Miracles ...

~Anastasia~ · Feb 26, 2014

I've seen various discussion on this, and wondered if it would make a good focused discussion.

Do we see miracles today?

What qualifies as a miracle?

What is/are the purpose(s) of miracles?

If we don't see miracles, why not?

Is God still in the "miracle" business?

Any related comments? Let's just please be civil, since I'm sure there will be disagreements.

Thank you all.

cerette · Feb 26, 2014

Yes I believe there are still miracles happening, I've experienced some myself.
Shortly described I'd say miracles are positive happenings that don't have a natural explanation.

Tangible · Feb 26, 2014

I believe vast majority of miracles are hidden under the cover of simple, mundane activities. They are only recognizable through the eyes of faith.

~Anastasia~ · Feb 26, 2014

Thank you both ... I'm interested to see that you're both Lutherans and agree with miracles today.

That's encouraging.

I had not realized, but for some reason I had inferred that might not be the case.

My apologies for thinking wrongly.

My own main background having been Baptist at one point, the particular church I went to vehemently denied miracles of any kind. I don't think all Baptists believe that way though.

I don't anymore. But I guess what I think about miracles depends on how one would define a miracle.

I certainly don't see God as any less able than He ever was. That part I don't need to qualify in any way.

Kristos · Feb 26, 2014

I believe that human life is a miracle and that happens everyday

~Anastasia~ · Feb 26, 2014

Kristos said:
I believe that human life is a miracle and that happens everyday

If you think about it, I suppose the world being held together and all the natural processes are miracles, as is life in all it's variety.

Tangible · Feb 26, 2014

Kylissa, at the most basic level of Lutheran theology we confess that it is miraculous when God breaks into creation to act, whether it be in grand fashion as in the Incarnation, public miracles, impossible healings or other unheard-of occurrences, or in the seemingly mundane, as in the true body and blood or Our Lord being given to us sinners under the forms of simple bread and wine, simple water and the faltering speech of a pastor through which God miraculously acts to bring a crying infant into his family, or in the simple words of scripture spoken by an ordinary and sinful man which miraculously kills our old man and brings eternal life and forgiveness of sins to the new.

It's all God's doing, and that is always miraculous.

~Anastasia~ · Feb 26, 2014

Tangible said:
Kylissa, at the most basic level of Lutheran theology we confess that it is miraculous when God breaks into creation to act, whether it be in grand fashion as in the Incarnation, public miracles, impossible healings or other unheard-of occurrences, or in the seemingly mundane, as in the true body and blood or Our Lord being given to us sinners under the forms of simple bread and wine, simple water and the faltering speech of a pastor through which God miraculously acts to bring a crying infant into his family, or in the simple words of scripture spoken by an ordinary and sinful man which miraculously kills our old man and brings eternal life and forgiveness of sins to the new.

It's all God's doing, and that is always miraculous.

Hmmmm, I see what you are saying, and I should have been able to put at least part of that together from what I have learned about Lutheranism. I guess it's just some points of view on other things that made me have a wrong impression.

I apologize for my error, and thank you for the correction.

ebia · Feb 26, 2014

cerette said:
Shortly described I'd say miracles are positive happenings that don't have a natural explanation.

Isn't that a rather modernist definition?

I'd prefer something more like "something wonderous that speaks of God's in-breaking Kingdom".

Knee V · Feb 26, 2014

I forget who this was exactly, I think it may have been St Herman of Alaska. Someone approached him and said, "I just witnessed a great miracle!" And then the saint was excited and asked what it was. The person told him about some spectacular thing he just saw, a healing perhaps. Then the saint's demeanor dropped and he said, disappointedly, "Oh. I thought you were going to tell me someone saw their sin."

Rhamiel · Feb 26, 2014

yes, there are still miracles today

I think they are less common now then in the time of the Early Church
we also see Jesus preforming relatively many exorcisms, and when we read about the lives of early Saints (like St. Thomas the Apostle and St. Nicholas of Myra) we read of pagan idols and pagan temples that were infested with demons and had supernatural powers
so the people of this time KNEW that these "gods" had power and needed to be shown that the Trinity is the true God and that the "gods" they had known before were just demons

over time, as more and more demons had been cast out and idols destroyed, the need of these type of signs became less and less

we still see miracles in order to help people who need it

read the lives of the saints and you will see that God has never stopped this
St. Padre Pio was given the markings of Christ, the Stigmata
many people have been healed in a remarkable fashion

cerette · Feb 26, 2014

Kylissa--a lot of Christians accuse us Lutherans of being "dead" and "dull" and what not, probably because we don't speak in tongues and the such at our services. Not saying you've said those things about us, just sayin' it doesn't come as a surprise to me that you'd think we'd deny miracles today..

But yeah, I've experienced miracles, both of the sort Tangible described, but also other miraculous things in my own personal life. God is good!

cerette · Feb 26, 2014

ebia said:
Isn't that a rather modernist definition?

I'd prefer something more like "something wonderous that speaks of God's in-breaking Kingdom".

Well, the "not natural explanation" = supernatural explanation = God

~Anastasia~ · Feb 26, 2014

I have witnessed what could be considered minor miracles.

I have heard of more miracles of a greater degree but have no way to verify them. When I first heard of such kinds of things, I used to want to see. I can't even say why. My faith in what God has demonstrated and done in me is undeniable, so it's not as though I should have needed more "proof" of God. Perhaps I was desiring proof of miracles. I'm not sure. I guess I stopped worrying about it years ago though.

I wonder if some desire to see miracles for the sake of "proving their faith"?

I wonder if God would allow miracles for that reason alone?

I know many believed in the NT because of miracles, and Jesus even said they could believe in Him only for the sake of the works. But it seems to me those were cases of authenticating persons (Jesus and the Apostles) using miracles. I'm not sure God would give miracles for that particular purpose now.

In fact, it might even be a reason to be suspicious, if one showed up performing mighty miracles, depending on what their claims were.

ebia · Feb 26, 2014

cerette said:
Well, the "not natural explanation" = supernatural explanation = God

As I said before...

christianmomof3 · Feb 26, 2014

If you want to see miracles, then you will see them.

cerette · Feb 26, 2014

Not all "miraculous" things come from God.
I think many are deceived, and Satan uses "miraculous" things to lure people into his gang.

Willie T · Feb 26, 2014

To paraphrase Henry Ford's famous statement: "If you believe you will see miracles, or if you believe you won't, you are correct."

~Anastasia~ · Feb 26, 2014

cerette said:
Kylissa--a lot of Christians accuse us Lutherans of being "dead" and "dull" and what not, probably because we don't speak in tongues and the such at our services. Not saying you've said those things about us, just sayin' it doesn't come as a surprise to me that you'd think we'd deny miracles today..

But yeah, I've experienced miracles, both of the sort Tangible described, but also other miraculous things in my own personal life. God is good!

I really am sorry, Cerette, that I made a wrong assumption. It wasn't about tongues. I prefer (if I can state a preference) that a church believe in tongues, but I also prefer that they not be allowed to interrupt the service. For myself, it is more of a private matter. I just don't really like for a church to teach that the Holy Spirit does nothing today, and likewise I prefer the church not teach distinctions between gifts that I see no reason for in Scripture. But as long as a church doesn't actively promote against gifts of the Holy Spirit, I can be ok with it.

It was more that I perceived the Lutheran church as being against something else, but it was something I had not yet had time to ask about, but it is on my list. I may have misunderstood another poster's point of view, or taken it to represent the church.

I do apologize. I really appreciate what I've leaned of the Lutheran church so far. Please don't take my misunderstanding as any disparagement.

I'm very glad to be wrong, as well.

cerette · Feb 26, 2014

Kylissa said:
I really am sorry, Cerette, that I made a wrong assumption. It wasn't about tongues. I prefer (if I can state a preference) that a church believe in tongues, but I also prefer that they not be allowed to interrupt the service. For myself, it is more of a private matter. I just don't really like for a church to teach that the Holy Spirit does nothing today, and likewise I prefer the church not teach distinctions between gifts that I see no reason for in Scripture. But as long as a church doesn't actively promote against gifts of the Holy Spirit, I can be ok with it.

It was more that I perceived the Lutheran church as being against something else, but it was something I had not yet had time to ask about, but it is on my list. I may have misunderstood another poster's point of view, or taken it to represent the church.

I do apologize. I really appreciate what I've leaned of the Lutheran church so far. Please don't take my misunderstanding as any disparagement.

I'm very glad to be wrong, as well.

No need to apologize my friend, I was not offended. I just thought I'd mention that I wasn't surprised either!
(This is off topic, but the Lutheran church does not teach that the Holy Spirit does nothing today, nor do we say it's impossible that someone has the gift of speaking in tongues today. It's just that we don't share the "pentecostal"-ish view of speaking in tongues.)
Now I am of course very curious about the thing you haven't yet asked about. "If you say A you must say B" so ask already...

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