- Jun 18, 2006
- 3,851,081
- 51,503
- Country
- United States
- Faith
- Baptist
- Marital Status
- Married
- Politics
- US-Republican
Sounds to me like you are too.It really sounds to me like picking and choosing. But each to his own I guess!
Upvote
0
Sounds to me like you are too.It really sounds to me like picking and choosing. But each to his own I guess!
It is well known that the best way to get someone to be an Atheist is to have them read ALL of the bible,
Christians only read or are taught the parts of the bible that make them all warm and fuzzy inside,
if they read it ALL they would see what a blood thirsty book it really is and not believe a word of it.
Most Christians have never read the bible they just believe what they have been told because of gullibility.
I have no misconceptions because I am not bothered, I only know what I have heard ex Christians say about reading the bible all the way through.I think you have some misconceptions.
Putting words into my mouth AV? Really now; when did I say anything about sacrificing sheep? It makes no difference to me. Anyone professing to take the Bible literally should abide to ALL the laws of the Bible. All I am saying is you cannot pick and choose. If you on the other hand take the Bible as a spiritual guide then you are not obliged to adhere to such laws.
All I am saying is put your money where your mouth is.
By the way I sold land to an American foundation. They built a school that adheres strictly to evangelical, Baptist, doctrine and they even believe that only the various protestant faiths are Christian. Guess what? This Easter they forced the primary school children to witness a lamb sacrifice to God. So My good man, it seems that some of your brethren do indeed sacrifice animals to God!
It makes no difference to me. Anyone professing to take the Bible literally should abide to ALL the laws of the Bible. All I am saying is you cannot pick and choose. If you on the other hand take the Bible as a spiritual guide then you are not obliged to adhere to such laws.
All I am saying is put your money where your mouth is.
Sadly Oncedeceived that's only your take on Christianity others however have a different take,If they truly did this they are rejecting Christ and that He died for their sins. They are rejecting Christianity at its most basic of doctrine. If this is true they are not adhering to evangelical, Baptist doctrine and are actually denying Christ's death and resurrection.
Perhaps reading it yourself would enlighten you instead of making blank accusations against those that have read and studied it.
No it's just you changing your mind because you want to.I don't know about you, but before I had aid of the Holy Spirit the Bible just seemed like a dead boring book. It took God's revelation to open it up and create the living word. I can read a passage twenty times and then suddenly God opens it for me and I am amazed that I had not understood it until then.
Sadly Oncedeceived that's only your take on Christianity others however have a different take,
the strange thing is you are all reading the same book so how can that happen? could God be a bad writer?
or are people only reading it as they want to read it and taking only what they want to take?
No it's just you changing your mind because you want to.
Don't tell me tell them.. 30.000 flavours at the last count and all of them reading from the same book,Ginger, the whole doctrine of Christianity is Christ. That HE died for our sins and lives again. IF you take Christ out there is no Christianity.
Yes, people can be lead astray and are. That is what the Bible is for. To remain true to the gospels. IF someone teaches other than that Christ died for our sins they teach falsely. Period.
Because you so want it all to be true, why? because you don't want to die when you die,I want to change my mind??? Why would I want to change my mind?
Don't tell me tell them.. 30.000 flavours at the last count and all of them reading from the same book,
you tell me what's happening? can you smell fish because [like you] they all think they have it right.
I'm not sure what more would be required, but alright.
That's still quite a bit more than half a million. How much time do you think is required for a lifeform that is very generalized and simple, bristling with as yet unformed potential, to develop into more refined forms?
How do we determine the truth and which are best?We develop the behaviors and interactions, then we discover truths about the best ones.
So if they have this level of awareness of self preservation and little or no awareness of how cooperation will aid in that survival, how does the survival of the species or group arise from self preservation?Yes, on some level I imagine most lifeforms are aware of what they need to survive.
Ok. We have determined that things survive that lack intelligence, we see things surviving such as neanderthals without thinking about anything more than self preservation. So where do we find cooperation being valued enough to evolve morality? We don't find neanderthals or even early humans thinking about the group as a self preservation tool, so if we find our ancestors sacrificing self for the group, how do we explain that?That does not appear to be the case, no. That was my point - intellect is a handy trait for survival, but its not a vital one. At least not for some living things.
But if there were miraculous violations of the natural laws they would be considered natural anyway. Anything in nature would be considered nature. No matter what you would see, whether it be like we see with rules and laws or whether there were violations of those laws you would see it as the way it is. If you think about it, why are there rules and laws that the universe adheres to if the universe was a result of unplanned and entirely unguided processes? How do laws and rules create themselves?It's not about what I want or would rather see - what I do see does not point to the supernatural. If I could see miraculous violations of the natural laws we observe, that would at least be evidence that the supernatural exists.
That can go both ways, correct? If we saw life existed in violation to universal law we would see naturalists explaining it as a natural violation of the universal law.It could still have laws and rules to learn - my point is that we do not observe violations of these laws and rules. Life exists in accordance with them, not in violation of them. If life existed in violation of all universal law, I imagine that many people would be holding that up as proof positive that we are specially created and that we exist by the will of a supernatural force that supersedes natural law.
However, you do not know whether that is even true. You do not know that the universe could have expanded without supernatural aid. You do not know that the universe would not collapse if the undetectable force that keeps it from collapsing was gone. You don't know what that force is but it is required for our universes existence. You don't know what supernatural aid is required for the continuous function of existence of the universe or life itself.It would be a powerful testament to the existence of the supernatural, and almost certainly evidence that the supernatural was interested in the existence of life. A stronger testament than a universe where the supernatural is not evidently required for the continuous function and existence of life.
Why would it be magic?Mundane only in the sense that it is not supernatural. I think things can be mind-blowingly wonderful without being magic.
Fine Tuning Parameters for the UniverseI haven't the foggiest idea. I'm not sure what specific parameters you are referring to - some of the stuff I read about physics and gravity is over my head. I couldn't begin to tell you why they are as they are, or what ramifications them being different would have on life. Only that their current state does not lead me to conclude that 'only God could have done it.'
How would you know? There already is the scenario that the universe requires great precision for life, laws that the universe must adhere to and exact requirements for life, yet you claim that these are all just how it all happened naturally. You see that there are forces that keep the universe together today that are not even detectable on their own, but can only be known to exist due to the way things behave in regard to them. Yet you claim that there is no need for anything supernatural. You can claim that we don't know now but we might later, but we know much when it comes to gravity but we still don't have a grasp on what it is, how it exists. We know it exists because of the effects of it, but we don't even know what it is.I think the scenarios I mention above would do the job better.
Which is sensible. However to claim supernatural is not required when you are not aware of how much there is to explain naturally that defies natural explanations is basing your conclusions on your worldview rather than the evidence out there. You might not know, but you can make an educated determination based on what you have available to you. The fine tuning is an example of this. There are articles out there that do not require a PhD in physics that give a good easy to understand run down of the parameters that are required to allow for life and the universe to exist. There is a consensus of Physicists that claim the parameters are so precise that they appear designed. Granted appearance of design does not prove design. It does however, support it.I do, actually. God could still really be responsible, though I do not see any reason to come to that conclusion. There may be many questions about existence to which I am forced to answer, truthfully, 'I don't know.' I don't leap directly to 'therefore it must be God,' however. I'm fine with 'I don't know' until I get further information.
We can indeed, but what of the person who made the sacrifice? That needs to be known to make that sacrifice.Sure we can. We look at someone making the sacrifice, we evaluate their reasons, we decide whether it was noble or not.
Reason is not left at the door for faith. Interpretations may lead some to do so. However, when one knows that God exists and is who He claims to be, it is not a matter of dismissing evidence but evaluating it through a different lens.Any evidence or reason. If I hold a position based on faith that is incorrect, and put faith above reason and evidence, then I've left myself with no way to correct my position. If I cared at all about whether or not my beliefs were true, then that would be a sorry state of affairs.
Do you think that people go to hell because they do not believe in God or because they will not accept God's rules?But you don't agree.
If God exists and has created the universe as He claims, do you think that He deserves credit for it? Does He deserve appreciation for the very breath we take each moment? Does He deserve to be viewed as a Creator, if He in fact created us? IF HE deserves these does He not deserve to live with those who wish to accept and love Him for it or with those who refuse to accept and show appreciation to Him? Now is it true that there are those who deserve judgement? Someone that kills someone else without due cause, do they deserve judgement and punishment? Are there those who steal from others, do they deserve judgement and punishment? IF yes, we do see that there is a moral code that we adhere to that says to do these things causes them to be judged and punishment to be made if they are found guilty. Is this moral or immoral? We would claim this is a moral judgement and punishment is deserved. If we are all morally guilty in the eyes of God because He is perfect and requires those around Him to be moral, do we deserve punishment? If so, would we wish to have mercy? If we want mercy and God devised a way to show mercy if we only allow Him His status of Creator and God. A simple way to avoid punishment and to live forever without punishment. Is that a fair exchange?What's so perfect about Him that, by comparrison, all humans deserve eternal torment?
Which comes down to a very fine point. Perhaps you refuse to worship God. Perhaps you have reason to believe He exists but you will not worship Him because you will not worship period? I don't know that to be the case but is that possible?As I said, I would have many questions I'd want answered before taking any further steps. The fact of His existence, while it would certainly be incredible, would not alone compel worship from me. There are many things that exist which I do not worship.
Oncedeceived you are so in love with fooling yourself about a God the very very last thing you want to do is stop,
if you stopped you think you would fall apart, you might but only for a while then you would be free to be yourself.
Because you so want it all to be true, why? because you don't want to die when you die,
you want to believe that you are going to have another life, that's why.
Oncedeceived you are so in love with fooling yourself about a God the very very last thing you want to do is stop,
if you stopped you think you would fall apart, you might but only for a while then you would be free to be yourself.
It doesn't, but unlike you I care about other people.This is simply crazy. I love to fool myself? Why would someone love to fool themselves? It just doesn't make sense. Why does it matter to you anyway?