What have you understood about the charcater of The Ten Commandments??

Elder 111 said:

Paul wrote the book but Moses did not write the 10. Read the account again.

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Are you throwing out the writings of Paul as not from God?

Elder 111 said:

We are not saved by keeping the commandments period. But by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit we can live as God would have us.
No where does the bible say that Jesus kept the law so that we would not have to keep it. He died for our sins. Note the implication hear, that is, that we can live as we like. We know that is not true.
Having no idol or not taking God' name in vain can not be an act of putting faith in the law for salvation.

Where does the bible say there must be the law or the Savior? Why can't we see the fixation on Jesus and obey His Ten Commandments also. Does faith in Jesus and His saving grace means that I must not look at the Commandment that says, thou should have no other god? Does that make sense?

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Primarily because the Ten Commandments aren't the property of Jesus. Jesus didn't give them to Israel. No I won't let you sneak in the back door either.

Elder 111 said:

This is not the truth. How many sinned and were not zapped? David and adultery. There are hundreds more but no need to mention. You believe that God is letting us off the hook now?

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I can't say you're not a Christian, but I'm allowed to think. If you're a Christian why do you fight Christianity?

Elder 111 said:

Hold it!
You have a bleeding wound and place something on it to make it worse and call it a band aid? According to popular opinion, it's like a vampire not a band aid, the Law that is.
You seriously believe that the law was forced on people so as not to do evil? You are making me afraid. Am i taking to an alien?
So God forced the law on people? Please!

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What exactly were the choices and the consequences of not performing as required by God?

Phoebe Ann said:

John 14

21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Is obedience to God the same as trying to keep and be judged by the law?

Do Christians love Christ?

How did Charles Spurgeon explain the relationship between being saved by Christ's sacrifice and keeping the commandments?

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light.

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If you're not requiring the keeping of the law, what exactly are you saying?

GratiaCorpusChristi said:

"France was a monarchy, and duly consisted as a monarchy, from the reign of the reign of the Capetians until the French Revolution."

That is no longer the case. It was certainly the case then, but it is no longer the case.

"Hong Kong was part of the British Empire and subject to the crown."

That is also no longer the case, because the lease expired.

So what's the problem?

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I'm thinking of something moreso along the lines of a teacher who tries to remove the role Abraham Lincoln played in the Civil War because they consider it irrelevant now.

Elder 111 said:

By the way, you are still suggesting two means of salvation here.
Try this. Salvation is the gift of God through faith. By faith and dependence upon God we all will keep His ten commandments not to be saved but because we love Him. With Jesus in you, you have no compulsion to steal etc.
Romans 7:
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Romans 8:
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

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I find it amazing how you'll state the truth and deny it at the same time. I do see a softening of your ideas.

from scratch said:

I can't say you're not a Christian, but I'm allowed to think. If you're a Christian why do you fight Christianity?

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I can say it.

God be gracious to me a sinner.

Elder 111 said:

Notice you blame Israel for the rejection but still states that the law failed. Which is it?
It was not the law but the people. Heb 8:
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

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Romans 8 tells us grace does what the law could never accomplish.

fhansen said:

Yes, I did. Scripture asserts both that faith saves us-and that we must remain in-i.e. that we can fall from-that faith and the grace that produces and surrounds it.

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Please forgive my ignorance and try again because I don't understand how what you posted answers my question.

Stryder06 said:

What "greater perfection"? Have you any idea why the law as placed in the ark of the covenant? Do you realize what that represented?



So the age old question: Does that mean 1-3 and 5-10 are invalid now as well?

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Did Jeremiah and Jesus lie? Not to mention others.

TargetPractice said:

Does anyone here critically THINK about the issue, or do they just spout what they've been taught in Sunday School?

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Scratch returns the comment for application to the sender.

Elder 111 said:

We are not saved by keeping the commandments period. But by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit we can live as God would have us.
No where does the bible say that Jesus kept the law so that we would not have to keep it. He died for our sins. Note the implication hear, that is, that we can live as we like. We know that is not true.
Having no idol or not taking God' name in vain can not be an act of putting faith in the law for salvation.

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Actually there is scripture that says if you are in the spirit (in Jesus) you are not under the Law. This means that Jesus did something that takes away the requirements of the Law from Christians. When you propose one must keep the Law or else this implies one loses something and if one can lose something that absolutely demands compliance to the Law the only thing that in the end truly matters is salvation. If one LOSES salvation by not keeping the Law then one is demanding the Law FOR maintaining it and that means one is KEEPING the Law to continue to be saved which means one isn't truly saved if they don't keep it by the logic you and others present.

Where does the bible say there must be the law or the Savior? Why can't we see the fixation on Jesus and obey His Ten Commandments also. Does faith in Jesus and His saving grace means that I must not look at the Commandment that says, thou should have no other god? Does that make sense?

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It says it in Romans it has been posted that those who are in the spirit are not under the Law and that those who choose to be carnal (not in the spirit, in the flesh) will be judged by the Law. This fixation on keeping the Law puts one in the flesh. If one truly takes the time to carefully read Paul's writing this is evident, you have to ignore sections of it to not see it. It is either the Law or the spirit which is your savior and Jesus is the spirit part.
I am not going to be convinced that if one does something via the spirit that is equivalent to part of the Law that one is required to keep the Law because of it. If one goes to a foreign land and doesn't murder someone there and there is a law that you cannot eat bananas at lunchtime you would have me coming home to my country and not allowed to eat bananas at lunchtime by this logic. Coincidence isn't obedience always. The two Laws Christians are given cover a lot of the same things as the Law does but doesn't obligate it to consider it as our commandments we already have valid ones that IMO are more complete than the 10.

Stryder06 said:

I can promise you that I don't spout anything that I've been taught in Sunday School

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Correct there Stryder. So do you spout what you've been taught in Sabbath school?

Elder 111 said:

Paul wrote the book but Moses did not write the 10. Read the account again.

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same thing, moses wrote the 10, in what is commonly known as the book of the law or cov. Paul wrote alot of the NT.

ex 24:7 Then he took the Book of the Covenant and read it in the hearing of the people. And they said, “All that the Lord has spoken we will do, and we will be obedient.”

Sophrosyne said:

I think some are thinking.... and some are just regurgitating things they were indoctrinated into by their "group".

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and without examination.

Elder 111 said:

So the other parts of the text should be ignored?

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kept in perspective, as a movie unfolds, things chage, as the historical narrative unfolded, things chaged, Paul said several times, things were hidden until the gospel era, and the prophets looked for the gospel grace, that they did not have, 1 peter 1. Heb 1:1, says in various ways God spoke, in eph 3;5, the men of old did not know what we know, all showing expanding revelation, and now we are in the age of grace, not law, that is history.

So don't ignore, just see it as the past, the law was UNTIL Christ, Gal 3:19.

from scratch said:

Did Jeremiah and Jesus lie? Not to mention others.

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That doesn't answer my question. If you can't answer my questions, don't expect me to answer yours.

Elder 111 said:

This sounds like what you are saying.
As long as I believe in Jesus I will be saved? If I try the keep the Ten Commandments I will fail but if I trust in Jesus I don't have to worry about it. If I take up a couple thousand dollars that is not mine or have an idol, Jesus has taken care of that already.

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Pretty good assessment if you ask me. Now the question is have you failed and sinned?

Elder 111 said:

This is not the truth. How many sinned and were not zapped? David and adultery. There are hundreds more but no need to mention. You believe that God is letting us off the hook now?

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Heb 2:2 For since the message declared by angels proved to be reliable, and every transgression or disobedience received a just retribution,



10:28 Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses.

yes, we are off the hook, because Jesus is off the tree, after law redemption, you may want to study gal 3, the curse, the book od the law, and the redemption, 3:10-13.