The Rapture - heretical teaching

IS THE RAPTURE A HERETICAL TEACHING?

  • YES

  • NO


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shturt678s

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Actually you don't. This portion of your post, I will address thoroughly. According to scripture there is ONE people of God and has alway been ONE people of God!

To make my case I'm going to go through scriptures that totally refute your premise and show you to ignore the clear teaching of scripture:

Jesus made clear there will be ONE FLOCK with ONE SHEPHERD as He speaks to the Jews in John 10:15, 16:
15 even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
16 I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd.


The "other sheep" are the Gentiles! They become ONE FLOCK with Jews, and Christ is our Shepherd!

:thumbsup: If I recall correctly without scruinizing.

Romans 12:4, 5 teaches the church is ONE body:
4 For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function,
5 so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.


1 Corinthians 12:12, 13 teach the church us one body:
12 For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.
13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.


1 Corinthians 12:20 still teaching the church is one body:
20 But now there are many members, but one body.

In Galatians 3:22-29:, Paul "brings it home" to us as he concludes what Christ did for ALL people at the cross:
22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.
24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.
25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.
28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.


There are those that want to say this only applies to salvation, but HOW can that be when:

*Salvation is THE LIFE we live after Christ and our ultimate salvation is yet to come.

*We are members of ONE body

*Paul is consistently saying "there is NO DIFFERENCE" between JEWS and GREEKS.

We have Paul teaching the very same point in Ephesians! Ephesians 2:13-22 DESTROYS any idea that there are "two peoples of God"!!! Paul is telling us what happened because or the cross:
13 But now in Christ Jesus you who formerly were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ.
14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall,
15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace,
16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
17 And He came and preached peace to you who were far away, and peace to those who were near;
18 for through Him we both have our access in one Spirit to the Father.
19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household,
20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone,
21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, is growing into a holy temple in the Lord,
22 in whom you also are being built together into a dwelling of God in the Spirit.


Again we're in Ephesians 4 as Paul CRUSHES any idea "two peoples of God" as he says at Ephesians 4:4-6:
4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;
5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 one God and Father of all who is over all and through all and in all.


The apostle Paul is addressing this again in Galatians as he argues to make it clear that there is NO DIFFERENCE between JEWS and GENTILES in Christ!



Let there ever be the thorough rejection of ANY IDEA of "two peoples of God". Jesus made both groups into one through the cross.

Only a small technicality,, ie, at Pentecost, and not at the Cross, ie, all placed on the same level.

Biblewriter's view is not and NEVER will be correct!

Old Jack, trying to keep up, ie, age and mileage thing - you'll see later :o
 
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ebedmelech

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You are absolutely correct that the church is one body. But Israel is not the church.

The church is promised blessing in heaven, and Israel is promised blessing on earth. You can deny it, but you cannot change the scriptures that say it.
Sure thing Biblewriter. However as the passages pointed out:

*"there is no difference" in Christ.

*Jesus made both groups (Jews and Gentiles), into "ONE NEW MAN" through the cross.

*Gentiles become "FELLOW CITIZENS" with the saints

*ALL (all means all), who have clothed themselves with Christ are Abraham's descendants.

It can go on and on...and it shows you're really not thinking about what you read.

Now, let's destroy your premise that the church isn't Israel too!

This is "Salvation 101"...it starts with John 1:11-13
11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

ANYONE (no race infused), who receives Christ becomes a child of God!

Jesus told Peter upon his confession of Christ in Matthew 16:13-20:
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
15 He *said to them,“But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”
20 Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.


I think that stands on it's own. Peter confesses Christ as Lord, and Jesus says upon this Rock (Jesus Himself), He's going to build His church.

Now....let's "fast forward" to Pentecost. How many of Israel (Jews) became members of the church on that day? Luke tells us in 2:37-42:
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”
40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!”
41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.


Three thousand Jews become members of the church...but Israel is not the church...:confused: Also Peter includes Gentiles in the calling of God as he says "for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself"....THOSE ARE THE GENTILES...and Peter isn't making a difference! Why are you Biblewriter???

Now...in Acts 8:1, 2 (which is after Stephen was stoned), Luke tells us what began to happen in Jerusalem:
Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.
2 Some devout men buried Stephen, and made loud lamentation over him.
3 But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison.


Luke calls it "the church at Jerusalem", yet Biblewriter wants us to believe there's a difference in the church and Israel, yet the church at this point is *almost* exclusively Jews!

Biblewriter your view is flawed!
 
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ebedmelech

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:thumbsup: If I recall correctly without scruinizing.
:amen:
Only a small technicality,, ie, at Pentecost, and not at the Cross, ie, all placed on the same level.

Old Jack, trying to keep up, ie, age and mileage thing - you'll see later :o
I can go with that Jack...I won't press it...even though Jesus has already instituted the New Covenant. It is at the cross, that the Old Covenant was abolished.

The apostles as well as those saved at Pentecost are the beginning of the "remnant of Israel", that God is saving.
 
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Biblewriter

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Sure thing Biblewriter. However as the passages pointed out:

*"there is no difference" in Christ.

*Jesus made both groups (Jews and Gentiles), into "ONE NEW MAN" through the cross.

*Gentiles become "FELLOW CITIZENS" with the saints

*ALL (all means all), who have clothed themselves with Christ are Abraham's descendants.

It can go on and on...and it shows you're really not thinking about what you read.

Now, let's destroy your premise that the church isn't Israel too!

This is "Salvation 101"...it starts with John 1:11-13
11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him.
12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

ANYONE (no race infused), who receives Christ becomes a child of God!

Jesus told Peter upon his confession of Christ in Matthew 16:13-20:
13 Now when Jesus came into the district of Caesarea Philippi, He was asking His disciples, “Who do people say that the Son of Man is?”
14 And they said, “Some say John the Baptist; and others, Elijah; but still others, Jeremiah, or one of the prophets.”
15 He *said to them,“But who do you say that I am?”
16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
17 And Jesus said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.
18 I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it.
19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind on earth shall have been bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall have been loosed in heaven.”
20 Then He warned the disciples that they should tell no one that He was the Christ.


I think that stands on it's own. Peter confesses Christ as Lord, and Jesus says upon this Rock (Jesus Himself), He's going to build His church.

Now....let's "fast forward" to Pentecost. How many of Israel (Jews) became members of the church on that day? Luke tells us in 2:37-42:
37 Now when they heard this, they were pierced to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brethren, what shall we do?”
38 Peter said to them, “Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself.”
40 And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, “Be saved from this perverse generation!”
41 So then, those who had received his word were baptized; and that day there were added about three thousand souls.
42 They were continually devoting themselves to the apostles’ teaching and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer.


Three thousand Jews become members of the church...but Israel is not the church...:confused: Also Peter includes Gentiles in the calling of God as he says "for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself"....THOSE ARE THE GENTILES...and Peter isn't making a difference! Why are you Biblewriter???

Now...in Acts 8:1, 2 (which is after Stephen was stoned), Luke tells us what began to happen in Jerusalem:
Saul was in hearty agreement with putting him to death. And on that day a great persecution began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles.
2 Some devout men buried Stephen, and made loud lamentation over him.
3 But Saul began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison.


Luke calls it "the church at Jerusalem", yet Biblewriter wants us to believe there's a difference in the church and Israel, yet the church at this point is *almost* exclusively Jews!

Biblewriter your view is flawed!

Jews and other Israelites that trust Christ indeed become part of that one body, the church. We are agreed upon that.

What you refuse to admit is that the scripture very plainly, and in many places, say that He will again bless Israel. And they say that this will occur after He has returned, that is after the rapture, after the church has been removed from the world. This remains exactly the same regardless of when the rapture occurs, pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, or post-trib. After all of these times, Christ will come, and after He comes, after Armageddon, He will bring all Israel back to their land. He has plainly declared this. And his word is certain, and its coming as sure as the dawn.

and the term "you refuse to admit" is precisely correct. For I have given you these scriptures again and again, and you simply pretend that they do not mean what they explicitly say.
 
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Interplanner

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I don't know of any place in the NT where that repeat 'landing' of Israel is affirmed BW. If it is 'proof of the Bible' you're afraid is at risk, there shouldn't be any concern.

To put it another way, there is so much more clarity about what EbedM has summarized than there is trace of a second staging of Israel in its land in the NT, that it is not worth pursuing. Surely, you can see that.

For ex., as you go through Eph 2-3, if what you are saying is true, there would be at least be a line containing your counterpoint. But also there would be let's say 20 chapters to confirm it. This never happens in the NT. In the end of Acts, with his neck on the line, Paul says nothing to calm down his fanatical countrymen. He can't get them to see the level of fulfillment that is right in front of them.

Of course, I'm not counting the only one I can think of (Rom 11:26), because after so long an explanation as to why more Jews don't sort of automatically believe (with Paul explaining this to Gentiles in Rome who haven't had Jews around for a while), and Paul refering to another 'Israel' that is the elect or "us" or the remnant, I really don't think he is talking about the ethnos. Instead he say they are people who believe that the Redeemer came to Zion and took away the debt of sin, which is the new covenant, as historically understood.

Naturally, he urged them to believe and wanted them to be at work in the mission. They might even be as effective as Paul. They would have a head start. But there is no prediction about the ethnos as such.
 
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Biblewriter

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I don't know of any place in the NT where that repeat 'landing' of Israel is affirmed BW. If it is 'proof of the Bible' you're afraid is at risk, there shouldn't be any concern.

To put it another way, there is so much more clarity about what EbedM has summarized than there is trace of a second staging of Israel in its land in the NT, that it is not worth pursuing. Surely, you can see that.

You keep wanting to restrict the words of the Bible to the New testament. But that is serious error. The same Holy Spirit that inspired the New Testament also inspired the Old Testament.
 
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You keep wanting to restrict the words of the Bible to the New testament. But that is serious error. The same Holy Spirit that inspired the New Testament also inspired the Old Testament.

But the Israel of the Old Testament was "Fleshly Israel" Yes?

But the Israel of the New Testament is Spiritual Israel" Yes?

That make a whole difference does it not?
 
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random person

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The error of Rapture believers make is that they literalize symbolic passages.

Look its simple:

John 5:28-29

Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.

So is there going to be two hours?

And two twinklings of the eyes?

Three?

Four?

Or just one?
 
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iamlamad

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The error of Rapture believers make is that they literalize symbolic passages.

Look its simple:

John 5:28-29

Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54

Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.

So is there going to be two hours?

And two twinklings of the eyes?

Three?

Four?

Or just one?

Random person, WAKE UP!

Did you not read in Revelation that there will be 1000 years between the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the righteous? The sinners will not be resurrected until AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Therefore, when Jesus said "an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice" there will be TWO different hours, over a thousand years apart.

Paul is speaking of the rapture - PRETRIB - where all the dead in Christ rise. So this will be another "hour" separated from the time the Old Testament saints rise by about 7 years....so yet another "hour."

LAMAD
 
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random person

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Random person, WAKE UP!

Did you not read in Revelation that there will be 1000 years between the resurrection of the just and the resurrection of the righteous? The sinners will not be resurrected until AFTER the 1000 year reign of Christ.

Therefore, when Jesus said "an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice" there will be TWO different hours, over a thousand years apart.

Paul is speaking of the rapture - PRETRIB - where all the dead in Christ rise. So this will be another "hour" separated from the time the Old Testament saints rise by about 7 years....so yet another "hour."

LAMAD

Rev. 20:5 is the spiritual resurrection it is a symbolic resurrection not the Physical Resurrection spoken of later in the chapter.

1 Thess. 4:16 + 2 Peter 3:10,12-13 + Rev. 20:10!!!!!

John 5:28-29 + Rev. 20:11-15!!!!!
 
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REVELATION 20:5

+

John 5:25
John 6:40
John 6:44
John 6:54
John 11:23-25
John 14:19
Romans 6:4
Romans 8:10-11
1Corinthians 6:14
2 Corinthians 4:14
Ephesians 2:6
Colossians 2:12
2 Timothy 1:10
Etc.
 
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Biblewriter

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But the Israel of the Old Testament was "Fleshly Israel" Yes?

But the Israel of the New Testament is Spiritual Israel" Yes?

That make a whole difference does it not?

The "spiritual Israel" imagined to be in the New Testament is a human invention. You cannot find it in the text.
 
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iamlamad

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Rev. 20:5 is the spiritual resurrection it is a symbolic resurrection not the Physical Resurrection spoken of later in the chapter.

1 Thess. 4:16 + 2 Peter 3:10,12-13 + Rev. 20:10!!!!!

John 5:28-29 + Rev. 20:11-15!!!!!

YOu can add all the verses you wish, but spirits are alive all the time and NEED NO RESURRECTION! Why not just believe this verse as it is written?

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This makes PERFECT sense just the way it is written. The righteous will have resurrected at this time, but the unrighteous will have to wait for 1000 years.

A 5th grader could understand this. I guess it does not fit your preconceived theory, so you have a change it. Well, I guess you have company, for others on this forum like to change verses' literal sense into nonsense. You fit right in.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This fits PERFECTLY with the context: AFTER the 1000 years are finished, THEN it is time for the resurrection of the sinner. You have "spiritualized" the plain sense and ended up with nonsense.

LAMAD
 
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ebedmelech

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Jews and other Israelites that trust Christ indeed become part of that one body, the church. We are agreed upon that.

What you refuse to admit is that the scripture very plainly, and in many places, say that He will again bless Israel. And they say that this will occur after He has returned, that is after the rapture, after the church has been removed from the world. This remains exactly the same regardless of when the rapture occurs, pre-trib, mid-trib, pre-wrath, or post-trib. After all of these times, Christ will come, and after He comes, after Armageddon, He will bring all Israel back to their land. He has plainly declared this. And his word is certain, and its coming as sure as the dawn.

and the term "you refuse to admit" is precisely correct. For I have given you these scriptures again and again, and you simply pretend that they do not mean what they explicitly say.
Biblewriter, no one denies that God will do an outpouring on ethnic Israel, to deny that would be to deny Romans 11, and I have said that in many post.

There's no refusal of anything accept except your idea of a pre-trib rapture, which won't happen.

You can say what you want...that doesn't make it true.
 
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Douggg

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Biblewriter, no one denies that God will do an outpouring on ethnic Israel, to deny that would be to deny Romans 11, and I have said that in many post.

There's no refusal of anything accept except your idea of a pre-trib rapture, which won't happen.

You can say what you want...that doesn't make it true.
eb, can you not permit yourself to acknowledge that it (pre-trib rapture) is possible to happen, but that you lean toward that it probably won't happen?
 
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Biblewriter

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Biblewriter, no one denies that God will do an outpouring on ethnic Israel, to deny that would be to deny Romans 11, and I have said that in many post.

There's no refusal of anything accept except your idea of a pre-trib rapture, which won't happen.

You can say what you want...that doesn't make it true.

I agree that it is legitimate to debate the timing of the rapture. That is not where I fault you. I fault you for refusing to believe that God will again bless the physical nation of Israel in their ancient homeland, after He returns.

This is stated in plain words in too many scriptures to count. And there is not even one New Testament scripture that even hints at an idea that this will not actually happen.
 
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ebedmelech

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eb, can you not permit yourself to acknowledge that it (pre-trib rapture) is possible to happen, but that you lean toward that it probably won't happen?
No. I hold the 7 year tribulation began in 64 AD with Nero's persecution of the church. In 67 AD it intensified as Rome surrounded Jeruslaem to destroy it, and it ended with the destruction of Jerusalem and the dispersal of the Jews from the land.

As believers we know living for Christ brings tribulation. We are told that in Romans 5:1-5 and we know those who live Godly in Christ WILL suffer persecution. We don;t see it so much in the USA, but we know that saints are enduring serious persecution and tribulation around the world.

That's how I view it!
 
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YOu can add all the verses you wish, but spirits are alive all the time and NEED NO RESURRECTION! Why not just believe this verse as it is written?

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

This makes PERFECT sense just the way it is written. The righteous will have resurrected at this time, but the unrighteous will have to wait for 1000 years.

A 5th grader could understand this. I guess it does not fit your preconceived theory, so you have a change it. Well, I guess you have company, for others on this forum like to change verses' literal sense into nonsense. You fit right in.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

This fits PERFECTLY with the context: AFTER the 1000 years are finished, THEN it is time for the resurrection of the sinner. You have "spiritualized" the plain sense and ended up with nonsense.

LAMAD


Why no mention of second coming?

Why no mention of a bodily resurrection?

Why no mention of a reign on earth?

Why no mention of a literal throne of David?

Why no mention of Jerusalem or Palestine?

Why no mention of us?

Why no mention of Christ on earth?

Revelation 1:7

Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him, even those who pierced Him; and all the tribes of the earth will mourn over Him. So it is to be. Amen.

Hebrews 9:27-28

And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him.

Matthew 25:31-34, 41

“But when the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, then He will sit on His glorious throne. All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

“Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.

Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels;

Thessalonians 1:6-10

For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who have believed—for our testimony to you was believed.


How can you deny the resurrection of the good and the bad is occurring on the same Day and at the same Second Coming?


All you can do is throw out Revelation 20:1-5 again and again.
 
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John 5:25

Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

John 6:40

For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

John 6:44

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 6:54

He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 11:23-25

Jesus *said to her, “Your brother will rise again.” Martha *said to Him, “I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day.” Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies,

WHAT DAY?

WHAT DAY?

WHAT DAY?


2 Peter 3:7

But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

Peter 3:10-13

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.

Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!

But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.
 
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shturt678s

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:amen:

I can go with that Jack...I won't press it...even though Jesus has already instituted the New Covenant. It is at the cross, that the Old Covenant was abolished.

The apostles as well as those saved at Pentecost are the beginning of the "remnant of Israel", that God is saving.

Only pressing the point that only a few on this great forum, and myself, place ourselves wayyy below IITim.3:16, 'refutable and correctable.' ;)

You got one part of it dealing with the Mosaic law part which recognized and maintained the differences between the Jews and Gentiles; however missed the part that spiritually united them at Pentecost. Not until Pentecost were the Jews, Samaritans, and Gentiles placed upon the same level per the Holy Spirit. Took + 50 days more approximately from the Cross. :D

Old correctable, and refutable, Jack

btw At Pentecost, and after, no difference spiritually between the "remant of Israel" and the Una-Sancta, correct?
 
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