks for that. I have in the past had more luck getting closer to god by giving up the things i felt requested of me to surrender. Not that I am very successful or good at it.

Shattered-Reflections · Mar 8, 2014

As others have already pointed out, it is crucial to understand where you stand in Christ's grace. That you're salvation isn't dependent on performance. If you ever feel hopeless or despair you need to focus on Him.

You don't sound worry about your salvation though, but you have a desire for greater closeness with God. Greed is something Jesus warns us about a lot, so I think it should be a high propriety because something is wrong in our spiritual life if we have greed or must-haves in our life.

I believe identifying idols in your life is part of the process of becoming closer with God. After all we are suppose to confess sin and repent. An idol is a form of spiritual adultery, that something good in our life has become an "over-desire". Something aside from God has charmed us, seduced us, and has become our lover; giving us meaning, comfort, happiness, and identity instead of God. It's not that food, financial security, or entertainment is bad in itself, but an over-desire for these things will eventually lead to lying, rage, slander, greed, selfish ambition, envy, violence, sexual immorality, etc

Both over-eating and under-eating can be an over-desire. One is finding comfort and pleasure in food and the other is finding self worth and beauty. Now, there can be medical complication relating to weight gain or loss, so honestly people shouldn't judge others. And for biological reasons, repossessing control over your diet is easier said than done. Plus weight loss you have to be dedicated to exercise not just eat less. But if you feel that what you're eating isn't healthy for your or you're eating too much/little, then investigate your own heart and ask why that is? Why can't you go without? If it's not a big deal, if you're in control, then challenge yourself to change/stop for a few months and see if you're really in control.

Same with other stuff. Go without entertainment or limit it, use the money that you'd spend on yourself for luxury and give it to someone who needs it. Look at your closet, how many oufits do you have? 20, 50, 100, lost count? If you have more 50 outfits see if you can't give away 20 (you still have 1 outfit for each day of the month). If 100, give away 50. If you've lost count, if it can't fit neatly into your closet give it away. Dose that fill you with dreadful anxiety? Dose that sound crazy? Can you only part with a few items or none? Then you probably put too much value into "stuff" and there's a deeper spiritual heart issue going on.

Now the flip side of this, if you can't let go of something good some part of that is discipline. But will powering your way through life is exhausting. The best way to nullify an over-desire for something, is to replace it with something greater. Something that will give you greater comfort, greater beauty, greater security, greater joy, greater wealth and that something is Christ. So becoming closer to God is simply knowing and understanding His love and grace deeper and more profoundly than before, because that will bring the idols to light and also push them out.

ChrisLeishy · Mar 9, 2014

Shattered-Reflections said:
As others have already pointed out, it is crucial to understand where you stand in Christ's grace. That you're salvation isn't dependent on performance. If you ever feel hopeless or despair you need to focus on Him.

You don't sound worry about your salvation though, but you have a desire for greater closeness with God. Greed is something Jesus warns us about a lot, so I think it should be a high propriety because something is wrong in our spiritual life if we have greed or must-haves in our life.

I believe identifying idols in your life is part of the process of becoming closer with God. After all we are suppose to confess sin and repent. An idol is a form of spiritual adultery, that something good in our life has become an "over-desire". Something aside from God has charmed us, seduced us, and has become our lover; giving us meaning, comfort, happiness, and identity instead of God. It's not that food, financial security, or entertainment is bad in itself, but an over-desire for these things will eventually lead to lying, rage, slander, greed, selfish ambition, envy, violence, sexual immorality, etc

Both over-eating and under-eating can be an over-desire. One is finding comfort and pleasure in food and the other is finding self worth and beauty. Now, there can be medical complication relating to weight gain or loss, so honestly people shouldn't judge others. And for biological reasons, repossessing control over your diet is easier said than done. Plus weight loss you have to be dedicated to exercise not just eat less. But if you feel that what you're eating isn't healthy for your or you're eating too much/little, then investigate your own heart and ask why that is? Why can't you go without? If it's not a big deal, if you're in control, then challenge yourself to change/stop for a few months and see if you're really in control.

thanks for your reply i think you and me are thinking along the same lines regarding whats important. I cant help but wonder why God puts so many requests for fasting in the bible and there are so many examples of giving up something to gain favour with God. I know you cant get any more saved by self suffering or practicing moderation but why does God recommend those things? I guess its a bit like dont overdo it on the alcohol recommendation too. It must do something beneficial.

Inkachu · Mar 10, 2014

There's a reason Jesus said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter Heaven. Notice, He didn't say it's impossible... but it's not easy. Wealth comes with a huge amount of responsibility, and can only be handled well by someone with maturity and self control. In most cases, it's much, much easier to "downsize" our lives, and have less material "stuff", in order to maintain a proper attitude towards money and possessions, and a healthy dose of reliance on God rather than ourselves.

I grew up poor, and spent a big portion of my young adult years poor, as a single mother. In 2012, I met a brilliant man and got married. He makes an excellent income. My living standard has definitely changed. He has ambitions to start his own business, which - if successful - would put us up even higher on the income ladder. He could tell you that, as idyllic as this sounds, it's actually been really difficult for me, since I'm used to saving pennies, never buying anything I don't absolutely need, and having almost nothing. And while the thought of having money to do things I've never been able to do before is pretty appealing, I've told both God and my husband, that the moment I start to think "I could never go back to being poor..." is the moment I need to stop and re-evaluate our lives. I never want to become so dependent or fixated on money or possessions, that I lose sight of who I am as God's daughter. And that is someone who, like Paul, would be content to be poor again, if it came down to it.

ChrisLeishy · Mar 11, 2014

Inkachu said:
There's a reason Jesus said it's easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter Heaven. Notice, He didn't say it's impossible... but it's not easy. Wealth comes with a huge amount of responsibility, and can only be handled well by someone with maturity and self control. In most cases, it's much, much easier to "downsize" our lives, and have less material "stuff", in order to maintain a proper attitude towards money and possessions, and a healthy dose of reliance on God rather than ourselves.

I grew up poor, and spent a big portion of my young adult years poor, as a single mother. In 2012, I met a brilliant man and got married. He makes an excellent income. My living standard has definitely changed. He has ambitions to start his own business, which - if successful - would put us up even higher on the income ladder. He could tell you that, as idyllic as this sounds, it's actually been really difficult for me, since I'm used to saving pennies, never buying anything I don't absolutely need, and having almost nothing. And while the thought of having money to do things I've never been able to do before is pretty appealing, I've told both God and my husband, that the moment I start to think "I could never go back to being poor..." is the moment I need to stop and re-evaluate our lives. I never want to become so dependent or fixated on money or possessions, that I lose sight of who I am as God's daughter. And that is someone who, like Paul, would be content to be poor again, if it came down to it.

I like your attitude a lot.

Once you have seen how it is to do without it makes you begin to wonder if you are using twice as many natural resources to exist by your excessive living than you need then maybe you are inadvertently somewhere causing someone else to live in poverty or without sufficient for bare minimum. Gods recommendation to avoid excess would see a bit more even playing field worldwide maybe with regard to abundance?

boogalaboogala · Mar 11, 2014

ChrisLeishy said:
I know it is an old term to use but I have really felt God want me to deal with these areas if I am to move forward as a successful believer.

Excess food is not what I am talking about alone. I mean it in terms of the constant desire for provision way above what is needed for living, wether it be money, entertainment, clothing, junk food etc.

Is this something as christians that should be high on our priority list of something to be mindful of and overcome?

If we are idolising food or other things as a focus is it a type of living in sin? Personally I think it probably is and may as bad as any other living in sin to God.

what do you guys feel about this?

so, where is your heart? i mean, the pharisees pretty much kept all of the law, and yet they were called a brood of vipers, by Jesus..
if the Lord is priority #1 in your life.. then everything else is secondary anyway.. try saying that as many times as it takes to register.. if the Lord is number 1 in your life(in your heart), then everything else is secondary..
there is no reason i can't have God as #1 in my heart and life, if i am wearing clothing from the salvation army thrift store, or wearing armani..
have you ever asked the waiter for a clean glass because the outside of the one you were using was not clean.. i never have.. infact, i only look at the inside.. and so does God...
don't let misinterpretation of the scriptures steal your joy...
we were made with a natural, inner desire for things that taste great.. i am not trying to be smart here. but, wasn't it God that taught us that only the choicest of meat were fitting for His consumption.. with God it was for sacrificial means.. but, we also only want the choicest meat.. we like nice things.. God wants us to like nice things.. i mean, lets just take a look at His glorious city.. the new jerusalem.. it is going to have streets of gold.. huge pearls at the gates, and the list just goes on and on... this is God's inspired word, put in a way, that will appeal to our senses.. you and me.. he is basically saying this to us.. if it didn't matter, then He would take the time to describe it..
so, no, it certainly is not being a glutton to like, want and enjoy nice things.. it is actually human..
blessings friend.. and remember. if God is first in your heart. then everything else is second..

ChrisLeishy · Mar 12, 2014

boogalaboogala said:
so, where is your heart? i mean, the pharisees pretty much kept all of the law, and yet they were called a brood of vipers, by Jesus..
if the Lord is priority #1 in your life.. then everything else is secondary anyway.. try saying that as many times as it takes to register.. if the Lord is number 1 in your life(in your heart), then everything else is secondary..
there is no reason i can't have God as #1 in my heart and life, if i am wearing clothing from the salvation army thrift store, or wearing armani..
have you ever asked the waiter for a clean glass because the outside of the one you were using was not clean.. i never have.. infact, i only look at the inside.. and so does God...
don't let misinterpretation of the scriptures steal your joy...
we were made with a natural, inner desire for things that taste great.. i am not trying to be smart here. but, wasn't it God that taught us that only the choicest of meat were fitting for His consumption.. with God it was for sacrificial means.. but, we also only want the choicest meat.. we like nice things.. God wants us to like nice things.. i mean, lets just take a look at His glorious city.. the new jerusalem.. it is going to have streets of gold.. huge pearls at the gates, and the list just goes on and on... this is God's inspired word, put in a way, that will appeal to our senses.. you and me.. he is basically saying this to us.. if it didn't matter, then He would take the time to describe it..
so, no, it certainly is not being a glutton to like, want and enjoy nice things.. it is actually human..
blessings friend.. and remember. if God is first in your heart. then everything else is second..

I know what your saying about allowing nice things and i agree but the only thing i feel God pressuring me to is a life of sufficiency without eating or consuming in excess for my own good. The Apostle Paul warned about improper feasting practices by early christians.
1 cor 11
17In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing?

Ephesians 5:5

For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Its bundled in with the sex sins in this above verse (covetous)

1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.a 6You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

We might be saved by grace but it still isnt licence to live in luxurious excess at the expense of poor people in 3rd world countries! If anything we should let Armani go without and give the cost of the extra $550 pair of Jeans to charity and buy the $80 ones!

seeingeyes · Mar 12, 2014

ChrisLeishy said:
I know it is an old term to use but I have really felt God want me to deal with these areas if I am to move forward as a successful believer.

Excess food is not what I am talking about alone. I mean it in terms of the constant desire for provision way above what is needed for living, wether it be money, entertainment, clothing, junk food etc.

Is this something as christians that should be high on our priority list of something to be mindful of and overcome?

If we are idolising food or other things as a focus is it a type of living in sin? Personally I think it probably is and may as bad as any other living in sin to God.

what do you guys feel about this?

What do you think needs to change?

boogalaboogala · Mar 12, 2014

ChrisLeishy said:
I know what your saying about allowing nice things and i agree but the only thing i feel God pressuring me to is a life of sufficiency without eating or consuming in excess for my own good. The Apostle Paul warned about improper feasting practices by early christians.
1 cor 11
17In the following directives I have no praise for you, for your meetings do more harm than good. 18In the first place, I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions among you, and to some extent I believe it. 19No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you have God’s approval. 20So then, when you come together, it is not the Lord’s Supper you eat, 21for when you are eating, some of you go ahead with your own private suppers. As a result, one person remains hungry and another gets drunk. 22Don’t you have homes to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing?

Ephesians 5:5

For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Its bundled in with the sex sins in this above verse (covetous)

1Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. 2Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. 3Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. 4Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. 5You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.a 6You have condemned and murdered the innocent one, who was not opposing you.

We might be saved by grace but it still isnt licence to live in luxurious excess at the expense of poor people in 3rd world countries! If anything we should let Armani go without and give the cost of the extra $550 pair of Jeans to charity and buy the $80 ones!

i don't get it.. i mean, i get the eating while others go without.. and i get the being controlled by an addiction... but, i think the luxury part is nothing to do with the likes of the working man.. that i believe is aimed toward the rich.. like movie, and sports stars.. business men that put work before their God and family.. do i think we need a steak rather than a hamburger..; nope.. but, i rejoice at the look and sound of anyone enjoying a good meal.. and i would like to think the same of the one that provided that meal..
i think you are trying to put the cart before the wheel here..
you are so perplexed about a legalistic issue.. and you are missing God's grace..
friend, if you think that this will send you to hell. well, then you were already on your way there before this ever came up.. so, i recommend focusing on our Lord's grace, and forget everything else.. but, that is your deal.. i am going to enjoy all of the freedoms that come along with not being in bondage to the law.. i am completely free in Christ..
blessings

Inkachu · Mar 12, 2014

ChrisLeishy said:
I like your attitude a lot.

Once you have seen how it is to do without it makes you begin to wonder if you are using twice as many natural resources to exist by your excessive living than you need then maybe you are inadvertently somewhere causing someone else to live in poverty or without sufficient for bare minimum. Gods recommendation to avoid excess would see a bit more even playing field worldwide maybe with regard to abundance?

I'm not really sure where you're going with that line of thought, but it sounds a bit communistic to me lol. I don't think one person's wealth necessarily means that another person is being deprived. I also don't see in Scripture where God says to "avoid excess". There is no command against being wealthy, only that such people will be held accountable for how they handle their wealth, and that they need to remain generous and not become stingy with what they have. It's not that wealth is named as bad or evil or something to be purposefully avoided, only that it should be handled with great care and wisdom.

ChrisLeishy · Mar 12, 2014

seeingeyes said:
What do you think needs to change?

When I or we earn more money than we need for bills or living expenses which is not uncommon, the temptation is to blow it on fun things or let it accumulate in a bank is great and every time you do it it gets more boring.

The thing is my play money left over from living expenses of living could help a refugee or go towards christian ministry and the less I spend on indulging or over indulging myself regularly... Thats what i believe the lord wants me to do, live less for myself. Jesus way seems to be more others focused and giving of your talents.

Inkachu · Mar 12, 2014

True, but you need to realize that there is a huge array of choices between "blowing money on fun things" and "giving it all away to a charity". You could invest it. You could start a business. You could put your kids through college.

Every person is responsible for their own finances, gifts, and blessings. We can't speak for other people or tell them what to do with THEIR money. Just because someone makes more money than you do, doesn't mean they're blowing it on frivolities or hoarding it greedily in a bank account. Be content with what you have and where God has put you, and leave it at that.

As someone once wisely said, as long as you're comparing, you will never have joy.

seeingeyes · Mar 13, 2014

ChrisLeishy said:
When I or we earn more money than we need for bills or living expenses which is not uncommon, the temptation is to blow it on fun things or let it accumulate in a bank is great and every time you do it it gets more boring.

The thing is my play money left over from living expenses of living could help a refugee or go towards christian ministry and the less I spend on indulging or over indulging myself regularly... Thats what i believe the lord wants me to do, live less for myself. Jesus way seems to be more others focused and giving of your talents.

So there's your answer.

Do you have a reputable charity/ministry in mind?

Jupiter Drops · Mar 13, 2014

Everything is a fuel given to you by God so that you may do His will in whatever way possible.
Be thankful for what you are given every single blessed day.

Gluttony and greed issue. Is living in gluttony living in sin?

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