why did the animals have to die?

childofdust

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if God was judging mankind why did all of the animals on earth except for the ones on the ark also have to die? What did they do that they had to die?
Couldn't God have figured out a way to do in mankind without killing all the animals?

This question is really no different than the question - why was Joshua and the Israelites commanded to kill EVERYTHING when they took a city? What did animals and babies do to deserve slaughter?

The answer: nothing.

Most of the Old Testament does not operate under the conviction that someone (or some thing) is only held accountable for its own wrongs. It assumes - almost everywhere - that someone (or some thing) can suffer the consequences of someone (or some thing) else's wrongs.

Thus, for example, King David's baby is said to suffer death for David's wrongdoing (2 Sam 12:14).
Thus, for example, the kingdom of Judah is said to be destroyed because of the sins of Manasseh, who was long dead when that event took place (2 Kings 24:1-4).
Thus, for example, Job didn't do anything at all and he still got royally worked over.

Clearly, the Old Testament does not share a lot of our modern ideas. Yet neither does the New Testament. This is no surprise. Or it shouldn't be.
 
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jsimms615

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This question is really no different than the question - why was Joshua and the Israelites commanded to kill EVERYTHING when they took a city? What did animals and babies do to deserve slaughter?

The answer: nothing.

Most of the Old Testament does not operate under the conviction that someone (or some thing) is only held accountable for its own wrongs. It assumes - almost everywhere - that someone (or some thing) can suffer the consequences of someone (or some thing) else's wrongs.

Thus, for example, King David's baby is said to suffer death for David's wrongdoing (2 Sam 12:14).
Thus, for example, the kingdom of Judah is said to be destroyed because of the sins of Manasseh, who was long dead when that event took place (2 Kings 24:1-4).
Thus, for example, Job didn't do anything at all and he still got royally worked over.

Clearly, the Old Testament does not share a lot of our modern ideas. Yet neither does the New Testament. This is no surprise. Or it shouldn't be.

The kingdom of Judah was not destroyed just because of the sins of Manasseh. Prophets were warning Judah and Israel to repent long before him. It was because of the people's idol worship among other sins that God judged them.
 
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ChristsSoldier115

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Sometimes I think God works indirectly in His miracles maybe? Man was being a jerk. God, with his omniscience.. knew that other events of the world he created, would eventually[ice age ending and the ice melting??]cause a flood right there and then and so he chose Noah and his family to continue on...those animals Noah saved are of course needed for the eco system of the environment so God had Noah store them up in a big old boat.

Just a possible view. Not based on biblical fact at all I think now that I look at it.. oh well time to click post quick reply.
 
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Melshezidek

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No, I am assuming God doesn't punish the innocent
If God doesn't punish the "innocent" then how do we explain this passage where He takes out an entire family for one man's sin?

Joshua 7:22 So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent; and behold, it was concealed in his tent with the silver underneath it. 23 They took them from inside the tent and brought them to Joshua and to all the sons of Israel, and they poured them out before the Lord. 24 Then Joshua and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, the silver, the mantle, the bar of gold, his sons, his daughters, his oxen, his donkeys, his sheep, his tent and all that belonged to him; and they brought them up to the valley of Achor. 25 Joshua said, “Why have you troubled us? The Lord will trouble you this day.” And all Israel stoned them with stones; and they burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones. 26 They raised over him a great heap of stones that stands to this day, and the Lord turned from the fierceness of His anger. Therefore the name of that place has been called the valley of Achor to this day.


If that isn't enough, then how is it that all of humanity is reaping the consequences of Adam & Eve's decision to sin?

We are a corporate people and what others do affects us. What we do affects others also. The world teaches us we can do what we want because it doesn't affect others but God says otherwise.
 
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Melshezidek

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Sometimes I think God works indirectly in His miracles maybe? Man was being a jerk. God, with his omniscience.. knew that other events of the world he created, would eventually[ice age ending and the ice melting??]cause a flood right there and then and so he chose Noah and his family to continue on...those animals Noah saved are of course needed for the eco system of the environment so God had Noah store them up in a big old boat.

Just a possible view. Not based on biblical fact at all I think now that I look at it.. oh well time to click post quick reply.
Yeah this is a bit weak. How did melting ice somehow end up raining down from the sky?
 
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jsimms615

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If God doesn't punish the "innocent" then how do we explain this passage where He takes out an entire family for one man's sin?

Joshua 7:22 So Joshua sent messengers, and they ran to the tent; and behold, it was concealed in his tent with the silver underneath it. 23 They took them from inside the tent and brought them to Joshua and to all the sons of Israel, and they poured them out before the Lord. 24 Then Joshua and all Israel with him, took Achan the son of Zerah, the silver, the mantle, the bar of gold, his sons, his daughters, his oxen, his donkeys, his sheep, his tent and all that belonged to him; and they brought them up to the valley of Achor. 25 Joshua said, “Why have you troubled us? The Lord will trouble you this day.” And all Israel stoned them with stones; and they burned them with fire after they had stoned them with stones. 26 They raised over him a great heap of stones that stands to this day, and the Lord turned from the fierceness of His anger. Therefore the name of that place has been called the valley of Achor to this day.


If that isn't enough, then how is it that all of humanity is reaping the consequences of Adam & Eve's decision to sin?

We are a corporate people and what others do affects us. What we do affects others also. The world teaches us we can do what we want because it doesn't affect others but God says otherwise.

That's a good question regarding Achan. I don't really have an answer for that except that possible his family members knew the rules and should have stopped him and did not. I have no idea why they gathered all of his things including the animals and stoned them. Seems like overkill to me.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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And yet that was his choice.

What does that have to do with anything?

We can choose to reject God. Our punishment would be ours by choice. If that's the way you were headed here. Your first post indicated that you believed there were innocent people.
 
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SolomonVII

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The earth itself became corrupted with the blood of Abel. When the moral balance of the earth was shattered, so too was the natural balance of harmonic living within all of nature.

Some Jewish sages surmise from Adam's looking for a mate among the animals, and Eve in effect consummating that choice through finding a 'mate' in the snake, that this led to a state of affairs where men were fornicating with the animals, further corrupting the earth with their sin. They conclude that this is why God introduced meat-eating in the aftermath of the recreation of the world through the flood, in order to firmly instill it into the imagination of future generations that kingdom of man is not the same as the kingdom of the beasts. Before that, the diet was herbivorous.

That is a theological answer. If the OP question is more firmly rooted in materialism though, then the more proper answer lies in science. Science of course takes no account of the ways of the spirit which defy measurements only suited for understanding the space-time continuum.
 
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AnticipateHisComing

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... if God was judging mankind why did all of the animals on earth except for the ones on the ark also have to die? What did they do that they had to die?
Couldn't God have figured out a way to do in mankind without killing all the animals?
If all the animals had to die then why exempt the fish and sea creatures?

Why does it matter? Were animals created in the image of God? Do animals have souls? Animals were killed for sacrifices. After the flood God said it was OK to kill animals for food.

I am sure that much plant life also died in the flood. Is that unjust?

I end with Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.
 
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jsimms615

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What does that have to do with anything?

We can choose to reject God. Our punishment would be ours by choice. If that's the way you were headed here. Your first post indicated that you believed there were innocent people.

My first post was about animals not people. Jesus chose to go to the cross. he could have chose not to.
In fact, the very title of the thread is about animals not people.
I am just wondering if God just wanted to judge people then why did he not judge people and leave the animals alone all together? God is fully capable of killing of all the evil people by disease or some other method or simply withholding his life giving power from them for one second and they all would die. No need for a flood at all.
So why all the drama? Why wait 120 years for Noah to build an ark?
 
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jsimms615

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Why does it matter? Were animals created in the image of God? Do animals have souls? Animals were killed for sacrifices. After the flood God said it was OK to kill animals for food.

I am sure that much plant life also died in the flood. Is that unjust?

I end with Romans 8:20 For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope
21 that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the freedom and glory of the children of God.
22 We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time.

Oh, okay, it is okay with you just to kill animals just for no reason. Got it.
 
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jsimms615

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The earth itself became corrupted with the blood of Abel. When the moral balance of the earth was shattered, so too was the natural balance of harmonic living within all of nature.

Some Jewish sages surmise from Adam's looking for a mate among the animals, and Eve in effect consummating that choice through finding a 'mate' in the snake, that this led to a state of affairs where men were fornicating with the animals, further corrupting the earth with their sin. They conclude that this is why God introduced meat-eating in the aftermath of the recreation of the world through the flood, in order to firmly instill it into the imagination of future generations that kingdom of man is not the same as the kingdom of the beasts. Before that, the diet was herbivorous.

That is a theological answer. If the OP question is more firmly rooted in materialism though, then the more proper answer lies in science. Science of course takes no account of the ways of the spirit which defy measurements only suited for understanding the space-time continuum.

Where in the Bible does it say that Adam or Eve were fornicating with animals? Nowhere.
 
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PreachersWife2004

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My first post was about animals not people. Jesus chose to go to the cross. he could have chose not to.
In fact, the very title of the thread is about animals not people.
I am just wondering if God just wanted to judge people then why did he not judge people and leave the animals alone all together? God is fully capable of killing of all the evil people by disease or some other method or simply withholding his life giving power from them for one second and they all would die. No need for a flood at all.
So why all the drama? Why wait 120 years for Noah to build an ark?

The world was evil.

And you seem to put animals on equal footing as people.
 
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Achilles6129

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So, I am reading through the Bible again this year, not chronologically, but I started Genesis the other day and reading the story of Noah. I was reading about how Noah gathered up the animals. I know there has been a lot of threads about the ark on here and my question is not about that. But, rather if God was judging mankind why did all of the animals on earth except for the ones on the ark also have to die? What did they do that they had to die?
Couldn't God have figured out a way to do in mankind without killing all the animals?
If all the animals had to die then why exempt the fish and sea creatures?

Hmm...well several points. Firstly, what convinces you that all the animals were good? And can animals really suffer in the same way that human beings suffer? Second, all the animals in Revelation seem to be doing just fine as they are all praising God. So there are two passages for you to consider:

1) Are all the animals really good?:

" 5 For your own lifeblood I will surely require a reckoning: from every animal I will require it and from human beings, each one for the blood of another, I will require a reckoning for human life." Gen. 9:5 (NRSV)

2) They're doing just fine in Revelation:

"13 Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, singing,
“To the one seated on the throne and to the Lamb
be blessing and honor and glory and might
forever and ever!”" Rev. 5:13 (NRSV)



I am just wondering if God just wanted to judge people then why did he not judge people and leave the animals alone all together? God is fully capable of killing of all the evil people by disease or some other method or simply withholding his life giving power from them for one second and they all would die. No need for a flood at all.
So why all the drama? Why wait 120 years for Noah to build an ark?

The water is to purge the earth of the human race's evil. It's like baptism (which is symbolic) or other water-rituals in the OT. Water is also symbolic of God himself, as is fire. It is no accident that the second time the planet is to be destroyed, it is by fire. God chooses a method of judgment which is symbolic of himself.
 
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SolomonVII

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Where in the Bible does it say that Adam or Eve were fornicating with animals? Nowhere.

Where in the Bible does is say e=mc^2?

Yours is a similarly vacuous commentary on my post.
Maybe you can try harder next time, enough to capture my interest.:)
 
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