Christian persecution

DeanW said:

The topic of Christian persecution and Christian freedom of speech is in the news lately. I have a question and I just want to read the answers. I'll respond if something is asked of me.

Do Christians actually want the secular world to accept them?

There are historical accounts of Christians during the time of the early church wanting to be martyred for Christ. Sometimes they actively pursued being martyred, Jesus' display of perfect Christianity and goodness was himself being martyred. The bible teaches the secular world WILL persecute Christians and teaches that that is a good thing and that being a martyr is a good thing.

Christians believe that being persecuted is a good thing. They are taught to preach the gospel of Christ and to attempt to persuade the secular world. They are also taught being persecuted for Christ is supposed to happen and that it's even a good thing. Paul told the church at Phillippi that if he was martyred it would be a good thing.

So is a preacher getting what he wants when he is rejected? Is a Christian tv star getting what he wants when he is kicked off a tv show? He believes that himself being persecuted is the natural way of things and that such only venerates his philosophy. He attempts to preach a message that he believes is supposed to be rejected and if he is persecuted for Christ it only testifies of him, it serves a good purpose and is actually supposed to happen?

A lot of Christians believe and even teach that if you are are overwhelmingly accepted that you cannot be true to the gospel of Christ. So do Christians really want the world to accept them?

If a Christian minister or tv star preached a gospel message and everyone received it, no one rejected would that be good? Could it be true?

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With all your study, I'd surely have thought that you would have clearly this answer, but possibly not.... for some unforeseen reason, strange... Christians want to be accepted by God.

DeanW said:

There are historical accounts of Christians during the time of the early church wanting to be martyred for Christ. Sometimes they actively pursued being martyred, Jesus' display of perfect Christianity and goodness was himself being martyred. The bible teaches the secular world WILL persecute Christians and teaches that that is a good thing and that being a martyr is a good thing.

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Not exactly. Being martyred means that you are doing right, and you will be blessed. Persecution however, is not a good thing, but an evil thing. It can be used for good effects in spite of its evil origins. An analogy would be combat - veteran troops are generally considered to be better soldiers, because they are battle-tested, but does that really mean that the battle is a good thing? The conditions of battle are terrible.

DeanW said:

They are taught to preach the gospel of Christ and to attempt to persuade the secular world. They are also taught being persecuted for Christ is supposed to happen and that it's even a good thing. Paul told the church at Phillippi that if he was martyred it would be a good thing.

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The benefit to Paul would hypothetically have been an entirely selfish one - it would be better for him to be with the Lord in Heaven, but it would be better for the church for him to remain on Earth where he is subject to trouble. Good can happen because of or in spite of bad things being done.

DeanW said:

So is a preacher getting what he wants when he is rejected? Is a Christian tv star getting what he wants when he is kicked off a tv show? He believes that himself being persecuted is the natural way of things and that such only venerates his philosophy. He attempts to preach a message that he believes is supposed to be rejected and if he is persecuted for Christ it only testifies of him, it serves a good purpose and is actually supposed to happen?

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It depends on the preacher. Maybe that's what he wants, maybe he would rather be treated fairly. Nothing is really wrong with the latter according to the New Testament. It's not even a sign that you're doing anything wrong. Persecution can however, be a sign that you are doing something right.

DeanW said:

A lot of Christians believe and even teach that if you are are overwhelmingly accepted that you cannot be true to the gospel of Christ.

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I would actually challenge them on that view.

DeanW said:

If a Christian minister or tv star preached a gospel message and everyone received it, no one rejected would that be good? Could it be true?

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Absolutely.

DeanW said:

There are historical accounts of Christians during the time of the early church wanting to be martyred for Christ. Sometimes they actively pursued being martyred, Jesus' display of perfect Christianity and goodness was himself being martyred. The bible teaches the secular world WILL persecute Christians and teaches that that is a good thing and that being a martyr is a good thing.

Christians believe that being persecuted is a good thing. They are taught to preach the gospel of Christ and to attempt to persuade the secular world. They are also taught being persecuted for Christ is supposed to happen and that it's even a good thing. Paul told the church at Phillippi that if he was martyred it would be a good thing.

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Actually during Christ's earthly lifetime, there was no such thing as "the secular world". The concept had not been invented yet. In the early medieval period, Christian clergy were divided into two groups: religious and secular clergy. The former were monks and nuns who lived mainly in religious communities, with little contact with the outside world. The secular clergy were those tasked with preaching and other interactions with the laity. That's where the idea of secularism comes from.

Regarding persecution, we see no important difference between secular and religious persecution. Some Christians today are persecuted by atheists, as in China. Others are persecuted by religious authorities or mobs, as in Egypt or Nigeria. All are worthy of our support.

Regarding whether persecution is a good thing, of course it is not. We all agree that the ideal is a positive peace and the presence of love and respect among all peoples. So whenever violence occurs it is a bad thing. But in some cases, violence must occur. The Civil Rights protestors such as Rev. Martin Luther King and the Freedom Riders conducted non-violent protests with the goal of provoking a violent response from the authorities, and got what they wanted. But obviously their aim was not to provoke acts of violence in and of themselves, but rather to end up with a society that had peace and justice for all.

In reading your OP, some thoughts came up.

And realize of course I don't speak for everyone, but for myself (and I expect some others feel this way).

Do I WANT to be persecuted? Martyred? Of course not.

Living in the US, I have experienced this only in limited ways. I was chased by a group once, screamed obscenities at me, and cornered me. (I wasn't doing anything at the time, btw, just walking down the street, and they did not know me.) but they did scream and call me a Christian, then chased me. When they cornered me, it was a standoff. They surrounded me, but after a moment just dropped their hands and went away. And my husband, after being identified at work as a Christian, was treated unfairly and kept having his hours cut deeply until the final month he worked only two days. Those are the most outstanding examples I've experienced.

Am I looking for persecution, hoping to provoke it so I'll be "blessed" somehow? Absolutely not! (And if that is one's real aim, I'm not sure God would see it in the same way they are hoping.)

I more take the Scripture passages as encouragement. There was very real persecution happening in the church (and still does today, just not in my experience). People were being beaten, killed, just for living out their faith. I think in that situation, the letters would have been seen as encouragement in difficult circumstances. And throughout time, as Christians are persecuted, the same. If ever I must face it, I would hope to take encouragement from the fact that we WILL be blessed for it, and not to think it strange (perhaps some form of judgement as people sometimes do when things go against them).

I hope that makes sense. I'm typing with one finger on a tiny screen with a cat walking on me.

I'll try to address your actual questions? Sorry.

>Do Christians actually want the secular world to accept them?

Generally, I think yes. Elsewhere in the Bible we are told to live in peace, if possible. I think that's what we all want. We just don't compromise our faith for it, since that is a higher standard (faith).


> So is a preacher getting what he wants when he is rejected? Is a Christian tv star getting what he wants when he is kicked off a tv show? He believes that himself being persecuted is the natural way of things and that such only venerates his philosophy. He attempts to preach a message that he believes is supposed to be rejected and if he is persecuted for Christ it only testifies of him, it serves a good purpose and is actually supposed to happen?

I think it's more a matter that we understand when it does happen. That's not our goal / aim, or shouldn't be. Of course it's much better to present one's faith, preach, stand by our convictions and be accepted. There's a lot more likelihood of someone's life being affected by us in that case, and that's what we really hope for.

>A lot of Christians believe and even teach that if you are are overwhelmingly accepted that you cannot be true to the gospel of Christ. So do Christians really want the world to accept them?

This makes me think of certain ministries that - let's just say they preach only the "good" stuff and don't offend or make uncomfortable anyone in their own congregations. They tend to come under a lot of fire. But that's all within the world of Christianity. There have been times of revival when the gospel was overwhelmingly accepted. That's even better - so no, nothing wrong in acceptance itself. It's really a complex situation depending on the message, the reception, the audience, and more, so a simple yes or no can't cover it.

>If a Christian minister or tv star preached a gospel message and everyone received it, no one rejected would that be good? Could it be true?

Absolutely - such as the revival situation I mentioned. It would be wonderful. And it could happen.

Not sure if you were asking if the message could be true in that case, or if the acceptance could be true, but yes, it's possible both could be.

Nobody wants to be persecuted and everybody wants to be free.

But if someone wanted to kill me for what I believe, id accept death for what I believe.

basically, I wouldnt want to be persecuted, but if it happened, i'd die for the faith.

All Englands Skies said:

Nobody wants to be persecuted and everybody wants to be free.

But if someone wanted to kill me for what I believe, id accept death for what I believe.

basically, I wouldnt want to be persecuted, but if it happened, i'd die for the faith.

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There are two ways to look at this aren't there? Death is either an easy way out of persecution or the result. Faith is living through persecution, in my opinion.... till death is the result.

Do Christians actually want the secular world to accept them?

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"Accept them"? You mean embrace Christians wholeheartedly and with enthusiasm? This will not be possible if a Christian is living rightly before God. A holy life is a rebuke to those who live in darkness and corruption.

John 3:19-20
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.

Christians believe that being persecuted is a good thing.

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Not exactly.

1 Peter 2:20-21
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:

A Christian may be persecuted for reasons that legitimately deserve persecution: They lie, or cheat, or behave hypocritically, etc. It is only when a believer is persecuted for following the example of Christ and takes it patiently that the persecution has a positive aspect to it.

So is a preacher getting what he wants when he is rejected?

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Well, obviously, if rejection is what he is aiming for, then yes.

Is a Christian tv star getting what he wants when he is kicked off a tv show?

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You mean Phil Robertson? I don't know that he wanted to be kicked off Duck Dynasty, but he was not afraid of this consequence when speaking his mind. I doubt he was surprised that his words about sin did not fall on receptive ears. The world is steeped in sin and never happy to hear itself condemned.

He believes that himself being persecuted is the natural way of things and that such only venerates his philosophy. He attempts to preach a message that he believes is supposed to be rejected

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Not "supposed to be" but "will be." Phil was not being offensive for its own sake; he was speaking the truth of God's Word. He is warned in the Bible that doing so will raise the hackles of those who deny God's truth. So, Phil was not expecting his words would receive a warm reception, but he was not speaking simply to offend. His goal was to testify to God's truth.

and if he is persecuted for Christ it only testifies of him, it serves a good purpose and is actually supposed to happen?

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"Supposed to"? No. "Will"? Yes.

A lot of Christians believe and even teach that if you are are overwhelmingly accepted that you cannot be true to the gospel of Christ. So do Christians really want the world to accept them?

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John 15:18-19
18 "If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you.
19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.

2 Timothy 4:3-4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.

Think Joel Osteen.

If a Christian minister or tv star preached a gospel message and everyone received it, no one rejected would that be good? Could it be true?

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It would be outstanding but very, very unusual.

Matthew 7:14
14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.


Selah.