Why is LOTR acceptable among Christians...

I have never heard of any kids being lured into the occult.

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Hmmm...Well, really, anyone who delves into the occult has in some way been lured by the demonic to do so. In any case, I know of a couple of tweens who borrowed texts on witchcraft and the occult from their local library as a consequence of watching Harry Potter. They wanted to see if there was any way to tap into "magic" for themselves. Not an unexpected response from children to the fantasy of HP - especially if it is subtly encouraged by the demonic, which works to influence us all in some way. (Eph. 6:10-12)

All of my kids read the series, and not one of them tried out any spells and none of them have been "lured into the occult". They know it's fantasy. It's no less fantasy than any other book or any other movie they have ever seen.

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Okay. But what is true for your kids is not necessarily true for all other kids who have watched or read the HP series.

So there's nothing "inevitable" about it. Unless you have some proof of that.

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Actually, if you read what I wrote more carefully, you'll see that I didn't say reading or watching HP would lead inevitably to the demonic but that investigating the occult would have such a consequence.

Selah.

Boidae said:

I never said that she wasn't Muggle born, I clearly stated that, but from what I have read, she herself isn't a Muggle. She is a witch born of Muggles.

Maybe we're just talking semantics, but she was never actually considered a Muggle, even though her parents were.

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Muggle = non magic person born of non magic parents
Squib = non magic person born of magic parents
witch/wizard = magic person
mud-blood = derogatory term for a witch or wizard born of Muggle parents

abysmul said:

mud-blood = derogatory term for a witch or wizard born of Muggle parents

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Which is what Hermione was called by Malfoy.

Boidae said:

Which is what Hermione was called by Malfoy.

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Correct, because she is a witch (not a muggle), just a witch with non magic parents!


Mrs Figg, who lived near Harry, was a squib and member of the Order of the Phoenix, and looked out for Harry when he was "home" and growing up.

abysmul said:

Correct, because she is a witch (not a muggle), just a witch with non magic parents!

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Which is what I was saying. Maybe I wasn't explaining it clearly.

Boidae said:

Which is what I was saying. Maybe I wasn't explaining it clearly.

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No, I think you were pretty clear. I was just agreeing honestly

I know of a couple of tweens who borrowed texts on witchcraft and the occult from their local library as a consequence of watching Harry Potter.

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So where were their parents? My kids always went to the library with a parent. They weren't allowed to go on their own.

And the librarian allowed kids that age to take out books on witchcraft and the occult?

It sounds to me like all of the adults failed those kids.

Hetta said:

So where were their parents? My kids always went to the library with a parent. They weren't allowed to go on their own.

And the librarian allowed kids that age to take out books on witchcraft and the occult?

It sounds to me like all of the adults failed those kids.

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Hmmm I know when I was a kid (admittedly a different time) I wasn't allowed to check out a non-fiction book on wolves and "Angel Unawares" by Dale Evans.

My mom was mad that they wouldn't let me and went to the library and told them to let me check out whatever I wanted. But she never kept anything from me actually (not that I'd say that's overly healthy either).

Kylissa said:

Hmmm I know when I was a kid (admittedly a different time) I wasn't allowed to check out a non-fiction book on wolves and "Angel Unawares" by Dale Evans.

My mom was mad that they wouldn't let me and went to the library and told them to let me check out whatever I wanted. But she never kept anything from me actually (not that I'd say that's overly healthy either).

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Yes. I am unconvinced that children can obtain adult books from the library. They cannot obtain a library card without parental consent and if children really are running to the library alone and checking out adult books, parents should be talking to the library about that and also figuring out how they have failed those kids so far as supervision is concerned.

Hetta said:

Yes. I am unconvinced that children can obtain adult books from the library. They cannot obtain a library card without parental consent and if children really are running to the library alone and checking out adult books, parents should be talking to the library about that and also figuring out how they have failed those kids so far as supervision is concerned.

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I've had a library card literally longer than I can remember, and I had moved out of the "children's" section and was reading books intended for grown-ups by the 5th grade. That was back in the early 60s.

If by "adult" you mean adult...I've never yet been to a public library that had such a section.

RDKirk said:

I've had a library card literally longer than I can remember, and I had moved out of the "children's" section and was reading books intended for grown-ups by the 5th grade. That was back in the early 60s.

If by "adult" you mean adult...I've never yet been to a public library that had such a section.

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From what I saw online, parents must give permission for children to access the adult area, and no I merely mean adult books rather than children's books.

So where were their parents? My kids always went to the library with a parent. They weren't allowed to go on their own.

And the librarian allowed kids that age to take out books on witchcraft and the occult?

It sounds to me like all of the adults failed those kids.

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Hetta, this is all a bit beside the point, I think. It seems to me to be the better question to ask why adults should need to guard their children against this consequence of having watched Harry Potter. Perhaps, as I suggested, the series isn't quite as innocuous as you might believe.

Selah.

I'd think it is probably because Harry Potter directly mentions "Witchcraft". Granted, The Hobbit Part 1 did as well. I'll be honest I got really uncomfortable when that was mentioned. But not so much with Harry Potter. So I guess personal conviction really plays a part on what people think.

Boidae said:

You can correct if I am wrong, but you said that she is a Muggle herself, and that only by intense study she was able to perform magic and go to Hogwarts.

I never said that she wasn't Muggle born, I clearly stated that, but from what I have read, she herself isn't a Muggle. She is a witch born of Muggles.

Maybe we're just talking semantics, but she was never actually considered a Muggle, even though her parents were.

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OK, yeah, we're going with two different definitions of "Muggle". I'm using it as a term of race/blood/birth. You're using it as a term of lifestyle/career (or whatever else you'd want to call it). Yes, Hermione is a "witch" through her choice of study, just as someone could become a doctor by going to medical school. But genetically (which is what I meant), she is a Muggle with non-magic blood (which is why, despite her brilliance, she is despised by some in the magic world). So we weren't disagreeing, just using the word in two different ways

aiki said:

Hetta, this is all a bit beside the point, I think. It seems to me to be the better question to ask why adults should need to guard their children against this consequence of having watched Harry Potter. Perhaps, as I suggested, the series isn't quite as innocuous as you might believe.

Selah.

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Are you a parent? Parents do have to guard their children throughout their childhood from all kinds of things. HP is the very least of it.

There is nothing out there to watch or read that is 100% innocuous. Therefore, as parents, we have to make the call as to what they should watch/read when they are young children, or whether we will wrap them up in cotton wool and they never meet the world until they are 18. This latter is typically a very, very foolish decision to make.

We made the decision that our kids could read/watch HP as appropriate to their ages. They are now all old enough that they have either read the books or watched the movies. These books have provided some amazing food for our conversations, as have many other books/movies. But I don't have any one single child who has wished to embrace the occult from engaging with Harry. For any of those who do, then perhaps there is some naivety and lack of parental input that have sent those kids in that direction.

Whether you like it or not, parental input has a very great impact. If parents have this careless attitude of watch whatever you want and get whatever books you want, of course many kids will go wild. That's why parents need to be invested in their children's lives.

Inkachu said:

OK, yeah, we're going with two different definitions of "Muggle". I'm using it as a term of race/blood/birth. You're using it as a term of lifestyle/career (or whatever else you'd want to call it). Yes, Hermione is a "witch" through her choice of study, just as someone could become a doctor by going to medical school. But genetically (which is what I meant), she is a Muggle with non-magic blood (which is why, despite her brilliance, she is despised by some in the magic world). So we weren't disagreeing, just using the word in two different ways

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In the books there are two different basic types of non magic people: muggles and squibs.

Muggles are non magical people, who are the offspring of non magical people.
Squibs are non magical people, who are the offspring of magical people.

One can not be both a muggle and a witch.

abysmul said:

In the books there are two different basic types of non magic people: muggles and squibs.

Muggles are non magical people, who are the offspring of non magical people.
Squibs are non magical people, who are the offspring of magical people.

One can not be both a muggle and a witch.

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OK, once again, I was talking about her ANCESTRY... her BLOODLINE... it's like the difference between someone who is born of Jewish ancestry and someone who converts to Judaism. The convert isn't "Jewish" by ancestry/blood, only by lifestyle. They aren't the same as an ethnic Jew.

Can we stop now? lol

Are you a parent? Parents do have to guard their children throughout their childhood from all kinds of things. HP is the very least of it.

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Certainly, but this doesn't diminish my point about the Harry Potter series. Really, it sounds now like you vaguely agree with me.

There is nothing out there to watch or read that is 100% innocuous. Therefore, as parents, we have to make the call as to what they should watch/read when they are young children, or whether we will wrap them up in cotton wool and they never meet the world until they are 18. This latter is typically a very, very foolish decision to make.

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I suppose. But I've never actually advocated the "cotton wool" approach to parenting. In fact, my comments haven't been about parenting at all.

We made the decision that our kids could read/watch HP as appropriate to their ages. They are now all old enough that they have either read the books or watched the movies. These books have provided some amazing food for our conversations, as have many other books/movies. But I don't have any one single child who has wished to embrace the occult from engaging with Harry. For any of those who do, then perhaps there is some naivety and lack of parental input that have sent those kids in that direction.

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Just to be clear: I have not criticized your parenting choices. My comments were initially solely about the occult focus of the HP series. I will say this though: The devil is constantly at work through all sorts of means to bring us into darkness. If kids are lured into the occult as a result of watching/reading the HP series, it is not merely because their parents have dropped the ball in guiding them, but because the devil and his agents are actively promoting in them an interest in what is evil. And what better way to do so than to make the occult seem exciting, and fun, and empowering as the Harry Potter series does.

Selah.

is this a joke ....harry potter ....are you kidding i went with my kids and fell asleep at the pictures ...my kids love it ....honestly get a grip

Hetta said:

Yes. I am unconvinced that children can obtain adult books from the library. They cannot obtain a library card without parental consent and if children really are running to the library alone and checking out adult books, parents should be talking to the library about that and also figuring out how they have failed those kids so far as supervision is concerned.

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Hetta, that comment seems to conflict with what you're otherwise saying. You would not let your kids go to the public library alone? If you let your kids watch Harry Potter (or LOTR, for that matter), what books in the public library do you think they should not read?