The prince

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In Matt.22, Jesus speaks a parable concerning the kingdom of heaven as being like a certain king who sent his servants to call the people to the wedding feast. At first they walked away making light of the invitation; than some took the kings servants beat and killed them. When the king heard this, he sent forth his armies, and destroyed the murderers and burned up their city.

You can read the rest of the story. This parable points to Jesus as the one for whom the wedding supper was meant, and the Jewish people were those who were first invited; rejected the invitation, than killed God’s servants.

The book of Daniel was written some 500 + years before the coming of the Messiah, and prophesies were made concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. This happened in 70 A.D. when the Roman armies were sent to fulfill the word of the Lord. Of course the Roman armies had their leaders, but unknown to them, they were being moved by the God of Israel to fulfill His will. His will was to punish the Jews for what they had done to the prophets and to the Son of God.

Now let’s compare this with Dan.9:26, “The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood.”

So my question is, “Who is this prince?” Some say its Titus because he led the Roman armies into Israel, and that is exactly what he did. But what if Titus was not meant? What if Jesus was the prince meant? Jesus is the King, the prince of princes, king of kings, Lord of lords. He rules over all men, and their kingdoms; He sets up, and he tears down.

In Micah, Jesus is called “The LORD of the whole earth.” In Daniel, Jesus is called Messiah the Prince; in Acts 5:31, Jesus is called “A Prince and Savior.”

Rev.1:5, Jesus is called the “prince of the kings of the earth.” Compare with,

Rev.17:14, “For he (Jesus) is Lord of lords, and King of kings.”

Zeck.4:14, speaking of the two witnesses of Rev.11, “These are the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” These also will be sent by Jesus.

I am going to say that the prince that sends the people is the prince of the whole earth, Jesus Christ. Of course Titus was the Roman General who led the armies of Rome into Jerusalem but unknown to Titus, he was sent by God to fulfill His will.

Deut.7:14, “To the intent that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whosoever he will, and sets up over it the basest (lowest) of men.”

Scriptures reveal there were many times when God would gather the enemies of the Jews together, and send them to Israel to destroy their cities; take them into captivity and kill many because of their disobedience and sin. Example of God’s will over men follow;

Ezek.29:19, “Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will GIVE the land of Egypt unto Nebuchadrezar king of Babylon.” Ver20, “I have GIVEN him (Nebuchadrezar) the land of Egypt.” Of course Nebuchadrezar led his armies, but it was God who sent him.

Another example can be read in Dan.5. We all know the story of King Belshazzar and the writing on the wall. Dan.5:27, “Thou (Belshazzar) are weighed in the balances, and are found wanting your kingdom is divided and GIVEN to the Medes and Persians.” Again it was the Lord who sent the armies of the Medes and Persians to destroy Babylon.

So it appears to me that the people of the prince (Jesus) that came and destroyed Jerusalem were sent by the Lord himself, for He is the King of kings and rules over the kingdoms of men.

My thoughts, Phil LaSpino
 

LaSpino3

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Interplanner, I would really enjoy having a conversation with you, but as long as you use the abbreviations you do, and forget to put down the chapter and verse, or verses you’re referencing to, sorry but I have no idea what your asking, or talking about half the time. I'm strictly old school. I try to use the words written in the Bible when discussing the Scriptures. Also, are you asking me, “Whose the many” in Dan.9:27?

Phil
 
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coraline

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In Matt.22, Jesus speaks a parable concerning the kingdom of heaven as being like a certain king who sent his servants to call the people to the wedding feast. At first they walked away making light of the invitation; than some took the kings servants beat and killed them. When the king heard this, he sent forth his armies, and destroyed the murderers and burned up their city.

You can read the rest of the story. This parable points to Jesus as the one for whom the wedding supper was meant, and the Jewish people were those who were first invited; rejected the invitation, than killed God’s servants.

The book of Daniel was written some 500 + years before the coming of the Messiah, and prophesies were made concerning the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple. This happened in 70 A.D. when the Roman armies were sent to fulfill the word of the Lord. Of course the Roman armies had their leaders, but unknown to them, they were being moved by the God of Israel to fulfill His will. His will was to punish the Jews for what they had done to the prophets and to the Son of God.

Now let’s compare this with Dan.9:26, “The people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood.”

So my question is, “Who is this prince?” Some say its Titus because he led the Roman armies into Israel, and that is exactly what he did. But what if Titus was not meant? What if Jesus was the prince meant? Jesus is the King, the prince of princes, king of kings, Lord of lords. He rules over all men, and their kingdoms; He sets up, and he tears down.

In Micah, Jesus is called “The LORD of the whole earth.” In Daniel, Jesus is called Messiah the Prince; in Acts 5:31, Jesus is called “A Prince and Savior.”

Rev.1:5, Jesus is called the “prince of the kings of the earth.” Compare with,

Rev.17:14, “For he (Jesus) is Lord of lords, and King of kings.”

Zeck.4:14, speaking of the two witnesses of Rev.11, “These are the two anointed ones that stand by the Lord of the whole earth.” These also will be sent by Jesus.

I am going to say that the prince that sends the people is the prince of the whole earth, Jesus Christ. Of course Titus was the Roman General who led the armies of Rome into Jerusalem but unknown to Titus, he was sent by God to fulfill His will.

Deut.7:14, “To the intent that the living may know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whosoever he will, and sets up over it the basest (lowest) of men.”

Scriptures reveal there were many times when God would gather the enemies of the Jews together, and send them to Israel to destroy their cities; take them into captivity and kill many because of their disobedience and sin. Example of God’s will over men follow;

Ezek.29:19, “Thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I will GIVE the land of Egypt unto Nebuchadrezar king of Babylon.” Ver20, “I have GIVEN him (Nebuchadrezar) the land of Egypt.” Of course Nebuchadrezar led his armies, but it was God who sent him.

Another example can be read in Dan.5. We all know the story of King Belshazzar and the writing on the wall. Dan.5:27, “Thou (Belshazzar) are weighed in the balances, and are found wanting your kingdom is divided and GIVEN to the Medes and Persians.” Again it was the Lord who sent the armies of the Medes and Persians to destroy Babylon.

So it appears to me that the people of the prince (Jesus) that came and destroyed Jerusalem were sent by the Lord himself, for He is the King of kings and rules over the kingdoms of men.

My thoughts, Phil LaSpino

the title "prince" is widely used in scripture.

Sometimes denotes a benevolent one, sometimes it refers to a negative character.

Paul called Satan, "the prince of the power of the air."

Jesus said, "the prince of this world is coming and he has nothing on me.

I believe "the people of the prince to come" was a reference to Titus & his armies.

That to me is the only way to interpret that verse. The Romans shattered the Jews , & the "Romans" were heathen Romans. Surely it was in God's plan, but we don't see any convincing words to call the Romans Gentiles "sent by God" in scripture.

The earlier verse has the divine modifier with the title prince. That being "Messiah, the prince."
 
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ShedSinforChrist

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God moves armies around all the time in the OT to help or harm Israel, and others, as the case may be.

Great post!

Im reminded of the Hebrew context for "kill" in the Old Testament, which in Hebrew equates to "murder".

Its kinda funny, when atheists ask me why God would use people to kill other people, I have to go through the rigamarole of explaining the difference of killing, and murdering, lol.. they just dont get it..
 
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Interplanner

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the destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st century and NT background; not the ancient one in the 7th cent. BC.

Ie, the DofJ was just like one of those movements of armies by God behind the scenes, as an act of punishment (Lk 21); meanwhile he had also created a window for the Gospel to spread quickly by the Roman roads and the common Greek written language.
 
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ShedSinforChrist

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the destruction of Jerusalem in the 1st century and NT background; not the ancient one in the 7th cent. BC.

Ie, the DofJ was just like one of those movements of armies by God behind the scenes, as an act of punishment (Lk 21); meanwhile he had also created a window for the Gospel to spread quickly by the Roman roads and the common Greek written language.

Oh, duh!:doh:

srry, not up to speed on the acronyms lol
 
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riverrat

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Interplanner, I would really enjoy having a conversation with you, but as long as you use the abbreviations you do, and forget to put down the chapter and verse, or verses you’re referencing to, sorry but I have no idea what your asking, or talking about half the time. I'm strictly old school. I try to use the words written in the Bible when discussing the Scriptures. Also, are you asking me, “Whose the many” in Dan.9:27?

Phil
:thumbsup:
 
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prewrathrap

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Depends if destruction of Jerusalem fulfilled Dan 9:26, which I believe it did not based on one main reason from Dan 9:27, that there is no covenant with many for one week by the Romans.

The destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans was a fulfillment of Deu 32:50-58.
Go read about destruction of Jerusalem in Josephus and see how it fits exactly as said in the Torah.

Shalom
Mark
 
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LaSpino3

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Caroline wrote, "The Romans shattered the Jews , & the "Romans" were heathen Romans. Surely it was in God's plan, but we don't see any convincing words to call the Romans Gentiles "sent by God" in scripture."

Phil replies, "Incorrect! God scattered the Jews, the Roman armies were the weapon or tool He used to do so; just as he used Nebuchadnezzar, Alexander, and Titus, and today the Muslims. The Jews were as fallen as the Roman's, even more so because the Jews had been blessed of God where the Roman's never knew God.

Daniel’s prophesy came 500 years before the events of 70 A.D. occurred; God having already determined his judgments against them. Even if Mickey Mouse led the Roman armies, the results would have been the same.

The destruction of Israel occurred because of Israel's sins against God. The text and context of Dan.9 concerns the Jews, their falling away, and the 70 weeks having been already determined upon Daniel's people (the Jew.)

The whole of the 70 weeks includes the destruction of the Jews by the Babylonians, the Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans, all leaving their mark on Israel and the Jewish people. And so it will be in the final week! Their enemies will never make a covenant of peace with them, it was Christ the Prince of peace who made a covenant with them, a covenant they rejected. But our God will keep his end up regardless of the Jewish mindset and actions.

Phil
 
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Interplanner

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I didn't realize you think the 70th week is future. Does God keep up his end regardless? Do you think that is what Rom 11 mentions? I assert that he is "insuring a minimum." That means God doesn't "blanket" accept nor reject any ethnos. There will be a minimum saved. He won't fail to save some of that ethnos because of things past.

No "blanket" rejection is not the same as a guaranteed future for the ethnos.
 
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LaSpino3

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Interplanner wrote, "Does God keep up his end regardless? Do you think that is what Rom 11 mentions? I assert that he is "insuring a minimum." That means God doesn't "blanket" accept nor reject any ethnos. There will be a minimum saved. He won't fail to save some of that ethnos because of things past. No "blanket" rejection is not the same as a guaranteed future for the ethnos.

Phil replies, "Again not sure what verses your speaking of in Romans. I do not mean to be disrespectful, but your questions are not clear to me. If you’re making reference to Verses Rom.11:1-2-3-4, they have nothing to do with the end times. Paul is teaching that, in two respects, Israel was not "cast away" concerning the church. 1. Not totally; 2. Not finally.

Though the main body of Jews was rejected by God, yet we are told the Gentiles were grafted into the remnant of believing Jews. The supposition of this Paul introduces by commenting, "God forbid!"

Concerning #1, Paul wrote in Phil.3:5, "For we (including Paul) are the circumcision (of the physical seed of Abraham.) Ver.5, "Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee."

In this, Paul a Jew is a living witness to this fact. There was a chosen remnant of believing Jews that obtained righteousness by faith in Jesus Christ. These Jews are said to be those God foreknew, whom God foreknew he did predestinate. These are called the election, ver.7.

Election meaning the elect, those chosen of God unto salvation or as members of the kingdom of heaven, and who therefore enjoy His favor and lead a holy life in communion with Him.

Phil LaSpino
 
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Interplanner

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That was about people who think that 11:29's gifts and calling are about the ethnos, about all of them being saved at one point (some of these folks even say it is retroactive...). I'm saying 'gifts and calling' means at least some Jews will be saved, but that neither a blanket acceptance nor rejection was meant. "All Israel" refers to the Israel Paul had defined in chs 9-11.
 
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