Saudi Arabia in the Bible: Destroyed!

zeke37

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So Yeshua, Mt 23:35 means:
that the religious leaders of Jerusalem in Christ's time, were evil
and of a wicked generation

we know that ALL saints were not literally killed in Jerusalem.

however, the interest to me is v38-39

those verses mock dispensationalism, and thus by default, pre trib as well.
 
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Interplanner

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But surely you saw vs29-34, and that the drift of what he is saying that is that this generation would be charged with all that. He is saying they approved of and 'participated' in those past killings. so even Abel's murder is imputed to them.

This, btw, is the same thought as in the vineyard parable of ch 21. He is still expounding on that. 21:45 is revealing.

re 'blessed is he who comes...' I don't grasp how it mocks D'ism; they often say it is proof of the future worship system in Jerusalem. (Not the desolate part, which sets up the 1st century meaning of the AofD).
 
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ebedmelech

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Ezekiel 30:3-5 Wail for the Day is near, he Day of the Lord comes, a Day of reckoning for the nations. A sword will come upon Egypt.....all the Arabs and peoples in the Mid East will fall on that Day.
Zephaniah 2:4-15 At noon day, Gaza will be destroyed....land of the Philistines, I shall lay you in ruins, bereft of inhabitants....Ammon, [Jordan] Moab, Kereth, [Arabia] you Cushites, [Africans] also will be slain by the sword of the Lord....
This is all to happen very soon, all of the holy Land will be cleared and cleansed by the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath, a judgement by fire, clearly told to us in Isaiah 30:26, as a coronal mass ejection sunstrike, that will fulfil all the graphic prophesies about that Day.
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Nope...it happened. How is it missed historically? So many miss that Ezekiel is in the Diaspora when Israe/Samaira were removed from the land.

The prophecy happened as Nebuchadnezzar steamrolled the entire region simply read Jeremiah 43:8-13 and 46.

These are the errors made when people fail to put themselves in the time of the prophecy as they read. Nebucadnezzar fulfilled the prophecy!
 
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keras

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Ezekiel 30:10 does say how the Lord uses Nebuchadrezzar to conquer Egypt and that did happen. But Ebedmelech, you are in error, when you place verses 1-9 in the same event. A careful reading of them proves they are NOT at that time and must be future. The Bab. attack on Egypt was NOT the Day of the Lord -
Ezekiel 30:8 When I [the Lord] sets Egypt on fire and all her allies are shattered...
This is yet to come, the judgement/punishment by fire, a worldwide devastation, Zeph 3:8 but it is an event that will virtually depopulate all the Middle East. Isaiah 33:8-12 and many other prophesies. All these prophesies say it is the Lord Himself who does this, not Babylon, not Assyria, and it will be a terrible cosmic event. 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 66:15-16
 
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ebedmelech

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Ezekiel 30:10 does say how the Lord uses Nebuchadrezzar to conquer Egypt and that did happen. But Ebedmelech, you are in error, when you place verses 1-9 in the same event. A careful reading of them proves they are NOT at that time and must be future. The Bab. attack on Egypt was NOT the Day of the Lord -
Ezekiel 30:8 When I [the Lord] sets Egypt on fire and all her allies are shattered...
This is yet to come, the judgement/punishment by fire, a worldwide devastation, Zeph 3:8 but it is an event that will virtually depopulate all the Middle East. Isaiah 33:8-12 and many other prophesies. All these prophesies say it is the Lord Himself who does this, not Babylon, not Assyria, and it will be a terrible cosmic event. 2 Peter 3:10, Isaiah 66:15-16
This you're saying is error. I ask you again to look at the time frame...what you're saying has been fulfilled.

You must understand any "day of the Lord" is a day of judgement...in this case for Egypt. If you understand prophecy you now why!

IT WAS BECAUSE EGYPT GAVE THE REMNANT OF JUDAH REFUGE..after Nebuchadnezzar captured them and destroyed the temple.

There have been many "day of the Lord" judgments in scripture...and the last one is on the last day. This is the error...not realize there have been many "day of the Lord" judgments.

Historically...this is the battle of Carchemesh! Look that up.
 
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zeke37

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But surely you saw vs29-34, and that the drift of what he is saying that is that this generation would be charged with all that. He is saying they approved of and 'participated' in those past killings. so even Abel's murder is imputed to them.
i'll agree that it seems on the surface that THAT generation is being pointed out.
this chapter is one that makes me "consider" other views as having merit
but not to the extent that some have become...imo.

I certainly don't see the fulfillment of much of Mat24 at 70ad. sorry.

This, btw, is the same thought as in the vineyard parable of ch 21. He is still expounding on that. 21:45 is revealing.

I don't grasp how it mocks D'ism; they often say it is proof of the future worship system in Jerusalem. (Not the desolate part, which sets up the 1st century meaning of the AofD).
huh?

it shows that there is no reserve system set up for the Jews with sacrificial systems etc

ONLY through Christ!
 
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zeke37

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This you're saying is error. I ask you again to look at the time frame...what you're saying has been fulfilled.

You must understand any "day of the Lord" is a gay of judgement...in this case for Egypt. If you understand prophecy you now why!

IT WAS BECAUSE EGYPT GAVE THE REMNANT OF JUDAH REFUGE..after Nebuchadnezzar captured them and destroyed the temple.

There have been many last days in scripture...and the last one is on the last day. This is the error...not realize there have been many last days.

Historically...this is the battle of Carchemesh! Look that up.
you'll have to do more than just say it, to have any affect on me.
 
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keras

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Yes, EM, there have been many DoL's and there will be another very soon - His Day of vengeance and wrath. The one to come some time after that, at His Return in glory, is called the great Day of the Sovereign Lord. Rev. 16:14
All the many prophesies pertaining to the Day of wrath are clear - it is instigated by the Lord and will be a cosmic event. You deny Scripture to say otherwise. Isaiah 30:25-28
Realise that this world is now 'as in the days of Noah', and what happened then? The Lord wiped out that civilization, but fortunately for us, there will be more survivors this time and those who love the Lord in truth and righteousness will gather and live in all of the holy Land. That is the great promise to us Christians, our great hope, don't deny it!
 
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ebedmelech

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Yes, EM, there have been many DoL's and there will be another very soon - His Day of vengeance and wrath. The one to come some time after that, at His Return in glory, is called the great Day of the Sovereign Lord. Rev. 16:14
No Keras. You will find out as what you think is going to happen...doesn't happen. What you see in Rev 18 should ring in your mind the plagues of Egypt. You must understand the symbolism of such things.
All the many prophesies pertaining to the Day of wrath are clear - it is instigated by the Lord and will be a cosmic event. You deny Scripture to say otherwise. Isaiah 30:25-28
Indeed...but the cosmic is not what you think. Think about the angel, as he told Daniel he was being withstood by the "Prince of Persia"...that's Daniel 10:18-21. Read that and see how the "cosmic" happens. BTW...that angel went back to fight the Prince of Persia...where was all that happening???

These prophecies simply have been fulfilled!
Realise that this world is now 'as in the days of Noah', and what happened then? The Lord wiped out that civilization, but fortunately for us, there will be more survivors this time and those who love the Lord in truth and righteousness will gather and live in all of the holy Land. That is the great promise to us Christians, our great hope, don't deny it!
No. We are to remember the days of Noah in our day...just as the disciples did when Jesus told them it would be like the days of Noah. it was a warning to them...not us. However it is also written as an example to us to remain steadfast in the Lord despite whatever is going on in this world.

Now you think about what happened in Noah's day...who were the ones taken? They were those who didn't heed the warning...and they were taken by the flood. So those taken were lost...as Noah and his family were safe in the ark.

What you're saying is soon...WON'T happen. But instead of go around about it...let's watch and wait. :thumbsup:
 
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keras

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Ebed, your replies are as bad as Bible2, you treat us like children lacking understanding. But it is you who fits 1 Timothy 1:7, because you have believed lies and denied the literal truth of Bible prophesy. Isaiah 29:9-12 is the condition of most today who just take the 'nice' bits of prophecy and ignore or allegorize the rest.
Yes, we will watch and wait, and when this terrible Day of the Lord's wrath happens, you and all who 'are in the dark' about the Lord's plans will be shocked and without any idea of whats next. The Lord will ask you: Why could you not see and understand all the information I gave you through My prophets?
 
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ebedmelech

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Ebed, your replies are as bad as Bible2, you treat us like children lacking understanding. But it is you who fits 1 Timothy 1:7, because you have believed lies and denied the literal truth of Bible prophesy. Isaiah 29:9-12 is the condition of most today who just take the 'nice' bits of prophecy and ignore or allegorize the rest.
Yes, we will watch and wait, and when this terrible Day of the Lord's wrath happens, you and all who 'are in the dark' about the Lord's plans will be shocked and without any idea of whats next. The Lord will ask you: Why could you not see and understand all the information I gave you through My prophets?
If you think I'm replying down to you in some manner, I can't help that...that is you reading printed responses how you*think* I mean them to be said.

Now...what I suggest is if you think I depart from truth...let's just start with Isaiah 29:9-12:
9 Be delayed and wait, Blind yourselves and be blind; They become drunk, but not with wine, They stagger, but not with strong drink.
10 For the Lord has poured over you a spirit of deep sleep, He has shut your eyes, the prophets; And He has covered your heads, the seers.
11 The entire vision will be to you like the words of a sealed book, which when they give it to the one who is literate, saying, “Please read this,” he will say, “I cannot, for it is sealed.”
12 Then the book will be given to the one who is illiterate, saying, “Please read this.” And he will say, “I cannot read.”

What this passage is saying is that Isaiah's prophecy here...is a mystery to Judah. Israel was taken by Sennacharib earlier.

Who is Ariel but Jerusalem? This prophecy partly occurred under the seige of Nebuchadnezzar...that is 29:1-16! We know that from the first verse! This is why Judah didn't listen to Isaiah, Jeremiah and other prophets He sent to them. God is telling you they are blind to what was coming...and it shows! Read how Zedekiah calls Jeremiah about things about to happen to Judah in Jeremiah 38:14-28.

Nebuchadnezzar is sweeping through the entire region at this time...and the portion you have selected (just as happens in many of God's prophets), simply gives a portion to be fulfilled at Christ coming. Why do you think it is *LIKE* the book is sealed??? Isaiah says *like* for a reason...it's not sealed...it's LIKE it is sealed because they had no clue they had fallen so far from God! You don't remember the hard times Jeremiah got from Judah's kings...including Zedekiah. They had false prophets blinding them!!!

Now...you want to take a prophecy and push it future??? Jesus himself speaks of this in Matthew 15:8 as He speaks to the Pharisees...He is looking back to this prophecy and chastising the Pharisees because they know what he is speaking of...Judah's blindness when Nebuchadnezzar pummeled Jerusalem and destroyed the temple. Zedekiah told Jeremiah not to tell the people what was going to happen!

Isaiah 29:17-24 is the only portion I see as future..when Israel turns to the Lord. Romans 11!!!
 
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Interplanner

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re our great hope. It is not to go be transfered to the holy land. I'm not sure if there is anything called holy that is of earth any more; Christ alone. The believers mentioned in Heb 11 were not thinking of the city here on earth either, but one that was coming. Our great hope is that we will be made incorruptible because of the efficacy of Christ in his Gospel.
 
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keras

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Thanks for keeping this discussion on a decent level. I hope my comments do not come across as judgemental or unpleasant.
Ebed, I use several translations to obtain a true meaning of scripture. With Isaiah 29:8-12, first it refers to the 'horde of nations attacking the holy Land', then 'If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused...
So this is about more than just the Babylon attack on Judah.
Talking about prophecy - those who believe untruths will become stuck in their error. Applies to everyone.
Note in Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, in an instant punishment will come from the Lord, thunder, earthquake, storm tempest and devouring fire....
This fits with Psalm 83 and Micah 4:11-12. Nothing to do with Nebuchadnezzar.

IP, Yes, Jesus is our Saviour and Redeemer, but in Acts 26:6-7 Paul tells that the hope of all Israel is that God will fulfil His promise to the Patriarchs, that their descendants will occupy all of the holy Land. A second Exodus is unmistakably described in Isaiah 11:11-16
 
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ebedmelech

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Thanks for keeping this discussion on a decent level. I hope my comments do not come across as judgemental or unpleasant.
Ebed, I use several translations to obtain a true meaning of scripture. With Isaiah 29:8-12, first it refers to the 'horde of nations attacking the holy Land', then 'If you confuse yourself, you will stay confused...
So this is about more that just the Babylon attack on Judah. Talking about prophecy - those who believe untruths will become stuck in their error. Applies to everyone.
Note in Isaiah 29:5-6 Suddenly, in an instant punishment will come from the Lord, thunder earthquake, storm tempest and devouring fire.
This fits with Psalm 83 and Micah 4:11-12. Nothing to do with Nebuchadnezzar.
Well...first I would tell you I also use several translations. Secondly I will say you really can't just stand on Isaiah only because Jeremiah is also a prophet that comes after Isaiah and he repeats some of the same prophecies Isaiah gives.

Jeremiah is alive when Judah/Jerusalem are finally destroyed. Now have you compared Isaiah and Jeremiahs prophecies?
 
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keras

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Ebedm, Yes I have read Jeremiah, he confirms how all the 12 tribes will return to their heritage. Jer. 33:6 When they return, their proof of ownership will be the title deed that Jeremiah sealed into a jar 'for a long time to come'. Jer. 32:14
In fact, all the prophets, with the exception of Jonah, incl the NT ones, confirm that God will honour His promises to the Patriarchs - their descendants will at last inherit al of that area promised to Abraham. That this will happen before the visible Return of Jesus, is clear by all that must take place first.
Ezekiel also confirms the great gathering - Ezekiel 20:34-38 and settling into the Land - Ezekiel 36, their spiritual regeneration and rejoining - Ezekiel 37, how a confederation of nations attack them as they live undisturbed - Ezekiel 38-39, and how they will build the new Temple and the Shekinah Glory will enter thru the East gate - Ezekiel 43:4
And of course plenty more from the rest. I have written over 500 articles on Bible prophecy, pointing out the truth about the end times, I write on all the prophets.
You probably have not seen that the Lord will punish Judah 3 times - Ezekiel 21:14 otherwise you wouldn't be so adamant that these things are fulfilled. Try to address what I quote, what about Isaiah 11:11-12 ? Don't tell me it was just the Jews - read the context - all fulfilled? I don't think so. What about Isaiah 13 ? Especially verse 6 & 13
 
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yeshuasavedme

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re our great hope. It is not to go be transfered to the holy land. I'm not sure if there is anything called holy that is of earth any more; Christ alone. The believers mentioned in Heb 11 were not thinking of the city here on earth either, but one that was coming. Our great hope is that we will be made incorruptible because of the efficacy of Christ in his Gospel.

You forget God's plan is to always be "planting the heavens, forever" by the human being sons of God born on earth from married human being sons of God on earth who are not translated to the glory bodies until they live their "day", as Adam would have been if he had not fallen.
So you think God just ends the earth when Jesus returns, or ends the earth after the thousand years, but the earth will go on forever and ever, and human beings will be born on it forever and forever who will live their lives as Adam would have if he had not fallen, and they be translated to glory.

But earth beneath will always have Israel as the Capital of earth, and Jerusalem will be the City of God on earth. YAH REU forms Jeru, in English, and Shalom, make the city named after YHWH.
Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

1Ch 16:15 Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

Psa 105:8 He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.

Isa 51:16 And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered thee in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and lay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people.
 
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ebedmelech

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Ebedm, Yes I have read Jeremiah, he confirms how all the 12 tribes will return to their heritage. Jer. 33:6 When they return, their proof of ownership will be the title deed that Jeremiah sealed into a jar 'for a long time to come'. Jer. 32:14
In fact, all the prophets, with the exception of Jonah, incl the NT ones, confirm that God will honour His promises to the Patriarchs - their descendants will at last inherit al of that area promised to Abraham. That this will happen before the visible Return of Jesus, is clear by all that must take place first.
Ezekiel also confirms the great gathering - Ezekiel 20:34-38 and settling into the Land - Ezekiel 36, their spiritual regeneration and rejoining - Ezekiel 37, how a confederation of nations attack them as they live undisturbed - Ezekiel 38-39, and how they will build the new Temple and the Shekinah Glory will enter thru the East gate - Ezekiel 43:4
And of course plenty more from the rest. I have written over 500 articles on Bible prophecy, pointing out the truth about the end times, I write on all the prophets.
You probably have not seen that the Lord will punish Judah 3 times - Ezekiel 21:14 otherwise you wouldn't be so adamant that these things are fulfilled. Try to address what I quote, what about Isaiah 11:11-12 ? Don't tell me it was just the Jews - read the context - all fulfilled? I don't think so. What about Isaiah 13 ? Especially verse 6 & 13
What I would say is you impose the future of these prophesies...and I lay it out for you:

*Isaiah 10...God calls Assyria "The rod of His anger"...and he uses Assyria to judge Israel/Samaria and the region. Then He speaks of Israel's return to the land in verse 20. Isaiah 11 then prophesies Christ coming in Isaiah 11. We Know Sennacharib came against Jerusalem, which is in Isaiah 36 as well s 2 Chronicles 32...but God didn't allow Jerusalem's destruction at that time because of Hezekiah...but Hezekiah made a huge mistake and showed all the treasure to the king of Babylon in Isaiah 39. Read that...because this again supports my next point.

*Isaiah 29 prophesies Jerusalem's destruction which comes at the hands of Nebucadnezzar in Jeremiah 39...just as Isaiah said!

*You say it's not Nebuchadnezzar...but God calls ALL NATIONS to submit to Nebuchadnezzar in Jeremiah 27.

*After Nebuchadnezzar captures Jerusalem the remnant of Judah remains and in Jeremiah 42, Jeremiah warns them not to go to Egypt but they go anyway...so Jeremiah prophesies Nebuchadnezzar coming to destroy Egypt in Jeremiah 43:10 and Jeremiah 44...but I'm to listen to you say this is future???

As you read God uses Nebuchadnezzar take the whole region just as He said in Jeremiah 27..so truly God judged the NATIONS as Isaiah 29 says!

Do you not remember in Daniel how powerful Nebuchadnezzar was with God using Babylon to judge? Daniel 2:36-38 tells us how powerful Nebuchadnezzar was:
36 “This was the dream; now we will tell its interpretation before the king.
37 You, O king, are the king of kings, to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the power, the strength and the glory;
38 and wherever the sons of men dwell, or the beasts of the field, or the birds of the sky, He has given them into your hand and has caused you to rule over them all. You are the head of gold
.

God used Nebuchadnezzar to judge the Jerusalem and KNOWN WORLD at that time!! That's what Isaiah 29 is speaking of...and Nebuchadnezzar did this in Jeremiah 39-49.

God then prophesies through Jeremiah...Babylon's downfall...but not while Nebuchanezzar is king...Babylon falls with Belshazzar as king in Daniel 5 as Darius the Mede kills him.

Zechariah 1-6 tells us of the regathering of Israel to rebuild the temple. So I wonder why you would jump past this rebuilding of the 2nd temple..as well as the regathering of Israel here...to jump to the 21st century. WHy ignore the regathering that is recorded in Ezra and Nehemiah???

I don't hold what you're saying is future...and I think I've laid out a good case!
 
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keras

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The simple answer to your case, is that most prophesies have a dual fulfilment, proved by the plain fact of how the earlier event hasn't totally completed what was prophesied.
Actually, by your preterism, you miss out on knowing the amazing plans that God has for His people at this end time.
I don't 'jump past' earlier prophesied events - they occurred, but as Paul says: 1 Cor. 10:11 All these things that happened to the Israelites were symbolic and were recorded for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.
 
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yeshuasavedme

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The words of wisdom are double to that which is, and double again, in many cases.


So Nimrod & Co attempted to ascend to heaven by building a tower, and if you read the history Book of Jasher, you will see that the plan was to take over the City of God on the Mount Of God by climbing up some other way than the only Way back, which is through the Atonement. Adam got cast down from Mount Eden of the stretched out heavens which is where Paradise is and which is where the Tree of Life is; as Jesus said, and as Paul said, Paradise is in the third heaven [because he also knew it had already been written in the ancient writings that Paul read and used]: so again, in Revelation, after the thousand year millenial reign when the devil and his hordes of devils are released to tempt and test the sons of man born in the millennial reign, they assemble a host to ascend upon the breadth of the earth which is the stretched out [on day 2, from earth, between the divided in two waters] expanse of it, called "heaven", so as to try to take over the City of God once more, through rebellious men.

The first time that happened, God sent a fire that destroyed one third of the tower forty years in building, and a mighty sinkhole opened up in the earth and one third sunk into the pit of earth, and the middle third was left remaining and took three days to walk around that middle bottom portion. The next time that happens, God will send a fire upon them and devour them entirely as they ascend [by spaceships??:)]
 
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