Who was the first apostle who announced the good news?

janwoG

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Yeoshua revealed to the Samaritan women that He is indeed the Messiah. Then she announced the good news to the Samaritans. The second apostle was Myriam of Magdala who was the first witness of the resurrection of our Messiah who Yeoshua has commissioned to announce it to His other disciples. When Yah had cursed Eve that she has to live under the authority of her husband. It is well known that the sacrifice of our only Rabbi Yeoshua has reversed all curses. Therefore, I consider the interdiction of women to teach about the truth to males was a compromise of the early and less early churches towards patriarchate. Now in our Messianic time, this attitude is obsolete so far as one understands our Rabbi’s teaching. In Yeoshua, there is neither women nor man, but just a new human being!
 

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Yeoshua revealed to the Samaritan women that He is indeed the Messiah. Then she announced the good news to the Samaritans. The second apostle was Myriam of Magdala who was the first witness of the resurrection of our Messiah who Yeoshua has commissioned to announce it to His other disciples. When Yah had cursed Eve that she has to live under the authority of her husband. It is well known that the sacrifice of our only Rabbi Yeoshua has reversed all curses. Therefore, I consider the interdiction of women to teach about the truth to males was a compromise of the early and less early churches towards patriarchate. Now in our Messianic time, this attitude is obsolete so far as one understands our Rabbi’s teaching. In Yeoshua, there is neither women nor man, but just a new human being!

Sorry, but there are still women and men around. Still Jew and gentile too. The ground still refuses to put forth food without effort. Ask a woman who has given birth if it hurt and see if that part of the curse is gone.

Anyone can be saved. There is no special consideration for male or female, Jew or gentile. That does not negate gender-specific roles, as Paul taught. Women are not to have authority over men. Even today.
 
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Avodat

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Yeoshua revealed to the Samaritan women that He is indeed the Messiah. Then she announced the good news to the Samaritans. The second apostle was Myriam of Magdala who was the first witness of the resurrection of our Messiah who Yeoshua has commissioned to announce it to His other disciples. When Yah had cursed Eve that she has to live under the authority of her husband. It is well known that the sacrifice of our only Rabbi Yeoshua has reversed all curses. Therefore, I consider the interdiction of women to teach about the truth to males was a compromise of the early and less early churches towards patriarchate. Now in our Messianic time, this attitude is obsolete so far as one understands our Rabbi’s teaching. In Yeoshua, there is neither women nor man, but just a new human being!


Eve was not cursed - only the earth was cursed. Eve received the punishment for her sin and Adam had to work on the earth that was cursed, with much toil and pain; they were punished, not cursed, by G_d. As I look around I see plenty of women - they have are the ones with funny shaped jumpers and jackets! They still have very painful times in child-birth and men still struggle to work with the cursed earth that longs for its redemption. There are still Greeks and Jews and slaves and free in this world - he didn't mean that there would be none of those people in existence, obviously.
 
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Lulav

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I beg to differ. Woman for generations have been calling a certain time of the month for them 'the curse'. ;)

Yes, the ground was cursed and Adam (mankind) had to deal with that curse by working hard for their food. It was no longer as simple as a walk through the garden to see what looked good on the tree. I also think this goes deeper and tells us about the loss of immortality.

Before they disobeyed they were immortal. They didn't have to eat. It was only a pleasure then, now it was something they had to do, everyday (good to be reminded everyday of this too) in order to stay alive. Before they had the option of eating or not eating, either way they would remain alive.
 
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Avodat

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I beg to differ. Woman for generations have been calling a certain time of the month for them 'the curse'. ;)

Yes, the ground was cursed and Adam (mankind) had to deal with that curse by working hard for their food. It was no longer as simple as a walk through the garden to see what looked good on the tree. I also think this goes deeper and tells us about the loss of immortality.

Before they disobeyed they were immortal. They didn't have to eat. It was only a pleasure then, now it was something they had to do, everyday (good to be reminded everyday of this too) in order to stay alive. Before they had the option of eating or not eating, either way they would remain alive.

I'm sure that is how it must feel but the simple fact remains that it is the earth that was cursed, not humankind.

We must not confuse curse with punishment; no matter that a part of the human race use that particular word, it doesn't impute the act back into the creation accounts. :)
 
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Lulav

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Yeoshua revealed to the Samaritan women that He is indeed the Messiah. Then she announced the good news to the Samaritans. The second apostle was Myriam of Magdala who was the first witness of the resurrection of our Messiah who Yeoshua has commissioned to announce it to His other disciples. When Yah had cursed Eve that she has to live under the authority of her husband. It is well known that the sacrifice of our only Rabbi Yeoshua has reversed all curses. Therefore, I consider the interdiction of women to teach about the truth to males was a compromise of the early and less early churches towards patriarchate. Now in our Messianic time, this attitude is obsolete so far as one understands our Rabbi’s teaching. In Yeoshua, there is neither women nor man, but just a new human being!
I think what you are going at is something from the Dan Brown novels, that takes the 'lost books of the bible' into account and believe that Mary Magdalene was the leader of the group.

Jeremiah 31:21 is an interesting verse to study. Here are some variations on it.

How long will you hide, O backsliding daughter? For the Lord has created something new on the earth, a woman shall go after a man.

the L-RD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.
 
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AbbaLove

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God Himself First Issued The Good News Message. From Him, Adam Was The First Human To pass on The Promise.
However, Adam was not a faithful follower. The implication in Hebrews 3:1-2 is that the witness of an Apostle is a faithful follower. Enoch was a faithful follower, but no covenant yet existed. So, is the term Apostle only relevant to a covenant? Wouldn't Elohim's covenant with Abraham qualify him as an Apostle (faithful follower).

One definition of an Apostle is a faithful follower of a Covenant, so wouldn't Moshe be the first Apostle of the BCE Covenant (law/commandments), and Y'shua the first Apostle of the CE Covenant?


Therefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, Christ Jesus, who was faithful to Him who appointed Him, as Moses also was faithful in all His house.
(Hebrews 3:1-2 NKJV)

So, that does seem to suggest that any faithful follower of the CE covenant is an Apostle. HOWEVER, the religious dispute for the past 2000 years is man's definition of who is a true CE Apostle ("Faithful Follower")?

What's Your Take?​

 
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Lulav

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Apostle means someone sent out on a specific mission. It comes from the root Greek word ajpostevllw, 'Apostolos' which means: to send off, to order (one) to go to a place appointed.

The meaning of the word 'sent' here translated is also that which is translated as Apostle.


16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
 
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Lulav

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However, Adam was not a faithful follower. The implication in Hebrews 3:1-2 is that the witness of an Apostle is a faithful follower. Enoch was a faithful follower, but no covenant yet existed. So, is the term Apostle only relevant to a covenant? Wouldn't Elohim's covenant with Abraham qualify him as an Apostle (faithful follower).

One definition of an Apostle is a faithful follower of a Covenant, so wouldn't Moshe be the first Apostle of the BCE Covenant (law/commandments), and Y'shua the first Apostle of the CE Covenant?




So, that does seem to suggest that any faithful follower of the CE covenant is an Apostle. HOWEVER, the religious dispute for the past 2000 years is man's definition of who is a true CE Apostle ("Faithful Follower")?

What's Your Take?​


My take, FWIW, is that you are mixing up the terms Apostle with Disciple.
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Yeoshua revealed to the Samaritan women that He is indeed the Messiah. Then she announced the good news to the Samaritans. The second apostle was Myriam of Magdala who was the first witness of the resurrection of our Messiah who Yeoshua has commissioned to announce it to His other disciples. When Yah had cursed Eve that she has to live under the authority of her husband. It is well known that the sacrifice of our only Rabbi Yeoshua has reversed all curses. Therefore, I consider the interdiction of women to teach about the truth to males was a compromise of the early and less early churches towards patriarchate. Now in our Messianic time, this attitude is obsolete so far as one understands our Rabbi’s teaching. In Yeoshua, there is neither women nor man, but just a new human being!

If I may say..

Although there have always been female leaders within Israel - from judges to prophets ( more shared in the thread entitled Women rabbis and #15 ), I'd argue that it was not the Samaritan woman who proclaimed the Gospel of the Messiah first - but rather, it was Anna the Prophetess who first beheld the Messiah when he was a child.


Luke 2:37
34 Then Simeon blessed them and said to Mary, his mother: “This child is destined to cause the falling and rising of many in Israel, and to be a sign that will be spoken against, 35 so that the thoughts of many hearts will be revealed. And a sword will pierce your own soul too.”

36 There was also a prophet, Anna, the daughter of Penuel, of the tribe of Asher. She was very old; she had lived with her husband seven years after her marriage, 37 and then was a widow until she was eighty-four.[e] She never left the temple but worshiped night and day, fasting and praying. 38 Coming up to them at that very moment, she gave thanks to God and spoke about the child to all who were looking forward to the redemption of Jerusalem.

39 When Joseph and Mary had done everything required by the Law of the Lord, they returned to Galilee to their own town of Nazareth. 40 And the child grew and became strong; he was filled with wisdom, and the grace of God was on him.
 
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mishkan

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However, Adam was not a faithful follower. The implication in Hebrews 3:1-2 is that the witness of an Apostle is a faithful follower. Enoch was a faithful follower, but no covenant yet existed. So, is the term Apostle only relevant to a covenant? Wouldn't Elohim's covenant with Abraham qualify him as an Apostle (faithful follower).

One definition of an Apostle is a faithful follower of a Covenant, so wouldn't Moshe be the first Apostle of the BCE Covenant (law/commandments), and Y'shua the first Apostle of the CE Covenant?




So, that does seem to suggest that any faithful follower of the CE covenant is an Apostle. HOWEVER, the religious dispute for the past 2000 years is man's definition of who is a true CE Apostle ("Faithful Follower")?

What's Your Take?​


Ummm... I'm trying to think of any context where "apostolos" means "faithful follower". That just isn't the definition of the word. It, and its Hebrew equivalent, "sh'liach", both mean, "sent one". David Stern uses the translation "emissary". I like to use "ambassador", "representative", or "delegate".

One can be a faithful ambassador by accurately representing the interests and views of the one who sent him. The word has nothing to do with following anybody/anything. That's an entirely different word family, "talmid" in Hebrew, or "mathetes" in Greek.

Now, there is a distinction to be made in usages of the term. "THE Sent Ones" refers to a technical office that has only been held by 14 people in all of history. On the other hand, each and every believer is expected to learn Yeshua's goals and interests, and then go forth as his representative--as agents acting on behalf of Messiah. In that very loose sense, we can say that all of us are "ambassadors for Mashiach".

The question is, do we faithfully represent his interests to those around us?
 
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AbbaLove

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Gxg (G²);65104973 said:
I'd argue that it was not the Samaritan woman who proclaimed the Gospel of the Messiah first - but rather, it was Anna the Prophetess who first beheld the Messiah when he was a child.
Who was the first apostle who announced the good news?
Borrowing a page from Lulav - ;) - You are mixing up the terms Apostle with Prophetess.
My take, FWIW, is that you are mixing up the terms Apostle with Disciple.
Still not sure the best defense against Lulav's most amazingly brilliant Ruy opening.

Whether to use a modified Morphy or perhaps a Sicilian defense is a tossup. Perhaps a hanging modifier or a dangling participle - ;) - "discipling an Apostle"

 
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Apostle means someone sent out on a specific mission. It comes from the root Greek word ajpostevllw, 'Apostolos' which means: to send off, to order (one) to go to a place appointed.

The meaning of the word 'sent' here translated is also that which is translated as Apostle.


16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.

What does apollonian or apostasy mean? The both begin with (apo.)
 
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Gxg (G²)

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Borrowing a page from Lulav - ;) - You are mixing up the terms Apostle with Prophetess.
A little note - the use of the term "Apostle" with Prophetess is already off base seeing that the Samaritan Woman was never called an Apostle anyhow:cool:

Moses a prophet. So was Deborah who was both Judge of Israel and prophetess - and Moses operated within the role of prophet in the same way that the Apostles would operate when they were in the role. Although Moses was a prophet ( Exodus 7:1-3 ), he was also the leader of an entire nation--and one wishing that there could have been more prophets like him (in the era he lived in), as seen in Numbers 11:26-30. He was also distinct in that he was not simply a prophet since the Lord made clear in Numbers 12:5-7 /Deuteronomy 34:9-11 that He chose to speak to Moses directly as one does with a friend....elevating Moses above the prophets when it came to how the Lord spoke to them. Moses made clear that prophets could arise amongst the people--but caution would be necessary since the true test of their faithfulness to the Lord would be seen in whether or not they pointed people back to Him ( Deuteronomy 13:1-3 /Deuteronomy 13 ).

And again, with prophets leading nations, the same goes for Deborah. To be tehnical, Abraham was really the first person deemed to be a prophet ( Genesis 20:6-8 ) and he was the leader within his household/patriarch, even though there was no real leadership matching him......and he was SENT via Genesis 12 on mission by the Lord to proclaim His way and go to the place the Lord showed Him.

Additionally, it seems that there were differing levels of prophets within the OT just as it was within the NT. I'm reminded of how Samuel was the Chief Prophet in his day as well as the last judge of Israel ( 1 Samuel 3:19-21 /1 Samuel 3, 1 Samuel 9:8-10 1 Samuel 9, 1 Samuel 9:18-20 , 1 Chronicles 26:27-29 , 1 Chronicles 29:28-30 )....and yet, there were other prophets who existed as well --traveling and prophesying to music ( 1 Samuel 10:4-6, 1 Samuel 10:9-11/ 1 Samuel 10 ). At that time, Samuel was the leader over that school of prophets ( 1 Samuel 19:19-21, 1 Samuel 19:23-24 , 1 Samuel 28:5-7 , 1 Chronicles 9:21-23 ) and gave guidance to the nation...but once the monarchy began, even he was subject to being second to the king in making decisions---good or bad. There were others apart from the head prophet, Samuel, who the Lord used to speak...whether that be Nathan the Prophet (who Samuel raised up in his place) or Gad the Seer (also called a prophet, 2 Samuel 24:10-12 /2 Samuel 24 ) who the Lord used to speak to David.

The same dynamics occurred with other prophets such as Elijah and Elijah and those within the school of the prophets ( 1 Kings 18:3-5 , 1 Kings 18:12-14 , 1 Kings 19:9-11, 2 Kings 2:4-6 ,2 Kings 2 2 Kings 4:1-3 , 2 Kings 6:1-3 / 2 Kings 6, 2 Kings 9:6-8, 2 Kings 17:12-14 )

Most prophets were raised up at a time when there was already leadership, like the king, and being a prophet didn't replace the established leadership. There was a lot of come-ye-out-from-among-them-ing with the prophets forming and leading a faithful subculture, the schools of the prophets

But many of the prophets could walk in leadership in the sense that if the Lord told the king/others to listen to His prophets and they didn't, the prophets could proclaim whatever judgement the Lord commanded and allowed--and they weren't powerless or in the position to be bullied. I'm always reminded of what occurred with Elisha when he called down a curse on forty-two of the youths who mocked him--with the curse coming to pass in the form of bears ( 2 Kings 2:23-25 /2 Kings 2 )...

So to have Anna the Prophetess proclaim what she did was also walking as an Apostle.

Again, as it is, Prophets were also seen as Apostles/sent ones since they did what they did being sent on mission for the Lord - regardless of location.

It wasn't as if one who was a Prophet wasn't automatically sent in the same way as an Apostle was sent. And to be an "Apostle" simply means "sent one" - this is already understood, some noted from before:
Gxg (G²);61568372 said:
When it comes to saying what the original criteria is for being an apostle, most will go to Acts 1:21-26 (KJV):
Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
The problem here is Acts 1 does not lay down this criterion for all future apostles. Paul, of course, would not meet this requirement..but Acts 9-10 show clearly that Paul was visited BY Jesus.

Regarding the replacement of Judas, it appears that there was a group of men who did indeed met this criterion, from which they selected Barsabas and Mathias. ...and thus, in many ways, Paul was an exception. In saying he was an exception, we also declare the requirements stated in Acts 1 null and void for future apostles. Paul did not accompany the original apostles from the baptism by John to the day He ascended into heaven. For some reason, however, many critics claim that this is the lone exception and thus, the Lord would not allow any others. Certainly, one is free to make such a claim, but the Bible contains no foundation for it.

All can usually agree that Paul is an exception...bu there were there other Apostles..

First, there was Barnabas. Acts 14:14 records,
"Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,"


There was also Apollos, mentioned in 1 Corinthians 4:6-9,
And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another…For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men.


Then, there was James, the brother of Jesus Christ, who was not one of the original Twelve (and there were two other apostles named James). In Galatians 1:19, Paul says, "But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother." And James helped in the leadership of the early church and had as much authority as the other apostles.

Additionally, there was also Silvanus and Timothy. In 1 Thessalonians, we find Paul, Silvanus, and Timotheus, writing to those in Thessalonica:
Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ. We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers; (1 Thessalonians 1:1-2)

Later, they're referenced as Apostles...
But as we were allowed of God to be put in trust with the gospel, even so we speak; not as pleasing men, but God, which trieth our hearts. For neither at any time used we flattering words, as ye know, nor a cloke of covetousness; God is witness: Nor of men sought we glory, neither of you, nor yet of others, when we might have been burdensome, as the apostles of Christ. (1 Thessalonians 2:4-6)


There are two others that could be considered apostles, as in Romans 16:16-17 Paul praises a woman named Junia as "outstanding among the apostles." The language issue/translation is mainly why there's debate, but there are many academics who've been of the mindset that having a female translation was the correct one ....and with that one, it always seems to be something that gets ALOT of people upset--for many cannot handle the idea that women were actually ministers of the Gospel just as the male apostles were. For more info, one can go here to the thread entitled Women rabbis (which examines the many female leaders of high rank in the world of the apostles).

Also, some good resources to consider on the matter would be the following:

Using the New Testament text, it seems clear that there are a significant number of men with the title of "Apostle"----and logically, one must ask "Did all 19 or 21 see the resurrected Lord?"...to that question, we don't know. If they did, it is not recorded in our current New Testament or there to our knowledge. Suffice it to say, there were several other Apostles, in addition to the original 12. And while the original 11 (minus Judas) were chosen from men who had been with Christ throughout His ministry, it doesn't seem that this was never declared a universal requirement........
And one can be a prophet and be sent at the same time, just as others in the scriptures were noted to be both Prophets and Apostles simultaneously by the use of their gifts. Jesus was both Apostle and Prophet - and many have noted how Paul was also a PROPHET as well as an Apostle.

Thus, it's an artifical distinction with Prophet vs Apostle since the Apostles walked in the Prophetic/role of Prophets just as Yeshua did.
But at the end of the day, the real question is who testified first (since the focus is on women) on the GOOD news of the Messiah?
 
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AbbaLove

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In that very loose sense, we can say that all of us are "ambassadors for Mashiach".

The question is, do we faithfully represent His interests to those around us?
Some come off as being more zealous ambassadors for their religious presuppositions (pro&con) than authorized anointed ambassadors as faithful followers of Y’shua Mashiach.

Perhaps a more revealing post of one’s religious presuppositions would've been - “Who was the last Apostle Who Announced The Good News” or “Who Do You Consider One Of The Most Influential Apostles Of The 20th Century” (In that very loose sense,)

 
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