Traditions of Justification
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shturt678
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What...
Faith is composed of knowledge, assent, and confidence where confidence is chief. RCCs cancels knowledge and confidence leaving only assent, ie, and that of only formal assent.
Don't take it too seious as Modern Lutherans do much worse today.
Humble pie Jack
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GratiaCorpusChristi
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What...
He's referring to the same thing I was talking about in post #92.
But don't ask me where the jab at "modern" Lutherans comes from.
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shturt678
Senior Veteran
Damnable lies are when the Truth is mixed with error where most unable to detect, eg, WELS, LC-MS, and ELCA after 1930 for sure, eg, Lutherans on this forum unknowingly put a twist, ie, example only, on the Doctrine of Election. Then when another Lutheran brings it to their attention, ie, view as insane to fallacious. btw I use Mr. Chemnitz' interpretation for my so called fallacious doctrine and he wasn't that insane in his helping putting together the Symbolical Books, ie, just my opinion.
btw only the 1st of about another 20 regarding the real essentials of the faith.
RCCs not even damnable as obvious.
Only to be lucid and to the point, ie, not trying to pick on anyone for sure.
Humble pie Jack
btw only the 1st of about another 20 regarding the real essentials of the faith.
RCCs not even damnable as obvious.
Only to be lucid and to the point, ie, not trying to pick on anyone for sure.
Humble pie Jack
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GratiaCorpusChristi
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Election is a good example because it relates so deeply to traditions of justification.
So how, praytell, do we Lutherans on the forum misinterpret Luther's and the Augsburg Confession's doctrine of election?
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shturt678
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The ELCA didn't before 1930.
Little more insanity you will have to reject however, ie, before 1930 the Doctrine of election: The "elect" ("called") in the "Letters," ("Epistles") including Revelation, and parts of John, eg, Jn.6:70, always denotes the effective call including conversin to running the race "inwardly" ie, aspectually, contextually, and grammatically of the writer/speaker - applicable only to the 1st century Church, eg, IJn.5:13,etc. - heartfully and intellectually knowing at that time they were in the "elect." We after the 1st century, comport with the Gospel's "elect" as Mr. Chemnitz stated in his out dated Commentary (we are in the Kingdom "outwardly" after the 1st century. From the antithesis of any Lutheran Scholar of today, ie, me.
Dcotrine of election from the Book of Concord, ie, XI 1-92 validly summarizes. Misses what you and the moderns have to view as fallacious, ie, Mr. Chemnitz' Commentary along with others prior to about 1910, ie, some in High German, what I've been promulgating for decades where 99.99% of all moderns have to reject.
Thank you again for asking, yet must reject, and I understand why
Humble pie Jack
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GratiaCorpusChristi
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Trying to understand: So you're saying that before 1910-1930, Lutherans believed that only the first generation of Christians could have certainty of their election, but after 1910-1930, Lutherans now believe that all Christians can have certainty of their election?
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shturt678
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From Mr. Martin Chemnitz to Mr. Matthias Loy to others in the ELCA camp to 1930 at the latest believed Mr. Chemnitz' interpretation till I came on the scene warning all the Seminaries about 3 decades ago to about 5 years ago then gave them over.
Humble pie Jack,
Hopefully they are in error, and we'll meet in heaven upon passing, ie, seriously!
Google up Mr. Chemnitz' Commentary, ie, decades ago couldn't do it, ie, now just a click of the button, ie, he uses "visible" and "invisible" Church, and it's been taught for a looooonnnng time, ie, the works are outdated.
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shturt678
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So... You're saying that one has to be a Lutheran to be saved?
Lutherans foremost, and others for sure have to google up all the ways, documented under googled up gov't. census like I did decades ago, then re-evaluate what are alllll the ways God produces faith, eg, water baptismal rebirth, spiritual baptismal rebirh, and etc, and etc. all under "statements of faith" narrowing down to just a few that one can work with.
Then after one gets through confusion and depression, be willing to make a paradigm shift which will happen to about 1 out of a 1,000 from my experience.
Becoming a modern Lutheran will pretty much seal one's fate due to them being so close to the Truth regarding Jn.3:3, 5 compared to the Reformed camp, eg, Mr. S. Kistemaker's Commentary, yet misses the mark compared to pre-1930 Lutherans which are not around anymore. The Lutheran Minister that ordained me decades ago was 82 where his wife even had to help him ordaining me pre-1930, after I completed required academics.
Sorry, talking to much,
Humble pie Jack
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- Feb 2, 2012
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Didn't Trent teach that you had to be a Roman Catholic to be saved?
Sux when some other denomination says that, doesn't it?
Not Roman, but maybe Catholic. However, it was more to do with the Church which Christ himself as established being the only pathway to heaven. But, I'm not too certain as I haven't attended the Council of Trent myself.
Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, and the Church of the East claiming to be the Church isn't new, but coming from a Protestant is quite surprising.
This totally doesn't answer my question...
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I've seen a couple. They pop up like prairie dogs every so often
How do you bait them?
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Ignatius21
Can somebody please pass the incense?
jamantc said:
The poll is more about the understanding of salvation as event/process, than about issues of free will or predestination. In that sense I'd say Augustinian is much more represented in the Catholic and maybe orthodox options, than Calvinistic. Just my unsolicited opinion.
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