looks to me as if the last 20+ post have been off topic. Can we go back to the OP question? Thank you.
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Is Ellen White the final interpreter of scripture for SDA?
- Thread starter tall73
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JDMiowa
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Is Ellen White the final interpreter of scripture for SDA? If you hold to the teachings of Ellen G. White the answer must be NO, if you are not a student of EGW the answer must also be NO.
But let us let Ellen White answer this question!!! Quotes from Ellen G. White
(1) "In regard to infallibility, I NEVER claimed it; God ALONE is Infallible." Selected Messages, Book One, pp 415 and 37
(2) "Let no one come to the conclusion that there is no more truth to be revealed. The diligent, prayerful seeker for truth will find precious rays of light yet to shine forth from the word of God." Counsels on Sabbath School Work, p. 34
(3) "There is no excuse for anyone in taking the position that there is no more truth to be revealed, and that all our expositions of Scripture are without error. The fact that certain doctrines have been held as truth for many years by our people is not a proof that our ideas are infallible. Age will not make an error into truth, and truth can afford to be fair. No true doctrine will lose anything by close investigation. Review and Herald, December 20,1892
(4) "We cannot hold that a position once taken, an idea once advocated, is not, under any circumstances, to be relinquished. There is but One who is infallible --- He is the way, the truth, and the life.
(5) "If the pillars of our faith will not stand the test of investigation, it is time we knew it." Testimonies to Ministers, pp 105 and 107
(6) "The Bible and the Bible alone, is our creed, the sole bond of union; all who bow to this holy Word will be in harmony . . . Man is fallible, but God's Word is infallible.
(7) "We have many lessons to learn, and many, many to unlearn. God and heaven alone are infallible. Those who think that they will never have to give up a cherished view, never have occasion to change an opinion, will be disappointed.
(8) "In regard to infallibility, I never claimed it; God alone is infallible. His word is true, and in Him is no variableness, or shadow of turning." Selected Messages, Book One, pp. 416 and 37.
(9) "Our position and faith is in the Bible. . . . And never do we want any soul to bring in the Testimonies ahead of the Bible." Evangelism, p. 256
(10) We are not to accept the opinion of commentators as the voice of God; they are erring mortals like ourselves. God has given reasoning powers to us as well as to them. We should make the Bible its own expositor.
(11) We must study the truth for ourselves. No man should be relied upon to think for us. No matter who he is, or in what position he may be placed, we are not to look upon any man as a criterion for us. Testimonies to Ministers, pp. 106 and 110
(12) Whatever may be mans intellectual advancement, let him not for a moment think that there is no need of thorough and continuous searching of Scripture for greater light. As a people we are called individually to be students of prophecy. We must watch with earnestness that we may discern any ray of light which God shall present to us. We are to catch the first gleamings of truth; and through prayerful study, clearer light may be obtained, which can be brought to others.
(13) Some of our leading brethren have frequently taken their position on the wrong side: and if God would send a message and wait for these older brethren to open the way for its advancement, it would never reach the people.
(14) The rebuke of the Lord will rest upon those who would bar the way, that clearer light shall not come to the people. . . . Let no one run the risk of interposing between the people and the message of heaven. Gospel Workers, pp 300, 303, and 304.
(15) A spirit of pharisaism has been coming in upon the people who claim to believe the truth for these last days. They are self-satisfied. They have said, We have the truth. There is no more light for the people of God. But we are not safe when we take the position that we will not accept anything else than that upon which we have settled as truth. We should take the Bible, and investigate it closely for ourselves. We should dig in the mine of Gods word for truth. Review and Herald, June 18, 1888.
(16) We need to begin all over again. . . . Errors may be hoary with age; but age dos not make error truth, nor truth error. Altogether too long have the old customs and habits been followed. The Lord would now have every idea that is false put away from teachers and students. We are not at liberty to teach that which shall meet the worlds standard or the standard of the church, simply because it is the custom to do so. Testimonies for the Church, vol 6, p. 142.
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I have noticed that you have posted this no less than three times. It is sort of redundant. However, this is what I have been trying, for the past few weeks, to get SDAs to understand.
Unfortunately, most SDAs, and I am a SDA, seem to use EGW to defend every argument concerning certain issues when they can't do so from scripture. The end result is that they put EGW's writings above scripture. How they defend this is by saying that whenever she speaks with a "thus saith the Lord" or is in vision than her words are unchangable. This sounds much like what the RCC does concerning the Pope when he speak in catheter ( play on words, so don't jump on this, I think those who have studied know what I'm saying here. Bit of humor never hurt anybody.) thus placing EGW at the same level as the Pope, a dangerous position to be in.
EGW, as can be seen, never claimed prophetess status, nor did she claim ANY kind of infallibility. She understood that God had not given her all the light He was to give, but that the final light was to be given in the last generation just before Christ's return.
Adventists have done to EGW's writings what protestants do to the Word of God, they pick and choose what they want to support their precious theology and doctrines and will not budge from them because of their pride and self-centeredness in believing that they do not need any new light so that when POSSIBLE new light is shown they absolutely refuse to research even the tiniest bit of scripture to either refute or verify what is being presented. But, rather, instead turn to EGW's writings to find evidence to contradict the new light.
This places us in a very dangerous position, much like the Jews during the time when Jesus was here and John preaching that the Kingdom was at hand. Most refused to believe and missed out on the blessing of being touch by the Lord both physically and spiritually. They were unprepared for his arrival. They refused John's message because he was unschooled and without Temple training. But who did Jesus pick as disciples? It wasn't he highly educated, but the lowly fishermen, tax collector and the like. It will be the same today when God chooses whom He will and again those who have been "educated" in doctrines and theology will be jealous because they were not choosen and these will lead the people to reject the message because the messenger(s) with not have their level of education in such matters.
We need to reevaluate our beliefs and our doctrines and do so according to scripture, especially in the matter of prophecy. Much we have right, much we also have wrong, and would do well to dig deep to find out where we are wrong so we are not taken by surprise when the time of trouble comes upon us, for it will take many by surprise, especially those in the cities.
God Bless, and thank you for posting these messages from EGW.
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*edited for reasons of undue consideration. Seems I spoke too soon, upon coming into certain information, therefore I apologize, I was wrong.
*edited for reasons of undue consideration. Seems I spoke too soon, upon coming into certain information, therefore I apologize, I was wrong.
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*edited for reasons of undue consideration. Seems I spoke too soon, upon coming into certain information, therefore I apologize, I was wrong.
*edited for reasons of undue consideration. Seems I spoke too soon, upon coming into certain information, therefore I apologize, I was wrong.
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I am not an Adventist any longer. So if there is any follow up to what you might say it would have to happen in General Theology, etc. However, please do explain the fulfillment as you understand it, as I am interested in your answer.
Thanks.
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*edited for reasons of undue consideration. Seems I spoke too soon, upon coming into certain information, therefore I apologize, I was wrong.
*edited for reasons of undue consideration. Seems I spoke too soon, upon coming into certain information, therefore I apologize, I was wrong.
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I have recently edited my posts in retraction, recantation, to state an error upon my part in regards to conditional, for there was a specific point I had simply overlooked, and so there is condition involved here, and so this is what I have currently come to and hold to and yet I stated too soon otherwise, even after sounding warning of the same {sigh}, and also still more importantly to consider something yet further in regards to a specific phrase, and so I need to look for more detail to be sure this time, and may yet have a more fully developed answer, which would still include the special resurrection, in regards to the vision.
I apologize for this. There is a specific phrase in the statements surrounding this vision that I need to consider more deeply in regards to what I believe to be the related prophecies of the special resurrection still, and when I have this answer more fully solidified, I shall come back and make it known, whatever is found.
Here are the texts of the Special Resurrection in the meantime:
Also here are three references from the Seventh-day Adventist pioneers:
I apologize for this. There is a specific phrase in the statements surrounding this vision that I need to consider more deeply in regards to what I believe to be the related prophecies of the special resurrection still, and when I have this answer more fully solidified, I shall come back and make it known, whatever is found.
Here are the texts of the Special Resurrection in the meantime:
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:13
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:12
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 26:64
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:62
I am sure there are more, as I think I came across one or two more in the OT, but do not at this time have those references, but I hopefully will find those passages again.And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed [are] the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:13
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame [and] everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
Blessed [is] he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:12
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 26:64
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:62
Also here are three references from the Seventh-day Adventist pioneers:
“... Graves are opened, and “many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth” “awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” [Daniel 12:2.] All who have died in faith under the third angel’s message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear God’s covenant of peace with those who have kept his law. “They also which pierced Him,” those that mocked and derided Christ’s dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of his truth and his people, are raised to behold him in his glory, and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient. ...” - Ellen G. White; The Spirit Of Prophecy Volume 4; Page 454 - Ellen G. White Writings and see also The Great Controversy; Page 637 - Ellen G. White Writings
“... It was at midnight that God chose to deliver His people. As the wicked were mocking around them, suddenly the sun appeared, shining in his strength, and the moon stood still. The wicked looked upon the scene with amazement, while the saints beheld with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Signs and wonders followed in quick succession. Everything seemed turned out of its natural course. The streams ceased to flow. Dark, heavy clouds came up and clashed against each other. But there was one clear place of settled glory, whence came the voice of God like many waters, shaking the heavens and the earth. There was a mighty earthquake. The graves were opened, and those who had died in faith under the third angel’s message, keeping the Sabbath, came forth from their dusty beds, glorified, to hear the covenant of peace that God was to make with those who had kept His law.
The sky opened and shut and was in commotion. The mountains shook like a reed in the wind and cast out ragged rocks all around. The sea boiled like a pot and cast out stones upon the land. And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus’ coming and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people, He spoke one sentence, and then paused, while the words were rolling through the earth. The Israel of God stood with their eyes fixed upward, listening to [Page 285-286] the words as they came from the mouth of Jehovah and rolled through the earth like peals of loudest thunder. It was awfully solemn. At the end of every sentence the saints shouted, “Glory! Hallelujah!” Their countenances were lighted up with the glory of God, and they shone with glory as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked could not look upon them for the glory. And when the never-ending blessing was pronounced on those who had honored God in keeping His Sabbath holy, there was a mighty shout of victory over the beast and over his image.
Then commenced the jubilee, when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in victory and triumph, and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God.
Soon appeared the great white cloud, upon which sat the Son of man. When it first appeared in the distance, this cloud looked very small. The angel said that it was the sign of the Son of man. As it drew nearer the earth, we could behold the excellent glory and majesty of Jesus as He rode forth to conquer. A retinue of holy angels, with bright, glittering crowns upon their heads, escorted Him on His way. No language can describe the glory of the scene. The living cloud of majesty and unsurpassed glory came still nearer, and we could clearly behold the lovely person of Jesus. He did not wear a crown of thorns, but a crown of glory rested upon His holy brow. Upon His vesture and thigh was a name written, King of kings, and Lord of lords. His countenance was as bright as the noonday sun, His eyes were as a flame of fire, and His feet had the appearance of fine brass. His voice sounded like many musical instruments. ...” - Ellen G. White; Early Writings; Deliverance Of The Saints; Page 285-286 - Ellen G. White Writings
“... Here a partial resurrection is brought to view, or a resurrection of a certain class of each, righteous and wicked, before the general resurrection of either class. Many, not all, that sleep shall awake. Some of the righteous, not all of them, to everlasting life, and some of the wicked, not all of them, to shame and everlasting contempt. And this resurrection transpires in connection with the great time of trouble such as never was, which just precedes the coming of the Lord. May not “they also which pierced him” be among those who then come up to shame and everlasting contempt? What could be more appropriate, so far as human minds can judge, than that those who took part in the scene of our Lord’s greatest humiliation, and other special leaders in crime against him, should be raised to behold his terrible majesty, as he comes triumphantly, in flaming fire, to take vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not his gospel? (See Daniel 12:2.) ...” - Uriah Smith; Daniel and the Revelation ; page 362 - Ellen G. White Writings
“... It was at midnight that God chose to deliver His people. As the wicked were mocking around them, suddenly the sun appeared, shining in his strength, and the moon stood still. The wicked looked upon the scene with amazement, while the saints beheld with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Signs and wonders followed in quick succession. Everything seemed turned out of its natural course. The streams ceased to flow. Dark, heavy clouds came up and clashed against each other. But there was one clear place of settled glory, whence came the voice of God like many waters, shaking the heavens and the earth. There was a mighty earthquake. The graves were opened, and those who had died in faith under the third angel’s message, keeping the Sabbath, came forth from their dusty beds, glorified, to hear the covenant of peace that God was to make with those who had kept His law.
The sky opened and shut and was in commotion. The mountains shook like a reed in the wind and cast out ragged rocks all around. The sea boiled like a pot and cast out stones upon the land. And as God spoke the day and the hour of Jesus’ coming and delivered the everlasting covenant to His people, He spoke one sentence, and then paused, while the words were rolling through the earth. The Israel of God stood with their eyes fixed upward, listening to [Page 285-286] the words as they came from the mouth of Jehovah and rolled through the earth like peals of loudest thunder. It was awfully solemn. At the end of every sentence the saints shouted, “Glory! Hallelujah!” Their countenances were lighted up with the glory of God, and they shone with glory as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked could not look upon them for the glory. And when the never-ending blessing was pronounced on those who had honored God in keeping His Sabbath holy, there was a mighty shout of victory over the beast and over his image.
Then commenced the jubilee, when the land should rest. I saw the pious slave rise in victory and triumph, and shake off the chains that bound him, while his wicked master was in confusion and knew not what to do; for the wicked could not understand the words of the voice of God.
Soon appeared the great white cloud, upon which sat the Son of man. When it first appeared in the distance, this cloud looked very small. The angel said that it was the sign of the Son of man. As it drew nearer the earth, we could behold the excellent glory and majesty of Jesus as He rode forth to conquer. A retinue of holy angels, with bright, glittering crowns upon their heads, escorted Him on His way. No language can describe the glory of the scene. The living cloud of majesty and unsurpassed glory came still nearer, and we could clearly behold the lovely person of Jesus. He did not wear a crown of thorns, but a crown of glory rested upon His holy brow. Upon His vesture and thigh was a name written, King of kings, and Lord of lords. His countenance was as bright as the noonday sun, His eyes were as a flame of fire, and His feet had the appearance of fine brass. His voice sounded like many musical instruments. ...” - Ellen G. White; Early Writings; Deliverance Of The Saints; Page 285-286 - Ellen G. White Writings
“... Here a partial resurrection is brought to view, or a resurrection of a certain class of each, righteous and wicked, before the general resurrection of either class. Many, not all, that sleep shall awake. Some of the righteous, not all of them, to everlasting life, and some of the wicked, not all of them, to shame and everlasting contempt. And this resurrection transpires in connection with the great time of trouble such as never was, which just precedes the coming of the Lord. May not “they also which pierced him” be among those who then come up to shame and everlasting contempt? What could be more appropriate, so far as human minds can judge, than that those who took part in the scene of our Lord’s greatest humiliation, and other special leaders in crime against him, should be raised to behold his terrible majesty, as he comes triumphantly, in flaming fire, to take vengeance on them that know not God, and obey not his gospel? (See Daniel 12:2.) ...” - Uriah Smith; Daniel and the Revelation ; page 362 - Ellen G. White Writings
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OK, here are the "food for worms" vision quotations and similar references to this specific vision:
Food for Worms:
Food for Worms:
... But we were yet to pass through another severe trial. At the conference a very solemn vision was given me. I saw that some of those present would be food for worms, some subjects for the seven last plagues, and some would be translated to heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death. ... - Ellen G. White; Spiritual Gifts Volume 2; Page 208 - Ellen G. White Writings
... I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel, Some food for worms, [Sister Clarissa M. Bonfoey, who fell asleep in Jesus only three days after this vision was given, was present, in usual health, and was deeply impressed that she was one that would go into the grave, and stated her convictions to others.] some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus.
Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel. I asked why so few were interested in their eternal interest, so few preparing for their last change. Said the angel, Earth attracts them, its treasures seem of worth to them. They find enough to engross the mind, and have no time to prepare for Heaven. Satan is ever ready to plunge them deeper and deeper into difficulty, and as one perplexity and trouble is off the mind he begets within them an unholy desire for more of the things of earth, and thus their time is gone, and when it is too late they see they have nothing substantial. They have grasped at shadows and lost eternal life. ... - Ellen G. White; Spiritual Gifts Volume 4B; Page 18 - Ellen G. White Writings
... But we were yet to pass through another severe trial. At the Conference a very solemn vision was given me. I saw that some of those present would be food for worms, some subjects for the seven last plagues, and some would be translated to Heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death. ... - Ellen G. White; Life Sketches Of James And Ellen G. White 1888; Page 321 - Ellen G. White Writings
... I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said [Page 131-132] the angel: Some food for worms, [Sister Clarissa M. Bonfoey, who fell asleep in Jesus only three days after this vision was given, was present in usual health, and was deeply impressed that she was one who would go into the grave, and stated her convictions to others.] some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.
Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel. I asked the angel why so few were interested in their eternal welfare, so few preparing for their last change. Said he: Earth attracts them, its treasures seem of worth to them. They find enough to engross the mind, and have no time to prepare for heaven. Satan is ever ready to plunge them deeper and deeper into difficulty; as soon as one perplexity and trouble is off the mind, he begets within them an unholy desire for more of the things of earth; and thus their time passes, and, when it is too late, they see that they have gained nothing substantial. They have grasped at shadows and lost eternal life. Such will have no excuse. ... - Ellen G. White; Testimonies For The Church Volume 1; Page 131-132; Chapter 23; Conformity To The World - Ellen G. White Writings
...I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus. Testimonies For The Church 1:31, 132 (1856). ... - Ellen G. White; Last Day Events; Page 36 - Ellen G. White Writings
... I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel: Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus. Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel.Ibid., 1:131, 132. ... - Arthur L. White; Ellen G. White Volume 1 The Early Years: 1827-1862; Page 339 - Ellen G. White Writings
I want everyone to notice that there are two basic ones, [1] the vision where the Angel actually speaks directly, and [2] the basic retelling of the vision by Ellen G. White using her own words {rather than a direct quotation of the Angel of her vision} derived from Scripture of the same events.... I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel, Some food for worms, [Sister Clarissa M. Bonfoey, who fell asleep in Jesus only three days after this vision was given, was present, in usual health, and was deeply impressed that she was one that would go into the grave, and stated her convictions to others.] some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus.
Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel. I asked why so few were interested in their eternal interest, so few preparing for their last change. Said the angel, Earth attracts them, its treasures seem of worth to them. They find enough to engross the mind, and have no time to prepare for Heaven. Satan is ever ready to plunge them deeper and deeper into difficulty, and as one perplexity and trouble is off the mind he begets within them an unholy desire for more of the things of earth, and thus their time is gone, and when it is too late they see they have nothing substantial. They have grasped at shadows and lost eternal life. ... - Ellen G. White; Spiritual Gifts Volume 4B; Page 18 - Ellen G. White Writings
... But we were yet to pass through another severe trial. At the Conference a very solemn vision was given me. I saw that some of those present would be food for worms, some subjects for the seven last plagues, and some would be translated to Heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death. ... - Ellen G. White; Life Sketches Of James And Ellen G. White 1888; Page 321 - Ellen G. White Writings
... I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said [Page 131-132] the angel: Some food for worms, [Sister Clarissa M. Bonfoey, who fell asleep in Jesus only three days after this vision was given, was present in usual health, and was deeply impressed that she was one who would go into the grave, and stated her convictions to others.] some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus.
Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel. I asked the angel why so few were interested in their eternal welfare, so few preparing for their last change. Said he: Earth attracts them, its treasures seem of worth to them. They find enough to engross the mind, and have no time to prepare for heaven. Satan is ever ready to plunge them deeper and deeper into difficulty; as soon as one perplexity and trouble is off the mind, he begets within them an unholy desire for more of the things of earth; and thus their time passes, and, when it is too late, they see that they have gained nothing substantial. They have grasped at shadows and lost eternal life. Such will have no excuse. ... - Ellen G. White; Testimonies For The Church Volume 1; Page 131-132; Chapter 23; Conformity To The World - Ellen G. White Writings
...I was shown the company present at the Conference. Said the angel: Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus. Testimonies For The Church 1:31, 132 (1856). ... - Ellen G. White; Last Day Events; Page 36 - Ellen G. White Writings
... I was shown the company present at the conference. Said the angel: Some food for worms, some subjects of the seven last plagues, some will be alive and remain upon the earth to be translated at the coming of Jesus. Solemn words were these, spoken by the angel.Ibid., 1:131, 132. ... - Arthur L. White; Ellen G. White Volume 1 The Early Years: 1827-1862; Page 339 - Ellen G. White Writings
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OK, to the condition I mentioned earlier, is not the same as stated in the common answer given, though I still love the research done here: - Chapt 8 - The Predictions of the 1856 Vision
There are 5 views on this vision and what it all means.
There are 5 views on this vision and what it all means.
[1] They do not know what it all means, and doesn't really matter to them, or if it does matter, haven't come to conclusion and so place it on the back burner or in the other case put it aside.
[2] Ellen G. White is a false messenger/prophet due to what they say is the visions failure to come to pass in what they perceive to be the alotted time/manner.
[3] {a} the vision was conditional but may yet pass, {b} or conditional in some manner for then, like based upon the present people themselves and their heart condition before God, or either God's simple mercies, not willing that any should perish, or something to that effect {like Jonah at Ninevah, &c}, or that God simply repented of the events given in the vision and the vision is no longer to pass.
[4] {a} that the special resurrection {as cited by the texts and quotations thus far given [Link]} answers the vision and clarifies the matter {b} without any need for relying upon point [3] {as I had incorrectly given earlier, having missed a point of condition}.
[5] and now to the final point of which I have come personally, and fully satisfied, is the combination of points [3, in first part {a} without part {b}] and [4, in first part {a} without part {b}], and none longer need point [1] since we have an answer and Truth being paramount, we cannot simply let it go, or toss it aside, but having come to conclusion, and having tested the conclusion by the Word of God {Scriptures} and the SoP {Ellen G. White} and Seventh-day Adventists pioneers {James White and white family, Joseph Bates, JN Loughborough, Uriah Smith, &c}, revealing point [2] to be no longer a viable option. This point realizes that the Special Resurrection is the Key that answers the vision most succintly and harmoniously, allowing for complete fulfillment of the vision for a yet future {and soon} time and includes the condition of which I mentioned, having had at first previously looked past.
Now, how is this point [5] the answer and what was that condition? Let us consider.[2] Ellen G. White is a false messenger/prophet due to what they say is the visions failure to come to pass in what they perceive to be the alotted time/manner.
[3] {a} the vision was conditional but may yet pass, {b} or conditional in some manner for then, like based upon the present people themselves and their heart condition before God, or either God's simple mercies, not willing that any should perish, or something to that effect {like Jonah at Ninevah, &c}, or that God simply repented of the events given in the vision and the vision is no longer to pass.
[4] {a} that the special resurrection {as cited by the texts and quotations thus far given [Link]} answers the vision and clarifies the matter {b} without any need for relying upon point [3] {as I had incorrectly given earlier, having missed a point of condition}.
[5] and now to the final point of which I have come personally, and fully satisfied, is the combination of points [3, in first part {a} without part {b}] and [4, in first part {a} without part {b}], and none longer need point [1] since we have an answer and Truth being paramount, we cannot simply let it go, or toss it aside, but having come to conclusion, and having tested the conclusion by the Word of God {Scriptures} and the SoP {Ellen G. White} and Seventh-day Adventists pioneers {James White and white family, Joseph Bates, JN Loughborough, Uriah Smith, &c}, revealing point [2] to be no longer a viable option. This point realizes that the Special Resurrection is the Key that answers the vision most succintly and harmoniously, allowing for complete fulfillment of the vision for a yet future {and soon} time and includes the condition of which I mentioned, having had at first previously looked past.
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OK, looking at the two basic givings of the vision, we have the following to consider, based upon the following quotations from here [Link]:
[1] There is a very specific "Conference" {gathering of Official body of Seventh-day Adventists for those who do not know} to which the vision refers. This was not and cannot refer to any future "Conference", but only to that specific one, in that specific year, since the vision is definitive upon this point:
Moving onto the condition briefly, we shall consider that the coming of the LORD, the 2nd Advent, is immanent, but even though God knows the exact time in which He has allotted and set for mercy and then Judgment, the coming may happen faster than the allotted time by God, as it may be affected by the people of God, and thus there is a condition in which the vision could have been fulfilled sooner, rather than later as it now shall be. Two verses for the moment:
[1] There is a very specific "Conference" {gathering of Official body of Seventh-day Adventists for those who do not know} to which the vision refers. This was not and cannot refer to any future "Conference", but only to that specific one, in that specific year, since the vision is definitive upon this point:
"... At the conference a very solemn vision was given me. I saw that some of those present would be ..."
"... I was shown the company present at the Conference ..."
This "Conference" was the Conference held in 1856, as noted by the Ellen G. White Estate [Link] and also in Spiritual Gifts Volume 2; Page 207; &c:"... I was shown the company present at the Conference ..."
"... A conference was held at Battle Creek in May, 1856. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
[2] There are 3 groups pointed out at that Conference in the vision itself, and in the retelling of it:
Group 1 - {A1} Angel of the vision says, "... Some food for worms ..." and {A2} Ellen G White recounts later, "... I saw that some of those present would be food for worms ..."
Group 2 - {B1} Angel of the vision says, "... some subjects of the seven last plagues ..." and {B2} Ellen G White recounts later, "... some subjects for the seven last plagues ..."
Group 3 - {C1} Angel of the vision says, "... some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus. ..." {C2} and Ellen G White recounts later, "... and some would be translated to heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death. ..."
[3] Both the Angel and the Messenger of the Lord, Ellen G White are in agreement about these things and these 3 groups and are not in disharmony at any point and we shall consider each of those three groups in a bit, more specifically, and even a specific phrase therein.Group 2 - {B1} Angel of the vision says, "... some subjects of the seven last plagues ..." and {B2} Ellen G White recounts later, "... some subjects for the seven last plagues ..."
Group 3 - {C1} Angel of the vision says, "... some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus. ..." {C2} and Ellen G White recounts later, "... and some would be translated to heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death. ..."
Moving onto the condition briefly, we shall consider that the coming of the LORD, the 2nd Advent, is immanent, but even though God knows the exact time in which He has allotted and set for mercy and then Judgment, the coming may happen faster than the allotted time by God, as it may be affected by the people of God, and thus there is a condition in which the vision could have been fulfilled sooner, rather than later as it now shall be. Two verses for the moment:
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 2 Peter 3:12
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14
Therefore, the vision is simply tarrying and will come to pass as it is written, and not failed {this will be demonstrated in a post to come, utilizing the Special Resurrection itself} -And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. Matthew 24:14
For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Habakkuk 2:3
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OK it was earlier said,
"Therefore, the vision is simply tarrying and will come to pass as it is written, and not failed {this will be demonstrated in a post to come, utilizing the Special Resurrection itself} -
Before we answer these very serious questions, we need to declare, without obfuscation, that "Yes, all who were present {whomever they all were exactly, as I am not aware of anyone that knew fully, though there was some general idea, several lists existing of that possible makeup} at that 1856 Conference specified by/in the vision are all laid in their graves. There are none of them that are presently breathing with us today. So instead of asking as Peter, "...which is he that betrayeth thee?" and "...Lord, and what shall this man do?" We ought to receive the answer Jesus gave to Peter:
No, the vision has not failed, not at all, and is very true, for it is simply tarrying in fulfillment and is yet to be fulfilled in the very near future. The misunderstanding is in the very nature and definition of the words, "...without seeing death." and what that means Scripturally.
The key to the answer of this whole vision is not only found in the Special Resurrection, but in the way in which we as Seventh-day Adventist have understanding in regards to the state of the dead as it is written in Scripture.
For instance, What do we as Seventh-day Adventists know in regards to those who have gone to their graves? Are they truly dead, or are they merely sleeping until they are awakened again?
They are simply asleep, and have not seen the death as described in the prophecy {and the death referred to will include two things, [1] a primary, and [2] a secondary application in addition to [1]}. Allow me to demonstrate this.
Jesus Himself stated of Lazarus, whom he loved, or to the little girl of Jairus, &c as not being dead, in the second death, but merely asleep:
[Little Girl]
Let us now turn our attention to this specific phrase, "...without seeing death." and see what the Scripture has to say, and if there are any Biblical examples of a group of people that were laid in their graves, but like as the vision is declaring {as we will see shortly}, truly did not see death, but merely sleep and were awakened and given immortality and translated and taken back to Heaven with Jesus. Such [1] a group exists in Scripture, and even [2] a specific example of a single person also.
"Therefore, the vision is simply tarrying and will come to pass as it is written, and not failed {this will be demonstrated in a post to come, utilizing the Special Resurrection itself} -
For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Habakkuk 2:3"
The question immediately arises, "How can the vision of a specific 1856 Conference of Seventh-day Adventists, and the specific people therein, that both the vision and angel references, tarry past all their going to their graves? Isn't it plain that Ellen G. White is in her grave and those that were at the Conference {though, I am only aware of speculative lists which exist put together by certain members of the SDA as to exact numbers/persons} are all long since laid in their graves?"
Before we answer these very serious questions, we need to declare, without obfuscation, that "Yes, all who were present {whomever they all were exactly, as I am not aware of anyone that knew fully, though there was some general idea, several lists existing of that possible makeup} at that 1856 Conference specified by/in the vision are all laid in their graves. There are none of them that are presently breathing with us today. So instead of asking as Peter, "...which is he that betrayeth thee?" and "...Lord, and what shall this man do?" We ought to receive the answer Jesus gave to Peter:
Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me. John 21:22
Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? John 21:23
Therefore, like the disciples before, there has been an ongoing misunderstanding about how the fulfillment of this "food for worms" prophecy was to take place, especially of those that it was stated, Then went this saying abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die; but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? John 21:23
As the Angel of the vision said, "...some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus. ..."
or
As Ellen G. White later recounted, "...some would be translated to heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death."
or if the vision is truly false or failed. But listen again to the words of John, gone before:
This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. John 21:24
The prophecy of Jesus is true, and the prophecy given to Ellen G White is also true. How is the prophecy given to Ellen. G. White true though if they of that 1856 Conference are all laid in their graves, for Ellen G. White specifically says, "...some would be translated to heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death."? It says clearly, "...without seeing death." and they are all dead, laid in their graves. Therefore it failed, didn't it?
No, the vision has not failed, not at all, and is very true, for it is simply tarrying in fulfillment and is yet to be fulfilled in the very near future. The misunderstanding is in the very nature and definition of the words, "...without seeing death." and what that means Scripturally.
The key to the answer of this whole vision is not only found in the Special Resurrection, but in the way in which we as Seventh-day Adventist have understanding in regards to the state of the dead as it is written in Scripture.
For instance, What do we as Seventh-day Adventists know in regards to those who have gone to their graves? Are they truly dead, or are they merely sleeping until they are awakened again?
They are simply asleep, and have not seen the death as described in the prophecy {and the death referred to will include two things, [1] a primary, and [2] a secondary application in addition to [1]}. Allow me to demonstrate this.
Jesus Himself stated of Lazarus, whom he loved, or to the little girl of Jairus, &c as not being dead, in the second death, but merely asleep:
[Little Girl]
While he spake these things unto them, behold, there came a certain ruler, and worshipped him, saying, My daughter is even now dead: but come and lay thy hand upon her, and she shall live. Matthew 9:18
He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. Matthew 9:24
But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose. Matthew 9:25
*******
While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's [house certain] which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? Mark 5:35
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. Mark 5:39
And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. Mark 5:40
And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. Mark 5:41
*******
While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's [house], saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master. Luke 8:49
And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. Luke 8:52
And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. Luke 8:53
And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. Luke 8:54
Do we believe Jesus, or shall we also laugh Him to scorn for saying such?
[Lazarus]He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn. Matthew 9:24
But when the people were put forth, he went in, and took her by the hand, and the maid arose. Matthew 9:25
*******
While he yet spake, there came from the ruler of the synagogue's [house certain] which said, Thy daughter is dead: why troublest thou the Master any further? Mark 5:35
And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth. Mark 5:39
And they laughed him to scorn. But when he had put them all out, he taketh the father and the mother of the damsel, and them that were with him, and entereth in where the damsel was lying. Mark 5:40
And he took the damsel by the hand, and said unto her, Talitha cumi; which is, being interpreted, Damsel, I say unto thee, arise. Mark 5:41
*******
While he yet spake, there cometh one from the ruler of the synagogue's [house], saying to him, Thy daughter is dead; trouble not the Master. Luke 8:49
And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth. Luke 8:52
And they laughed him to scorn, knowing that she was dead. Luke 8:53
And he put them all out, and took her by the hand, and called, saying, Maid, arise. Luke 8:54
Do we believe Jesus, or shall we also laugh Him to scorn for saying such?
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. John 11:11
Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. John 11:13
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:14
Then when Jesus came, he found that he had [lain] in the grave four days already. John 11:17
Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:21
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. John 11:23
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 11:24
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25
Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:32
And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? John 11:37
Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. John 11:38
Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days. John 11:39
Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. John 11:41
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. John 11:43
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. John 11:44
This is given all throughout the Scriptures:Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep. John 11:13
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead. John 11:14
Then when Jesus came, he found that he had [lain] in the grave four days already. John 11:17
Then said Martha unto Jesus, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:21
Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. John 11:23
Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. John 11:24
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: John 11:25
Then when Mary was come where Jesus was, and saw him, she fell down at his feet, saying unto him, Lord, if thou hadst been here, my brother had not died. John 11:32
And some of them said, Could not this man, which opened the eyes of the blind, have caused that even this man should not have died? John 11:37
Jesus therefore again groaning in himself cometh to the grave. It was a cave, and a stone lay upon it. John 11:38
Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days. John 11:39
Then they took away the stone [from the place] where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up [his] eyes, and said, Father, I thank thee that thou hast heard me. John 11:41
And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, come forth. John 11:43
And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. Jesus saith unto them, Loose him, and let him go. John 11:44
[sleep, asleep, sleepeth] Deuteronomy 31:16; 2 Samuel 7:12; Job 3:13, 7:21, 14:12; 1 Kings 1:21, 2:10, 11:21,43, 14:20,31, 15:8,24, 16:6,28, 22:40,50; 2 Kings 8:24, 10:35, 13:9,13, 14:16,22,29, 15:7,22,38, 16:20, 20:21, 21:18, 24:6; 2 Chronicles 9:31, 12:16, 14:1, 16:13, 21:1, 26:2,23, 27:9, 28:27, 32:33, 33:20; Job 14:12; Psalms 13:3; Matthew 27:52; John 11:11-13; Acts 7:60, 13:36; 1 Corinthians 15:6,18,20,51; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15; 2 Peter 3:4; [awake] Job 14:12; Psalms 17:15; Isaiah 26:19; Daniel 12:2; John 11:11-13; [grave/bed] Job 17:13; Psalms 139:8; Luke 17:34; [fathers and prophets are dead] John 6:49,58, 8:52,53; Acts 2:29,34, 13:36; Hebrews 11:4,13,16,40
Therefore, knowing this to be the case, those that have been laid into their graves, even especially those whom Jesus loved, are not actually Dead {2nd Death}, but simply sleeping, in Christ Jesus, until their respective resurrections!
Let us now turn our attention to this specific phrase, "...without seeing death." and see what the Scripture has to say, and if there are any Biblical examples of a group of people that were laid in their graves, but like as the vision is declaring {as we will see shortly}, truly did not see death, but merely sleep and were awakened and given immortality and translated and taken back to Heaven with Jesus. Such [1] a group exists in Scripture, and even [2] a specific example of a single person also.
[1] The selected ones {some around Jerusalem} raised at Christ's own resurrection {Matt 27:51-52}
[2] Moses {Matt 17; Mrk 9; Luk 9; Rom 5:4; Jud 1:9}
whom both represent part of that final group {1 Peter 1:11-21} we are speaking about in this prophetic vision given to Ellen G. White.[2] Moses {Matt 17; Mrk 9; Luk 9; Rom 5:4; Jud 1:9}
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OK, the two things in regards to this "death" that they of 1856 Conference in the vision would "not see", is:
[1] The Second Death, annihilation:
Enoch:
[1] The Second Death, annihilation:
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 2:1
Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:14
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:1
&c
[sin/sinners gone forever, cut off, perished, no more, destroyed, passed away, etc] Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 25:8, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 7:17, 20:9, 21:4
John 3:16 says Perish or Everlasting Life {the wicked receive no such gift as everlasting life [there are no immortalized wicked anywhere and never will be], it is only a gift to the saved/just/righteous}.
[2] The martyrdom through the death decree that goes forward at the end:Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:14
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Revelation 21:8
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. Malachi 4:1
&c
[sin/sinners gone forever, cut off, perished, no more, destroyed, passed away, etc] Job 20:26,29, 31:2-3; Psalms 7:9, 9:17, 11:6, 21:9, 37:10, 37:20, 37:28,38, 68:2, 69:28, 75:8,10, 92:7,9, 104:35, 106:18, 112:10, 145:20; Proverbs 2:22, 10:25,28,30, 12:7, 13:9, 14:11, 24:20; Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20; Isaiah 13:9, 25:8, 66:17,24; Nahum 1:10; Obadiah 1:16; Zephaniah 1:2-3; Malachi 4:1; Matthew 10:28; John 3:16; Romans 6:23; Hebrews 6:8; James 1:15; 2 Peter 3:10; Revelation 7:17, 20:9, 21:4
John 3:16 says Perish or Everlasting Life {the wicked receive no such gift as everlasting life [there are no immortalized wicked anywhere and never will be], it is only a gift to the saved/just/righteous}.
But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. Daniel 11:44
And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Revelation 6:11
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4
Also he gave him the copy of the writing of the decree that was given at Shushan to destroy them, to shew it unto Esther, and to declare it unto her, and to charge her that she should go in unto the king, to make supplication unto him, and to make request before him for her people. Esther 4:8
But the Egyptians pursued after them, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, and his army, and overtook them encamping by the sea, beside Pihahiroth, before Baalzephon. Exodus 14:9
&c
Ok, now let us consider the words "...without seeing death." more closely. Does it mean that a person will not be laid in the grave at all, or can it mean two things?:And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Revelation 6:11
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Revelation 20:4
Also he gave him the copy of the writing of the decree that was given at Shushan to destroy them, to shew it unto Esther, and to declare it unto her, and to charge her that she should go in unto the king, to make supplication unto him, and to make request before him for her people. Esther 4:8
But the Egyptians pursued after them, all the horses and chariots of Pharaoh, and his horsemen, and his army, and overtook them encamping by the sea, beside Pihahiroth, before Baalzephon. Exodus 14:9
&c
[1] never to be laid in the grave at all, never seeing/tasting the sleep of the first death, neither the second death.
[2] laid in the grave temporarily, in the state of first death, called "sleep" in Scripture, to be awakened at a later time and not see/taste the second death.
In the first [1] instance, we have but to consider the lives of Enoch and Elijah from the Scriptures to see that these two never were laid in the grave, never seeing the sleep, but were directly taken to Heaven "without seeing death", never martyred, and and also will never see the second death:[2] laid in the grave temporarily, in the state of first death, called "sleep" in Scripture, to be awakened at a later time and not see/taste the second death.
Enoch:
And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him. Genesis 5:24
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:5
Elijah:By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:5
And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. 2 Kings 2:1
And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. 2 Kings 2:3
And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. 2 Kings 2:5
And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. 2 Kings 2:9
And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. 2 Kings 2:10
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2 Kings 2:11
And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. 2 Kings 2:12
In the second [2] instance we have several examples of those which have been laid into the grave, "fell on sleep" {Acts 13:36}, and were yet awakened before the second Advent. {A} Most of whom fell on sleep again, and laid back into the grave temporarily, to be later again awoken at the 2nd advent of Jesus and {B} some or few who fell on sleep, but were awoken before the 2nd Advent of Jesus and were taken to heaven:And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. 2 Kings 2:3
And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. 2 Kings 2:5
And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. 2 Kings 2:9
And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. 2 Kings 2:10
And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven. 2 Kings 2:11
And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces. 2 Kings 2:12
The LORD killeth, and maketh alive: he bringeth down to the grave, and bringeth up. 1 Samuel 2:6
I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Matthew 22:32
&c.
{A} Those whom "fell on sleep", but were temporarily awakened to only fall on sleep again, to be permanently awoken at the 2nd Advent of Jesus:I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. Matthew 22:32
&c.
Elijah raises the Widow of Zarephath's [1 Kings 17:17-24];
Elijah raises the son of the Shunamite Woman [2 Kings 4:18-37];
A man and Elisha's Bones [2 Kings 13:20-21];
The Valley of Bones, the Resurrected Army [Ezekiel 37:1-14];
Jesus raises the Widow of Nain's Son [Luke 7:11-17];
Jesus raises Jairus's Daughter [Matthew 9:18,19,23-26; Mark 5:22-24,35-43; Luke 8:41-42,49-56];
Jesus raises Lazarus [John 11:1-47];
Peter raises Tabitha [Dorcas] [Acts 9:36-42];
Paul raises Eutychus [Acts 20:9-12];
Paul himself may have been raised, or at least miraculously healed from stoning [Acts 14:19-20].
{B} Those whom "fell on sleep", but were awoken permanently and taken to Heaven before the 2nd Advent of Jesus:Elijah raises the son of the Shunamite Woman [2 Kings 4:18-37];
A man and Elisha's Bones [2 Kings 13:20-21];
The Valley of Bones, the Resurrected Army [Ezekiel 37:1-14];
Jesus raises the Widow of Nain's Son [Luke 7:11-17];
Jesus raises Jairus's Daughter [Matthew 9:18,19,23-26; Mark 5:22-24,35-43; Luke 8:41-42,49-56];
Jesus raises Lazarus [John 11:1-47];
Peter raises Tabitha [Dorcas] [Acts 9:36-42];
Paul raises Eutychus [Acts 20:9-12];
Paul himself may have been raised, or at least miraculously healed from stoning [Acts 14:19-20].
Moses [Matthew 17; Mark 9; Luke 9; 2 Peter 1:16; Romans 5:14; Jude 1:9]
Select Group around the locality of Jerusalem [Psalms 68:18; Isaiah 26:19; Matthew 27:52,53; Ephesians 4:8]
Jesus' Resurrection [Matthew 28:1-20; Mark 16:1-20; Luke 24:1-53; John 20:1-31; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23 &c]
The Mount of Transfiguration {Matthew 17; Mark 9; Luke 9} and Peters words {2 Peter 1:10-21} declare for those groups [1] and [2b], that we shall see at the end, both witnessing the 2nd Coming of Jesus in Power and Glory:Select Group around the locality of Jerusalem [Psalms 68:18; Isaiah 26:19; Matthew 27:52,53; Ephesians 4:8]
Jesus' Resurrection [Matthew 28:1-20; Mark 16:1-20; Luke 24:1-53; John 20:1-31; 1 Corinthians 15:20,23 &c]
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works. Matthew 16:27
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27
*******
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Peter 1:10
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:11
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance; 2 Peter 1:13
Knowing that shortly I must put off [this] my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 2 Peter 1:14
Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 2 Peter 1:15
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21
Now, let us look at some more passages which will help us in understanding what Jesus and the Angel meant by "...without seeing death.", and then consider the vision again, in this light, along with the Special Resurrection and see how the vision is for a time yet future, and simply tarries, and see how all three groups, mentioned before [Link] will be found therein.Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1
For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. Luke 9:26
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27
*******
Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: 2 Peter 1:10
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. 2 Peter 1:11
Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know [them], and be established in the present truth. 2 Peter 1:12
Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting [you] in remembrance; 2 Peter 1:13
Knowing that shortly I must put off [this] my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me. 2 Peter 1:14
Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance. 2 Peter 1:15
For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 2 Peter 1:16
For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. 2 Peter 1:17
And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount. 2 Peter 1:18
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 2 Peter 1:19
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 2 Peter 1:20
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake [as they were] moved by the Holy Ghost. 2 Peter 1:21
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OK, the phrase, "...without seeing death." what does Jesus say in regards to this?
Jesus said some very interesting things in relation to this phrase. In fact, Jesus said something to His Disciples {referencing, Peter, James and John), which was almost exactly the same as to what the Angel said in the Vision given to Ellen G. White {I refer back to Group 3 [Link]}:
Jesus also said elsewhere,
All those in the 1856 Conference have all gone to their graves, but for some, as stated in the vision, will not see death, but will be alive {awakened unto life}, to see Jesus coming in the clouds. This means that they must be alive before the moment of His coming in order to see Him coming, and therefore, these special ones, will be awakened from their slumber, to be alive with those that were already alive at the last moments of this present earth's history {1 Thessalonians 5:17}. This happens in the Special Resurrection {Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13 &c}, but they are not yet given immortality until Jesus is in the air above the earth. For those in the First Great Resurrection do not awake until Jesus is already here above the earth, sounding the Trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
Therefore:
Group 1 - "food for worms", shall be those that will perish, not being found in Christ Jesus, even to be raised in the second great resurrection, and shall appear with satan, and all his hosts on the desolate earth, the wilderness of owls {unclean bird of the night, fallen angels} and dragons {satan}:
Jesus said some very interesting things in relation to this phrase. In fact, Jesus said something to His Disciples {referencing, Peter, James and John), which was almost exactly the same as to what the Angel said in the Vision given to Ellen G. White {I refer back to Group 3 [Link]}:
Group 3 - {C1} Angel of the vision says, "... some will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus. ..." {C2} and Ellen G White recounts later, "... and some would be translated to heaven at the second coming of Christ, without seeing death. ..."
Notice the similarity:
Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. Matthew 16:28
And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27
Well, Jesus obviously told the truth and even stated as such, clearly. Who will then fault the Angel that spake to Ellen G. White? For those which deny the words, are denying the true words of witness of someone much higher than she.And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Mark 9:1
But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God. Luke 9:27
Jesus also said elsewhere,
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. John 5:24
*******
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. John 8:52
*******
When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. John 11:24
Even Paul, and others said:*******
Verily, verily, I say unto you, If a man keep my saying, he shall never see death. John 8:51
Then said the Jews unto him, Now we know that thou hast a devil. Abraham is dead, and the prophets; and thou sayest, If a man keep my saying, he shall never taste of death. John 8:52
*******
When Jesus heard that, he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby. John 11:24
Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver us; 2 Corinthians 1:10
But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Titus 1:10
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Hebrews 2:9
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:5
James:But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: 2 Titus 1:10
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. Hebrews 2:9
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God. Hebrews 11:5
Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins. James 5:20
John:
We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. 1 John 3:4
If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 1 John 5:16 {this speaks of the difference between every sin which may be forgiven if confessed, forsaken and repented of, and the one sin of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, refusing to turn, which is unto death}
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 2:11
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6
We could even see how such a passage in Luke as the following is similar, for though it refers to the First Advent, there are those Holy ones that will be alive to see the Second Advent and not see death:If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. 1 John 5:16 {this speaks of the difference between every sin which may be forgiven if confessed, forsaken and repented of, and the one sin of the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, refusing to turn, which is unto death}
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 2:11
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. Revelation 20:6
And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ. Luke 2:26
A passage found in the OT, asks a very interesting question, and we find the answer in scripture there is none who of themselves can deliver, but Christ Jesus can so deliver:
What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah. Psalms 89:48
Therefore, we see, as Jesus and others have said, the Christian does not actually see death, which is the 2nd death, but merely falls into sleep, to be awakened at a later time. So we see that the faithful ones, that continued to abide in Jesus and believe unto the end, have passed from death {being the second death} unto life {being eternal life}.
All those in the 1856 Conference have all gone to their graves, but for some, as stated in the vision, will not see death, but will be alive {awakened unto life}, to see Jesus coming in the clouds. This means that they must be alive before the moment of His coming in order to see Him coming, and therefore, these special ones, will be awakened from their slumber, to be alive with those that were already alive at the last moments of this present earth's history {1 Thessalonians 5:17}. This happens in the Special Resurrection {Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13 &c}, but they are not yet given immortality until Jesus is in the air above the earth. For those in the First Great Resurrection do not awake until Jesus is already here above the earth, sounding the Trumpet in 1 Thessalonians 4:16.
Therefore:
Group 1 - "food for worms", shall be those that will perish, not being found in Christ Jesus, even to be raised in the second great resurrection, and shall appear with satan, and all his hosts on the desolate earth, the wilderness of owls {unclean bird of the night, fallen angels} and dragons {satan}:
Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. Mark 9:44,46,48
I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister. Job 17:14
They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them. Job 21:26
The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree. Job 24:20
Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. Isaiah 14:11
For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation. Isaiah 51:8
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:24
I have said to corruption, Thou art my father: to the worm, Thou art my mother, and my sister. Job 17:14
They shall lie down alike in the dust, and the worms shall cover them. Job 21:26
The womb shall forget him; the worm shall feed sweetly on him; he shall be no more remembered; and wickedness shall be broken as a tree. Job 24:20
Thy pomp is brought down to the grave, and the noise of thy viols: the worm is spread under thee, and the worms cover thee. Isaiah 14:11
For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation. Isaiah 51:8
And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh. Isaiah 66:24
{{second great} resurrection {of the wicked, unjust, damnation, at the end/close of the 1000 years, when Christ Jesus and all of the Saints {then immortal} descend to Earth in New Jerusalem upon the Mount of Olives, and the Great White Throne Judgment takes place; Zechariah 14; Revelation 20}} John 5:29b; Acts 17:31, 24:15b; Revelation 20:5a
{resurrection of unjust/damnation takes place on earth} Revelation 20:5,7-15
Group 2 - "subject of the seven last plagues", shall be those unfaithful wicked that were not only not found in Christ Jesus, but which purposefully, directly, vehemently and most violently opposed Him, whether warring openly or secretly, persecuting Him {Acts 9:4-5, 22:7-8, 26:14-15; 1 Timothy 1:13; 1 Peter 4:18} in His prophets/Messengers and His Jerusalem {His people}, whether in word or in deed, shall be specially raised {Daniel 12:2 &c} suffering not only the last plagues, but destruction, and to be raised again even in the final 2nd resurrection also:{resurrection of unjust/damnation takes place on earth} Revelation 20:5,7-15
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 26:64
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:62
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7
Group 3 - "will be alive and remain upon the earth, to be translated at the coming of Jesus ... without seeing death.", will be those special ones that were faithful, and sealed by God, living under the power of the Three Angels Messages {Revelation 14:6-12, 18:1-24}, and these which have been laid in their grave, having "fallen on sleep" will be specially raised to see Jesus come, and shall not see the second death, nor be martyred of the last death decree:Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Matthew 26:64
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. Mark 14:62
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. Revelation 1:7
And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:12
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:13
Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Daniel 12:12
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them. Revelation 14:13
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Therefore, the Special Resurrection is the Key, the phrase "...without seeing death" now understood, and the condition that the vision could have happened sooner, rather than later, and we thus have the answer to this vision, clear from the Scriptures, confirmed by the Spirit of Prophecy:
The General Sequence:
1. Michael stands up; Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25; Revelation 22:11, &c: Probation closes
{{first great} resurrection {of the saints, just, life, before/at start of the 1000 years when Christ Jesus returns in Power and Glory}, raised} 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Romans 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; Revelation 20:5b,6; {]All the Holy "Clouds" of Angels {the "reapers"} with Him} Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7
The General Sequence:
1. Michael stands up; Daniel 12:1; Luke 13:25; Revelation 22:11, &c: Probation closes
{Great Controversy; Page 613}
"... At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1.
When the third angels message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
2. Time of Trouble; Psalms 27:5, 37:39; Isaiah 33:2; Daniel 12:1 &c - KJV Search Results for "time" AND "trouble""... At that time shall Michael stand up, the great Prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, everyone that shall be found written in the book. Daniel 12:1.
When the third angels message closes, mercy no longer pleads for the guilty inhabitants of the earth. The people of God have accomplished their work. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
{Great Controversy; Page 613}
"... They have received the latter rain, the refreshing from the presence of the Lord, and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received the seal of the living God. Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, It is done; and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people ..." -
Ellen G. White Writings
3. Gods people delivered; Proverbs 11:21, 28:26; Isaiah 49:25; Ezekiel 14:16,18; Daniel 12:1; Joel 2:32; Romans 8:21 &c; "... They have received the latter rain, the refreshing from the presence of the Lord, and they are prepared for the trying hour before them. Angels are hastening to and fro in heaven. An angel returning from the earth announces that his work is done; the final test has been brought upon the world, and all who have proved themselves loyal to the divine precepts have received the seal of the living God. Then Jesus ceases His intercession in the sanctuary above. He lifts His hands and with a loud voice says, It is done; and all the angelic host lay off their crowns as He makes the solemn announcement: He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. Revelation 22:11. Every case has been decided for life or death. Christ has made the atonement for His people ..." -
Ellen G. White Writings
{Great Controversy; Page 635-636}
"... When the protection of human laws shall be withdrawn from those who honor the law of God, there will be, in different lands, a simultaneous movement for their destruction. As the time appointed in the decree draws near, the people will conspire to root out the hated sect. It will be determined to strike in one night a decisive blow, which shall utterly silence the voice of dissent and reproof.
The people of Godsome in prison cells, some hidden in solitary retreats in the forests and the mountainsstill plead for divine protection, while in every quarter companies of armed men, urged on by hosts of evil angels, are preparing for the work of death. It is now, in the hour of utmost extremity, that the God of Israel will interpose for the deliverance of His chosen. Saith the Lord; Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth ... to come into the mountain of the Lord, to the Mighty One of Israel. And the Lord shall cause His glorious voice to be heard, and shall show the lighting down of His arm, with the indignation of His anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones. Isaiah 30:29, 30.
With shouts of triumph, jeering, and imprecation, throngs of evil men are about to rush upon their prey, when, lo, a [Page 635-636] dense blackness, deeper than the darkness of the night, falls upon the earth. Then a rainbow, shining with the glory from the throne of God, spans the heavens and seems to encircle each praying company. The angry multitudes are suddenly arrested. Their mocking cries die away. The objects of their murderous rage are forgotten. With fearful forebodings they gaze upon the symbol of Gods covenant and long to be shielded from its overpowering brightness.
By the people of God a voice, clear and melodious, is heard, saying, Look up, and lifting their eyes to the heavens, they behold the bow of promise. The black, angry clouds that covered the firmament are parted, and like Stephen they look up steadfastly into heaven and see the glory of God and the Son of man seated upon His throne. In His divine form they discern the marks of His humiliation; and from His lips they hear the request presented before His Father and the holy angels: I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am. John 17:24. Again a voice, musical and triumphant, is heard, saying: They come! they come! holy, harmless, and undefiled. They have kept the word of My patience; they shall walk among the angels; and the pale, quivering lips of those who have held fast their faith utter a shout of victory.
It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. The sun appears, shining in its strength. Signs and wonders follow in quick succession. The wicked look with terror and amazement upon the scene, while the righteous behold with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Everything in nature seems turned out of its course. The streams cease to flow. Dark, heavy clouds come up and clash against each other. In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying: It is done. Revelation 16:17. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
4. Special Resurrection; Daniel 12:2,12; Matthew 26:64; Mark 14:62; Revelation 1:7, 14:13 &c"... When the protection of human laws shall be withdrawn from those who honor the law of God, there will be, in different lands, a simultaneous movement for their destruction. As the time appointed in the decree draws near, the people will conspire to root out the hated sect. It will be determined to strike in one night a decisive blow, which shall utterly silence the voice of dissent and reproof.
The people of Godsome in prison cells, some hidden in solitary retreats in the forests and the mountainsstill plead for divine protection, while in every quarter companies of armed men, urged on by hosts of evil angels, are preparing for the work of death. It is now, in the hour of utmost extremity, that the God of Israel will interpose for the deliverance of His chosen. Saith the Lord; Ye shall have a song, as in the night when a holy solemnity is kept; and gladness of heart, as when one goeth ... to come into the mountain of the Lord, to the Mighty One of Israel. And the Lord shall cause His glorious voice to be heard, and shall show the lighting down of His arm, with the indignation of His anger, and with the flame of a devouring fire, with scattering, and tempest, and hailstones. Isaiah 30:29, 30.
With shouts of triumph, jeering, and imprecation, throngs of evil men are about to rush upon their prey, when, lo, a [Page 635-636] dense blackness, deeper than the darkness of the night, falls upon the earth. Then a rainbow, shining with the glory from the throne of God, spans the heavens and seems to encircle each praying company. The angry multitudes are suddenly arrested. Their mocking cries die away. The objects of their murderous rage are forgotten. With fearful forebodings they gaze upon the symbol of Gods covenant and long to be shielded from its overpowering brightness.
By the people of God a voice, clear and melodious, is heard, saying, Look up, and lifting their eyes to the heavens, they behold the bow of promise. The black, angry clouds that covered the firmament are parted, and like Stephen they look up steadfastly into heaven and see the glory of God and the Son of man seated upon His throne. In His divine form they discern the marks of His humiliation; and from His lips they hear the request presented before His Father and the holy angels: I will that they also, whom Thou hast given Me, be with Me where I am. John 17:24. Again a voice, musical and triumphant, is heard, saying: They come! they come! holy, harmless, and undefiled. They have kept the word of My patience; they shall walk among the angels; and the pale, quivering lips of those who have held fast their faith utter a shout of victory.
It is at midnight that God manifests His power for the deliverance of His people. The sun appears, shining in its strength. Signs and wonders follow in quick succession. The wicked look with terror and amazement upon the scene, while the righteous behold with solemn joy the tokens of their deliverance. Everything in nature seems turned out of its course. The streams cease to flow. Dark, heavy clouds come up and clash against each other. In the midst of the angry heavens is one clear space of indescribable glory, whence comes the voice of God like the sound of many waters, saying: It is done. Revelation 16:17. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
{Great Controversy; Page 637}
"... Graves are opened, and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth... awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angels message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear Gods covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. They also which pierced Him (Revelation 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christs dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
5. Voice of God announcing the hour; Jeremiah 25:30; Joel 2:11, 3:16; Amos 1:2; Job 40:9; Psalms 18:13, 77:18, 104:7; 1 Samuel 2:10; 2 Samuel 22:14; Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32; John 12:29; 2 Peter 1:17-18; Revelation 14:2; &c"... Graves are opened, and many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth... awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2. All who have died in the faith of the third angels message come forth from the tomb glorified, to hear Gods covenant of peace with those who have kept His law. They also which pierced Him (Revelation 1:7), those that mocked and derided Christs dying agonies, and the most violent opposers of His truth and His people, are raised to behold Him in His glory and to see the honor placed upon the loyal and obedient. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
{Great Controversy; Page 640}
"... The voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus coming, and delivering the everlasting covenant to His people. Like peals of loudest thunder His words roll through the earth. The Israel of God stand listening, with their eyes fixed upward. Their countenances are lighted up with His glory, and shine as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked cannot look upon them. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
6. Small black cloud; See Elijah in 1 Kings 18:43-46, also Ezekiel 1:4; Isaiah 19:1; Matthew 24:30; Revelation 14:14-16; &c"... The voice of God is heard from heaven, declaring the day and hour of Jesus coming, and delivering the everlasting covenant to His people. Like peals of loudest thunder His words roll through the earth. The Israel of God stand listening, with their eyes fixed upward. Their countenances are lighted up with His glory, and shine as did the face of Moses when he came down from Sinai. The wicked cannot look upon them. And when the blessing is pronounced on those who have honored God by keeping His Sabbath holy, there is a mighty shout of victory. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
{Great Controversy; Page 640-642 &c; Maranatha; Page 287}
"... Soon there appears in the east a small black cloud, about half the size of a mans hand. It is the cloud which surrounds the Saviour and which seems in the distance to be shrouded in darkness. The people of God know this to be the sign of the Son of man. In solemn silence they gaze upon it as it [Page 640-641] draws nearer the earth, becoming lighter and more glorious, until it is a great white cloud, its base a glory like consuming fire, and above it the rainbow of the covenant. Jesus rides forth as a mighty conqueror. Not now a Man of Sorrows, to drink the bitter cup of shame and woe, He comes, victor in heaven and earth, to judge the living and the dead. Faithful and True, in righteousness He doth judge and make war. And the armies which were in heaven (Revelation 19:11, 14) follow Him. With anthems of celestial melody the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng, attend Him on His way. The firmament seems filled with radiant formsten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands. No human pen can portray the scene; no mortal mind is adequate to conceive its splendor. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of His praise. And His brightness was as the light. Habakkuk 3:3, 4. As the living cloud comes still nearer, every eye beholds the Prince of life. No crown of thorns now mars that sacred head; but a diadem of glory rests on His holy brow. His countenance outshines the dazzling brightness of the noonday sun. And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, King of kings, and Lord of lords. Revelation 19:16.
Before His presence all faces are turned into paleness; upon the rejecters of Gods mercy falls the terror of eternal despair. The heart melteth, and the knees smite together, ... and the faces of them all gather blackness. Jeremiah 30:6; Nahum 2:10. The righteous cry with trembling: Who shall be able to stand? The angels song is hushed, and there is a period of awful silence. Then the voice of Jesus is heard, saying: My grace is sufficient for you. The faces of the righteous are lighted up, and joy fills every heart. And the angels strike a note higher and sing again as they draw still nearer to the earth.
The King of kings descends upon the cloud, wrapped in flaming fire. The heavens are rolled together as a scroll, the earth trembles before Him, and every mountain and island [Page 641-642] is moved out of its place. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people. Psalm 50:3, 4. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
7. General First Great Resurrection "... Soon there appears in the east a small black cloud, about half the size of a mans hand. It is the cloud which surrounds the Saviour and which seems in the distance to be shrouded in darkness. The people of God know this to be the sign of the Son of man. In solemn silence they gaze upon it as it [Page 640-641] draws nearer the earth, becoming lighter and more glorious, until it is a great white cloud, its base a glory like consuming fire, and above it the rainbow of the covenant. Jesus rides forth as a mighty conqueror. Not now a Man of Sorrows, to drink the bitter cup of shame and woe, He comes, victor in heaven and earth, to judge the living and the dead. Faithful and True, in righteousness He doth judge and make war. And the armies which were in heaven (Revelation 19:11, 14) follow Him. With anthems of celestial melody the holy angels, a vast, unnumbered throng, attend Him on His way. The firmament seems filled with radiant formsten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands. No human pen can portray the scene; no mortal mind is adequate to conceive its splendor. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of His praise. And His brightness was as the light. Habakkuk 3:3, 4. As the living cloud comes still nearer, every eye beholds the Prince of life. No crown of thorns now mars that sacred head; but a diadem of glory rests on His holy brow. His countenance outshines the dazzling brightness of the noonday sun. And He hath on His vesture and on His thigh a name written, King of kings, and Lord of lords. Revelation 19:16.
Before His presence all faces are turned into paleness; upon the rejecters of Gods mercy falls the terror of eternal despair. The heart melteth, and the knees smite together, ... and the faces of them all gather blackness. Jeremiah 30:6; Nahum 2:10. The righteous cry with trembling: Who shall be able to stand? The angels song is hushed, and there is a period of awful silence. Then the voice of Jesus is heard, saying: My grace is sufficient for you. The faces of the righteous are lighted up, and joy fills every heart. And the angels strike a note higher and sing again as they draw still nearer to the earth.
The King of kings descends upon the cloud, wrapped in flaming fire. The heavens are rolled together as a scroll, the earth trembles before Him, and every mountain and island [Page 641-642] is moved out of its place. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before Him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about Him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that He may judge His people. Psalm 50:3, 4. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
{{first great} resurrection {of the saints, just, life, before/at start of the 1000 years when Christ Jesus returns in Power and Glory}, raised} 1 Samuel 2:6; Job 14:12-14, 19:26; Hosea 13:14; Matthew 22:31; Mark 12:18,23,25; Luke 14:14, 20:35,36; John 5:29a, 6:25,28,29,39,40,44,54, 11:24,25; Acts 4:2, 17:31,32, 23:6, 24:15a,21; Romans 6:5,8, 8:11; 1 Corinthians 15:12,13,16,20,21,23,29,32,35,42,43,52-55; Philippians 3:10,11; Colossians 3:3; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17; 2 Timothy 2:18, 4:1; Hebrews 6:2, 11:35; Revelation 20:5b,6; {]All the Holy "Clouds" of Angels {the "reapers"} with Him} Psalms 68:17, 104:3; Isaiah 66:15; Matthew 13:39,49, 16:27, 24:30, 25:31,51, 26:64; Mark 8:38, 13:27; Luke 9:26, 21:27; Acts 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 3:13, 4:16-17; Hebrews 1:7; Revelation 1:7, 12:7
{Great Controversy; Page 644}
"... Amid the reeling of the earth, the flash of lightning, and the roar of thunder, the voice of the Son of God calls forth the sleeping saints. He looks upon the graves of the righteous, then, raising His hands to heaven, He cries: Awake, awake, awake, ye that sleep in the dust, and arise! Throughout the length and breadth of the earth the dead shall hear that voice, and they that hear shall live. And the whole earth shall ring with the tread of the exceeding great army of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. From the prison house of death they come, clothed with immortal glory, crying: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 1 Corinthians 15:55. And the living righteous and the risen saints unite their voices in a long, glad shout of victory.
All come forth from their graves the same in stature as when they entered the tomb. Adam, who stands among the risen throng, is of lofty height and majestic form, in stature but little below the Son of God. He presents a marked contrast to the people of later generations; in this one respect is shown the great degeneracy of the race. But all arise with the freshness and vigor of eternal youth. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
Therefore, as it is written, as to the vision given to Ellen G. White concerning the 1856 Conference members, it is said:"... Amid the reeling of the earth, the flash of lightning, and the roar of thunder, the voice of the Son of God calls forth the sleeping saints. He looks upon the graves of the righteous, then, raising His hands to heaven, He cries: Awake, awake, awake, ye that sleep in the dust, and arise! Throughout the length and breadth of the earth the dead shall hear that voice, and they that hear shall live. And the whole earth shall ring with the tread of the exceeding great army of every nation, kindred, tongue, and people. From the prison house of death they come, clothed with immortal glory, crying: O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? 1 Corinthians 15:55. And the living righteous and the risen saints unite their voices in a long, glad shout of victory.
All come forth from their graves the same in stature as when they entered the tomb. Adam, who stands among the risen throng, is of lofty height and majestic form, in stature but little below the Son of God. He presents a marked contrast to the people of later generations; in this one respect is shown the great degeneracy of the race. But all arise with the freshness and vigor of eternal youth. ..." - Ellen G. White Writings
For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry. Habakkuk 2:3
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I hope that this has clarified a few things about this particular vision, and its soon fulfillment, and that we no longer need to rely upon an older answer {though admirable as it was, and honest}, which does not fully satisfy the context in which the vision was given, but let us now turn to the greater light which is now shining.
Let those which have mocked the Messenger of the Lord {along with those which believed the Lord's messenger; 2 Chron 20:20, being even a trial and test unto us} be ashamed, for the words sent of the Lord Jesus Christ have not failed, nor fallen to the ground, and so in that day, let their own words testify against themselves.
Repentance and mercy is still available, turn you while you can whomsoever you are for it is written:
Let those which have mocked the Messenger of the Lord {along with those which believed the Lord's messenger; 2 Chron 20:20, being even a trial and test unto us} be ashamed, for the words sent of the Lord Jesus Christ have not failed, nor fallen to the ground, and so in that day, let their own words testify against themselves.
Repentance and mercy is still available, turn you while you can whomsoever you are for it is written:
Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand. Daniel 12:10
The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall. Proverbs 10:8
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Isaiah 55:6
"... is near, even at the doors." Matthew 24:33
"... behold, the judge standeth before the door." James 5:9
The wise in heart will receive commandments: but a prating fool shall fall. Proverbs 10:8
Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Isaiah 55:6
"... is near, even at the doors." Matthew 24:33
"... behold, the judge standeth before the door." James 5:9
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NO! NO! NO!
Ellen White herself did not feel her authority was in biblical interpretation. She saw her role as directing/encouraging people back to honest bible study and to relationship with Jesus. She did study the Bible a lot and therefore had some helpful insights at times, but she never saw herself, nor should she be held as a final interpreter of Scripture. Scripture should be interpreted using the context and references and interpretations given in the text itself or in its cultural/historical context.
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