Bizarre experience with Seventh Day Adventist

random person · Feb 18, 2014

I am leery of all churches that has modern prophets.

The word of God is complete. 2 Timothy 3:16-17

gideon123 · Feb 18, 2014

Not saying here that SDA are not caught up in their own version of dogma ... they could be really struggling as you say. But truthfully - so many mainline churches are fighting the same symptoms that we can't point the finger at just SDA. A heartfelt desire to seek a deeper truth is a good thing. But when that quest becomes an OBSESSION - we have lost the big picture.

Maintaining balance and love is one of the hardest things we will ever try to do in our journey with God.

blessings,
Gideon

Inkachu · Feb 18, 2014

gideon123 said:
One of our big problems in Christianity today is that Protestant doctrine was become like cereal on the Breakfast aisle at the supermarket. Do you want that church ... great because they've got raisins and their doctrine is "crunchy". But how about THAT church over there ... they use delicious whole grains and nuts which are good for your colon!! The Protestant church has been broken down into a "shoppers paradise" of doctrines. Just pick what you like and go with it, right??? But unless we as Christians really look at this with an honest eye and try to understand why this is deeply flawed - we cannot expect the world to take us so seriously.

Sorry that I don't have any firsthand experiences with the SDA church to contribute, but I just wanted to say that the above quoted post is sooooooooo true!!

to Gideon.

Barricade24 · Feb 18, 2014

I actually attend an SDA Church, but I don't consider myself a Seventh Day Adventist. I can tell you what I have experienced. Some SDAs can at times seem very legalistic about the Sabbath, but not all of them are like that. Some also prefer not to eat meat, again not all of them are like that, but to me, it seems that some can be a tiny bit legalistic over this issue. But there is no wrong in not eating meat, but I think it would be nice if they cleared that up a bit. I know they teach soul sleep, I personally have not studied this issue so I don't know if it is true or not.

Basically you will find some extremeists there, but you will probably find people like that in any Church. As far as Ellen White goes, I have no confirmed view on this matter. I will stick to the Bible all the same.

No offence intended to any SDAs out there, I am not trying to judge you in any way, I am only saying some of things I have experienced.

Shattered-Reflections · Feb 19, 2014

About 10 years ago I had a friend who was SDA and researched into their theology and prophet. I don't know if that counts as 2nd hand or 1st hand. My friend wasn't pushy or legalistic imo, but his church did require observing the Sabbath, dietary restrictions, and there did seem to be a heavy emphasis on the Holy Spirit. There was something odd about communion (I forgot now). They have heaven certificates and their prophet had visions and wrote a book. (to sum up)

My friend eventually left the church because of the lack of evidence of the Holy Spirit in himself (he was very distraught over this and I could not comfort him) and our discussions over the many fallacies I saw in their doctrine. If you want to know why I disagree with their theology that's another discussion.

Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that while you should seek good, sound theology and know what's in the Bible, ...no one is saved by perfect theology and laws. You just need to be careful of Christians who don't focus on Christ as much as they focus on the "stuff" they do or don't do. Because whether Spirit-filled charismatics or well studied Bible-thumpers both can lead you away from God and bring you into the grave of "religion". These are many warnings in the bible about false teachers, and these are people within the church. But you can only identify and protect yourself if you know the Bible and what Jesus and his apostles have been teaching.

1 Thessalonians 5:20-21
Do not scoff at prophecies, but test everything that is said. Hold on to what is good.

Acts 17:11
And the people of Berea were more open-minded than those in Thessalonica, and they listened eagerly to Pauls message. They searched the Scriptures day after day to see if Paul and Silas were teaching the truth.

You shouldn't dismiss what people say, but you should actively see if what they are saying is true.

Ephesians 4:11-15
Now these are the gifts Christ gave to the church: the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, and the pastors and teachers. Their responsibility is to equip Gods people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of Gods Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ.
Then we will no longer be immature like children. We wont be tossed and blown about by every wind of new teaching. We will not be influenced when people try to trick us with lies so clever they sound like the truth. Instead, we will speak the truth in love, growing in every way more and more like Christ, who is the head of his body, the church.

Having complete theology won't save you, but the more and deeper you understand the truth about Christ and his grace the less you'll be lead astray.

I'm not saying SDA aren't Christians, not at all, I think there are christians and in every church that declare Jesus as Lord, but in every church their are non-christians who claim they are Christians. And in every church there will be iffy strings of theology. Likewise churches are filled with broken people too, so no church is perfect and you have to give allowances. You just need to use your own discernment whether or not any specific church is Christ centered, Spirit filled, and has sound teaching.

I never let people pressure me, so I understand your feelings here. So if this particular church is making you feel uncomfortable by the restrictions placed. Study on the things that make you feel uncomfortable. It may be bad theology or it may be your own unyielding to biblical teachings because of past experience or preconceived notions.

gideon123 · Feb 20, 2014

"Honestly, I've come to the conclusion that while you should seek good, sound theology and know what's in the Bible, ...no one is saved by perfect theology and laws. You just need to be careful of Christians who don't focus on Christ as much as they focus on the "stuff" they do or don't do. "

that's well said.

I think your friend's journey was on the mark ... if the church was not really getting him to Christ and the Holy Spirit then it is time to go to a better place.

I'm not particularly defending the SDA here. They may have their share of problems. I have simply seen too many "mainline" churches who have their own issues. Honestly, I think it is difficult for any single pastor to have a perfectly balanced approach. So if churches stay as individual identities, which they often do, then it is inherent that our faith starts to take on a "bias". As an example, I know one Christian church that put a tremendous focus on having the Holy Spirit. But they got to the point where they believed no other church was a "true church" because they didn't really have the Holy Spirit. At that point they has thrown their faith under the bus - yet they were the last ones to be able to see that.

blessings,
Gideon

forGod1 · Feb 20, 2014

seashale76 said:
Ellen White had tons of prophecies, visions, and writings that Seventh Day Adventists still follow today. That's all I know.

Uhhh.. you gotta put quotations around prophecies and visions. She was a lunatic.

znr · Feb 20, 2014

Had I met this person here on CF it would have been a war zone; surely we would have clashed. Now because the two of us are pretty much forced now by our circumstance to work together we're having to, not so much work out our differences, but learn to live peacefully amongst our very big differences.

SDA is probably not where I should put down roots. I'll probably just continue to be a gypsy. But I've pretty much decided that in all denominations there are a mix of viewpoints that would cause me to react in fear or disgust. I have a few opinions of the SDA church but I've decided to eliminate pointing the finger. If God judged me the way I judge them I would be (CURSE WORD).

It's a good thing we did not meet here.

parsley · Feb 24, 2014

Staunch.
My experience with SDA's -- they were highly disciplined, ascetic about their faith. It matches up with the pressure you felt, as there can be a tone of self-righteousness or holding others to righteous and holy living.

I didn't hear anything unusual concerning doctrine, and tend to agree they are right about most of their rules -- but the fact that their rules are more corporately rigid can cause problems.

In any group that strives toward purity, you will find a higher set of expectations. A strict group will either compete with each other, or separate people into sheep and goats. They were fairly sensible and thoughtful to others.

I didn't feel pressure from the SDA's I knew, but it was like talking to someone who is always fasting. They can't do this, can't do that, that's fine, don't mind me. I understand that bc I'm a bit that way myself, but they were more vocal than I am about it.

The nudges of conviction were fine, and challenged me. But I couldn't fellowship in that environment for long.

Every experience in a different church brings more insight to your whole world view. You tried it, you saw how you reacted, you saw how people live out their faith differently. It might have even reinforced things within you that you hadn't found in other churches.

That helps develop your own faith walk -- remember, the temple is you. The church you choose is the house you build for God.

asiyreh · Feb 24, 2014

Hi Z,

I spent a period of time inside the SDA church. I was even a youth pastor. How to refute an SDA. Well... you could attempt to tell them that the possibility for the historicist interpretation of Revelation being true expired in 1844. And neither the mormon work around i.e. Christ did come, they've got "secret jesus" stored spiritually in their headquarters, or the SDA explanation which is to say that Jesus moved into another room in the heavenly sanctuary and that's what he really meant; holds much water upon close inspection.

I guess I began to eye the movement suspiciously after someone told me I was a damnable "coffee drinking" sinner. Oh yes I kid you not.

They like to rant about the Pope quite a bit but have their own infallible interpreter in a lady called Ellen White. Some of the fanatics published or attempted to publish a bible version that had a verse of the scripture followed by her "inspired interpretation," or often times "new revelation."

They've quite a decent health message for the world. If you want to live a long human life, you could do a lot worse than exploring some of their insights.

What else... amm there's often bitter battles about how much of the old covenant "real" Christians should keep. Despite being dedicated students of the bible, they seemed to have missed the whole Council of Jerusalem thing and the significance of the "NEW COVENANT." On the plus side they haven't quite taken to sacrificing doves yet which is always good.

What else... Ahh ok they think we Catholics are the harlot of babylon. And you protestants our are little children who will all eventually come back to momma harlot. BTW they don't think they're protestants. IMHO I can't see that happening anytime soon.

They're mostly KJOites, And Young earthers though there's been some movement on that recently. Of course these movers are Jesuit insiders and anybody swayed by their arguments are little children of the harlot too.

Hows that ?

znr · Feb 24, 2014

Some believe that anyone who celebrates sabbath on Sunday has taken the "mark of the beast." Whatever.

As far as their views toward the CC go - that's so obviously the pot calling the kettle black.

My experience with this person continues to be really bizarre and my friend is disaplaying some serious hypocrisy. It's all too flipping weird and I'm not simply paranoid, I know when things are not right, but I'm not holding up the whole SDA over one persons actions; that's a trap I refuse to get caught in.

I know all the usual things about SDA now. I have read that JW and Mormonism came from SDA, but haven't done any real research so that's just a rumor I need to investigate. If anyone knows anything about that I would appreciate being pointed in the right direction.

asiyreh said:
Hi Z,

I spent a period of time inside the SDA church. I was even a youth pastor. How to refute an SDA. Well... you could attempt to tell them that the possibility for the historicist interpretation of Revelation being true expired in 1844. And neither the mormon work around i.e. Christ did come, they've got "secret jesus" stored spiritually in their headquarters, or the SDA explanation which is to say that Jesus moved into another room in the heavenly sanctuary and that's what he really meant; holds much water upon close inspection.

I guess I began to eye the movement suspiciously after someone told me I was a damnable "coffee drinking" sinner. Oh yes I kid you not.

They like to rant about the Pope quite a bit but have their own infallible interpreter in a lady called Ellen White. Some of the fanatics published or attempted to publish a bible version that had a verse of the scripture followed by her "inspired interpretation," or often times "new revelation."

They've quite a decent health message for the world. If you want to live a long human life, you could do a lot worse than exploring some of their insights.

What else... amm there's often bitter battles about how much of the old covenant "real" Christians should keep. Despite being dedicated students of the bible, they seemed to have missed the whole Council of Jerusalem thing and the significance of the "NEW COVENANT." On the plus side they haven't quite taken to sacrificing doves yet which is always good.

What else... Ahh ok they think we Catholics are the harlot of babylon. And you protestants our are little children who will all eventually come back to momma harlot. BTW they don't think they're protestants. IMHO I can't see that happening anytime soon.

They're mostly KJOites, And Young earthers though there's been some movement on that recently. Of course these movers are Jesuit insiders and anybody swayed by their arguments are little children of the harlot too.

Hows that ?

asiyreh · Feb 24, 2014

The parent company of all these movements; though possibly not JWs, was an organisation called the Millerite Movement.
Do some research on that and you should find all the answers you need.

You know when Paul says - Works don't save...? and we spend all day long arguing about it.

Catholic say you need to do good works...
US Christians - saved by grace alone

Actually when Paul is talking about "works," there's some pretty good recent evidence to say, he meant the old testament laws.
For example - the Essenes refer in their writing to the Old testament laws as "Works."

Paul does however say that those that want to keep the Sabbath can do so for God. So whatever... it just the way they choose to put it across, (that it's a requirement) that's wrong imo.

DiscipleHeLovesToo · Feb 25, 2014

the way i see it is that while every Christian wants mercy and grace, we also tend to want a way to tell what's in other people's hearts by looking at them from the outside (versus leaving that up to God) - it's the influence of the flesh on each of us that makes us look for a visible sign of error in others. so the SDA's use the 'law of the Sabbath'; Baptists use the 'law of water baptism', Pentecostals use the 'law of tongues', Methodists use the 'law of repetition', etc. once you join yourself to a subdivision of Christianity, you inevitably adopt a standard of judging what's in someone else's heart - which is error since only God can see what's in the heart. a Christian who seeks the 'true Christian sub-group' and disqualifies all sub-groups is one that simply hasn't found that external standard of judgment that they feel comfortable with, and will likely start yet another subdivision in the body of Christ when they do...

rather than focusing on what's wrong with some Christian 'sub-group', we should focus on what's right; seeking to unite the Body of Christ through the core belief of salvation through faith in Jesus.

Mat 15:10-14
(10) And he called the multitude, and said unto them, Hear, and understand:
(11) Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.
(12) Then came his disciples, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the Pharisees were offended, after they heard this saying?
(13) But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
(14) Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

DiscipleHeLovesToo · Feb 25, 2014

hey; maybe i should start a denomination and call it 'disciples' - on second thought, that's been done...

LarryP2 · Mar 14, 2014

I grew up SDA. It is a destructive non-Christian cult. Their emphasis on the Sabbath is culturally, historically and Biblically indefensible, and the exact OPPOSITE of the covenant outlined in the New Testament.

SDA is in a no-man's land between Judaism and Christianity. They ignorantly elevate the Sabbath out of all context with the Mosaic legal scheme. The Jews have 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important. You keep none or you keep them all. This is what the Apostles and Jesus are talking about when they discuss the Mosaic law - 613 Commandments that are inseparable parts of a whole. The Torah absolutely bans Gentiles from keeping the Sabbath and can be enforced with the Death Penalty. There is NO distinction under the Mosaic law between "Moral" and "Ceremonial" law! TO KEEP THE MOSAIC LAW REQUIRES KEEPING ALL 613 COMMANDMENTS! THE TEN COMMANDMENTS ARE JUST 10 OUT OF 613.

The Council of Jerusalem once and for all determined that Gentile Christians should not follow the Mosaic Law, and that only the 7 Noahide laws applied. THOSE are the "moral laws" that the Apostles determined were applicable to Gentile Christians.

Sabbatarianissm is based on the absurd argument that Colossians 2:16-17 does not mean what it says.

SDAs and other Sabbatarians need to convert to either Christianity, and repent from their extreme posture of Judaistic arrogance. Or they need to convert to Judaism, build a Temple, start having animal sacrifices and rigorously keep all 613 Commandments.

Right now, they are neither Christian nor Jewish.

parsley · Mar 18, 2014

hey; maybe i should

..

Dis Ciple Helo Vestoo -- is still up for grabs

I was just reading an unrelated article mentioning the risks of eponymous companies. Make sure you still own legal rights to your own name, if your sect goes down in unquenchable flames.

Millerite Movement.

Fascinating rabbit trail.

613 Commandments that are inseparable parts of a whole.

Thanks for your insights from the inside.

The Torah absolutely bans Gentiles from keeping the Sabbath and can be enforced with the Death Penalty.

That sounds like the interpretation of SDA, about Judaism.

Exodus 12:49

there shall be one law for the native and for the alien who resides among you.

Exodus 20:10 (Deuteronomy 5:14)

The seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work - you ...or the alien resident in your towns.

Exodus 12:48
If an alien who resides with you wants to celebrate the passover to the Lord, all his males shall be circumcised; then he may draw near to celebrate it; he shall be regarded as a native of the land.

Leviticus 25:2

When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the LORD.

Tangent.. we don't need to pursue it.

Some believe that anyone who celebrates sabbath on Sunday has taken the "mark of the beast."

How I've heard it explained -- apparently they felt powerful groups had been working to make offensive changes like this, and it was not the individual worshipers who were in the wrong, but the source of the changes (back to their opinions on CC).

But we all know how people stir and distort, and make mountains out of molehills-- a teaching can easily inflate to unrealistic standards. Not saved if you chose to wear slacks. Fasting for a day is good, so fasting a year is better. Demons in the statues.

The more competitive and stringent a group is, the more fervently they reinforce concepts.

There is a point to recognizing each stage where Christian practices changed. Wherever authorities step in to manage the people, there is a tendency to use religion to accomplish financial and political gains. Or simply organizational needs, where teachings like submission are "highly encouraged."

So to say an anti-Christ movement was in play to distort the faith, well... yes, continually. But there is not one evil beast -- there are continual oppressors, dividers and unifiers, homogenizers, scammers, opportunists that work to distort the faith.

If a group keeps their focus on past offenses of one unbeatable foe, then people whack at windmills and are not open to facing new dangers.

znr · Mar 18, 2014

I straight up think SDA is cultish. There, I said it.

Please note the distinction between "a cult" and "is cultish" leaves a little room for reason. Not a lot, but some, for me anyway.

Knockout · Mar 18, 2014

Its a cult

znr · Mar 18, 2014

I'm very happy to have cut all ties. If I've been wrong or am thinking wrong then I trust the Lord to deal with me. But mostly I'm grateful to have learned so many valuable lessons so fast, and that it only cost me 8k.

parsley said:
..

Dis Ciple Helo Vestoo -- is still up for grabs

I was just reading an unrelated article mentioning the risks of eponymous companies. Make sure you still own legal rights to your own name, if your sect goes down in unquenchable flames.

Fascinating rabbit trail.

Thanks for your insights from the inside.

That sounds like the interpretation of SDA, about Judaism.

Exodus 12:49

there shall be one law for the native and for the alien who resides among you.

Exodus 20:10 (Deuteronomy 5:14)

The seventh day is a sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work - you ...or the alien resident in your towns.

Exodus 12:48
If an alien who resides with you wants to celebrate the passover to the Lord, all his males shall be circumcised; then he may draw near to celebrate it; he shall be regarded as a native of the land.

Leviticus 25:2

When you come into the land which I shall give you, then the land shall have a sabbath to the LORD.

Tangent.. we don't need to pursue it.

How I've heard it explained -- apparently they felt powerful groups had been working to make offensive changes like this, and it was not the individual worshipers who were in the wrong, but the source of the changes (back to their opinions on CC).

But we all know how people stir and distort, and make mountains out of molehills-- a teaching can easily inflate to unrealistic standards. Not saved if you chose to wear slacks. Fasting for a day is good, so fasting a year is better. Demons in the statues.

The more competitive and stringent a group is, the more fervently they reinforce concepts.

There is a point to recognizing each stage where Christian practices changed. Wherever authorities step in to manage the people, there is a tendency to use religion to accomplish financial and political gains. Or simply organizational needs, where teachings like submission are "highly encouraged."

So to say an anti-Christ movement was in play to distort the faith, well... yes, continually. But there is not one evil beast -- there are continual oppressors, dividers and unifiers, homogenizers, scammers, opportunists that work to distort the faith.

If a group keeps their focus on past offenses of one unbeatable foe, then people whack at windmills and are not open to facing new dangers.

parsley · Mar 19, 2014

Eek. Hoping you mean kilobytes.

Bizarre experience with Seventh Day Adventist

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