Muslims run to Christ

TG123

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sunrise0

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Salaam Alaikum.
wa alaykum


Firstly, the Bible does not teach that God is an angel, or that one of the members of the Trinity is an angel.
what would you say If I post Biblicat text which proves the Holy Ghost is an angel?
I will post it seperately


Secondly, the Trinity teaching is very clearly stated in the Gospel of Matthew.
if you have any proof that his bible is a revelation from God please post it
more importantly, why is it that many bibles are written by normal people and there is none written by Jesus himself?

Matthew 28:16-20
16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. 17 And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[b] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

how many were his disciples?

12 as in Mat 19:28

Judas committed suicide as in Mat 27:5 which leaves 11


then comes 1Cor 15: which makes them 13 even after the death of Judas

Luke 24 :13 makes them 14 if we remember Judas


again they are 11 in Mark 16: 14


Mat 10:5-6 says that Jesus orderd them not to go to others than the children of Israel. in fact every non-Israeli is described as a stray dog according to Jesus in Mat 15:26

and you believe he is god !!!?
 
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These are not God's words. The author of this book made several historical and scientific mistakes, as has been pointed out in several threads already. God does not make mistakes.

I really respect you personaly, but it upsets me when you write accusations without any proofs. you know why? because I can not imagine what you will say to God when He asks you about accusing Him of lying when He said many times :
39:41. Verily, We have sent down to you (O Muhammad ) the Book (this Qur'an) for mankind in truth. So whosoever accepts the guidance, it is only for his ownself, and whosoever goes astray, he goes astray only for his (own) loss. And you (O Muhammad ) are not a Wakil (trustee or disposer of affairs, or keeper) over them.

do you know that although we do not consider the Holy Book as revalation from God , we can not reject all of it.
moreover any muslim including Prophet Muhammad must believe in everything prior to Prophe Muhammad's mission:

2:136. Say (O Muslims), "We believe in Allah and that which has been sent down to us and that which has been sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob), and to Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)], and that which has been given to Musa (Moses) and 'Iesa (Jesus), and that which has been given to the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him we have submitted (in Islam)."

Therefore believing in ALL of God's Angles, His Books, and His Messengers is a must, disbelieving in any of them makes a person unbeliever, his fate is Hell fire.
As for the Books, the Holy Quran mentions some of them:

5: 46. And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) , confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2).


whatever you think is a mistake in the Holy Quran has one explanation only: it is a scientific mistake and nothing else

76:14. Should not He Who has created know? And He is the Most Kind and Courteous (to His slaves) All-Aware (of everything).

any true believer of God has no choice of picking what suits his desires and reject what does not
 
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Salaam Alaikum, Sunrise. Thanks for sharing these links. Islam is indeed growing fast.

How many Muslims are there today, would you around 1.6 billion?

World’s Muslim population more widespread than you might think | Pew Research Center

thanks. personally I care more for the kind of Muslims than their number

12:103. And most of mankind will not believe even if you desire it eagerly.

18:29. And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah). And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc.) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. Terrible the drink, and an evil Murtafaqa (dwelling, resting place, etc.)!
 
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TG123

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wa alaykum
Wa antaa aydan.


what would you say If I post Biblicat text which proves the Holy Ghost is an angel?
I will post it seperately
The Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit is an angel. Feel free however to post your arguments.

if you have any proof that his bible is a revelation from God please post it
more importantly, why is it that many bibles are written by normal people and there is none written by Jesus himself?
I believe God inspired the books in the Bible. They describe God's journey with humanity and what He expects of us.

There is, and never was, a Bible written by Jesus. Does Islam teach that Jesus wrote a book?


If you do not believe the Bible is the word of God, why do you quote it to make points about what you believe Jesus taught?

how many were his disciples?

12 as in Mat 19:28

Judas committed suicide as in Mat 27:5 which leaves 11
Matthias replaced Judas in Acts 1:26

Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas

12 Then they returned to Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is near Jerusalem, a Sabbath day's journey away. 13 And when they had entered, they went up to the upper room, where they were staying, Peter and John and James and Andrew, Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot and Judas the son of James. 14 All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.[a]
15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said, 16 “Brothers, the Scripture had to be fulfilled, which the Holy Spirit spoke beforehand by the mouth of David concerning Judas, who became a guide to those who arrested Jesus. 17 For he was numbered among us and was allotted his share in this ministry.” 18 (Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness, and falling headlong[b] he burst open in the middle and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it became known to all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, so that the field was called in their own language Akeldama, that is, Field of Blood.) 20 “For it is written in the Book of Psalms,
“‘May his camp become desolate,
and let there be no one to dwell in it’;


and
“‘Let another take his office.’

21 So one of the men who have accompanied us during all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 22 beginning from the baptism of John until the day when he was taken up from us—one of these men must become with us a witness to his resurrection.” 23 And they put forward two, Joseph called Barsabbas, who was also called Justus, and Matthias. 24 And they prayed and said, “You, Lord, who know the hearts of all, show which one of these two you have chosen 25 to take the place in this ministry and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 And they cast lots for them, and the lot fell on Matthias, and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Acts 1:12-26 - Matthias Chosen to Replace Judas - Then - Bible Gateway

So we see that after Matthias was chosen, there were 12 again.

then comes 1Cor 15: which makes them 13 even after the death of Judas
I would recommend reading this commentary:

Verse 5
That he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve - This refers to the journey to Emmaus, Luke 24:13, Luke 24:34; and to what is related Mark 16:14.
Then of the twelve - Instead of δωδεκα , twelve, ενδεκα , eleven, is the reading of D*EFG, Syriac in the margin, some of the Slavonic, Armenian, Vulgate, Itala, and several of the fathers; and this reading is supported by Mark 16:14. Perhaps the term twelve is used here merely to point out the society of the apostles, who, though at this time they were only eleven, were still called the twelve, because this was their original number, and a number which was afterward filled up. See John 20:24.


Verse 6
Above five hundred brethren at once - This was probably in Galilee, where our Lord had many disciples. See Matthew 28:16. What a remarkable testimony is this to the truth of our Lord‘s resurrection! Five hundred persons saw him at one time; the greater part of whom were alive when the apostle wrote, and he might have been confronted by many if he had dared to assert a falsity.


Verse 7
After that, he was seen of James - But where, and on what occasion, we are not told; nor indeed do we know which James is intended; James the son of Zebedee, or James the son of Alpheus. But one thing is sufficiently evident, from what is here said, that this James, of whom the apostle speaks, was still alive; for the apostle‘s manner of speaking justifies this conclusion.
Then of all the apostles - Including, not only the eleven, but, as some suppose, the seventy-two disciples

1[bless and do not curse]Corinthians 15:1 - Adam Clarke Commentary - Commentaries - StudyLight.org

Luke 24 :13 makes them 14 if we remember Judas

Luke 24:13

13 That very day two of them were going to a village named Emmaus, about seven miles[a] from Jerusalem,

How does this say there were 14?
again they are 11 in Mark 16: 14
Yes, there were 11 of the original disciples left after Judas' suicide.
Mat 10:5-6 says that Jesus orderd them not to go to others than the children of Israel.
And in Matthew 28, He told them to go to all the nations. Jesus had the disciples start in Israel, but after He went to Heaven, He told them to go to all the nations.
in fact every non-Israeli is described as a stray dog according to Jesus in Mat 15:26
Jesus called the Canaanite woman a dog- and then healed her sick daughter and praised her for her faith. He did not call all non-Israelites dogs. Jesus also had some harsh words for Jews, calling the Pharisees "vipers" (Matthew 23:33) and comparing the Jews to immature children (Luke 7:32).

and you believe he is god !!!?
Yes.
 
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TG123

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thanks. personally I care more for the kind of Muslims than their number

12:103. And most of mankind will not believe even if you desire it eagerly.

18:29. And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah). And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc.) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. Terrible the drink, and an evil Murtafaqa (dwelling, resting place, etc.)!
Thanks for sharing, yet there are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world, regardless of what kind of Muslims they are, correct?
 
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smaneck

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Whenever I see material in brackets this way I become very suspicious because personal interpretations are being inserted into the holy text. For instance "from His torment to His Mercy Islamic Monotheism" not only does not make any sense it is not in the Qur'an.

and I would like to remind you of God's words:

51:50. So flee to Allah (from His Torment to His Mercy Islamic Monotheism), verily, I (Muhammad ) am a plain warner to you from Him.

51. And set not up (or worship) any other ilahan (god) along with Allah [Glorified be He (Alone), Exalted above all that they associate as partners with Him]. Verily, I (Muhammad ) am a plain warner to you from Him.

52. Likewise, no Messenger came to those before them, but they said: "A sorcerer or a madman!"

53. Have they (the people of the past) transmitted this saying to these (Quraish pagans)? Nay, they are themselves a people transgressing beyond bounds (in disbelief)!

54. So turn away (O Muhammad ) from them (Quraish pagans) you are not to be blamed (as you have conveyed Allah's Message).

55. And remind (by preaching the Qur'an, O Muhammad ) for verily, the reminding profits the believers.

56. And I (Allah) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).

57. I seek not any provision from them (i.e. provision for themselves or for My creatures) nor do I ask that they should feed Me (i.e. feed themselves or My creatures).

58. Verily, Allah is the All-Provider, Owner of Power, the Most Strong.

59. And verily, for those who do wrong, there is a portion of torment like to the evil portion of torment (which came for) their likes (of old), so let them not ask Me to hasten on!

60. Then, woe to those who disbelieve (in Allah and His Oneness Islamic Monotheism) from (that) their Day which they have been promised (for their punishment).
 
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smaneck

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The Bible does not say that the Holy Spirit is an angel. Feel free however to post your arguments.

I think the confusion here, is that in Islam the archangel Gabriel (Jabriel) represents the Holy Spirit. In the Baha'i Faith, the Huri or Heavenly Maiden represents the Holy Spirit.
 
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smaneck

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18:29. And say: "The truth is from your Lord." Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.),

Here is the problem with your insertions If your Zalimum is derived from the word Zulm, the meaning is not polytheists but oppressors.
 
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Masihi

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These are not God's words. The author of this book made several historical and scientific mistakes, as has been pointed out in several threads already. God does not make mistakes.

sunrise does not take into account that momed supposedly received info from an intermediary, who for all we know, could have been anyone BUT Gabriel.

Biblicaly, the prophets received visions or dreams or communication directly from Gd... no intermediary
 
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Masihi

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Christ healed the lame,
Christ cured the blind,
Christ raised people from the dead,
Christ multiplied food miraculously feeding 5000 people
Christ did not kill, behead enemies, nor try to conquer a city

Christ did miracles and He commanded us to live in a way different from how muslims are instructed in the quran.... momed did not do any miracles.

I will trust in the one who did miracles.
 
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smaneck

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These are not God's words. The author of this book made several historical and scientific mistakes, as has been pointed out in several threads already. God does not make mistakes.

If you are going to judge scripture on its historical and scientific accuracy then you will have to reject the Bible as well.
Prophets are neither scientists nor historians.
 
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smaneck

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Christ healed the lame,
Christ cured the blind,
Christ raised people from the dead,
Christ multiplied food miraculously feeding 5000 people
Christ did not kill, behead enemies, nor try to conquer a city

Christ did miracles and He commanded us to live in a way different from how muslims are instructed in the quran.... momed did not do any miracles.

I will trust in the one who did miracles.

The major miracle associated with Muhammad is the one we can still access today, namely the Qur'an itself. The miracles you associate with Jesus we have no real evidence of. As for beheading enemies, perhaps you forget Jesus' own words:

"But those enemies of mine who did not want me to be king over them—bring them here and kill them in front of me.’” Luke 19
 
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smaneck

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sunrise does not take into account that momed supposedly received info from an intermediary, who for all we know, could have been anyone BUT Gabriel.

Biblicaly, the prophets received visions or dreams or communication directly from Gd... no intermediary

Really?

Genesis 22:15-18: "Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, and said: 'By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son-- blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies. In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice'" (NJKV).


"So the angel who spoke with me said to me, "Proclaim, saying, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts: I am zealous for Jerusalem and for Zion with great zeal. I am exceedingly angry with the nations at ease; For I was a little angry, and they helped--but with evil intent.
Therefore thus says the Lord: I am returning to Jerusalem with mercy; My house shall be built in it,' says the Lord of hosts, 'And a surveyor's line shall be stretched out over Jerusalem.'"
"Again proclaim, saying, 'Thus says the Lord of hosts: My cities shall again spread out through prosperity; The Lord will again comfort Zion, And will again choose Jerusalem.'""
Zechariah 1:14-17

"20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my plea before the Lord my God for the holy hill of my God, 21 while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the first, came to me in swift flight at the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He made me understand, speaking with me and saying, “O Daniel, I have now come out to give you insight and understanding. 23 At the beginning of your pleas for mercy a word went out, and I have come to tell it to you, for you are greatly loved. "
Daniel 9

Shall I go on?
 
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simplegifts

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god is a god of wrath and hate. muslim or christian, all the same god.

Maybe with Islam is allah hate. Except in Islam Mohammad is supposed to be your example a confessed sinner who attacked caravans, killed people had multiple wives - one underage.

Muslims have no assurance that they will reach paradise except:
009.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
009.112 Those that turn (to Allah) in repentance; that serve Him, and praise Him; that wander in devotion to the cause of Allah,: that bow down and prostrate themselves in prayer; that enjoin good and forbid evil; and observe the limit set by Allah;- (These do rejoice). So proclaim the glad tidings to the Believers.
009.113 It is not fitting, for the Prophet and those who believe, that they should pray for forgiveness for Pagans, even though they be of kin, after it is clear to them that they are companions of the Fire.

God of the Bible gave Christians example in Jesus - loving and sinless who gave his life as sacrifice for you. All one has to do is accept the gift.

Jesus tells us:
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
 
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I was watching a video from Al-Jazeera about African Muslims apostate and embrace Christianity. The numbers are enormous, if it was not a visual program, I would have felt very sad, but the report included picture of the areas where missionaries are very active and succeeding. Those Muslims come from a very poor ignorant background, they are ready to embrace any faith as long as it offers them a better life.

Strangely enough Christian missionaries concentrate on poor Muslims only and ignore the pagans who has the same miserable life if not worse.

In North Africa where Muslims are in better conditions, they are educated and know Islam pretty good, but they like to immigrate to Europe for better life, some Christian missionaries offer them visas if they embrace Christianity and they do

In Jordan Christian missionaries are taking advantage of the miserable life Syrian refugees have so they offer them help accompanied with a copy of the Bible. I saw this on TV supported by refugees and the bibles they got from the missionaries. This is called the carrot and the stick method
While no one must be forced to embrace Islam and if it happened, he is not considered a Muslim
 
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Whenever I see material in brackets this way I become very suspicious because personal interpretations are being inserted into the holy text. For instance "from His torment to His Mercy Islamic Monotheism" not only does not make any sense it is not in the Qur'an.

they are personal , they explain what the words before them mean:

eg: flee means "from His torment to His Mercy Islamic Monotheism"
 
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smaneck

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Those Muslims come from a very poor ignorant background, they are ready to embrace any faith as long as it offers them a better life.

So why don't all those oil rich Muslim countries do something to create a better life for them?

Strangely enough Christian missionaries concentrate on poor Muslims only and ignore the pagans who has the same miserable life if not worse.

Actually most of the Christians in Africa are from pagan background.

In North Africa where Muslims are in better conditions, they are educated and know Islam pretty good, but they like to immigrate to Europe for better life, some Christian missionaries offer them visas if they embrace Christianity and they do

Missionaries don't have visas to offer.

In Jordan Christian missionaries are taking advantage of the miserable life Syrian refugees have so they offer them help accompanied with a copy of the Bible.

Again, why aren't Muslims offering them sufficient help so they don't have to turn to missionaries?
 
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smaneck

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Except in Islam Mohammad is supposed to be your example a confessed sinner who attacked caravans, killed people had multiple wives - one underage.

So did the Bible Patriarchs. As for a wife being 'underage' what constitutes 'underage' and who makes that determination?

Muslims have no assurance that they will reach paradise

Not all religion is about fire insurance.
 
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