Christianity Morality and OT laws

SithDoughnut

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If I called you a [bless and do not curse] for posting that, would that be right or wrong? I think it would be wrong, do you agree?

What if someone is pointing a gun at your mother's head and telling you that you must make that statement or she will die? Is it still wrong to do?
 
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Chesterton

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What if someone is pointing a gun at your mother's head and telling you that you must make that statement or she will die? Is it still wrong to do?

No, probably not. But your attempt at sophistry is wrong to do. :D
 
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SithDoughnut

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No, probably not. But your attempt at sophistry is wrong to do. :D

My post wasn't sophistry, but this one was.

Point is, morality is always relative. There is nothing which can never be justified or condemned, because it's all a matter of context. That doesn't make it useless or irrelevant, but it's important to remember.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I.e. God's prescribed morality changed as necessary depending on the cultural context.

In other words, relativism - but excused away with some theologico-wibble.

Well, no. As the story is told, Abraham was promised a certain land, and that meant the people living there would be moved out (unless they joined themselves to Israel). A few hundreds years later, the setting for the Messiah's first appearance was set.

Peace
 
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Chesterton

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My post wasn't sophistry, but this one was.

Point is, morality is always relative. There is nothing which can never be justified or condemned, because it's all a matter of context. That doesn't make it useless or irrelevant, but it's important to remember.

Torturing puppies for the fun of it? Possibly justifiable?
 
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Ken-1122

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Ken

I don't like it, but if a nation becomes intensely perverse on a wide scale, then they will become vulnerable to the mishaps of war; in fact, God will orchestrate their downfall, and it will be an ugly process. God isn't to be trifled with (specifically under the Old Testament Law).

In some ways, its not much different than our sins against nature. If we keep 'sinning' against the planet with our 'superior knowledge,' we'll keep getting Hurricane Katrina and Sandy, and whatever else. Our sins against God will likewise have spiritual and actual ramifications.

We just think that stinks.

Peace
Again: Do you believe such atrocities like genocide and rape is justified during war?

Ken
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Again: Do you believe such atrocities like genocide and rape is justified during war?

Ken

Oh...someone help me...I've been impaled on the 'horns of a dilemma'!

Nice try, Ken.

Do I believe such actions like capital punishment and taking a virgin wife are justified during war time? Sure. Why not? :cool:
 
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SithDoughnut

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Torturing puppies for the fun of it? Possibly justifiable?

Say the person doing it lacks the ability to comprehend that they are causing suffering, and from their point of view are playing with the puppies. From their perspective, the action is justifiable. From our perspective, the action may be wrong, but we cannot necessarily judge it as morally wrong due to the lack of intention to torture.

Like I said, it's all relative. Even if you then added "intentionally" to the beginning of your scenario, it's still morally justifiable to the person doing it, just not to us.
 
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Chesterton

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Say the person doing it lacks the ability to comprehend that they are causing suffering, and from their point of view are playing with the puppies. From their perspective, the action is justifiable. From our perspective, the action may be wrong, but we cannot necessarily judge it as morally wrong due to the lack of intention to torture.

Like I said, it's all relative. Even if you then added "intentionally" to the beginning of your scenario, it's still morally justifiable to the person doing it, just not to us.

Okay, I didn't realize we were discussing this from the perspective of insane psychopaths. ;) Can't judge anything then.

P.S. Flippancy is the lowest form of wit. Sarcasm, used sparingly, can be quite fun and effective.
 
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SithDoughnut

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Okay, I didn't realize we were discussing this from the perspective of insane psychopaths. ;)

We're discussing it from every perspective - if you stick to one perspective then you're not really discussing morality, just a single person's opinion.

Can't judge anything then.

Why? If someone likes a different colour to you, are you not allowed to have an opinion on colour any more?

P.S. Flippancy is the lowest form of wit.

Counterargument: Monty Python.

Sarcasm, used sparingly, can be quite fun and effective.

Can't disagree with this though.
 
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Ken-1122

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Say the person doing it lacks the ability to comprehend that they are causing suffering, and from their point of view are playing with the puppies.
If the person lacks the ability to comprehend that he is causing suffering, than that person is mentally sick and should be put away so he cannot harm anybody.
From their perspective, the action is justifiable. From our perspective, the action may be wrong, but we cannot necessarily judge it as morally wrong due to the lack of intention to torture.
We can and do judge such actions as wrong, which is why prison and insane assylums are full of such people who are unaware that they are causing harm.

Like I said, it's all relative. Even if you then added "intentionally" to the beginning of your scenario, it's still morally justifiable to the person doing it, just not to us.
It doesn't matter what the person doing it thinks, he is mentally sick! That is why he should either be put away or banned from society.

Ken
 
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SithDoughnut

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If the person lacks the ability to comprehend that he is causing suffering, than that person is mentally sick and should be put away so he cannot harm anybody.

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That person, put away or not, still considers their actions to be morally justifiable. If morality were universal, that would not be the case.

We can and do judge such actions as wrong, which is why prison and insane assylums are full of such people who are unaware that they are causing harm.

I think you're confusing "morality is relative" with "I think these actions are not wrong".
 
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Ken-1122

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This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand. That person, put away or not, still considers their actions to be morally justifiable. If morality were universal, that would not be the case.



I think you're confusing "morality is relative" with "I think these actions are not wrong".
You're right. Perhaps I didn't read back into your conversations before offering my opinions.

Ken
 
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durangodawood

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Many believe that Christianity is a religion that imposes a particular morality with specific ethical behavior, and that a Christian is one who lives by certain rules and regulations imposed upon him. That behavioral conformity to those moral codes of conduct is what the Christian strives to perform in order to please and/or appease God. That is not Christianity, it is a tragic misrepresentation of Christianity.
???

Christianity is chock full of moral prescriptions.
 
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Ken-1122

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Many believe that Christianity is a religion that imposes a particular morality with specific ethical behavior, and that a Christian is one who lives by certain rules and regulations imposed upon him. That behavioral conformity to those moral codes of conduct is what the Christian strives to perform in order to please and/or appease God. That is not Christianity, it is a tragic misrepresentation of Christianity.
Didn't your Jesus say something about "a tree is known by the fruit it bears"? Weather you agree that Christianity is about what you discribed or not, there is something about Christianity that bears that type of fruit.

Ken
 
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M

muslimsoldier4life

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I think the basic premise of the video rings true, especially in today's society. For a group of people who worship a man wrongly put to death, they sure do love the death penalty. For a group of people who are supposed to give up their worldly goods and follow Christ, they sure do complain about having to support those on welfare. For those supposed to love their enemies and treat each other with love and understanding, Christians seem to be the ones initiating more wars and strife than any other religion in the history of mankind.

If a Muslim commits an act, people blame it on Islam. We Muslims state he's just being a bad Muslim when the act is not according to Islam. Whenever a Christian commits an act, it's never supposed to be blamed on Christianity and the old "he's not really Christian" idea comes out. If the OT laws were thrown out, then how come the death penalty is still on the table for most Christians? How come you are against homosexuality, but Jesus says love your neighbor? Christian morality today, is pick and choose period. There never has been a supposed "Christian nation", so how do you decide what is morally correct and what isn't?
 
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Ken-1122

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If a Muslim commits an act, people blame it on Islam. We Muslims state he's just being a bad Muslim when the act is not according to Islam. Whenever a Christian commits an act, it's never supposed to be blamed on Christianity and the old "he's not really Christian" idea comes out.
If a Christian commited the act in the name of the Jesus, and there were a pelethora of Christian leaders who confirmed that Jesus approved of such an act, I will bet you will see a lot of people blaming such acts on Christianity.

Ken
 
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Steeno7

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Didn't your Jesus say something about "a tree is known by the fruit it bears"? Weather you agree that Christianity is about what you discribed or not, there is something about Christianity that bears that type of fruit.

Ken

What "type" of fruit? You mean Godly fruit? Fruit that is the very character of God? Indeed.
 
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