Count the number

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 18, 2013

A host was given to the prince of this world because man has turned their backs on following the Lord and His commandments. It's by reason of transgression the Lord has allowed these wicked rulers to rule.

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

Also the Lord warned the people what would happen if they forsook from following after Him.

Hosea 13:6-8

King James Version (KJV)

6 According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me.
7 Therefore I will be unto them as a lion: as a leopard by the way will I observe them:
8 I will meet them as a bear that is bereaved of her whelps, and will rend the caul of their heart, and there will I devour them like a lion: the wild beast shall tear them.

We see the same characteristics in the beast in Revelation...

Revelation 13:2
And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

So even though Satan empowers these wicked kingdoms and kings, it is the Lord who has allowed it as part of His righteous indignation and judgment against those who refuse to listen to His Word.

Interplanner · Dec 18, 2013

Dan 8:12 means the figure who leads 'the rebellion that desolates' in the 1st century, after the Gospel, got access to lead temple practices inappropriately; he murdered the existing high priest. It is chronicled in Josephus.

vinsight4u · Dec 18, 2013

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 18, 2013

Interplanner said:
Dan 8:12 means the figure who leads 'the rebellion that desolates' in the 1st century, after the Gospel, got access to lead temple practices inappropriately; he murdered the existing high priest. It is chronicled in Josephus.

That verse is speaking of the Prince of this worlds coming, the Red Dragon, antichrist spirit, who's coming was also confirmed by Jesus, and also confirmed by the apostles that he (antichrist) was already in the world during their ministry.

Note where he exalted his throne to, and was cast down from, and also who he drew away with him when he was cast down from heaven.

Daniel 8:10-12

King James Version (KJV)

10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down.
12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered."

Satan exalted himself, even to the host of heaven, no man has ever done this. Also it was the great red dragon who is the one who drew away, or cast down some of the host of heaven (stars) to the ground (earth) with him. (no man did this)

Revelation 12:3-4
"And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born."

So the prince of this world was cast down from heaven, and also some of his angels were with him (host given him against the daily sacrifice.)

The daily sacrifice is not speaking about being against animal sacrifice, but rather against the Jews. Paul gave us a clue, when he said "I die daily".

Daniel 8:12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

It was the Jews transgressions and abominations that brought on the abomination that caused their desolation.

But yes, the spirit of antichrist and the spirit of those devils working in wicked men brought on the destruction of Jerusalem.

Interplanner · Dec 18, 2013

Your "die daily" sacrfice thing is way off. It is talking about the temple system, until it stopped.

As for the leader of the 'rebellion that desolates,' back up a second. The prince is not in heaven to start with. He inflates himself but he is not there. 2nd, there are translation questions in 9-12 that are difficult.

But what I was refering to was how v13 is connected to v23's rebels. And 25 is where he pits himself against the Prince Christ. If its worth anything, he puffs himself up as the leader of the rebels. This is in the section that is the interpretation of the vision (v15+) so the vision was not about Satan, nor the ancient dragon, nor heaven after all, as such. There are just similarities.

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 18, 2013

vinsight4u said:
Is there only one seat that the dragon can give, as in the one that is what Bible2 posted about - the one -as to Pergamon? as to that altar there -was moved to Berlin

I would say there were 7 thrones, (spiritually speaking) just as there is shown 7 heads, 7 mountains....which are kings (princes) ruling kingdoms.

Daniel 7:9 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

But it is the Dragon that empowers them all, by his spirit (spirit of that wicked)

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 18, 2013

Interplanner said:
Your "die daily" sacrfice thing is way off. It is talking about the temple system, until it stopped.

As for the leader of the 'rebellion that desolates,' back up a second. The prince is not in heaven to start with. He inflates himself but he is not there. 2nd, there are translation questions in 9-12 that are difficult.

But what I was refering to was how v13 is connected to v23's rebels. And 25 is where he pits himself against the Prince Christ. If its worth anything, he puffs himself up as the leader of the rebels. This is in the section that is the interpretation of the vision (v15+) so the vision was not about Satan, nor the ancient dragon, nor heaven after all, as such. There are just similarities.

People have a hard time grasping how the animal sacrifices in the old testament were really just symbolic of peoples, just as the "new meat offering" in the law (after the 7 Sabbaths= Pentecost) was a symbolism of the start of the Gentile period (offering up of the Gentiles as Paul put it)

And I believe your incorrect about that not being about Satan, because that is the prophecy of the coming of the antichrist spirit. (prince of this world comes) as both Jesus and the apostles confirmed the same.

Bible2 · Dec 19, 2013

vinsight4u said in post 54:

Ezekiel 28 seems to be telling about two different individuals.

prince of Tyre / a man

king of Tyre /a cherub

That could be right.

For if Ezekiel 28:2 has application to future events, because of its similarity to the never-fulfilled 2 Thessalonians 2:4, then the prince of Tyre could be the future human ruler commonly called the Antichrist (Daniel 11:36, Revelation 13:5-18). If that's the case, then the king of Tyre (Ezekiel 28:12) could be Lucifer/Satan (the dragon), who will empower the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9). And Lucifer, before his fall and man's fall, could have been placed as a covering cherub over Eden (Ezekiel 28:13-15).

There's a curious correlation between the prince and the king of Tyre on the one hand (Ezekiel 28), and the use of the name Hiram in the mystical teachings of a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism at its highest degree of initiation. For Hiram was the name of the human king of Tyre at the time of the building of King Solomon's temple (1 Kings 5). Also, Hiram was the name of another person from Tyre, the human master workman who helped Solomon build the temple (1 Kings 7:13-14). If the king and the prince of Tyre addressed in Ezekiel 28 are Lucifer and the Antichrist, then the name Hiram would be a perfect code name (not the actual name) for both of them, a name by which their identity within the Gnostic Luciferian teachings of the worldwide secret society could be kept secret from all but its highest-level initiates. Just as the human workman named Hiram built a temple to God in which all the world was to worship (1 Kings 8:41-43), so the Antichrist will bring the world into the worship of Lucifer (Revelation 13:4), when the Antichrist gains power over the earth (Revelation 13:7).

The Antichrist's future Luciferian rule over the earth could be pictured by the most common, publicly known symbol for the worldwide secret society, in which a drafting/measuring compass, an instrument shaped like the two legs of an "A" (as in "Antichrist"), is sometimes shown standing on top of a globe of the earth. And beneath, as in support of the "A" is a drafting/measuring square, an instrument shaped like an "L" (as in "Lucifer"). Also, found within the "L" is the letter "G", which could ultimately stand for the (false) "Gnosis" (knowledge) of Gnosticism (cf. the original Greek of 1 Timothy 6:20b), which the secret society (mistakenly) thinks can be found in Lucifer. The Antichrist will teach the ancient Gnostic lie that YHWH God is evil (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36), and the ancient Gnostic lie that Christ isn't in the flesh (1 John 4:3). The Antichrist will also deny that Jesus is the Christ (1 John 2:22).

--

Ultimately, the power behind the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of the beast) will be Lucifer/Satan (the dragon) (Revelation 13:4, Revelation 12:9; 2 Thessalonians 2:9), just as the ultimate controllers of the unsaved world have always been (and are still currently) Lucifer and his fallen angels (Ephesians 6:12, Ephesians 2:2-3). And there could also be a secret cabal of human world leaders in big business, finance, intelligence agencies, federal law enforcement, politics, the media/entertainment, the military, and religion, who know this fact, and so have secretly become worshippers of Lucifer in order to obtain from him all of the world's power, wealth, and pleasures that they can (cf. Matthew 4:9).

These Luciferians could have been working secretly together for some time (including through a worldwide secret society which teaches Gnostic Luciferianism at its highest degree of initiation) to prepare the way politically, economically, culturally, militarily, and religiously for a single Luciferian human world leader (the Antichrist) to take hegemony over the whole earth (Revelation 13:7b) and, along with his miracle-working False Prophet, to deceive the world into the open worship of Lucifer and the Antichrist (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 19:20). God will let them succeed in this, but for less than 4 years (Revelation 13:5b, Daniel 12:11-12), before Jesus Christ returns from heaven and defeats them completely (Revelation 19:20 to 20:3). Jesus will then set up his own, 1,000-year, physical kingdom on the earth with the bodily resurrected church (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29, Psalms 66:3-4, Psalms 72:8-11, Zechariah 14:8-21).

n2thelight · Dec 19, 2013

This is one of the best studies in it's simpliest forms that I have ran accross........

Mark of the Beast

Revelation 13
1. And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Beast is a unified system (political, economic, religious, education) with seven territories and ten rulers. This system was setup by offspring of Cain (Kenites) from the beginning of 2nd Age.

2. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

Leopard has spots; their spot is not of our spot. Bear symbolizes Russia, Lion symbolizes Tribe of Judah, and Satan as the role of Anti-Christ gives the system power.

3. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The system was almost destroyed, but the Satan appears to heal the system. The nations of the world support the beast.

4. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

The world worships Satan (as Anti-Christ) who rules the system. Since the world system is united, there is no nation to fight the system.

5. And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

The system is evil. Time of darkness given in months (lunar). Moon is symbolic of Satan. The moon appears to have light, but it is fake. Even the cycles of the moon retell the story of Satan was nothing in the beginning will be gone at the end to be nevermore.

6. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.

Satan being worshipped on earth by men claiming to be the true Christ in Jerusalem. This is an abomination.

7. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

Saints (the elect) still here during the tribulation period; not raptured away. Satan allowed by God to rule until the return of Christ.

8. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

All EXCEPT the Saints worship Satan through deception thinking that he is the Christ. The Elect have the Seal of God in there mind and know and teach the truth with the help of the Holy Spirit..
Verses 1 through 8 are repeated starting with verse 9.

9. If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Just as the prophets warned Judah that they would go into captivity during the reign of Nebuchadnezzar (king of Babylon), so shall the Saints during the reign of Anti-Christ. Satan uses tongue as a sword attempt to deceive the saints. Saints must be patient and teach the nations through the Holy Spirit before the true Lord returns. The masses hear the word of Satan, and the Word of God through the elect.

11. And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

When Satan as Anti-Christ appears, he sets up a new system (an image of the first Kenite system). Satan appears as Christ, but sounds like the dragon because he is the dragon.

12. And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Satan gives power to the new system. Satan causes the nations to worship the system which was originally set in place by the Kenites.

13. And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Satan has supernatural power to deceive the nations.

14. And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

The original beast was setup through Kenites. This image is a likeness to the original. The original beast is transformed at this point ruled directly by Satan and his fallen angels. The system almost died, and was healed by Satan at his arrival.

15. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

The world worships Satan though his new system. Like Daniel 3:1-6 shown above, those who do NOT worship the image of the beast would be put to death. The system used to find the elect to deliver them to Death (being one of the names of Satan).

16. And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

All people are required and instructed by deception to do works (hand) and beliefs (forehead) of the beast system.

Reference: Ezekiel 3:7. But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted.
8. Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads.
9. As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.

17. And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

People are manipulated into the system, or they are delivered to Satan.

18. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Count does not mean to count as in 1,2,3. This word Count (see Strongs 5585 and 5586) describe a stone used to judge as that has been worn smooth over a long period of time. This fake rock "Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil" has had his children (Kenites) preparing the beast system for this arrival since the beginning.

Satan is described as a man in reference to the King of Tyre. 6th Seal, 6th Trump, 6th Vile - This is the 6th hour; the reign of Satan as Anti-Christ.

Beast

vinsight4u · Dec 19, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 19, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 19, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 19, 2013

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 19, 2013

vinsight4u said:
I have tried over the years to work the part of wild beast into the meaning of the beast in Rev. 13 that comes up out of the sea. The problem is, actually more than one - I couldn't find in the past where the wild beast was linked to blasphemy. I also couldn't find where this would give a beast seven heads. I have considered that the word - lion is the name of the beast, mainly because Rev. 5 refers to the Lion of the tribe of Judah - as being the Lamb that was seen as slain.
If you take - brute beast -this links up with the NT as to evil speaking -and this beast then does link to blasphemy.

I have seen the seven heads as being those in the first vision of Daniel chapter 7. one - Babylon - one Mede/Persians - one Alexander the Great - and the first time of Greece - and then this leopard rises again - had also - four heads/latter days of Greece yet to come . I see these as the seven heads of Rev. 13's sea beast.
Daniel 7 shows that these are four great kings that shall arise out of the earth. I see them as rising out of the earth - after the time of the deadly wound.

Daniel 7
sea beasts

1 - like a lion
2 - like a bear
3 - like a leopard
4 - the beast had also four heads

Daniel told about four beasts, and then soon goes into the pictures of the vision that he saw next in Daniel 7. This vision also has four beasts shown to Daniel, but he doesn't tell us right away about the first three's looks.

Daniel skipped straight to the looks of the fourth beast - with one head.
Daniel later then tells us - concerning the rest of the beasts.
/This means the other three that he saw in the time of the second vision in chapter 7.

first vision - was about kings /great beasts
second vision - was about kingdoms /smaller beasts

The 4th beast is the wild beast (terrible beast) which would be made up of all nations, which is why the beast that comes up out of the sea (nations) in Rev has all the traits of the previous 3. (lion, bear, leopard)

Daniel 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 19, 2013

vinsight4u said:
But anyway, my question is - once a king or a kingdom is weighed, numbered, does that number found get attached to their name?

No.

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2013

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2013

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 20, 2013

vinsight4u said:
What would you say the word - blasphemy - as to the name on the seven heads in Rev. 13 means? Do you agree that it means - speaking evil -railing?
If so, then take a look at what a brute beast does. Check 2 Peter 2:12 and Jude 1:10. They are beasts that will be taken and destroyed. They are destitute of reason.

Deuteronomy 32 tells how in the latter days - God would raise up a foolish nation to come against Israel.

John did not say that he saw blasphemy as written on the seven heads.
John told us that upon his heads was the name of blasphemy. This has made be think that John saw a name and that name means blasphemy.

Rev.
13:1And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

Strong's 987 and 988

It is that spirit of the wicked (spirit of the world) working in the firstborn man, who is like a natural brute beast, that causes him to blaspheme God.

But there is more than one way to blaspheme, as we see names (plural) mentioned here.

Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

vinsight4u · Dec 20, 2013

InSpiritInTruth · Dec 20, 2013

vinsight4u said:
The name of the Rev. 13 beast on the seven heads and the names of blapshemy on a different beast in Rev. 17 are not the same.

Maybe you could find out what in Greek the number for - brute beast -would be.

brute beast - is what in Greek?

John saw a name - the name of blasphemy.

I don't see very many options for this in the Bible.

I think it has to do with an actual type of beast (a beast noted for speaking evil/blasphemy).

full of names of 988 /Rev. 17 saw a beast
the name of 988/blasphemy Rev. 13 John tells us two times that he saw this beast.

What I posted in my OP is what I believe the image,mark, name, number represents. Don't get too caught up in the number, or a single name itself, but rather try to focus on the message.

Because the message supports and also confirms the image, mark, name and number.

Count the number

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