Pre-T Camp need to reconsider

B1inHim said:

That was very uncaring of me to post this and not say anything. Back in the day where we had a few thousand people here and there, or when we could only travel 20 miles per day, the thought of a Pre-T harpazo would have been most excellent. NO PAIN, ALL GAIN. But today IF the harpazo were to happen as the Pre-T camp says, we would have thousands of pilot-less conveyances traveling at speeds of much greater than 20 miles per day and the consiquent devastation to bystanders would be unimaginable. Hundreds of thousand if not millions of people killed, maimed and harmed all because God decided to send His Son to gather the elect before He unleashed His wrath against the unrepentant. Completely removing any type of faith in a God who would cause the death of little Bobby and Suzi. Dashing any hope for salvation in Christ, especially due to the fact that He was the one who was the reason why Aunt Beverly and Uncle Bob were run down by a 767 that crash landed in the hospital that cousin Jim was being cared for. Absolutely annihilate any love towards a God who would allow such a travesty to happen all in His name. Thus unequivocally rendering over 2,000 years of evangelism to naught. The notion of a Pre-T harpazo is filled with self-centered, uncaring, ear tickling, flesh preserving, carnality, bent on vanishing at any given moment without any concern or consideration over the subsequent consequences. SURE, you can manipulate the Word to co-sign this teaching, but you cannot manipulate the aftermath of such a monumental moment in time. The Pre-T harpazo is not in the Bible. Love. ????? ???? ?? ??? Brother Jerry

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The rapture is imminent and could happen at any moment . Only true Christians will be caught up at this time. The rest of the earth will have to go through the various judgements that will arise. The tribulation period arises so that Israel can believe in the true messiah . Most of the earth will be deceived and will take the mark of the beast. Rev 3:10 states that the church will be kept out of the hour of temptation. Pre- tribulation in no way manipulates the word of God.

B1inHim said:

That was very uncaring of me to post this and not say anything.

Back in the day where we had a few thousand people here and there, or when we could only travel 20 miles per day, the thought of a Pre-T harpazo would have been most excellent.

NO PAIN, ALL GAIN.

But today IF the harpazo were to happen as the Pre-T camp says, we would have thousands of pilot-less conveyances traveling at speeds of much greater than 20 miles per day and the consiquent devastation to bystanders would be unimaginable.

Hundreds of thousand if not millions of people killed, maimed and harmed all because God decided to send His Son to gather the elect before He unleashed His wrath against the unrepentant.

Completely removing any type of faith in a God who would cause the death of little Bobby and Suzi.

Dashing any hope for salvation in Christ, especially due to the fact that He was the one who was the reason why Aunt Beverly and Uncle Bob were run down by a 767 that crash landed in the hospital that cousin Jim was being cared for.

Absolutely annihilate any love towards a God who would allow such a travesty to happen all in His name.
Thus unequivocally rendering over 2,000 years of evangelism to naught.

The notion of a Pre-T harpazo is filled with self-centered, uncaring, ear tickling, flesh preserving, carnality, bent on vanishing at any given moment without any concern or consideration over the subsequent consequences.

SURE, you can manipulate the Word to co-sign this teaching, but you cannot manipulate the aftermath of such a monumental moment in time.

The Pre-T harpazo is not in the Bible.

Love.
משרתם בונד של ישו
Brother Jerry

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You are indeed correct that when the rapture occurs, it will be the end of two thousand years of evangelism. For when that happens the Restrainer will be removed and the Antichrist will be revealed, and all who have rejected will be turned over to believe the lie.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
2 Thessalonians 2:8-11

You reject the idea because of this, but that is God's plan. The rapture will occur when the church is complete, when everyone God has chosen for salvation has been saved.

You imagine that we believe this because it is all gain, no pain. But that is not the reason at all. We have chosen this because we see it in the scriptures.

When the rapture occurs, the period of the church is over, and God is ready to resume His dealings with Israel. These dealings begin with subjecting them to a time so terrible that it will finally bring a remnant of them to repentance, but two-thirds of all of them living in the land will be killed.

8 And it shall come to pass in all the land," Says the LORD, "That two-thirds in it shall be cut off and die, But one-third shall be left in it:
9 I will bring the one-third through the fire, Will refine them as silver is refined, And test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, And I will answer them. I will say, 'This is My people'; And each one will say, 'The LORD is my God.' "
Zechariah 13:8-9



When they have finally repented, Messiah will come and they will recognize Him as their long awaited Messiah, but will not realize he is that same Jesus whose name thay have so long despised.

6 And one shall say unto him, What are these wounds in thine hands? Then he shall answer, Those with which I was wounded in the house of my friends.
Zechariah 13:6

The result will be that they will repent of their rejection of Jesus, will believe Him, and turn to Him with their whole hearts.

10 "And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn.
11 In that day there shall be a great mourning in Jerusalem, like the mourning at Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo.
12 And the land shall mourn, every family by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of the house of Nathan by itself, and their wives by themselves;
13 the family of the house of Levi by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family of Shimei by itself, and their wives by themselves;
Zechariah 12:10-13

7 Then I will give them a heart to know Me, that I am the LORD; and they shall be My people, and I will be their God, for they shall return to Me with their whole heart.
Jeremiah 24:7

If you had even the beginning of an understanding of the end time scenario presented in the Holy Scriptures, you would realize that the rapture is part of that plan, for the end time scenario does not even include the church. it is all about bringing Israel to repentance.

Hi Jerry, that is a long drop from that soap box you are standing on.....

But I would like to hear who you think the AC has been revealed to be?

"The AC has indeed been revealed to those who are not looking through the teachings of men that has blinded the eyes of even the elect."

B1inHim said:

That is not my position.

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Did I misunderstand you? That was your quote, wasn't it?

Are you clarifying that you don't know the identity of the Antichrist?

B1inHim said:

I am not.

A clear understanding can not be made by the mouth of men nor received by the wisdom of man.

It is not my position to reveal the identity.

That must be made by the Spirit that knows all and searches the hearts of all.

The theology of the search for the AC is futile due to the fact that the search made by men is carnal. No man can understand by mere technology and the foolishness of man makes it of no value for this servant to say "who" the Ac is except that the Spirit of God show this.

“Continue to ask, and God will give to you. Continue to search, and you will find. Continue to knock, and the door will open for you. Yes, whoever continues to ask will receive. Whoever continues to look will find. And whoever continues to knock will have the door opened for them. “Do any of you have a son? If he asked for bread, would you give him a rock? Or if he asked for a fish, would you give him a snake? Of course not! You people are so bad, but you still know how to give good things to your children. So surely your heavenly Father will give good things to those who ask him.


You are asking the wrong person for the answer.


Consider this, the AC is not going to come out and say; "here I AM." Nor are men going to be able to recognize him by the acts of pseudo divinity that he will do.



Many say "we will know" and the Spirit of God says, except it be shown by My Spirit, no one shall know.


“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God.
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet He Himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.

You have the mind of Christ, ask God, not me.

Peace to you

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Jerry, what are you talking about? I am just asking you who you think the Antichrist is. I am not asking who the Antichrist is. I am asking you who you think the Antichrist is. I already know that you don't know.

B1inHim said:

Great, then why ask if you already know the answer.

We are done here.

Thanks for your attention and replies.

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I didn't say I knew who you thought the Antichrist is. I said I already know that you don't know.

I want to hear from you who you think the Antichrist is, since you say you know. It could be that you are just making it up that you know.

Big Mouth Nana said in post 14:

He knows and so do I. I personally have come to the point to where I don't bother with this site anymore because people didn't want to listen...after 8 years of screaming his name.

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Do you mean Obama? If so, Obama isn't the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast"), for the gematrial "number of the name" of the Antichrist is 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2), whereas the gematrial number of the name Barack Hussein Obama is 793:

B=2, A=1, R=90, A=1, C=3, K=20, H=8, U=300, S=100, S=100, E=5, I=9, N=50, O=60, B=2, A=1, M=40, A=1. Total = 793.

Also, the Antichrist will come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). These kingdoms stretched from Greece over to Iran, and down into Egypt. So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East. He could be an Arab who will come from Lebanon, from the modern city of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:2; 2 Thessalonians 2:4), and have a name like (for example) "Nabil Abdullah Falakal al-Hakim", which adds up to 666.

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The "666" in Revelation 13:17c-18 refers to the number six hundred and sixty-six, the "number of the name" of the individual "man" who is the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast). The number of a name (Revelation 13:17c-18, Revelation 15:2) is determined by employing the ancient method of gematria, by which numerical values are assigned to the letters of any alphabet as follows: the first nine letters are 1 through 9, the next nine letters are 10 through 90 (counting by tens), and the rest of the letters are 100, 200, 300, etc., to the end of the alphabet. In Revelation 13:18, the "counting", the adding up, of the gematrial number of the Antichrist's name should be done in the same way that the gematrial numerical values of the 3 Greek letters (Chi, Xi, and Stigma) at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the original Greek Textus Receptus) are added up to arrive at the number six hundred and sixty-six.

The numerical values of the letters of the ancient Greek alphabet (including the 3 obsolete letters of Stigma, Qoppa, and Sampi) were as follows: Alpha = 1, Beta = 2, Gamma = 3, Delta = 4, Epsilon = 5, Stigma = 6, Zeta = 7, Eta = 8, Theta = 9, Iota = 10, Kappa = 20, Lambda = 30, Mu = 40, Nu = 50, Xi = 60, Omikron = 70, Pi = 80, Qoppa = 90, Rho = 100, Sigma = 200, Tau = 300, Upsilon = 400, Phi = 500, Chi = 600, Psi = 700, Omega = 800, Sampi = 900.

Just as the numerical values of Chi, Xi, and Stigma at the end of Revelation 13:18 (in the Textus Receptus) add up to 666, so the numerical values of the letters in the Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18). John used the Greek alphabet because it was the most common one used by believers when the book of Revelation was written. Today, the English alphabet is the most common one used by believers, insofar as English is the current lingua franca of the world. So the Antichrist's name will most likely add up to 666 in the English alphabet. The purpose of Revelation 13:17c-18 is to facilitate for believers, not to make difficult for them, the identification of a certain man as possibly being the Antichrist. If the letters in his name had to be transliterated into the Greek alphabet, this would vitiate this purpose, for almost all believers today wouldn't know how to properly perform this transliteration, and so different believers would come up with different transliterations, and so would come up with different gematrial numbers for the name of the man in question.

If believers think that someone is the Antichrist, they need to check and make sure that his name adds up to 666 in gematria (Revelation 13:17c-18). If it doesn't, then he isn't the Antichrist. If it does, then he could be, and they need to be especially wary of him and not be taken in by any deceptive charisma, intelligence, or amazing deeds that he might display. But even if someone's name adds up to 666, this doesn't mean that he is definitely the Antichrist. For just by chance there could be more than one person in the world whose name adds up to 666. The Antichrist also (again) has to come from a country the territory of which used to be part of one of the 4 Diadochian Greek kingdoms which succeeded Alexander the Great (Daniel 8:8-9,21-25). So the Antichrist could come from the Middle East.

But if a man from the Middle East has a name which adds up to 666, even this doesn't assure that he is the Antichrist. For he also has to sit (at least one time) in a 3rd Jewish temple in Jerusalem and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, Daniel 11:31,36, Matthew 24:15, Revelation 11:1-2). Once he does that, there won't be any room for doubt over whether or not he is the Antichrist; his identity will have been definitely revealed (2 Thessalonians 2:3b-4).

The gematrial numerical values of the letters of the English alphabet are: A=1, B=2, C=3, D=4, E=5, F=6, G=7, H=8, I=9, J=10, K=20, L=30, M=40, N=50, O=60, P=70, Q=80, R=90, S=100, T=200, U=300, V=400, W=500, X=600, Y=700, Z=800. The way that the gematrial number of a name is "counted" (Revelation 13:17c-18), is added up, is simply by adding up the gematrial numerical values of all the letters in that name. So, for example, the number of the name "John Mark Smith" is 636, because: J=10, O=60, H=8, N=50, M=40, A=1, R=90, K=20, S=100, M=40, I=9, T=200, H=8. Total = 636. The Antichrist's name will add up to 666 (Revelation 13:17c-18).