The Coming of Elijah and the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD

swainkas · Dec 19, 2013

The very last words of the Old Testament are as follows:

Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse. Malachi 4:5-6

Please note that these are the very last words of the Old Testament. They describe the coming of the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD and associate it with the coming of Elijah. The Great and Terrible Day of the LORD is assumed by many today to be the final event on earths eschatological time clock. But according to Jesus, it has already occurred. In the following statements, Jesus says that John the Baptist was Elijah.

And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. Matthew 11:14 NASB

And He answered and said, Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist. Matthew 17:11-13 NASB

As most of you know by now, my views are very Christ-centric and as such because Jesus says something, I take serious note of it. By Jesus making these claims about John the Baptist, and by equating Johns coming with the coming of Elijah, I see no other way to interpret them than to conclude that Jesus was claiming His own coming was in fact the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD. How else can these verses be interpreted?

Your comments are welcome!

Portions taken from Heresy, by Keith Swainson

ebedmelech · Dec 19, 2013

I think you're going a bit far with what Jesus said. The passage is speaking of Elijah...sure enough...but it said nothing at all about "the great and terrible day of the Lord".

I'd like to know how you make your conclusion that Jesus' coming in the flesh, was that? Jesus certainly didn't say it.

confused:

Interplanner · Dec 19, 2013

The great and terrible day of the Lord is the day of wrath which was indeed put on Christ in the Gospel. "In the Gospel, the wrath of God is revealed..." says Rom 1. Once again, it is not the 'great and terrible day of the Lord' as anyone thought, just as the new temple was not how anyone thought, etc.

swainkas · Dec 19, 2013

ebedmelech said:
I think you're going a bit far with what Jesus said. The passage is speaking of Elijah...sure enough...but it said nothing at all about "the great and terrible day of the Lord".

I'd like to know how you make your conclusion that Jesus' coming in the flesh, was that? Jesus certainly didn't say it.

confused:

Why else would Jesus bring up Elijah? Jesus was complimenting John and then says John is Elijah. Why say something meaningless? I don't think it was meaningless. Like I pointed out, Elijah was expected to come before the great and terrible day of the LORD. This expectation is so strong for the Jews that they still leave a plate out for Elijah during Passover.

Though Jesus doesn't mention the day of the LORD, His mentioning Elijah does so by default. Otherwise He would simply be speaking gibberish, and I'm sure you would agree with me that He wouldn't do that.

ebedmelech · Dec 19, 2013

swainkas said:
Why else would Jesus bring up Elijah? Jesus was complimenting John and then says John is Elijah. Why say something meaningless? I don't think it was meaningless. Like I pointed out, Elijah was expected to come before the great and terrible day of the LORD. This expectation is so strong for the Jews that they still leave a plate out for Elijah during Passover.

Though Jesus doesn't mention the day of the LORD, His mentioning Elijah does so by default. Otherwise He would simply be speaking gibberish, and I'm sure you would agree with me that He wouldn't do that.

No one said it was meaningless. I too, believe John the Baptist came as a *type* of Elijah. That's clear from the text.

The question is...how do you arrive at the conclusion that Jesus coming as messiah is "the great and terrible day of the Lord"?

That's the question.

L0U · Dec 19, 2013

Do you think that maybe the Church is to act in the power and annointing of Elijah?

".....notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

L0U · Dec 20, 2013

Anyone?

Interplanner · Dec 20, 2013

EbedM, they could easily think of the Messiah's coming as a great and terrible day if they read Dan 9. I think Caiaphas did (Jn 11 and 18) and tried to preclude it. Josephus knew it was coming.

ebedmelech · Dec 20, 2013

L0U said:
Do you think that maybe the Church is to act in the power and annointing of Elijah?

".....notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he."

I think you're onto something LOU! It take two witnesses to validate a charge of death.

I still work on "the two witnesses" still...so I'm not really sure of them yet.

This I do know...they are not Moses and Elijah...or Moses and Enoch.

ebedmelech · Dec 20, 2013

Interplanner said:
EbedM, they could easily think of the Messiah's coming as a great and terrible day if they read Dan 9. I think Caiaphas did (Jn 11 and 18) and tried to preclude it. Josephus knew it was coming.

If you're saying that Jesus crucifixion is "the great and terrible day of the Lord", that I can accept. Nothing was that terrible.

Inter, you have got to loosen up your "personal forum lingo" and realize you're talking in a forum...be less personal in your response and more "forum generic".

keras · Dec 20, 2013

Why should those two overt preterists, Interplanner and ebedmelech hold the floor?
If anyone believes that the glorious return of Jesus is a 'shocking and terrible Day, then their understanding is very suspect. No, it is very evident from all the prophetic scripture, that there is to come two Days of the Lord. At the Return, that is referred to as 'The great Day of the Sovereign Lord' REB. Or 'the great Day of God Almighty'. NIV. Rev. 16:14
The Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, will be a sudden and unexpected event - 'coming like a thief' upon the whole world. It will be as 2 Peter 3:7...the Day of judgement by fire, when the godless will be destroyed. This will fulfil Psalm 83, Isaiah 17:1 and over 100 other prophesies detailing this forthcoming 'fire from the heavens', most clearly told to us in Isaiah 30:25-28...the sun will shine with seven times its normal strength... Also Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace....
The only explanation for all of these prophesies is a coronal mass ejection, a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude. Scientists warn of the likelihood of this happening, they say; not if, but when it will happen. Only by the fact that the sun was not facing us at the time of ejection, we have avoided being hit before now. But at the right moment 'the Lord will rain fiery coals and scorching winds upon the wicked... Psalm 11:6
Be aware and be prepared, or remain in the dark about end time events.

ebedmelech · Dec 20, 2013

keras said:
Why should those two overt preterists, Interplanner and ebedmelech hold the floor?
If anyone believes that the glorious return of Jesus is a 'shocking and terrible Day, then their understanding is very suspect. No, it is very evident from all the prophetic scripture, that there is to come two Days of the Lord. At the Return, that is referred to as 'The great Day of the Sovereign Lord' REB. Or 'the great Day of God Almighty'. NIV. Rev. 16:14
The Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, will be a sudden and unexpected event - 'coming like a thief' upon the whole world. It will be as 2 Peter 3:7...the Day of judgement by fire, when the godless will be destroyed. This will fulfil Psalm 83, Isaiah 17:1 and over 100 other prophesies detailing this forthcoming 'fire from the heavens', most clearly told to us in Isaiah 30:25-28...the sun will shine with seven times its normal strength... Also Malachi 4:1 The Day comes, burning like a furnace....
The only explanation for all of these prophesies is a coronal mass ejection, a sunstrike of unprecedented magnitude. Scientists warn of the likelihood of this happening, they say; not if, but when it will happen. Only by the fact that the sun was not facing us at the time of ejection, we have avoided being hit before now. But at the right moment 'the Lord will rain fiery coals and scorching winds upon the wicked... Psalm 11:6
Be aware and be prepared, or remain in the dark about end time events.

I think you should check yourself...because you calling me a "preterist doesn't mean a thing.

Do you know of a day worse than the Lord Jesus dying on a cross having the sins of the whole world poured out on Him? If you do...tell me about it!

It was a great and terrible day because as is said...John the Baptist came to prepare the way for Jesus before that day...and Jesus fulfilled it.

There is another great and terrible day of the Lord coming...but the one the OP refers to did come...or you wouldn't be saved!

Interplanner · Dec 20, 2013

keras, everyone is overt, either one thing or another. Otherwise they are silent! But just keep to the content, and make good conclusions.

L0U · Dec 20, 2013

ebedmelech said:
Do you know of a day worse than the Lord Jesus dying on a cross having the sins of the whole world poured out on Him? If you do...tell me about it!!

The Day of the Lord that comes upon the whole world.

keras · Dec 20, 2013

Lord, Arise now and set Your Hand to the Task.

Psalm 10:1-11 Lord: Why do You hide Yourself in times of trouble? The godless boast of their plans, but their ways are always devious. They are full of deceit and violence, reviling Your people and thinking: Their God has forgotten, He sees nothing.
Psalm 10:12-15 Lord; break the power of the wicked and evil peoples, call them to account. Arise now and set Your Hand to the task. Do not forget Your people. The godless reject You, they think You will take no action. Lord, You see how they love terror and death, we commit ourselves to You – the Light and salvation of Your people.

Psalm 9:7-14 The Lord will judge all peoples with justice. He is a tower of strength for the oppressed. Show us Your favour, do not ignore our cry for help, then we will praise You and proclaim Your mighty deeds, for You do not abandon those who acknowledge Your Name and seek You in faith.
Psalm 9:15-20 The nations are trapped in a pit of their own making, entangled in their own net. The Lord will display His power and all the peoples who refuse to acknowledge the Living God, will depart to hell. The hopes and prayers of Your people will be realized, as You fulfil Your promises to them. For the Lord WILL arise and judge the nations, they will know they are only mortal.
Psalm 10:17-18 You hear, Lord, the supplications of the humble, support them and bring redress. Answer now the prayers of the righteous, so that those who promote terror receive their just deserts.

Psalm 9:2-6 We will praise You, Lord with all our hearts, we will rejoice and exult in You. For You have upheld our rights. You have rebuked the nations and overwhelmed the godless peoples. They are defeated, they fall and perish, totally wiped out, even the memory of them is lost.
Psalm 10:16 The evil peoples have gone from Your holy Land and the Lord will reign forever! Deut. 32:43 Ref: REB. Some verses abridged and paraphrased.
Scripture references:
The Lord WILL arise and judge the nations, Psalm 94:1-7, Isaiah 33:10-12, The Lord WILL display His power: A massive CME sunstrike will cause all the prophesied effects. Isaiah 30:26-28
The prayers of His people WILL be realized, 1 Peter 1:5, as You punish the ungodly nations. Isaiah 13:9-13, Revelation 6:12-17 Those peoples and nations who are full of deceit and violence, Psalm 144:7-8
Those who love terror and death, Ezekiel 35:6, WILL fall and perish, they WILL depart to hell. Isaiah 66:15-16
The evil peoples have all gone from Your holy Land. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 30:2-9
Your people WILL rejoice and praise the Lord, Jeremiah 33:6 & 25, as they gather and return to their heritage. Isaiah 40:1-3, Ezekiel 20:34, Zechariah 10:8-10, Psalm 107:1-3

The Lord WILL reign forever! Firstly the Shekinah Glory will return to the new Temple, Ezekiel 43:4, then later, Jesus will reign for 1000 years. Revelation 20:6 Finally, God and the Lamb will be eternally throned in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 22:1-5

keras · Dec 20, 2013

Sorry, I thought #15 has not gone in and can't seem to be able to delete this one.

Lord, Arise now and set Your Hand to the Task.

Psalm 10:1-11 Lord: Why do You hide Yourself in times of trouble? The godless boast of their plans, but their ways are always devious. They are full of deceit and violence, reviling Your people and thinking: Their God has forgotten, He sees nothing.
Psalm 10:12-15 Lord; break the power of the wicked and evil peoples, call them to account. Arise now and set Your Hand to the task. Do not forget Your people. The godless reject You, they think You will take no action. Lord, You see how they love terror and death, we commit ourselves to You – the Light and salvation of Your people.

Psalm 9:7-14 The Lord will judge all peoples with justice. He is a tower of strength for the oppressed. Show us Your favour, do not ignore our cry for help, then we will praise You and proclaim Your mighty deeds, for You do not abandon those who acknowledge Your Name and seek You in faith.
Psalm 9:15-20 The nations are trapped in a pit of their own making, entangled in their own net. The Lord will display His power and all the peoples who refuse to acknowledge the Living God, will depart to hell. The hopes and prayers of Your people will be realized, as You fulfil Your promises to them. For the Lord WILL arise and judge the nations, they will know they are only mortal.
Psalm 10:17-18 You hear, Lord, the supplications of the humble, support them and bring redress. Answer now the prayers of the righteous, so that those who promote terror receive their just deserts.

Psalm 9:2-6 We will praise You, Lord with all our hearts, we will rejoice and exult in You. For You have upheld our rights. You have rebuked the nations and overwhelmed the godless peoples. They are defeated, they fall and perish, totally wiped out, even the memory of them is lost.
Psalm 10:16 The evil peoples have gone from Your holy Land and the Lord will reign forever! Deut. 32:43 Ref: REB. Some verses abridged and paraphrased.
Scripture references:
The Lord WILL arise and judge the nations, Psalm 94:1-7, Isaiah 33:10-12
The Lord WILL display His power: A massive CME sunstrike will cause all the prophesied effects. Isaiah 30:26-28
The prayers of His people WILL be realized, 1 Peter 1:5, as You punish the ungodly nations. Isaiah 13:9-13, Revelation 6:12-17
Those peoples and nations who are full of deceit and violence, Psalm 144:7-8, those who love terror and death, Ezekiel 35:6, WILL fall and perish, they WILL depart to hell. Isaiah 66:15-16
The evil peoples have all gone from Your holy Land. Jeremiah 12:14, Ezekiel 30:2-9
Your people WILL rejoice and praise the Lord, Jeremiah 33:6 & 25, as they gather and return to their heritage. Isaiah 40:1-3, Ezekiel 20:34, Zechariah 10:8-10, Psalm 107:1-3

The Lord WILL reign forever! Firstly the Shekinah Glory will return to the new Temple, Ezekiel 43:4, then later, Jesus will reign for 1000 years. Revelation 20:6 Finally, God and the Lamb will be eternally throned in the New Jerusalem. Revelation 22:1-5

ebedmelech · Dec 20, 2013

L0U said:
The Day of the Lord that comes upon the whole world.

So answer this one. Was the day of the Lord on Jesus when he bore the sins of the whole world...did he not take our judgment upon himself?

Indeed "it was a day of the Lord"...God put our judgment on His only Son.

keras · Dec 21, 2013

ebed, I don't disagree with you, the crucifixion could be called another Day of the Lord. Its main significance was the redemption of mankind. But judgement will come to everyone for their beliefs and deeds. 1 Cor 3:13-15
You admit there will be another Day of the Lord at the Return, when He destroys the attacking armies of the AC by the sword of His Word. In no way does that event match the over 100 prophesies that describe the Lord's Day of vengeance and wrath. This is the 6th seal, and to say that comes at the Return is simply ludicrous because it breaks the clear sequence as given in Revelation. You can't unroll a scroll until you have removed the seals!
It is high time everyone realized that now we are so close to the time the end time events will happen, to not have a proper understanding of them, makes us very foolish indeed. We have the Bible, God has given all the information needed. Denial, belief in wrong theories, or its all past now, leaves us 'in the dark'. What will the Lord say to us when we stand in His presence? Luke 21:36b

L0U · Dec 21, 2013

ebedmelech said:
So answer this one. Was the day of the Lord on Jesus when he bore the sins of the whole world...did he not take our judgment upon himself?

Indeed "it was a day of the Lord"...God put our judgment on His only Son.

He took the judgment for all the sin from BC to AD presently.

But I believe there remains the Day of the Lord coming upon the whole world; a day of wrath that will make 70 AD look like a bucket of sand on a beach by comparison.

spiritandtruth2 · Dec 21, 2013

swainkas said:
The very last words of the Old Testament are as follows:

Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD. He will restore the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers, so that I will not come and smite the land with a curse. Malachi 4:5-6

Please note that these are the very last words of the Old Testament. They describe the coming of the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD and associate it with the coming of Elijah. The Great and Terrible Day of the LORD is assumed by many today to be the final event on earths eschatological time clock. But according to Jesus, it has already occurred. In the following statements, Jesus says that John the Baptist was Elijah.

And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come. Matthew 11:14 NASB

And He answered and said, Elijah is coming and will restore all things; but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands. Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist. Matthew 17:11-13 NASB

As most of you know by now, my views are very Christ-centric and as such because Jesus says something, I take serious note of it. By Jesus making these claims about John the Baptist, and by equating Johns coming with the coming of Elijah, I see no other way to interpret them than to conclude that Jesus was claiming His own coming was in fact the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD. How else can these verses be interpreted?

Your comments are welcome!

Portions taken from Heresy, by Keith Swainson

Jesus himself identified this Elijah as John the Baptizer. (Matt. 11:12-14)

And Mark pointed out that the ministry of John fulfilled the prophetic words of Isaiah. (Isa. 40:3; Mark 1:1-4)

Jesus did not arrange for John to do an Elijah like work as His forerunner.

The activity of this foretold Elijah was done in harmony with Gods will as a means of identifying the Messiah.

The Coming of Elijah and the Great and Terrible Day of the LORD

Swainson, author of Heresy

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