map of the ocean floor

dad said:

God launched the bible. We also have ancient history that does agree in some respects with key differences. In modern science we ignore all this and use belief only. A belief that the past and future just must be the same laws and nature. Why? Gosh, that's all we ever saw.


It is their cop out, their deus ex machina. There is no evidence what so ever for their same state past. None. Really. Their only response is "you can't prove me wrong" and we just really believe it no matter what and no reason is needed.


The bible does lay a framework for us, that can serve as a key to comprehending how different it was in some ways.
What light does depends on where light is and when light is.

I think it is time for honest men of science to stop the belief based, anti bible, anti reason, fanatical foot stomping, pulpit pounding demonism, that has come to be called part of science today!

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dad, how many times do we have to point out that your illogical worship of the Bible is blasphemous? It also goes against the Ten Commandments. The Bible is clearly not the word of God, it has thousands of flaws in it. And you keep forgetting that.

Oh wait, I keep forgetting that you are one of those very weak faithed Christians that is all or nothing. Of course we all know that you don't really believe all of the Bible, you only believe the parts that you like.

dad said:

The very fact that a rapid change in nature occurs means stuff changed fast..just not our stuff as is now.

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If the stuff in the past is so completely different from the stuff in the present that no methods can be used to extrapolate the former from the latter, how do you determine that anything changed rapidly based on evidence from the present?

Subduction Zone said:

dad, how many times do we have to point out that your illogical worship of the Bible is blasphemous?

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Cut the foolish talk.

It also goes against the Ten Commandments. The Bible is clearly not the word of God, it has thousands of flaws in it. And you keep forgetting that.

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Jesus disagreed with you. Every jot and tittle of what you say.

Oh wait, I keep forgetting that you are one of those very weak faithed Christians that is all or nothing. Of course we all know that you don't really believe all of the Bible, you only believe the parts that you like.

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Oh? So name some parts I disbelieve because I no likey?

Strathos said:

If the stuff in the past is so completely different from the stuff in the present that no methods can be used to extrapolate the former from the latter, how do you determine that anything changed rapidly based on evidence from the present?

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YOU can't!!! That is why you just believe.

I can, because I avail myself of God's great cheat sheet.

dad said:

Cut the foolish talk.

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How is that foolish? It has been shown to you countless times how flawed your Bible is. It has hundreds of self contradictions. It has failed prophecies. It has no true prophecies. It has bad history and made up stories. If a God wrote such a piece of garbage would that not make him the most incompetent God in the history of the universe?

It is blasphemy to make your claim.

Jesus disagreed with you. Every jot and tittle of what you say.

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Prove it. Even Jesus never said anything on that order even in your terribly flawed version. At best he only said the laws of the Bible have not changed.

Oh? So name some parts I disbelieve because I no likey?

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It is hard to say. But I doubt if you ever stoned any of your children for being disobedient. What sort of clothes do you own? Have you ever worked on a Saturday? There are all sorts of crazy things in the Bible that no one believes.

Subduction Zone said:

How is that foolish? It has been shown to you countless times how flawed your Bible is.

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Perhaps the doubts you raised carry weight in your heart and mind. They don't at all with me. Why would I care if someone doubted Peter walked on water?? Not like their opinion matters at all. Why would I care if some doubted manna existed? Not like they have any ability at all to back up their doubts. None. They are just lies that lurk in shadows.

It has hundreds of self contradictions. It has failed prophecies.

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I know better though. Maybe try to find a weak mind or something to pretend your doubts have the least merit.

It is blasphemy to make your claim.

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Try to learn how to use words correctly.

Prove it. Even Jesus never said anything on that order even in your terribly flawed version. At best he only said the laws of the Bible have not changed.

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He said, for example, that if men did not believe Moses (that includes flood and creation by the way) and the prophets, that they would not even believe one raised from the dead. He verified the Scripture. He sealed it as true. Done deal. He then went on to prove it by defeating death itself.

It is hard to say. But I doubt if you ever stoned any of your children for being disobedient. What sort of clothes do you own? Have you ever worked on a Saturday? There are all sorts of crazy things in the Bible that no one believes.

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God never told me not to work on Saturday. Kind of wish He had!

dad said:

Perhaps the doubts you raised carry weight in your heart and mind. They don't at all with me. Why would I care if someone doubted Peter walked on water?? Not like their opinion matters at all. Why would I care if some doubted manna existed? Not like they have any ability at all to back up their doubts. None. They are just lies that lurk in shadows.
I know better though. Maybe try to find a weak mind or something to pretend your doubts have the least merit.

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What doubts? They are sureties. If you don't care why are you debating here? Try to be honest once in your life. And how soon you forget. Don't you remember how terribly failed the Tyre prophecy is, or how Luke's Christmas story does not match real world history? A poll, he was off by what? Wast it ten years? And worse a poll where everyone had to go to his father's city? Please, we don't even try that now, how were the Romans going to try that back then.

Sorry dad as usual you lost. It does not matter what you believe, the facts don't match your book of myth.

Try to learn how to use words correctly.

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How is your misuse of the Bible not blasphemy?

Nope, you are still wrong. To try to claim that such a shoddy work is the word of God implies that you believe in a terribly incompetent god.

But that is your choice. I will just remind you of it now and then.

He said, for example, that if men did not believe Moses (that includes flood and creation by the way) and the prophets, that they would not even believe one raised from the dead. He verified the Scripture. He sealed it as true. Done deal. He then went on to prove it by defeating death itself.

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You forgot a link to the verses. And no, death defeated him. Who knows? In a hundred years we could have equivalent myths about Elvis. You need a heck of a lot better evidence than what you have supplied to make that claim stick.

God never told me not to work on Saturday. Kind of wish He had!

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Actually he did if you believe the Bible. And I see at least one part of it that dad does not believe. Once again we have a Christian that does not follow the Bible. Nowhere does it say that working on the Sabbath is okay for non-Jews.

dad said:

YOU can't!!! That is why you just believe.

I can, because I avail myself of God's great cheat sheet.

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None of your Split/Merge dadology is from the bible. You think you speak for God. You don't.

Sectio Aurea said:

Dont you think that if evolution could be disproven, it would be disproven by now?

Any scientist seeking fame and fortune has had 150 years to do so, yet all the evidence found thus far only supports evolution.

But I'm waiting with baited breath for you...

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You can't disprove something that has never been proven.

mathetes123 said:

You can't disprove something that has never been proven.

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Wrong. Nothing in science is ever assumed to be proven. Theories are accepted as provisionally true since it is considered that the author has made his point. The fact that he may be wrong is always kept as an open possibility. That applies to all theories of science including the theories of gravity.

A theory can be shown to be wrong. It is never assumed to be correct. But if a theory was actually absolutely correct you would not be able to show that it was wrong. Now Darwin's theory has had some minor tweaks over the years but overall it has never been debunked, or shown to be wrong, in over 150 years of tests.

Subduction Zone said:

Wrong. Nothing in science is ever assumed to be proven. Theories are accepted as provisionally true since it is considered that the author has made his point. The fact that he may be wrong is always kept as an open possibility. That applies to all theories of science including the theories of gravity.

A theory can be shown to be wrong. It is never assumed to be correct. But if a theory was actually absolutely correct you would not be able to show that it was wrong. Now Darwin's theory has had some minor tweaks over the years but overall it has never been debunked, or shown to be wrong, in over 150 years of tests.

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So in other words, you cannot claim it has been proven.

mathetes123 said:

So in other words, you cannot claim it has been proven.

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No one has. At least not scientifically. Now in a court of law the evidence is more than strong enough to give the life on Earth a "guilty" verdict if it was accused of evolving. The amount of evidence for evolution is greater and stronger than the evidence ever presented for any murderer ever accused in a court of law.

So in a colloquial sense, yes the theory of evolution is proven. Just like the idea of gravity is proven in a colloquial sense. In a scientific sense nothing is proven.

And of course what is worse for creationists certain concepts have been shown to be wrong, such as a young Earth, or a worldwide flood.

Subduction Zone said:

No one has. At least not scientifically. Now in a court of law the evidence is more than strong enough to give the life on Earth a "guilty" verdict if it was accused of evolving. The amount of evidence for evolution is greater and stronger than the evidence ever presented for any murderer ever accused in a court of law.

So in a colloquial sense, yes the theory of evolution is proven. Just like the idea of gravity is proven in a colloquial sense. In a scientific sense nothing is proven.

And of course what is worse for creationists certain concepts have been shown to be wrong, such as a young Earth, or a worldwide flood.

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The same has been said about the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Why do you reject that evidence?

mathetes123 said:

The same has been said about the evidence for the resurrection of Jesus Christ. Why do you reject that evidence?

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No, only fools have claimed that. Most of the so called evidence for Jesus would be tossed out of court as hearsay at best. There are no "eyewitness" accounts of him. All of the Gospels are second or third hand stories at best. And even if there were eyewitness reports that is the weakest sort of evidence in a court. It is too heavily biased by the observers. Scientific evidence is still the surest, it can be reexamined time after time.

So do you have any questions or are you merely spamming the thread with errors?

ETA: And the reason that I have rejected the so called evidence for the resurrection of Jesus is because the evidence is so incredibly weak.

dad said:

YOU can't!!! That is why you just believe.

I can, because I avail myself of God's great cheat sheet.

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But you just said that the geological evidence present today supports your idea...

Strathos said:

But you just said that the geological evidence present today supports your idea...

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I would say it does. But when we are talking about dyed in the wool evos, they insist on ignoring certain things and invoking certain other things.

That is why they can't. Since I use God's word to try to sort through the mess, I can.

Split Rock said:

None of your Split/Merge dadology is from the bible. You think you speak for God. You don't.

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You may have an opinion. I doubt anyone expects you to back it up. Obviously the different past is a biblical reality.

Subduction Zone said:

Don't you remember how terribly failed the Tyre prophecy is, or how Luke's Christmas story does not match real world history?

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In the instances where there are deeper spiritual truths involved, such as when the day of the Lord is involved (future), or inadequate records of pagans, all you do is talk about a shadowy zone, that is not fully known. It is always in those dark zones that doubts exist. Not in the light of day!

Actually he did if you believe the Bible. And I see at least one part of it that dad does not believe. Once again we have a Christian that does not follow the Bible. Nowhere does it say that working on the Sabbath is okay for non-Jews.

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Cut the nonsense, no one commanded Christians to not work on Saturday.

dad said:

In the instances where there are deeper spiritual truths involved, such as when the day of the Lord is involved (future), or inadequate records of pagans, all you do is talk about a shadowy zone, that is not fully known. It is always in those dark zones that doubts exist. Not in the light of day!

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I accept your admission of defeat.

Cut the nonsense, no one commanded Christians to not work on Saturday.

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Sure, it is in the Bible. Didn't you ever read that book?

Subduction Zone said:

I accept your admission of defeat.

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The defeat of the natural mind being able to comprehend things that are beyond it's little scope is a built in feature of God's word. The retreat into the shadows is expected. Predicted. Inevitable.

Sure, it is in the Bible. Didn't you ever read that book?

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I must have missed where it tells Christians to no work on Saturday.