Sample of a Pastor who can teach Exegetically.

GenemZ · Jan 4, 2014

The original teachers of the Church taught from the languages of the Bible, not a translation. Here is an example of what takes place when a pastor is a full time student of the original languages.

Some things will not be readily understood if you are not familiar with the terms. ASK, and I will do my best to explain what was meant when he said something you do not understand.

Grace and peace...

R B Thieme Jr. GOSPEL PRESENTATION - YouTube

Tangible · Jan 4, 2014

Exegetical teaching is great for the bible class, but in the worship service there should be a proclamation of God's Word in both Law and Gospel. This can and should be based on and drawn from a scripture text, but the emphasis should not be on teaching the passage, but on the proclamation of God's Word.

ImaginaryDay · Jan 4, 2014

He lost me at Escrow and ROM chip.... All okay until then :sorry:

(Yes, I know what they mean, but I wasn't going to hang around to hear the rest of the "40 things God does for us when we believe").

GenemZ · Jan 4, 2014

apostolic34 said:
He lost me at Escrow and ROM chip.... All okay until then
(Yes, I know what they mean, but I wasn't going to hang around to hear the rest of the "40 things God does for us when we believe").

Escrow blessings are eternal blessings which now being held in escrow by the Lord awaiting distribution at the evaluation of believers. Some will receive eternal rewards= gold, silver, and precious stones. Some will not = wood, hay, and stubble.

One cannot reprogram or rewrite a standard ROM chip. ROM chip was his way of illustrating (at that time) how God has programed what is to be certain and unchangeable from is omniscience, which is to be according to His will, not ours.

God had determined what is to be regardless of what our choices are. Example, no matter what a believer chooses for, its been determined that he will receive his resurrection body and not burn in the Lake of Fire. What God did not predetermine by means of his own will, are the choices that a believer makes which will be used by God to determine the believer's eternal blessings/rewards above and beyond receiving a resurrection body.

The Lord is also holding now in escrow for all believers unique temporal blessings. That is, if the believer does God's will and enters in to the fulness of Christ, Jesus Christ as God's escrow officer will distribute prosperity blessings to that believer on earth.

God does not first create blessings for the believer after he does good. Those blessings we receive had been created for us before we were born. Created in eternity past by the Father, and are now being held in escrow by the Son. God wishes all believers the very best. And, with that in mind, had in eternity provided blessings unique for us before we were born. Those escrow blessings are to be released when the believer enters into maturity in Christ. Those who fail to do God's will, will never see their blessings. They remain being held in escrow. But, God provide for all believers great blessings!

At that time of the message computer technology was rather new and the rage. So, he chose a ROM chip as a means to illustrate his point. He had a good number scientists, engineers, PhD's and the like, in his congregation. So he went with that illustration at that time. Many of us had to catch up!

He forced us to learn new things all the time. I learned more under him than I did in any college. He was a phenomenal historian.

GenemZ · Jan 4, 2014

Tangible said:
Exegetical teaching is great for the bible class, but in the worship service there should be a proclamation of God's Word in both Law and Gospel. This can and should be based on and drawn from a scripture text, but the emphasis should not be on teaching the passage, but on the proclamation of God's Word.

I guess you stopped short. He gave an in depth Gospel presentation. It was why the poster on YouTube presented it.

but the emphasis should not be on teaching the passage, but on the proclamation of God's Word.

You should tell us about something, but never explain it?

Tangible · Jan 4, 2014

Properly dividing a text for the proclamation of the Word involves drawing out the law portions demonstrating how we all constantly fall short of God's standards, how we are hopelessly sinful in the eyes of God, how we all stand rightfully condemned to hell before a Holy God, and then drawing out the sweet comfort of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, how he lived a perfect life, died a perfect death, and rose again all for us and for our salvation, how because of Jesus Christ we stand completely righteous before God in Christ, and how God saves us because of the merits and worthiness of Jesus Christ alone, and not because of our works.

GenemZ · Jan 4, 2014

Tangible said:
Properly dividing a text for the proclamation of the Word involves drawing out the law portions demonstrating how we all constantly fall short of God's standards, how we are hopelessly sinful in the eyes of God, how we all stand rightfully condemned to hell before a Holy God, and then drawing out the sweet comfort of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, how he lived a perfect life, died a perfect death, and rose again all for us and for our salvation, how because of Jesus Christ we stand completely righteous before God in Christ, and how God saves us because of the merits and worthiness of Jesus Christ alone, and not because of our works.

Sir... that video was only a blurb. There are over 11,000 hours of teaching. And, he was teaching only about a certain aspect on salvation. I can appreciate what you are saying, too.

Tangible · Jan 4, 2014

It all goes to show your theology of sanctification.

If your pastor's sermon is like taking a college level course on the bible, then he believes that we are sanctified by increasing in knowledge, aka Rationalism.

If your pastor's sermon is aimed at producing transformed lives, then he believes that we are sanctified by functional works-righteousness, aka Moralism.

If your pastor's sermon is aimed at producing a euphoric emotional experience, then he believes that we are sanctified by feelings and emotional excitement, aka Mysticism.

Take all of these, in whatever proportions you deem appropriate, stir, and serve hot. Thus you have the recipe for more than ninety percent of American sermons, now and for at least the last one hundred years.

GenemZ · Jan 4, 2014

Tangible said:
It all goes to show your theology of sanctification.

If your pastor's sermon is like taking a college level course on the bible, then he believes that we are sanctified by increasing in knowledge, aka Rationalism.

I was talking about the level of intelligence its target is... not about having the same content. His messages are designed for those who have out grown their baby Christianity stage and desire to delve into a deeper understanding of what God's Word contains.

If your pastor's sermon is aimed at producing transformed lives, then he believes that we are sanctified by functional works-righteousness, aka Moralism.

If your pastor's sermon is aimed at producing a euphoric emotional experience, then he believes that we are sanctified by feelings and emotional excitement, aka Mysticism.

Take all of these, in whatever proportions you deem appropriate, stir, and serve hot. Thus you have the recipe for more than ninety percent of American sermons, now and for at least the last one hundred years.

Why you had to mention those I have no idea...

Sanctification requires the transformation of ones mind to overcome by finding oneself no longer being conformed by the world.

But! Without the habitual filling of the Spirit to give life to what is learned? All the Bible knowledge will not transform you. Instead, it can easily mold a believer into a form of religious rationalism.

There are many things that the Bible contains that can not be extracted and understood without the teacher having the right skills and training.

Colossians 2:1-3

For I want you to know how great a struggle I have on your behalf and for those who are at Laodicea, and for all those who have not personally seen my face, that their hearts may be encouraged, having been knit together in love, and attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding, resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Himself, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

There are hidden treasures in God's Word waiting to be discovered. God will supply the teachers who can dig them out... for those who's heart desire is to be growing in grace and knowledge. Now.. I said, grace and knowledge. Not just knowledge. When we move forward we should grow in the filling of the Spirit. If so, the knowledge we will gain will be caused by God's grace to have an increase in our capacity for God's sanctification in love, not dead emotional human type love.

Philippians 1:9

And this is my prayer: that your love may abound
more and more in knowledge and depth of insight.

God works within our true knowledge of his Word. Truth that He has designed for us to walk in by faith. His agape love will grow simultaneously with the fulfillment of our desire for sound knowledge and understanding. It increases according to God's will.

..attaining to all the wealth that comes from the full assurance of understanding,
resulting in a true knowledge of God’s mystery, that is, Christ Him self, in whom
are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Grace and peace...

ptomwebster · Jan 4, 2014

Some students need milk , other want meat. I prefer meat to milk.

GenemZ · Jan 4, 2014

ptomwebster said:
Some students need milk , other want meat. I prefer meat to milk.

Here is an explanation of something mentioned in the video...

DIVINE DYNASPHERE – This is an ingenious teaching device developed by R.B. Thieme, Jr. using the Greek word for power (dunamis) in the Locative of Sphere.

“Dunamis” is the root for some of our English words, i.e. dynamic, dynamite. By combining the word power (dynamis) and the Locative (sphere) you get “dynasphere.”

There are two power spheres (dynaspheres) mentioned in Scripture: divine and cosmic. The divine power sphere belongs to God, the cosmic dynasphere belongs to Satan.

As believers, we are always living in one of these power spheres. When we have confessed our sins to God (1 John 1:9), we are living in the divine dynasphere and are influenced by the Holy Spirit; when we refuse to confess our sins, we are living in the cosmic dynasphere and are influenced by the world, the flesh, and the devil.

At the judgment seat of Christ, all believers will be rewarded for the time they spent living in the divine = producing gold, silver, and precious stones. (1 Cor 3:11-13)

Grace and peace...

Wordkeeper · Jan 5, 2014

The content of the speaker's teaching in the video does show his theology of sanctification. The question is if sanctification is the only content to be preached.

Paul teaches that there are different things to be preached at different times. When he evangelizes, he is careful not to rob the Gospel of its power, preaching only the requirements for being allowed entry into the community of God's people, being found righteous, justified, acceptable. This requirement being that one believe God's grace (gift, char is) consisted of giving men rest from trying to be found acceptable , by abiding in Christ, believing the Cross paid for all sin, confirmed by the Resurrection:

1 Corinthians 2
1And when I came to you, brethren, I did not come with superiority of speech or of wisdom, proclaiming to you the testimony of God. 2For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified. 3I was with you in weakness and in fear and in much trembling, 4and my message and my preaching were not in persuasive words of wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 5so that your faith would not rest on the wisdom of men, but on the power of God.

However, he also teaches the preaching of what are the requirements for sanctification amongst the mature:

6Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory;

9but just as it is written,
“THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD,
AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN,
ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM.”

He then goes on to teach HOW a person is sanctified, by responding to the spiritual side of his constituency and not the fleshly side:

1 Corinthians 6
9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

12All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything. 13Food is for the stomach and the stomach is for food, but God will do away with both of them. Yet the body is not for immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord is for the body. 14Now God has not only raised the Lord, but will also raise us up through His power. 15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take away the members of Christ and make them members of a prostitute? May it never be! 16Or do you not know that the one who joins himself to a prostitute is one body with her? For He says, “THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH.” 17But the one who joins himself to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 18Flee immorality. Every other sin that a man commits is outside the body, but the immoral man sins against his own body. 19Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.

Next we will critique the Lutheran methodology and then the methodology from Genez...

GenemZ · Jan 5, 2014

Wordkeeper said:
The content of the speaker's teaching in the video does show his theology of sanctification. The question is if sanctification is the only content to be preached.

That video was only a short snippet of an hour long lesson. Over the years he must have dedicated at least 200 hours of covering the doctrine of sanctification from various perspectives. At one time many pastors ordered his messages to form their own thinking with, since not many are highly skilled in the original languages.

Wordkeeper · Jan 5, 2014

First, let us test this assertion:

Quote:
As believers, we are always living in one of these power spheres. When we have confessed our sins to God (1 John 1:9), we are living in the divine dynasphere and are influenced by the Holy Spirit;

In other words, when we confess our sins, the Holy Spirit convicts us.

Here is a different explanation from Dr Daniel Wallace, who is quite well known, unlike Thieme:

Quote
Second, confession of sin involves recognition of our inadequacy and our need. When I confess, "Dear Lord, I confess my sins. And I promise, I'll never do that again!" I am being totally dishonest with God. In the same breath we tell God we screwed up and that we have the ability to keep from blowing it again! But didn't Jesus say, "Apart from me you can do nothing"? And didn't Paul tell us that "no one does good, not even one"--and that even believers constantly "fall short of the glory of God"?

On the one hand, it is good to express shock and horror over our sin before God. (Conviction!). But when we express disbelief ("How could I have ever done that?") then we are dangerously close to thinking that we have the ability apart from the Holy Spirit to get back on track. Fundamentally, confession is being honest with God about who we are.

https://bible.org/article/honest-god-or-god-not-pit-stop-1-john-15-10

In other words, living by the spiritual side of our constituency MEANS RECOGNISING our dependence on God. We are justified by faith AND sanctified by faith (dependence).

GenemZ · Jan 6, 2014

Wordkeeper said:
First, let us test this assertion:

Quote:
As believers, we are always living in one of these power spheres. When we have confessed our sins to God (1 John 1:9), we are living in the divine dynasphere and are influenced by the Holy Spirit;

In other words, when we confess our sins, the Holy Spirit convicts us.

If we confess our sins the Holy Spirit immediately enters us into fellowship. The blood of Christ clears us of conviction if you understand what it has accomplished. At the moment we recognize our sin we may feel conviction, but once the Holy Spirit and you are back in fellowship His only concern is that you become occupied with Christ. Sin must be learned to be dealt with by growing believers. But, it should become a routine, like daily hygiene. For that is what confession is. Cleaning up and staying clean before God.

Here is a different explanation from Dr Daniel Wallace, who is quite well known, unlike Thieme:
Second, confession of sin involves recognition of our inadequacy and our need. When I confess, "Dear Lord, I confess my sins. And I promise, I'll never do that again!" I am being totally dishonest with God. In the same breath we tell God we screwed up and that we have the ability to keep from blowing it again! But didn't Jesus say, "Apart from me you can do nothing"? And didn't Paul tell us that "no one does good, not even one"--and that even believers constantly "fall short of the glory of God"?

He teaches nothing different than R.B. Thieme. Can you judge his teaching by only hearing a few minutes.

I would think Dr. Wallace knows who RB Thieme was. Both Hal Lindsay and Chuck Swindoll were accepted to Dallas Theological Seminary on the merit of his letters of recommendation, written by RB Thieme to Dallas Theological Seminary. Both those men did not have the academic qualifications for acceptance. His letters were good enough for them. Both men studied under Thieme. Thieme graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary (summa cum laude). He studied under Lewis Sperry Chafer.

It is true... RB Thieme is not well known in mainstream churchianity because he is not for the average believer who desires mainstream churchianity. Yet he is well known throughout the world by those who are very serious students of the Bible.

Look, lets not get into a competitive battle here which you just introduced into the discussion by mentioning about who is more popular. Thieme is for students who want to gain in depth that only a seminary level teaching can provide, without attending seminary. He is not for everyone. Please, relax. I thought I would expose others here to him in case someone is seeking this level of teaching.

Grace and peace...

Wordkeeper · Jan 7, 2014

The few minutes exposed a wrong teaching. Exposing wrong teaching is what we do here. As a wise soul once remarked, It's called debating, deal.

You can't be contradictory in one area and compensate in further teaching down the line. Unless you're Muslim, and believe in abrogation. It's what makes all such teachings nonsensical, breaking the law of non-contradiction. Also called the logical fallacy of the excluded middle, principium tertii exclusi.

1 Corinthians 3
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each mans work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each mans work. 14If any mans work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Jeremiah 23
28The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain? declares the LORD. 29Is not My word like fire? declares the LORD, and like a hammer which shatters a rock? 30Therefore behold, I am against the prophets, declares the LORD, who steal My words from each other. 31Behold, I am against the prophets, declares the LORD, who use their tongues and declare, The Lord declares.

genez said:
If we confess our sins the Holy Spirit immediately enters us into fellowship. The blood of Christ clears us of conviction if you understand what it has accomplished. At the moment we recognize our sin we may feel conviction, but once the Holy Spirit and you are back in fellowship His only concern is that you become occupied with Christ. Sin must be learned to be dealt with by growing believers. But, it should become a routine, like daily hygiene. For that is what confession is. Cleaning up and staying clean before God.

He teaches nothing different than R.B. Thieme. Can you judge his teaching by only hearing a few minutes.

I would think Dr. Wallace knows who RB Thieme was. Both Hal Lindsay and Chuck Swindoll were accepted to Dallas Theological Seminary on the merit of his letters of recommendation, written by RB Thieme to Dallas Theological Seminary. Both those men did not have the academic qualifications for acceptance. His letters were good enough for them. Both men studied under Thieme. Thieme graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary (summa cum laude). He studied under Lewis Sperry Chafer.

It is true... RB Thieme is not well known in mainstream churchianity because he is not for the average believer who desires mainstream churchianity. Yet he is well known throughout the world by those who are very serious students of the Bible.

Look, lets not get into a competitive battle here which you just introduced into the discussion by mentioning about who is more popular. Thieme is for students who want to gain in depth that only a seminary level teaching can provide, without attending seminary. He is not for everyone. Please, relax. I thought I would expose others here to him in case someone is seeking this level of teaching.

Grace and peace...

GenemZ · Jan 8, 2014

Wordkeeper said:
The few minutes exposed a wrong teaching. Exposing wrong teaching is what we do here. As a wise soul once remarked, It's called debating, deal.

You can't be contradictory in one area and compensate in further teaching down the line. Unless you're Muslim, and believe in abrogation. It's what makes all such teachings nonsensical, breaking the law of non-contradiction. Also called the logical fallacy of the excluded middle, principium tertii exclusi.

1 Corinthians 3
10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each mans work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each mans work. 14If any mans work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any mans work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Jeremiah 23
28The prophet who has a dream may relate his dream, but let him who has My word speak My word in truth. What does straw have in common with grain? declares the LORD. 29Is not My word like fire? declares the LORD, and like a hammer which shatters a rock? 30Therefore behold, I am against the prophets, declares the LORD, who steal My words from each other. 31Behold, I am against the prophets, declares the LORD, who use their tongues and declare, The Lord declares.

You make a claim. Then say a lot of words. And, prove nothing. But, you give the appearance of justifying your claim by saying so much.

Take your bullhorn and go find another corner, please.

drstevej · Jan 8, 2014

genez said:
I would think Dr. Wallace knows who RB Thieme was. Both Hal Lindsay and Chuck Swindoll were accepted to Dallas Theological Seminary on the merit of his letters of recommendation, written by RB Thieme to Dallas Theological Seminary. Both those men did not have the academic qualifications for acceptance. His letters were good enough for them. Both men studied under Thieme. Thieme graduated from Dallas Theological Seminary (summa cum laude). He studied under Lewis Sperry Chafer.

I am a graduate (76) of DTS.

Lindsey was not accepted into the ThM program, he only received a certificate. Swindoll graduated Magna Cum Laude from DTS.

Recommendations are taken into consideration but alone are not THE sole determination.

When I was a student at DTS (72-76) Thieme was telling his students (those he had recommended attend DTS) which profs to study under and which ones to avoid. They kept to themselves.

RBT's early publications are quite good. Later on he became strident and combative. So, IMO, Colonel RBT is a mixed bag, Caveat Emptor.

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whatever-happened-to-r-b-thieme

Willie T · Jan 8, 2014

"God gave some, to be teachers."

But this guy wasn't among them.

GenemZ · Jan 9, 2014

So be it...

Sample of a Pastor who can teach Exegetically.

Well-Known Member

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato

We Live Here

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato

Well-Known Member

Decision Theology = Ex Opere Operato

Well-Known Member

Senior Member

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Well-Known Member

"The crowd always chooses Barabbas."

St. Petersburg Vineyard

Well-Known Member

Similar threads