Tongues, NOT in the bible. (2)

sunlover1 said:

No man can understand????

Oh my

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No man within earshot. think about how many in your church speak or understand a rare tongue.
Are the gifts given for our own enjoyment or for the edification of the Church and the preaching of the gospel?

Rev Randy said:

No man within earshot. think about how many in your church speak or understand a rare tongue.
Are the gifts given for our own enjoyment or for the edification of the Church and the preaching of the gospel?

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It doesn't say that!lol
It says no man understands.

TasManOfGod said:

Enough to get the general idea. Have you ever sought to speak in tongues yourself?

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Does the bible say I ought to?

Rev Randy said:

No man within earshot. think about how many in your church speak or understand a rare tongue.

Are the gifts given for our own enjoyment or for the edification of the Church and the preaching of the gospel?

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The realist said:

It doesn't say that!lol
It says no man understands.

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It says "no one hears".

We've covered this before. Did you forget?

The realist said:

It doesn't say that!lol
It says no man understands.

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It says unknown. But then we have interpreters so not unknown to all. Just those who do not know.

The realist said:

It doesn't say that!lol
It says no man understands.

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1 Corinthians 14:2 ο γαρ λαλων γλωσση ουκ ανθρωποις λαλει αλλα τω θεω ουδεις γαρ ακουει πνευματι δε λαλει μυστηρια

The text in bold red says "no one for is hearing" which, in slightly better English, is "for no one is hearing" and probably ought to be translated as "for no one listens".

1 Corinthians 14:2 NAB For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to human beings but to God, for no one listens; he utters mysteries in spirit.

The emphasis is on the recipient not understanding what he is hearing, hence is not listening because he does not know what language is being spoken. That it is a language is implied by the use of λαλων γλωσση which is "speaks [a] language" implying that a language other than Greek is spoken by the person speaking in "a tongue" (since Paul wrote in Greek to Greek speaking Christians in Corinth the language that the hearers would know is Greek).

The speaker also "utters mysteries" (λαλει μυστηρια) which implies that there is intelligent and intelligible content in what is said. Typically Paul uses mystery (μυστηρια) to signify those things that God reveals that human beings would not know if God had not revealed them. In this passage the speaker may be revealing new things that he receives from God as he speaks or he may be revealing things that have previously been revealed by God to himself or to others.

It would appear that Paul does not believe that the language spoken by the speaker is impossible to understand only that his hearers do not, in fact, understand it. This, it seems, is why later (in verse 11) Paul refers to the one who speaks in a [unknown] language is a foreigner to those to whom he speaks.

1 Corinthians 14:11 NAB but if I do not know the meaning of a language, I shall be a foreigner to one who speaks it, and one who speaks it a foreigner to me.


I hope that is helpful.

God bless.

MoreCoffee said:

Does the bible say I ought to?

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Well Jesus and Paul both made it plain that we ought to. That should be good enough recommendation. Besides what would you say if asked by the Lord why you didn't?

TasManOfGod said:

Well Jesus and Paul both made it plain that we ought to. That should be good enough recommendation. Besides what would you say if asked by the Lord why you didn't?

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Where is that in the bible?

MoreCoffee said:

Q: But then why make it a gift to pray with?
A: It does not seem to be given as a gift for the purpose of prayer, does it? It's given to profit all the people in the church, isn't it? (1 Cor 12:7)

Q: Why not just leave it as an ability to converse with man in foreign languages and just tell him to be quiet if no one is present who understands the tongue?
A: Acts 2:4-13 answers the question "why the gift is given?" very clearly. Paul also adds the quote from Isaiah 28:11,12 in verse 21. So, the scriptures tell us why the gift was given. "Why not tell the chap speaking in the foreign language to be quiet?" you ask. The answer is that Paul says he ought to be silent unless somebody can translate for him. That means that he is told to be quiet, right?

Q: Why command him to continue to pray in this foreign language quietly when he can just pray in his native tongue quietly?
A: Where is a command to pray given?

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Answer1.
Tongues is only given to profit the church when it's interpreted by a supernatural gift.
But its also given to edify the person whose talking to God. The person who has this gift can use it to pray with his spirit.
Talking to God=prayer.

Answer2.
Acts2:4 doesn't say why it was given.
Isaiah 28:11, 12 doesn't say that's the only reason why it was given
Your statement above kind of answered this question already for me; tongues when it is interpreted was also meant to profit the church.
So isaiah 28 couldn't be the only purpose for tongues.

Answer3.
"Wheres a command to pray given?" Um its in vs 28. When a person speaks to God he's praying, is he not?

I truly don't understand why this misconception of speaking in tongues is still up for such a debate. It's not in the Bible. Many languages is what happened, all understood.

I've spoken to a woman who used to speak in tongues and she admitted it's really just her and her feelings, not divine. She is making that obnoxious noise on purpose. It's a joke.

Can we just move on? The gift of tongues is not needed any longer because we have multi lingual bibles. There is no need. And if there is a need, God will provide. But it won't be gibberish friends.

MoreCoffee said:

Where is that in the bible?

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Jesus:Mark 16:15-17 (KJV)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Paul:1 Corinthians 14:18 (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

MoreCoffee said:

1 Corinthians 14:2 ο γαρ λαλων γλωσση ουκ ανθρωποις λαλει αλλα τω θεω ουδεις γαρ ακουει πνευματι δε λαλει μυστηρια

The text in bold red says "no one for is hearing" which, in slightly better English, is "for no one is hearing" and probably ought to be translated as "for no one listens".

1 Corinthians 14:2 NAB For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to human beings but to God, for no one listens; he utters mysteries in spirit.

The emphasis is on the recipient not understanding what he is hearing, hence is not listening because he does not know what language is being spoken. That it is a language is implied by the use of λαλων γλωσση which is "speaks [a] language" implying that a language other than Greek is spoken by the person speaking in "a tongue" (since Paul wrote in Greek to Greek speaking Christians in Corinth the language that the hearers would know is Greek).

The speaker also "utters mysteries" (λαλει μυστηρια) which implies that there is intelligent and intelligible content in what is said. Typically Paul uses mystery (μυστηρια) to signify those things that God reveals that human beings would not know if God had not revealed them. In this passage the speaker may be revealing new things that he receives from God as he speaks or he may be revealing things that have previously been revealed by God to himself or to others.

It would appear that Paul does not believe that the language spoken by the speaker is impossible to understand only that his hearers do not, in fact, understand it. This, it seems, is why later (in verse 11) Paul refers to the one who speaks in a [unknown] language is a foreigner to those to whom he speaks.

1 Corinthians 14:11 NAB but if I do not know the meaning of a language, I shall be a foreigner to one who speaks it, and one who speaks it a foreigner to me.


I hope that is helpful.

God bless.

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Acts 9:7 and 22:9
Shows how dangerous it is when you interpret scripture by greek words only and not by the surounding text.
One vs say the men with Paul "akouo" heard a voice
While another vs say they didn't "akouo" or hear a voice
So which one is it? There must be an contradiction right? We no better then that.
The srrounding text shows us that they did hear a sound but they didn't hear the meaning of the sound or what the sound said to Paul.

The major word in this vs is not really mysteries at all for the sake of understanding.
Its obvious that Some can understand mysteries, we know this. But this vs says no man understands Mysteries. That's spiritual men and carnal men.
BUT the major word for the sake of understanding is SPIRIT.
THUS,SPEAKING mysteries in the SPIRIT is why NO MAN UNDERSTANDS.
Speaking mysteries in the native tongue some can understand.
SPIRIT IS THE COMMON word in this chapter not mysteries.
Notice how a couple of verses later he brings up praying with the spirit again?
The entire chapter he says spirit 5 times and mysteries only once.
Notice these mysteries was not speaking to man BUT TO GOD.

So the king James version of understanding fits this vs correctly

ChrisHolland619 said:

I truly don't understand why this misconception of speaking in tongues is still up for such a debate. It's not in the Bible. Many languages is what happened, all understood.

I've spoken to a woman who used to speak in tongues and she admitted it's really just her and her feelings, not divine. She is making that obnoxious noise on purpose. It's a joke.

Can we just move on? The gift of tongues is not needed any longer because we have multi lingual bibles. There is no need. And if there is a need, God will provide. But it won't be gibberish friends.

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From this^ can we assume you think this:

HOLY SPIRIT ENCOUNTERS - YouTube

is not what Paul was speaking about?


and the band played on....

TasManOfGod said:

Jesus:Mark 16:15-17 (KJV)
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

Paul:1 Corinthians 14:18 (KJV)
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

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Doesn't look like a command to me. By the way, when did you last pick up snakes or drink any deadly thing?

God bless.

ChrisHolland619 said:

I truly don't understand why this misconception of speaking in tongues is still up for such a debate. It's not in the Bible. Many languages is what happened, all understood.

I've spoken to a woman who used to speak in tongues and she admitted it's really just her and her feelings, not divine. She is making that obnoxious noise on purpose. It's a joke.

Can we just move on? The gift of tongues is not needed any longer because we have multi lingual bibles. There is no need. And if there is a need, God will provide. But it won't be gibberish friends.

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Sister sonlover1 did post a quote from an Anglican priest with instructions on how to speak in tongues, it is a supernatural gift that one learns by saying alleluia backwards, evidently.

Lord have mercy.

The realist said:

Acts 9:7 and 22:9
Shows how dangerous it is when you interpret scripture by Greek words only and not by the surrounding text.

One vs say the men with Paul "akouo" heard a voice While another vs say they didn't "akouo" or hear a voice So which one is it? There must be an contradiction right? We no better then that. The surrounding text shows us that they did hear a sound but they didn't hear the meaning of the sound or what the sound said to Paul.

The major word in this vs is not really mysteries at all for the sake of understanding. Its obvious that Some can understand mysteries, we know this. But this vs says no man understands Mysteries. That's spiritual men and carnal men. BUT the major word for the sake of understanding is SPIRIT. THUS, SPEAKING mysteries in the SPIRIT is why NO MAN UNDERSTANDS. Speaking mysteries in the native tongue some can understand. SPIRIT IS THE COMMON word in this chapter not mysteries. Notice how a couple of verses later he brings up praying with the spirit again? The entire chapter he says spirit 5 times and mysteries only once. Notice these mysteries was not speaking to man BUT TO GOD.

So the king James version of understanding fits this vs correctly

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Statement: Shows how dangerous it is when you interpret scripture by Greek words only and not by the surrounding text.
Reply: Around the time that the Cathars were at work, and the Lollards too, the bishops warned about the dangers of incorrect translations for the souls of those who used them. Your warning echoes theirs. Maybe they were onto something? But where else will one go? The bishops recommended that the faithful go to the church with their questions and assured them they would receive answers. Where do you say I ought to go if I cannot go to scripture?

Statement: Acts 9:7 and 22:9 ... One vs says the men with Paul "akouo" heard a voice While another vs says they didn't "akouo" or hear a voice. So which one is it? There must be an contradiction right? We know better than that. The surrounding text shows us that they did hear a sound but they didn't hear the meaning of the sound or what the sound said to Paul.
Reply: No "voice from heaven", or from Earth, says that this has anything whatever to do with speaking in foreign languages ("tongues" if you prefer KJV-English). So, what's this got to do with the chaps hearing but not listening to what the guy speaking in foreign languages is saying? It is not as if they didn't hear him they just didn't listen because he was speaking foreign stuff.

Statement: The major word in this vs is not really mysteries at all for the sake of understanding. It's obvious that Some can understand mysteries, we know this. But this vs says no man understands Mysteries.
Reply: That is not right. The verse does not say no man understands Mysteries. What it says is "For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to human beings but to God, for no one listens; he utters mysteries in spirit." The premise of your statement is inaccurate so the reasoning that follows is based on an inaccurate premise and arrives at an inaccurate conclusion.

God bless.

Rev Randy said:

From this^ can we assume you think this:

HOLY SPIRIT ENCOUNTERS - YouTube

is not what Paul was speaking about?


and the band played on....

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That's one of those disturbing shaking people and "tongues" as a "breakthrough" video clips. They are becoming increasingly common.

Lord have mercy!

MoreCoffee said:

That's one of those disturbing shaking people and "tongues" as a "breakthrough" video clips. They are becoming increasingly common.

Lord have mercy!

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My "and the band played on.." was the part of the video that really caught my attention. Complete with mood music. The keyboardist did not miss a beat.

Rev Randy said:

My "and the band played on.." was the part of the video that really caught my attention. Complete with mood music. The keyboardist did not miss a beat.

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Yes, that is often the way it is. Even in the Pentecostal meeting place nearest to my home the music plays on while folk fall over.

God bless.

This post is for information. It may be of interest to The realist, TasManOfGod, and Rev Randy may enjoy it too

Charismatic Counterfeits: Do the Modern Gifts Meet the Biblical Standard? (Nathan Busenitz) - YouTube